The elephant in the room

[UltimateLurker]

............

 

[UltimateLurker]

Ugh, an R34 GTR in sport was 61,000 credits.. It's now over 250k depending on the mileage in the used dealership.. Cheaper? i don't think so.

PD really missed the boat on this one. One of the major points of ANY racing game is that you're able to acquire cars in the game that you can't in real life, or at least a hell of a lot easier. Complete PD fail here.

 

[Samus]

The game also suggests you get gold on every mission and challenge, but that's just not in the cards for the vast majority of humans.

You have to understand the game needs to be designed with a broad stroke. I think they've done a pretty good job allowing hardcore losers like me to grind endlessly, or for casuals to play 1-2hours a day, and the game will last 6 months. That's pretty solid.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a racing game, and no amount of grinding money or collecting cars will supercede the time and effort of learning the track, tuning, and driving to your limits.

Cars will cycle around, used, legend, invites, etc. If certain cars offered a distinct advantage creating a pay to win type scenario, I would agree with you completely, but it's just not the realty in a competitive racing game.

Collecting every car can be your goal, but wanting it "right now" is not reasonable and for people with that mentality THEY can pay to take that path. That's for nothing to do with the rest of us who won't touch micro transactions.

Just my .02

I won't buy MTs either and I also won't spend several years grinding out the same races, so the end result is a lot of the cars in the game I probably will never get to drive, just like in GTS.

What is the point of putting hours into modelling all these cars for your game if the majority of people never get to drive them? It isn't real, there is no exclusivity to these cars, every copy has unlimited copies of all the cars.

Ultimately what this comes down to is how many hours a person thinks is reasonable to get everything out of the game.

PD, as of now, put that down as several hundred hours, maybe 500. I on the other hand think 50-100 is far more reasonable, depending on what you have to do In those hours.

Remember, most people dont even play anywhere near that, I can tell you for certain right now the majority of people playing won't even finish all 39 menu books. So it's not like reducing the play time to 100 hours Is going to mean everyone has everything. Its still a big effort, it's still an air of exclusivity, but 5x less than the one PD currently propose.

 

[Adrenaline]

I won't buy MTs either and I also won't spend several years grinding out the same races, so the end result is a lot of the cars in the game I probably will never get to drive, just like in GTS.

What is the point of putting hours into modelling all these cars for your game if the majority of people never get to drive them? It isn't real, there is no exclusivity to these cars, every copy has unlimited copies of all the cars.

Ultimately what this comes down to is how many hours a person thinks is reasonable to get everything out of the game.

PD, as of now, put that down as several hundred hours, maybe 500. I on the other hand think 50-100 is far more reasonable, depending on what you have to do In those hours.

Remember, most people dont even play anywhere near that, I can tell you for certain right now the majority of people playing won't even finish all 39 menu books. So it's not like reducing the play time to 100 hours Is going to mean everyone has everything. Its still a big effort, it's still an air of exclusivity, but 5x less than the one PD currently propose.

Gran Turismo is a game people continued to play, enmasse, until the next is released. I was still playing GTSport up until 2 weeks ago. It came out in 2017... 5 years! So I think you're being unrealistic with putting this arbitrary timeline on the games lifespan.

Not every game was made to be beaten and completed within a week.

You model 400 cars, because there are 7 billion people in the world with different tastes in cars. For me personally, 95% of my gameplay takes place in GR3 cars. I don't give a damn about these garbage 1960s piles of crap.

I am not a collector, I am a racer. The game caters to both. People who love classics can gobble them up. People who love rally, or drift, or drag... They can go do that. I want nothing to do with it. (Except tranny tuning for drag, that will be a godsend over GTSport)

The game is a catch all. Trying to cast the widest net it possibly can. The people who intend to collect 400+ cars, are just 1 more demographic of people the game can also appeal to.

If people can't even make it through 39 books, then I don't know what to tell you. They were sure as hell never going to collect 400 cars, so I'm lost as to where you're going with that angle.

The point of everything GT7 includes, is to appeal to the widest demographic they can. Very few games keep people around for years, so those who come and go are irrelevant.

If they made it too easy, the elephant in the room would be the people screaming they didn't get enough content to justify the purchase. The internet is never happy because it's where the upset go to vent.

If the biggest complaint about GT7 is that there's too much content to complete it on the 4th day, then I think they did a pretty damn good job.

And that says a lot from me, because if you go read my first post in the "first impression" thread, I left a scathing review.

As I've progressed, things have gotten significantly better and I'm surprisingly becoming impressed. There are still some blatant flaws, but I know updates, fixes, and DLC is coming in the future.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

Wait, wait, the invitations expire? I thought it was just tied to my collector level, really sucks if that's not the case. I was invited to buy the One-77 on day 1, without hitting anything but coins on the roulette wheel, pretty sure I still can, but, that's awful if it's not the case. Brand Central seemed like the one place to get cars that wasn't time-sensitive.

 

[///M3]

Yes, you had to grind in the old games but not to the amount you're going to have to in GT7 to have all the cars, plus enough to upgrade them.

I haven't got all the prices for cars yet but so far it's at over 250 million credits, with the remaining cars I don't know the prices at it could be over 300 million. Then you'll need several more millions to upgrade even just a few of them.

Who said anything about getting everything straight away? Nobody that I've seen, we just want something a bit more reasonable for an average gamer who doesn't have years to throw into one game.

I’m not being funny mate but do you realise how much of a grind it was to the d type or p330 20m with no pay to win just to do the historic cup in in GT4/5 I can’t remember which….

With regards to throwing years in to the game….it’s gonna be quite a while till we see the next one so you might wanna look at the long term mate.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I am also opposed to not being able to sell a car for cash. It's resource management. Yes, I get it, the game costs about the same 25 years later, and they need to earn their keep, but I agree with @SupaGT that it's a bit excessive.

 

[zzz_pt]

I’m not being funny mate but do you realise how much of a grind it was to the d type or p330 20m with no pay to win just to do the historic cup in in GT4/5 I can’t remember which….

With regards to throwing years in to the game….it’s gonna be quite a while till we see the next one so you might wanna look at the long term mate.

In both of those games you could use B-spec Bob to grind for you.

Something you can’t do since GTSport.

No B-Spec. No selling cars. No repeated prize cars. No cumulative daily login bonus for Credits. No seasonal events (yet, hopefully will come).

GT7 has none of that. But it has now cars which you can only buy for a certain period of time, pushing you to buy micro transactions. Something completely stupid and intended to just make things frustrating/a drag or both.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Different indeed. I only played online.

Daily cars being handed to you (that you couldn't sell) was not "collecting" and therefore is not comparable in my eyes.

I finished all missions, licenses, and all 39 menus. By the end you should have over $3m in credits. The only car you're required to buy, that they don't give you, is a truck for the truck race. Idk about any safety car.

Obviously due to skill level, certain cars will require more money as tuning is a necessity to beat harder difficulties, so that factors in as well.

Sorry. Safety car purchase is required for a trophy. Same thing IMO.

 

[Samus]

Gran Turismo is a game people continued to play, enmasse, until the next is released. I was still playing GTSport up until 2 weeks ago. It came out in 2017... 5 years! So I think you're being unrealistic with putting this arbitrary timeline on the games lifespan.

I'm not putting a lifespan on it, I'm well aware that people will play these games for years but you are in the minority. 85% of GTS players were not playing it this year.

Not every game was made to be beaten and completed within a week.

For people only able to play a couple of hours a night, not every night, a 100 hour game is going to last them two months. If someone can and wants to play 8 hours a day for two weeks, good for them.

You model 400 cars, because there are 7 billion people in the world with different tastes in cars. For me personally, 95% of my gameplay takes place in GR3 cars. I don't give a damn about these garbage 1960s piles of crap.

I am not a collector, I am a racer. The game caters to both. People who love classics can gobble them up. People who love rally, or drift, or drag... They can go do that. I want nothing to do with it. (Except tranny tuning for drag, that will be a godsend over GTSport)

The game is a catch all. Trying to cast the widest net it possibly can. The people who intend to collect 400+ cars, are just 1 more demographic of people the game can also appeal to.

But not everyone can do what they want when you put certain cars behind huge timesink barriers. Any classic car nuts are going to have to spend hundreds of hours to get those cars.

If people can't even make it through 39 books, then I don't know what to tell you. They were sure as hell never going to collect 400 cars, so I'm lost as to where you're going with that angle.

The point is that people keep saying as a defense of the huge grind that some cars and parts of the game should be exclusive, that not everyone should be able to get them easily. Unicorns. So what I'm saying is if the majority of the people won't even put enough time in to finish the menu books then those people certainly aren't going to all get the unicorn cars. Ergo, even if you make the time required 100 hours, or whatever, those cars are still only going to be attained by a small percentage of players, they're still exclusive. Just not ridiculously so, that someone like me, a solidly dedicated player, won't even have them either.

I did almost all single player content in GTS, I drove thousands of km, 50 odd hours. I couldn't afford ONE of the so called unicorn cars. Not one. I had 16m total credits.

I didn't feel that was fair or reasonable.

The point of everything GT7 includes, is to appeal to the widest demographic they can. Very few games keep people around for years, so those who come and go are irrelevant.

If they made it too easy, the elephant in the room would be the people screaming they didn't get enough content to justify the purchase. The internet is never happy because it's where the upset go to vent.

If the biggest complaint about GT7 is that there's too much content to complete it on the 4th day, then I think they did a pretty damn good job.

And that says a lot from me, because if you go read my first post in the "first impression" thread, I left a scathing review.

As I've progressed, things have gotten significantly better and I'm surprisingly becoming impressed. There are still some blatant flaws, but I know updates, fixes, and DLC is coming in the future.

There isn't too much content though, that's the point. You've got people here saying they've already done pretty much everything and have earned a total of about 6 million credits. Now what aemre they going to do? Go online and win paltry amounts of credits or grind the same single player races over and over until they can afford what they want.

Meanwhile the older games were much longer and by the time you reached the end you were rich, you could obtain anything and have fun in a car sandbox. Sure, there was a bit of grinding along the way, but not to massive excess.

I think sometimes people forget they were probably kids when the first games came out, games seemed more daunting and longer back then, I remember personally how daunting doing a 2hr race seemed in GT2. As an adult, that's really nothing. Those games were not as long as people remember.

 

[///M3]

In both of those games you could use B-spec Bob to grind for you.

Something you can’t do since GTSport.

No B-Spec. No selling cars. No repeated prize cars. No cumulative daily login bonus for Credits. No seasonal events (yet, hopefully will come).

GT7 has none of that. But it has now cars which you can only buy for a certain period of time, pushing you to buy micro transactions. Something completely stupid and intended to just make things frustrating/a drag or both.

I used Bob for endurance races.

Everything else it was either Aspec stuff or just racing and doing my fav races over and over again with different cars, strangely it didn’t feel like grinding at the time more “I wonder if the civic tpr is better than the xara vts that’s had an exhaust on it.”

That said autum mini ring was just a fun place to spend time chucking little hot hatches around.

Happy days.

 

[///M3]

Sorry. Safety car purchase is required for a trophy. Same thing IMO.

I won the hell cat safety car in a roulette….sorry

 

[soc123_au]

If the biggest complaint about GT7 is that there's too much content to complete it on the 4th day, then I think they did a pretty damn good job.

Having to replay the entire game up to 10 times to buy a single car is far from a "damn good job"

I understand that a game of this genre is infinitely replayable, but imo it should be possible to complete in 200 hours. Completion doesn't mean that the game is now dead either, if the racing is good, then that in itself is enough reason to keep playing.

The argument that no one is being forced to buy every car is also pretty stupid. Of course you dont have to, but there wouldnt be a car collection tab in the garage just begging to have the silhouettes filled in if it wasn't part of what the devs had in mind.

I'm enjoying the game, I'm at collector level 20 and doing the menu book to get the AMG's. It's obvious at this point that economy is so out of skew it's not funny. I am someone who has the platinum trophy in Sport along with owning every car in the game. Credits in Sport haven't been a motivator for me to play a few hundred dailies ago. I kept playing because I enjoy it. As it stands although I'm enjoying GT7 there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I'll be collecting every car.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I won the hell cat safety car in a roulette….sorry

That popped your trophy since you didn’t buy it?

 

[Samus]

I’m not being funny mate but do you realise how much of a grind it was to the d type or p330 20m with no pay to win just to do the historic cup in in GT4/5 I can’t remember which….

With regards to throwing years in to the game….it’s gonna be quite a while till we see the next one so you might wanna look at the long term mate.

I don't know how many times I have to say that yes, the older games had grinding but none were as bad as GTS or seemingly GT7. This has been analysed in great detail, if you can't find the posts I'll pull them up shortly. All the credit payouts Vs costs were analysed.

I never said the old games were a walk in the park, done in 12 hours. I just said they were far more reasonable in the amount of time they asked of you. We're talking 50 to 100 hours Vs up to 500 hours.

I don't need to look at any long term, I don't play any one game for years. There are plenty of others about. Those of you playing GT7 constantly until GT8 are statistically in the extreme minority. The vast majority of players pick up a game for a few months at the absolute most and move on. That is perfectly reasonable if you ask me, developers shouldn't be expecting people to play for 5 years to attain everything, and I'm sure most don't.

 

[Techlet]

The fact that the invitations to buy $1mil+ cars expire is just a kick in the teeth. Especially when you get an invitation through the Cafe progression only a couple of hours into the game.

 

[NICKname]

Not every game was made to be beaten and completed within a week.

And yet, here we are.

If the biggest complaint about GT7 is that there's too much content to complete it on the 4th day, then I think they did a pretty damn good job.

No, the biggest complaint about GT7 is that the in-game economy is intentionally made terrible to get people to buy microtransactions.

The second biggest complaint is that there's so little content that people can complete it on the fourth day or earlier.

 

[soc123_au]

The fact that the invitations to buy $1mil+ cars expire is just a kick in the teeth. Especially when you get an invitation through the Cafe progression only a couple of hours into the game.

Pretty much this. Anyone defending the micro transactions or the games economy while this is a thing needs to remove Kaz's bat from their mouth.

 

[Magog]

Ugh, an R34 GTR in sport was 61,000 credits.. It's now over 250k depending on the mileage in the used dealership.. Cheaper? i don't think so.

There are no more 20 million dollar cars. All of these are way cheaper now. That's the big difference.

 

[JDMKING13]

The fact that the invitations to buy $1mil+ cars expire is just a kick in the teeth. Especially when you get an invitation through the Cafe progression only a couple of hours into the game.

It’s gives you at least two weeks and pretty cool idea to make Supercars unique to be purchased mines expires March 19… I got invited to Ferrari to buy a LaFerrari, Enzo, and Fxx k I don’t care for the Enzo or the FXX K.. I want the LaFerrari.. I already have gotten enough money to buy it. I’m good 🙂 Say you are a Supercar collector and want to collect certain ones… you have enough time to grind it’s actually a little bit more than two weeks I think also. Yea it’s not the normal buy every car within the first week of the game, but imo I like it. I have a race where I can make 1 million in about an hour and some change.. if I wanted to get those cars I could easy grind but I’m just enjoying the whole GT7 vibe I’ll be playing this game for years to come!

 

[cowboyjon]

Similar discussion on reddit, so I'll just copy my response to here.

The entire games economy is predicated on a system that requires credits for everything, while being stingy with handing out those credits.

Now personnally, I ****ing love the fact that it's stingy and making me earn my cars and credits but the huge problem here is looking forward to daily sport multiplayer races.

Now we can take our own modded cars into a daily and race competitively? Cool! Only, have you ****ing seen the cost of the mods in this game? 40k for a set of race tyres? 15k for an exhaust?

You wanna try a new car online? That'll be however many credits for the car then 100,000k+ credits just to make it competitive, then if you want to try a new car that'll be the same again and again.

So Sony will sell you credits for cash.

This is 100% sony taking the piss and I can't beleive more people aren't highlighting it.

 

[Adrenaline]

I'm not putting a lifespan on it, I'm well aware that people will play these games for years but you are in the minority. 85% of GTS players were not playing it this year.

For people only able to play a couple of hours a night, not every night, a 100 hour game is going to last them two months. If someone can and wants to play 8 hours a day for two weeks, good for them.

But not everyone can do what they want when you put certain cars behind huge timesink barriers. Any classic car nuts are going to have to spend hundreds of hours to get those cars.

The point is that people keep saying as a defense of the huge grind that some cars and parts of the game should be exclusive, that not everyone should be able to get them easily. Unicorns. So what I'm saying is if the majority of the people won't even put enough time in to finish the menu books then those people certainly aren't going to all get the unicorn cars. Ergo, even if you make the time required 100 hours, or whatever, those cars are still only going to be attained by a small percentage of players, they're still exclusive. Just not ridiculously so, that someone like me, a solidly dedicated player, won't even have them either.

I did almost all single player content in GTS, I drove thousands of km, 50 odd hours. I couldn't afford ONE of the so called unicorn cars. Not one. I had 16m total credits.

I didn't feel that was fair or reasonable.

There isn't too much content though, that's the point. You've got people here saying they've already done pretty much everything and have earned a total of about 6 million credits. Now what aemre they going to do? Go online and win paltry amounts of credits or grind the same single player races over and over until they can afford what they want.

Meanwhile the older games were much longer and by the time you reached the end you were rich, you could obtain anything and have fun in a car sandbox. Sure, there was a bit of grinding along the way, but not to massive excess.

I think sometimes people forget they were probably kids when the first games came out, games seemed more daunting and longer back then, I remember personally how daunting doing a 2hr race seemed in GT2. As an adult, that's really nothing. Those games were not as long as people remember.

I'm so confused. Your argument is that it will take too long to collect all the cars... AND your argument is also that there's not enough to do because the game is done too soon...

Which one is it? There's too much to do, or not enough to do, because you can't ride the fence and have it both ways.

Are you mad that there's incentive to race offline to win money and collect the cars for months to come? Or.... You want way more money, so you can run out of things to do even faster?

You're contradicting yourself with each post.

 

[Scaff]

We already have a thread to discuss this, and certainly do not want a new thread created for everyone's personal view on it.

Gran Turismo 7's Microtransaction Pricing Revealed

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet: Gran Turismo 7’s Microtransaction Pricing Revealed The pricings for Gran Turismo 7’s “cash for credits” microtransactions have been revealed, courtesy of the PlayStation Store updates as the game goes live...

www.gtplanet.net

Locked.

Edited to add
Don't say this...

I'll let a moderator tell me if my thread is a problem.

...if you're then going to act like a child with the poo emoji!