The EU Constitution

[Arwin]

Politicians have power over the people. Well publically at least. In reality it's obvious that either financial or religous groupes or persons have the power.

May I ask which country you are from?

 

[Melaneimoon]

May I ask which country you are from?

Sure, but first I'd like to know why though.

 

[Melaneimoon]

A decision (kratein) made by the people (demos) is more decision-made-by-people (democratic) than a decision (kratein) made by an elite (aristos) that supposedly represents the people. An elected government IS democratic too, I agree, but less. This is a simple matter of definition. But in a system of an (supposedly) elected elite, the possibility of decisions being made in favor of others than the public, is higher. Really, regardles of which system we think is better.

 

[skicrush]

Everyone here is getting confused. Most of us operate in REPUBLICS, not democracies. Referendums are democratic votes, while congress or parliament voting on the issues is an example of a republic at work. Melanie, it sounds to me like you don't like the election or campaign (or representation) system wherever you are, not that you don't like democracy. (or republics, as is technically the case)

 

[Arwin]

Sure, but first I'd like to know why though.

Because one democracy definitely isn't the next.

 

[Famine]

May I ask which country you are from?

In Belgium we weren't even asked if we want that constitution or not. It was approved by our politicians who actually admitted they DID NOT EVEN READ IT.

I think he's from Burkina Faso...

 

[Arwin]

I think he's from Burkina Faso...

Thanks for clearing that up.

A yes, Belgium. What a mess that country is. Compared to that, our country is as simple as 1 + 2. Language issues, cordon sanitaire, huge unemployment areas, the country is a mess! One of the few countries where European politicians are in fact generally more trusted than the Belgian ones.

 

[Flame-returns]

Hey dont diss Belguim. Nice place, nice people, nice resteraunts, nice waffels.

Brussels (sp?) is home to a chocolate museum with a very nice fountain spouting fresh Belgian chocolate.

 

[ledhed]

DUVEL ! DUVEL DUVEL ! Three cheers for Belgium !

 

[Arwin]

Hey dont diss Belguim. Nice place, nice people, nice resteraunts, nice waffels.

Brussels (sp?) is home to a chocolate museum with a very nice fountain spouting fresh Belgian chocolate.

It's a beautiful country and I know some very nice people there. But that doesn't change the fact ... just as I hated Pim Fortuyn, or am ashamed for having Jan-Peter Balkenende currently representing our country, or that we voted against the constitution.

 

[Melaneimoon]

Melanie, it sounds to me like you don't like the election or campaign (or representation) system wherever you are, not that you don't like democracy. (or republics, as is technically the case)

Well, it's not "melanie", (i'm a guy, btw). Yes my only point was that direct democracy is MORE democratic than an electorial system, that's all. It was all started when I criticised the failiure of the system, and someone else claimed a direct democratic system wouldn't be better.

Because one democracy definitely isn't the next.

Yeah I'm not just talking about the situation in Belgium. I try to be objective in my statements so I'd rather they are taken objective.

I think he's from Burkina Faso...

hehe, good point there. I knew I mentioned it somewhere before.

A yes, Belgium. What a mess that country is.

Yes, a big mess indeed, to say the least. But as I said, let this not affect your judgement of what I say. There are generalities equal in all the forms of something, and it are those (the essense) I try to approach as much as possible. (sidenote: in science, one looks often to the differences between things, which is most suitable for classification, and ultimately utilisation, but for understanding, one must look at similarities). And the Belgian government is merely a small part of the basis of my opinions.

Hey dont diss Belguim.

Oh yes many benefits here too (for me personally that would be chocolate in particular). But that's not the point of the argument.