- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I'm not all that surprised by this.
The FIFA Bribe Scandal...
- Thread starter Sanji Himura
- 509 comments
- 24,688 views
- 866
- Frozen Wasteland
- GTP_Cosworth
Frankly speaking I don't know if there's a single Middle-Eastern nation that's ready for hosting an event such as the World Cup.
Those that have money (Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, etc.) aren't football nations, and have human rights records that make Russia look like the mecca of democracy.
On the other hand those countries that genuinely love football (Iran, Iraq, Egypt...) will never win the bid because of political reasons and the threat of terrorism.
Really I'm all for growing football all across the world but the Middle-East just isn't ready. Give the bid to Australia.
- 20,978
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Thought that most of those who died were from Nepal?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
You can't say that some issues are better than others, because that means some issues are more acceptable than others - and our issues are not acceptable at all. We have policies of mandatory detention and offshore processing, where asylum seekers are kept in limbo for years while their claims are processed. They are forced to live in a detention facility with substandard conditions, surrounded by citizens and a police force who do not want them there and have staged violent riots over it. Incoming arrivals are forcibly turned back, violating Indonesia's territorial waters and international maritime law. There have been claims of mistreatment by navy personnel, and of asylum seekers being placed on boats before that boat is turned back. The government refuses to comment on any of this, claiming it is an issue of national security. Any organisation that attempts to complain or report on it has their funding slashed. The UN Human Rights Commission has expressed extreme concerns, both about the policies and the way Australia is a party to refugee treaties which it is currently ignoring.
None of this is any more acceptable than the labour situation in Qatar. But to take the 2022 World Cup from Qatar on moral grounds and give it to Australia despite the moral objections is rank hypocrisy.
- 20,978
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
How about Antarctica? Or Switzerland since we are aiming to be neutral.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The point I am trying to make is that if Qatar were to lose the 2022 competition, then it should be because of corruption and/or the impossibility of rescheduling domestic leagues long before moral outrage is considered.
- 866
- Frozen Wasteland
- GTP_Cosworth
Well if you look at it this way, its easy to jump to the conclusion that no country truly deserves to host the World Cup, since every single country has its own internal problems, and by giving them the WC you are thus acknowledging that those problems are "acceptable".
While I agree with that stance to a certain degree, I think you'll agree that its not a practical way of looking at things.
Personally I like to separate sports from politics to a certain degree. If a country is able to make a strong bid for the World Cup, and then prepare the venues and host the event without trampling all over human rights, everything else should take a back seat. Take Russia and the Olympic Games for example; people were all up in arms and calling for boycotts because of their anti-gay policies. But did the Russian government go around prosecuting homosexual fans or athletes? No. Did it affect the Olympic Games at all? No. So what can you blame them for, really?
The problem with Qatar however is that them hosting the World Cup is directly leading to the death and suffering of thousands of people, and that should be more than enough to take the World Cup away from them on the aforementioned moral grounds, without even bringing bribery into the discussion.
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- 20,978
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
That and the likelihood that if a specific team qualifies, they wouldn't hesitate to not give said team's players visas.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It should be mentioned that Australia is also under investigation as part of the corruption probe. Football Federation Australia donated $500,000 to Trinidad and Tobago for stadium upgrades, but the money was stolen by Jack Warner, a FIFA voting member. FIFA want to know if Australia failed to declare the donation because doing so would expose the policy of offering funding for upgrades, which might have been seen as a means of buying votes for the 2022 World Cup.
- 9,055
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Michel Platini says he would support a re-run of the vote if corruption is proven:
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2014/06/05/platini-would-support-qatar-re-vote
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2014/06/05/platini-would-support-qatar-re-vote
- 14,055
- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
To be brutally honest, claiming to have the best civil rights on the Arabian Peninsula is like winning a Grand Prix where the grid is full of Life L190s.
I think Qatar should be stripped of its hosting rights for 2022, and bidding should begin once more.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
But why?
FIFA can only strip Qatar of the World Cup a) if their charter allows for it, and b) under the terms outlined there within. "Human rights abuses" is far too subjective a term, particularly when countries like South Africa and Brazil, with their serious social inequalities have already hosted the tournament.
The only feasible reasons for stripping a host nation of the World Cup are corruption in the bidding process; danger to competitors, officials, spectators and/or the media; and a complete failure by the host nation to provide suitable facilities.
FIFA can only strip Qatar of the World Cup a) if their charter allows for it, and b) under the terms outlined there within. "Human rights abuses" is far too subjective a term, particularly when countries like South Africa and Brazil, with their serious social inequalities have already hosted the tournament.
The only feasible reasons for stripping a host nation of the World Cup are corruption in the bidding process; danger to competitors, officials, spectators and/or the media; and a complete failure by the host nation to provide suitable facilities.
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
Bin Hammam was directly involved with the process, a banned member of FIFA. That should be reason enough. He not only spoiled this bid, but he also could tank Platini's bid for the FIFA's presidency, though if news of Platini's concession of a winter 2022 World Cup in Qatar are true, he does deserve it.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
And if they can prove that, certainly. But it hasn't been proven. All the allegations demonstrate is that Bin Hamnan made the payments. Qatar have denied that he was officially involved, and while they would have a vested interest in lying or covering it up, the burden of proof falls with the accusers.
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
How can I put this:
You are in a group, and said group is trying to elect their next leader. However, an outside influence is trying to buy member X's way into the leadership role so that they, the outside influence, can set the policy for the group, such as the next meeting area.
The leadership vote is cast in favor of Member X near unanimously. However, as the leader, you think that the outside influence actually bought the vote for Member X, and you open an investigation into the matter. You can't trust anyone who voted for Member X, as favors were allegedly exchanged, you most certainly can't take Member X's word for it, as he has a personal interest in the matter, and finally, you can't trust the word of the outside influence as he was kicked out of the group two years ago for trying to buy his own way into the group's leadership.
With that out of the way, how do you go about proving fraud in the above leadership vote?
You are in a group, and said group is trying to elect their next leader. However, an outside influence is trying to buy member X's way into the leadership role so that they, the outside influence, can set the policy for the group, such as the next meeting area.
The leadership vote is cast in favor of Member X near unanimously. However, as the leader, you think that the outside influence actually bought the vote for Member X, and you open an investigation into the matter. You can't trust anyone who voted for Member X, as favors were allegedly exchanged, you most certainly can't take Member X's word for it, as he has a personal interest in the matter, and finally, you can't trust the word of the outside influence as he was kicked out of the group two years ago for trying to buy his own way into the group's leadership.
With that out of the way, how do you go about proving fraud in the above leadership vote?
- 12,513
- Ireland
- The__Luke
I think "danger to competitors" applies here regardless of the bribes. I can see serious dehydration happening in 2022.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The Qataris have factored that into their stadium design.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Sony are lobbying for a full investigation into the corruption claims, amid reports that Michael Garcia's report will largely ignore Bin Hamman's activities as he was a banned member and will instead focus on improving transparency in the bid process.
Meanwhile, more details of Bin Hamman's activities are emerging:
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27751265
Meanwhile, more details of Bin Hamman's activities are emerging:
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/27751265
- 4,221
- Louisville, KY
- ukfan758
Why can't they just keep the World Cup in Europe and South America where there is several stadiums and football has actual history? There is no need to go to Africa and the Middle East where there is no football history and no proper stadiums. It's just billions of dollars down the drain once the cup is done.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
How do you grow the sport without getting exposure to it first? Football is known as "the world game" for a reason. It's popular all over the world.
Besides, large-scale infrastructure projects are a good way to boost the economy without having to resort to specialist eceonomic strategies. Government expenditure increases over the medium term, which reduces unemployment and increases business and consumer confidence.
Besides, large-scale infrastructure projects are a good way to boost the economy without having to resort to specialist eceonomic strategies. Government expenditure increases over the medium term, which reduces unemployment and increases business and consumer confidence.
- 4,221
- Louisville, KY
- ukfan758
Yes they can boost the economy, however what good does it do to build multi million dollar stadiums and have them never used again. The olympic stadiums/complexes in developing countries are a good example of this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/abandoned-olympic-venues_n_3580868.html
In the London, Atlanta, Sydney, Vancouver, etc olympics, many of the facilities are now being used for other things which has boosted the economy and reduced unemployment. When countries like Greece, China, developing Germany (pre WWII era) and the former Yugoslavia, the facilities were abandoned and money is wasted. This also isn't related to football but look at the Korean International Circuit in South Korea, it costed 77 million dollars to build and only one race occured there every year with the exception of one Super GT exhibition race. Now the track has no races whatsoever and now millions of dollars are down the drain. I have a feeling that Quatar is going to spend billions of dollars like Russia did with the olympics and the facilities will most likely not be used again or only rarely. They should keep it in Western Europe, and North and South America where there are stadiums ready and if such things need to be built, they will be most likely be used again and will benefit the economy.
- 29,358
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Apparently the FIFA corruption scandal is "racism" by the British media, according to Sepp Blatter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27762435
There is not a facepalm image, smiley or video in existence rightly equipped to capture this moment properly, so in the meantime here is some music.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27762435
There is not a facepalm image, smiley or video in existence rightly equipped to capture this moment properly, so in the meantime here is some music.
- 19,688
- Alabamamania
...and thus it's awarded to Seattle.
I didn't think it was possible to shoehorn this into the conversation, but huzzah.
- 2,998
- England
- Peasantslayer
Why doesn't Mr Blatter sit down with important people from the British media and give them a 'handshake'? problem solved.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Interesting that he's suddenly able to spot racism from a mile-off, until now it hasn't seemed to be his strong suit.
The whole Qatar thing just seems laden with subterfuge and corruption but I'm no proper soccer expert. I know what a shiftless liar looks like though, and I suspect I see that in SBlatter.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Doesn't the British media have anything better to do?
Actually ... they might not. They did lose the 2018 Cup in the same session, and they have strategically released details of the corruption in the immediate lead-up to a World Cup that has proven controversial to say the least.
The allegations are, of course, serious. But between the notoriety of the British press and the above, you cannot deny that they have something to gain from it.
- 29,358
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
True, although I don't think that they have 'strategically released' anything in the build up to the world cup... while the story has been covered more in recent weeks, it has been in the press here for a long time. Other issues about Qatar's bid (aside from the corruption) have also been covered in the press over the last couple of years.
There may well be parties who stand to gain from bringing the Qatar bid into disrepute, but it also cannot be denied that there is plenty wrong with the bid - Blatter himself said it was a mistake to host the tournament in Qatar in its regular summer spot. The shocking treatment of migrant workers, FIFA corruption, and the possibility of a highly disruptive winter tournament are all very legitimate news stories if you ask me.
There may well be parties who stand to gain from bringing the Qatar bid into disrepute, but it also cannot be denied that there is plenty wrong with the bid - Blatter himself said it was a mistake to host the tournament in Qatar in its regular summer spot. The shocking treatment of migrant workers, FIFA corruption, and the possibility of a highly disruptive winter tournament are all very legitimate news stories if you ask me.
He's Blattering.
