The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[napalmhardcore]

For me, a lot of the problems with GT are the result of Kaz's "my vision" mentality. I'm happy to see his vision but do not want to be restricted by it. This for me is where Gran Turismo falls down.

For example, I can understand that given how much work is required, full cockpits for all cars would be an immense task (I've spoken before about how I think the way quantity vs quality was inelegantly handled to say the least, but anyway). OK, fair enough. But there is no good reason why we should not have a hood (bonnet or whatever term is preferable) camera. I do not use the cockpit camera for Gran Turismo as it makes the experience inconsistent when switching from car to car. My second choice for driving games is the bonnet camera as it essentially makes your monitor/TV the windscreen. I fail to believe he has not heard requests for bonnet cam. I also fail to believe it would be too difficult to implement. It's almost as if he feels there shouldn't be one, therefore there isn't one.

Same with FOV. We know it is possible, but he tucks the option away in multi-screen settings (which in GT5 was patched out!) which makes it feel like a workaround or hack. Why does he seem to want us to drive with what HE considers to be the best FOV choices?

I cannot speak for GT6, but why were the options in GT5 so restrictive in arcade mode? I'd like to hand pick my opponents cars and how many of them there are. Is that really so hard?

It is all these little "why can't I... " moments in Gran Turismo that spoil it for me and I just don't see them changing any time soon. There are other problems, sure (cough, cough engine sounds, cough, AI), but these things just drive me nuts because there is no good reason for them.

 

[MeanElf]

I really cannot understand the excuse of the PS3 performance at all. Just a few examples using @Imari 's list:

Improved career mode
- You could improve the story line so to say with a career path you chose.
- You could make the difficulty adjustable
- You could make an event/championship creator providing endless playability offline.

Improved online
- Better search and filter options that require absolutely no technical effort
- More detailed definition of what is allowed in terms of tuning an what is not. Not simply allowed/not allowed
- More customizable time displays (gap to the driver in front, at your back, custom driver (e.g. your team mate, the guy in front of you in the championship)

Improved customisation
- At least a very very basic livery editor. At least some stripes, stickers and a race number. The PS3 can do this.

Those would undoubtedly make GT6 better and have absolutely nothing to do with the PS3s performance but with PD's design choices. I would be very surprised if these choices looked any different on PS4.

Got me on the first.

The second, well isn't an imroved online mode due? I think it would be better to wait on that before conducting a post-mortem just yet.

The last - well true, anything like that would most definitely depend on what the PS3 could handle, as it does rely on processing power to handle whatever design people come up with and render it onto a randomly moving model along with its interaction with lighting, shade etc. I know that you are asking about basic customisation and I'm sure someone will point out tht Forza 4 did a full-on one okay with similar console capabilities - that game however had pre-baked lighting conditions; a priority they chose. PD went another route, opting to give us day/night cycles. Though to return to the point being made, are you sure that the simplified customisation options would satisfy? Every game I've played in the past with such simple options (Shift, various NFS titles) I found that I got fed up with the basic offerings and after a while I simply didn't bother applying any decals anymore. A simple paint job and rim colours did me just fine.

Now, I appreciate that's just me - but despite what a number of the half-baked here think, PD do listen to what is being said in various areas and will have been looking into people's customisation habits in car games. I mean, those hidden MX-5 stripes, checkered pattern etc might well be a way of testing this on GT. If they feel enough folks are interested, then it could well appear as an update or more likely in GT7.

I mean, it has been said before, that it's all down to choices and priorities and what we have appears to be a part of where PD wantes to aim their ship. If that isn't agreeable to people, then perhaps they should move on to where someone is doing that. If some of those improvements take until GT7 and it's power brings their vision in line. I'm fairly sure those who have been muttering about other games will be back onboard.

What does that have to do with anything I said. What does PD's lack of imagination have anything to with the PS3's power?

You say lack of imagination, I say otherwise. You don't make a series like GT with a lack of imagination. Capabilities due to choices made (see above.)

What does not being able to do engine swaps have to do with the PS3's lack of power?

Probably nothing, but are you sure that's where PD wants to go with the game? I can't be.

What does PD not being able to create a single player mode wich is exciting and has events that puts your car against other cars of similar spec have to do with the PS3's lack of power?

Nothing at all, I agree - I really see no difference between GT6/5/4 or 3 in that respect though. I didn't play GT 2 or the original, so I can't comment there. So what did you expect to change in the way the game has been designed?

What does PD not being able to create sounds that sound more like the real thing have to do with the PS3's lack of power?

According to a huge number of posts, that kinda does rely on a bit of the PS3's processing power. I'm sure you haven't missed the comments that have come from Kazunori-san about what they are aiming for and when ready, that'll be updated. It's definitely not as simple a matter as some seem to think.

What does not having a livery editor have to do with the PS3's lack of power?

See my comments to Pyrates above...

GT6 could be a lot better without having to change the graphics. That's what my post was about. I really don't understand how anybody could not agree.

Quite easily really, as we are all not the same - we all have different expectations, wishes and hopes in life, let alone what a game is capable of delivering.

Answers for you in bold.

 

[fredyellowone]

@MeanElf : tell me about the absence of an Hood view. I'm curious.

 

[Samus]

You know what makes the absence of consistent hood view as a gameplay view most frustrating? The fact it's available in replay mode. So frustrating, racing from the roof of something like the Fiat 500 just looks silly.

 

[VBR]

For me, a lot of the problems with GT are the result of Kaz's "my vision" mentality. I'm happy to see his vision but do not want to be restricted by it. This for me is where Gran Turismo falls down...It is all these little "why can't I... " moments in Gran Turismo that spoil it for me and I just don't see them changing any time soon. There are other problems, sure...but these things just drive me nuts because there is no good reason for them.

What does PD's lack of imagination have anything to with the PS3's power? GT6 could be a lot better without having to change the graphics. That's what my post was about. I really don't understand how anybody could not agree.

27 things & counting that would improve the GT series without using any additional power (apart from maybe number 18).


👍

 

[VolkswagenX]

You say lack of imagination, I say otherwise. You don't make a series like GT with a lack of imagination. Capabilities due to choices made (see above.)

they made the first GT years ago and not much has changed since then. It even got worse in some parts. They have 1200 cars in the game but can't come up with a decent single player. How is that the PS3's fault? that is what we are talking about here. I don't care about PD's design choices. There is souch stuff in this game that could have made it great, but PD's lack of imagination is what keeps GT6 from being the best racing game on the market.

Probably nothing, but are you sure that's where PD wants to go with the game? I can't be.

It doesn't matter where PD wants to go with the game. The question is if it is possible to do them in GT and we all know the answer is yes. Hackers have shown us it is possible and other games on the PS3 have also shown it is possible. It would make the game better and a lot more realistic.

Nothing at all, I agree - I really see no difference between GT6/5/4 or 3 in that respect though. I didn't play GT 2 or the original, so I can't comment there. So what did you expect to change in the way the game has been designed?

You said you played GT4 but you don't see a differnce between 5 and 6? You really don't see it or you don't want to see it. A spec mode was longer and the quality of the whole game was more consistent (no premium vs standard). What in the PS3's hardware made it impossible for them to ad a speed test? they took it out in five, then sold it to us as dlc (i bought it) and then take it out again. Why?why? Why?

According to a huge number of posts, that kinda does rely on a bit of the PS3's processing power. I'm sure you haven't missed the comments that have come from Kazunori-san about what they are aiming for and when ready, that'll be updated. It's definitely not as simple a matter as some seem to think.

No it doesn't. What you are describing is PD making up excuses for their incompetence. Other developers have proven that it's possible to have good sounding cars and even some of the cars in GT6 sound ok-ish. 'are sounds are bad because we are trying to be super special' is PD talk for not knowing what they are doing.

See my comments to Pyrates above...

More excuses. Funny how PD apologists will except ps2 quality graphics on a ps3 but would not want to have livery editor if it messes up the lightning.

Quite easily really, as we are all not the same - we all have different expectations, wishes and hopes in life, let alone what a game is capable of delivering.

So improving the game without taking anything out of the game is not something you'd like? Would a livery editor, engine swaps, more a-spec races, grid starts, qualifying and a competitive grid really be such a bad thing for you?

 

[VolkswagenX]

27 things & counting that would improve the GT series without using any additional power (apart from maybe number 18).


👍

Agreed on all of those. Think that point 3 annoys me the most.

 

[Stumps_GTI]

You said you played GT4 but you don't see a difference between 5 and 6? You really don't see it or you don't want to see it. A spec mode was longer and the quality of the whole game was more consistent (no premium vs standard). What in the PS3's hardware made it impossible for them to ad a speed test? they took it out in five, then sold it to us as dlc (i bought it - as did I and MANY others ) and then take it out again. Why?why? Why?

I really liked your whole post, but this is so TRUE for me.
One of (not the MOST important) best features of a game, the ability to "TEST" your cars........G O N E !!
How the **** does that make sense??
The VERY first Test course (GT1 - GT2) was, and still IS, the best test track ever in the game in my opinion (note, I said MY opinion)...I think the 10million mile oval is lame, I go to sleep waiting to get to the end of a straight.



Ok, time to show my red face again....
So over the weekend I actually played some more, finally opening up the Super License..Wow, disappointing?????
YES!
Prior to that, I was "made sit and watch" their ending movie? WTF? No ability to stop that????
And to find what? Is it NINE races??? 3 "STARS" a piece = 27 STARS!
Another WOW moment... NINE freaking races, the longest being 24 minutes. 👎
Not even a Championship in it.
🤬 you PD!

Edit:
Just added my tick of approval to VBR's list of improvements, sorry I hadn't seen that before.

 

[fredyellowone]

Sometimes, I wonder what is going on with Kaz. He takes the time to map the stars (Can we agree that this is the most useless feature in a racing game), put valuable ressources to build races on the moon that no one ever asked for, and omit to implement the Hood view, fail to deliver a race builder, fail to deliver a livery editor, fail to even work on the single player. (SP is the same thing that in GT5. Even the cars used are the same. He did not work on that part AT ALL.)

I remember a member saying on here that basically, no matter what kaz could do, people will always cry and moan anyway, and they will never be satisfied.

Bull****!

I am a regular member of a lot of forums. Including MLB the Show, Rocksmith and some other games. And the vast majority of the time, people will be unhappy about one features or two. Not the whole game! For example, some people are unhappy about note detection issue for Rocksmith. Or some other would prefer better songs according to their tastes. But they are not criticizing the whole thing!

Here, it's the opposite. Apart the physics, the number of cars and the number of tracks, every feature is either A) broken, B) Never been delivered, C) Bland and Boring, D) Useless or E) Half completed.

Also, I'm very unhappy about reviewers. Giving GT6 good ratings based only on reputation is not doing any good to the franchise.

There's only a way to fix all that. GT6 must fall into oblivion. And If Kaz is not able to Wake up on time for GT7, then we must not buy that next iteration when it releases. I also hope that Kaz will not be cocky enough - again - to put on the market another freaking cash grab with another one of those half finished prologues games.

It's enough.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I really liked your whole post, but this is so TRUE for me.
One of (not the MOST important) best features of a game, the ability to "TEST" your cars........G O N E !!
How the **** does that make sense??
The VERY first Test course (GT1 - GT2) was, and still IS, the best test track ever in the game in my opinion (note, I said MY opinion)...I think the 10million mile oval is lame, I go to sleep waiting to get to the end of a straight.



Ok, time to show my red face again....
So over the weekend I actually played some more, finally opening up the Super License..Wow, disappointing?????
YES!
Prior to that, I was "made sit and watch" their ending movie? WTF? No ability to stop that????
And to find what? Is it NINE races??? 3 "STARS" a piece = 27 STARS!
Another WOW moment... NINE freaking races, the longest being 24 minutes. 👎
Not even a Championship in it.
🤬 you PD!

Edit:
Just added my tick of approval to VBR's list of improvements, sorry I hadn't seen that before.

lol on the 10 million mile oval XD that wasn't really necessary and the old test tracks were good enough to test speed but I was glad that they brought it back in 5. Making us pay for it was silly though. But PD is PD so they take out the speed tests again pffff... and for what?

 

[Johnnypenso]

27 things & counting that would improve the GT series without using any additional power (apart from maybe number 18).
👍

I have a number 28 for that list. Why is the selection in the Recommended Garage so lame? I'm not aware if there are some kind of server limitations that make it so, but why don't we have hundreds of cars to choose from for spec racing? I imagine tuning prohibited racing online would be much more popular if all the premium cars for example were provided for us to use. It would simplify things so much, especially the need to buy and oil change dozen upon dozens of cars and leave them untuned just to go racing online and hopefully find a lobby that conforms to the kind of cars you have in your arsenal.

EDIT: And if there are server limitations, why not rotate the selection every month or so, and retain the top 2 or 3 selected cars each time you do it?. After a year you would have gone through 300 or more cars and you'd know what the most popular were and could then streamline the car selection by having 10 or 15 favourites and then rotating in and out a bunch of other cars.

 

[Brend]

Some sort of 'advanced search' would be helpful too, specify parameters which narrow the car selection.

E.g: >500pp, under 70k, FR drive-train.

 

[PepeMickey]

All cars should be available in Arcade Mode, some people are bored of doing the same old ''start with a crap car, grind...grind..grind until you get better cars'' career structure you find in almost all racing games, specially when the events are always the exact same with each new iteration.

Plus, it would be nice to test drive a car before buying it to see if it's garbage or if the sound is just unbearable.

 

[napalmhardcore]

All cars should be available in Arcade Mode, some people are bored of doing the same old ''start with a crap car, grind...grind..grind until you get better cars'' career structure you find in almost all racing games, specially when the events are always the exact same with each new iteration.

Plus, it would be nice to test drive a car before buying it to see if it's garbage or if the sound is just unbearable.

Hmmm, I'm a little torn there. On one hand I can understand that not everyone has the time to endlessly grind and so will never get to drive particular cars. On the other hand, just giving you all the cars straight off would take some of the fun out of it.

Maybe they could have it so that you can select a car that you want to unlock, then you are given a series of challenges to unlock it. Just brainstorming here

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hmmm, I'm a little torn there. On one hand I can understand that not everyone has the time to endlessly grind and so will never get to drive particular cars. On the other hand, just giving you all the cars straight off would take some of the fun out of it.

Maybe they could have it so that you can select a car that you want to unlock, then you are given a series of challenges to unlock it. Just brainstorming here

I've never understood why, in a game with 1200 cars, we have to put up so many barriers to driving those cars.

 

[napalmhardcore]

I've never understood why, in a game with 1200 cars, we have to put up so many barriers to driving those cars.

I personally find it a little more fun to have to earn something in a game. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong... But you're wrong (just kidding ). Just sharing my opinion, and I respect yours.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I personally find it a little more fun to have to earn something in a game. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong... But you're wrong (just kidding ). Just sharing my opinion, and I respect yours.

I totally get that and I wouldn't want to take it away from you either. I know there are lots of people that still enjoy the classic GT Career Mode and it should stay for that reason. But I think there are lots of us that are pretty tired of anything to do with offline, and more importantly, having to slog through the offline to get to the online and building a stable of tuned cars to use. PD needs to be mindful of the past, but also needs to look forward and develop multiple paths through the game to broaden it's appeal beyond the diehards that still want to play the game old school.

 

[napalmhardcore]

I totally get that and I wouldn't want to take it away from you either. I know there are lots of people that still enjoy the classic GT Career Mode and it should stay for that reason. But I think there are lots of us that are pretty tired of anything to do with offline, and more importantly, having to slog through the offline to get to the online and building a stable of tuned cars to use. PD needs to be mindful of the past, but also needs to look forward and develop multiple paths through the game to broaden it's appeal beyond the diehards that still want to play the game old school.

I'll admit, my opinion was not taking into account those that primarily play online. My last experience with online racing was GT5 Prologue (never touched GT5's online).

I realise much was different between that and GT5, but I got annoyed as hosts would end games as soon as they realised they couldn't catch me, or people would exploit the hit detection, so they'd ram me just hard enough to send me off the track, but not hard enough to incur a penalty. That and people riding the wall on High Speed Ring.

That was a case of me giving online racing a go. I realise it is not always like that, but it made me realise that I'm perfectly happy playing offline. I'm primarily a hot-lap kind of guy myself, although do occasionally like to race... but not on Gran Turismo. That's when I prefer stuff like the Simbin titles.

But back to the unlock thing. Being someone that doesn't play the online portion means I have not been able to gauge the car unlock situation in that context. If I were someone that played online, I think I'd still prefer some kind of unlock system. But I'm unable to suggest how this would work.

 

[bluecharger]

I totally get that and I wouldn't want to take it away from you either. I know there are lots of people that still enjoy the classic GT Career Mode and it should stay for that reason. But I think there are lots of us that are pretty tired of anything to do with offline, and more importantly, having to slog through the offline to get to the online and building a stable of tuned cars to use. PD needs to be mindful of the past, but also needs to look forward and develop multiple paths through the game to broaden it's appeal beyond the diehards that still want to play the game old school.

I think PD's moving your way. The absolute lack of rewarding things to do offline speaks volumes about the direction things are going. The irony is that I don't think ANYone who's posted here about it hasn't had a list of negative things about the current online quality. Considering I actually liked GT5, which I was surprised to see such a huge number of folks here complaining about on MANY fronts, and can inform you on a LOT of things I'm not caring for in GT6, and the fact that to go further I'll have to get a PS4 (interestingly, my fingers tripped on that, and I had to correctS$) and there's the monthly fee and the new focus on microtransactions...this is likely my last GT ride. Kinda hatin' that.

 

[MeanElf]

they made the first GT years ago and not much has changed since then. It even got worse in some parts. They have 1200 cars in the game but can't come up with a decent single player. How is that the PS3's fault? that is what we are talking about here. I don't care about PD's design choices. There is souch stuff in this game that could have made it great, but PD's lack of imagination is what keeps GT6 from being the best racing game on the market.

I still don’t see that as a sign of no imagination. It’s a racing game, how many way do you think they can portray a particular event without repeating the formula? As for the rest of your comment above, I’ll get to that shortly.

It doesn't matter where PD wants to go with the game. The question is if it is possible to do them in GT and we all know the answer is yes. Hackers have shown us it is possible and other games on the PS3 have also shown it is possible. It would make the game better and a lot more realistic.

Possible or not is irrelevant if that’s their design choice. I’m sorry, but just because a number of people want that, doesn’t mean all want it. I would imagine a more pertinent way of looking at this is to say that once 60% or more of the game players want that kind of thing, they will probably do something about it. Sorry to come back to design choices again, but PD have sort of mentioned that they aren’t particularly interested in that aspect right now. That doesn’t mean to say that it will always be so – just not now.

You said you played GT4 but you don't see a differnce between 5 and 6? You really don't see it or you don't want to see it. A spec mode was longer and the quality of the whole game was more consistent (no premium vs standard). What in the PS3's hardware made it impossible for them to ad a speed test? they took it out in five, then sold it to us as dlc (i bought it) and then take it out again. Why?why? Why?

Now I’m a bit confused here. Are you talking about the comparison between 5 and 6 or 4 and 6? But yes, amongst the many differences I noticed, I saw that GT6 is far shorter – this is quite probably a move to counter the western gripe factor about the amount of grinding in the games so far, which has actually been dropping throughout the series, apparently. Unfortunately, PD didn’t seem to take into consideration that westerners will gripe regardless, as they’ll always find a reason. So, yes, I see it but I don’t let it get to me.
The lack of premium vs standard thing in GT4 was because that was PS2 – a whole different beastie with regard to game processing requirements. It also had no day/night cycle, or weather If I recall correctly – just the aftermath of rain once on Tsukuba. As for the speed test option - the update came free, but the track they chose to use for it (ideal for that purpose) we did need to pay for, true – yet they certainly didn’t sell us a speed test option, I think you are stretching the point a bit much if you want to spin it like that. Route X was primarily a track in its own right and has every justification for being a paid DLC as it’s a fine track.

No it doesn't. What you are describing is PD making up excuses for their incompetence. Other developers have proven that it's possible to have good sounding cars and even some of the cars in GT6 sound ok-ish. 'are sounds are bad because we are trying to be super special' is PD talk for not knowing what they are doing.

Again, a difference in viewpoint and choice of words – you say they’re making excuses. I see the ongoing quest for perfection. I like what they have done with the Red Bull Jr and I feel that like with the MX-5 hidden stripes and whatnot, they are testing how well received the difference is. I still maintain that the PS3 limitation are playing a larger role than you are willing to concede to – nor am I alone in that thought.

More excuses. Funny how PD apologists will except ps2 quality graphics on a ps3 but would not want to have livery editor if it messes up the lightning.

Who said anything about not wanting the editor because of the lighting? Please re-read what I said, it clearly states that I got bored with limited choices of decals, so am quite happy to do without.

So improving the game without taking anything out of the game is not something you'd like? Would a livery editor, engine swaps, more a-spec races, grid starts, qualifying and a competitive grid really be such a bad thing for you?

Not at all, but I certainly am not going to lose any sleep if it doesn’t show in the next two weeks, months or years.

Lastly, I said I’d come back to the PS3 limitations thing. Maybe I should approach this from a different angle though, as I feel the point I’m making is being missed.

I don’t know if you play or follow the development of other game genres than racing, but recently Naughty Dog were discussing the transition of The Last of Us to the PS4. Their point, contrary to what most people thought at the time, was that TLoU had been simplified so that the PS3 could handle the graphics, all the action and so be able to cope with the game. The assets for that game had already been created at a far higher resolution than the PS3 could handle.

To convert the game to PS4 therefore, will be a relatively simple task. PD likewise have been working with far higher resolutions than they can use at present; playing the long game, they knew that the PS4 was around the corner whilst they were working on GT5. The bulk of their efforts have been spent making those assets useful on the PS3. What ND said, tells me without doubt that the PS3’s limits were a factor in how games are designed for it, and that certain things need to be juggled if a balanced result is to be achieved. So in effect those design choices are important and directly due to the PS3's limits. Frankly, I think they've done a sterling job coming from what they had with GT5 to what GT6 already is.

@MeanElf : tell me about the absence of an Hood view. I'm curious.

I honestly don't know. Did you think that I might?

Grid 3. April 22...The very low number of people playing GT6 right now is about to become abysmally low. Game is doomed. And future of the series not bright either.

So funny that you consider that GT6 might be endanged partially by Grid 3 (the others, I can understand.) I got Grid 2 with PS+ and I haven't gone that far with it.

 

[VBR]

I have a number 28 for that list. Why is the selection in the Recommended Garage so lame? I'm not aware if there are some kind of server limitations that make it so, but why don't we have hundreds of cars to choose from for spec racing? I imagine tuning prohibited racing online would be much more popular if all the premium cars for example were provided for us to use. It would simplify things so much, especially the need to buy and oil change dozen upon dozens of cars and leave them untuned just to go racing online and hopefully find a lobby that conforms to the kind of cars you have in your arsenal.

EDIT: And if there are server limitations, why not rotate the selection every month or so, and retain the top 2 or 3 selected cars each time you do it?. After a year you would have gone through 300 or more cars and you'd know what the most popular were and could then streamline the car selection by having 10 or 15 favourites and then rotating in and out a bunch of other cars.

Done. 👍

 

[fredyellowone]

@MeanElf "I still don’t see that as a sign of no imagination. It’s a racing game, how many way do you think they can portray a particular event without repeating the formula?"

Competition is able to make it exciting. Funny, heh?

" I saw that GT6 is far shorter – this is quite probably a move to counter the western gripe factor about the amount of grinding in the games so far, which has actually been dropping throughout the series, apparently."

God. Now I can say I've seen every possible excuse from fanboys on here.

 

[fredyellowone]

I totally get that and I wouldn't want to take it away from you either. I know there are lots of people that still enjoy the classic GT Career Mode and it should stay for that reason. But I think there are lots of us that are pretty tired of anything to do with offline, and more importantly, having to slog through the offline to get to the online and building a stable of tuned cars to use. PD needs to be mindful of the past, but also needs to look forward and develop multiple paths through the game to broaden it's appeal beyond the diehards that still want to play the game old school.

I think it's too easy to grind cars. I would prefer a real big and fun career mode in which every car you buy would be an important decision. Just like in real life. In real racing, no-one can afford to buy all cars. Only Bill gates could, but wouldn't, and some cheickhs of Saudi Arabia.

But the state of the SP is so broken right now that I completely understand that you find tedious and boring to grind for them.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I still don’t see that as a sign of no imagination. It’s a racing game, how many way do you think they can portray a particular event without repeating the formula? As for the rest of your comment above, I’ll get to that shortly.


Possible or not is irrelevant if that’s their design choice. I’m sorry, but just because a number of people want that, doesn’t mean all want it. I would imagine a more pertinent way of looking at this is to say that once 60% or more of the game players want that kind of thing, they will probably do something about it. Sorry to come back to design choices again, but PD have sort of mentioned that they aren’t particularly interested in that aspect right now. That doesn’t mean to say that it will always be so – just not now.


Now I’m a bit confused here. Are you talking about the comparison between 5 and 6 or 4 and 6? But yes, amongst the many differences I noticed, I saw that GT6 is far shorter – this is quite probably a move to counter the western gripe factor about the amount of grinding in the games so far, which has actually been dropping throughout the series, apparently. Unfortunately, PD didn’t seem to take into consideration that westerners will gripe regardless, as they’ll always find a reason. So, yes, I see it but I don’t let it get to me.
The lack of premium vs standard thing in GT4 was because that was PS2 – a whole different beastie with regard to game processing requirements. It also had no day/night cycle, or weather If I recall correctly – just the aftermath of rain once on Tsukuba. As for the speed test option - the update came free, but the track they chose to use for it (ideal for that purpose) we did need to pay for, true – yet they certainly didn’t sell us a speed test option, I think you are stretching the point a bit much if you want to spin it like that. Route X was primarily a track in its own right and has every justification for being a paid DLC as it’s a fine track.


Again, a difference in viewpoint and choice of words – you say they’re making excuses. I see the ongoing quest for perfection. I like what they have done with the Red Bull Jr and I feel that like with the MX-5 hidden stripes and whatnot, they are testing how well received the difference is. I still maintain that the PS3 limitation are playing a larger role than you are willing to concede to – nor am I alone in that thought.


Who said anything about not wanting the editor because of the lighting? Please re-read what I said, it clearly states that I got bored with limited choices of decals, so am quite happy to do without.


Not at all, but I certainly am not going to lose any sleep if it doesn’t show in the next two weeks, months or years.

Lastly, I said I’d come back to the PS3 limitations thing. Maybe I should approach this from a different angle though, as I feel the point I’m making is being missed.

I don’t know if you play or follow the development of other game genres than racing, but recently Naughty Dog were discussing the transition of The Last of Us to the PS4. Their point, contrary to what most people thought at the time, was that TLoU had been simplified so that the PS3 could handle the graphics, all the action and so be able to cope with the game. The assets for that game had already been created at a far higher resolution than the PS3 could handle.

To convert the game to PS4 therefore, will be a relatively simple task. PD likewise have been working with far higher resolutions than they can use at present; playing the long game, they knew that the PS4 was around the corner whilst they were working on GT5. The bulk of their efforts have been spent making those assets useful on the PS3. What ND said, tells me without doubt that the PS3’s limits were a factor in how games are designed for it, and that certain things need to be juggled if a balanced result is to be achieved. So in effect those design choices are important and directly due to the PS3's limits. Frankly, I think they've done a sterling job coming from what they had with GT5 to what GT6 already is.



I honestly don't know. Did you think that I might?

So funny that you consider that GT6 might be endanged partially by Grid 3 (the others, I can understand.) I got Grid 2 with PS+ and I haven't gone that far with it.

Don't really feel like replying now because it seems pointless. Will respond to all of what you said when I get back on my computer and feel like it. All I will say for now is that you really sound like someone making excuses for a company as if it was your best friend we're talking about. Everything you said is a limitation on PD's part ( bad design decisions) and not a limitation of the PS3.

 

[Jay84]

I think at this point gt6 is a rotten corpse that they keep promising to bring back to life, its been how long and we -STILL- dont have course maker or even online community or heck WEEKLY RACE EVENTS (TT do NOT count)

People think Sienna content will save it but will add at most what 2 cars?

Sorry to rant but ive had enough of P.D`s utter and total BS

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think at this point gt6 is a rotten corpse that they keep promising to bring back to life, its been how long and we -STILL- dont have course maker or even online community or heck WEEKLY RACE EVENTS (TT do NOT count)

People think Sienna content will save it but will add at most what 2 cars?

Sorry to rant but ive had enough of P.D`s utter and total BS

When the Senna content comes, at first I'll be all excited to see a Formula Ford in there (speculating). I'll try the Seasonal content that comes with it, love the car on CS or SH tires. Then I'll go online and find a couple of rooms running the car with 110 HP/500kgs on racing slicks and the excitement will be dampened. I'll open a room with the title "Formula Ford Sports Hards" and in 2 hours one or two people will wander in, one of which will say nothing and leave, and the other will say, "Can you changes to Racing Softs?"...at which point the room will be closed

 

[MeanElf]

Competition is able to make it exciting. Funny, heh?
" I saw that GT6 is far shorter – this is quite probably a move to counter the western gripe factor about the amount of grinding in the games so far, which has actually been dropping throughout the series, apparently."
God. Now I can say I've seen every possible excuse from fanboys on here.

Aside from your first point, which is valid in many ways, your second response just devolved into a 'playing chess with pigeons' reply: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon chess

I give up...

 

[VolkswagenX]

Aside from your first point, which is valid in many ways, your second response just devolved into a 'playing chess with pigeons' reply: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pigeon chess

I give up...

You're the pigeon in this debate. Please explain how GT6 has become less of a grind with lower pay out for races? Just played GT2 for a couple of hours and nothing in there felt like a grind. Within a couple of hours I was able to win that race at midfield that one you a super tt car that could be sold for 250.000 . The race takes about three and a half minutes to complete and you could win the car over and over again.

Doing that race over and over is a form of grinding but you could quickly build your garage. There is also no 20 million cr. cars in that game and a lot of the really expensive cars could be won. GT5 was less of a grind because we could trade cars (till they put a 1 million cr. limit on trading). We also had the birthday gifts wich could be abused using multiple account. GT6 is a grind and PD did this on purpose because the think a lot of gamers would be being credits from the psn store. they treated GT6 like a free 2 play game, the difference being you had to pay 2 play and then pay 2 unlock content.

Free 2 play games do the same. You can buy new car/gear with real money or you grind for hours to get it for free. The difference with GT6 and other free 2 play games is that F2P games are free.

 

[MeanElf]

You're the pigeon in this debate. Please explain how GT6 has become less of a grind with lower pay out for races? Just played GT2 for a couple of hours and nothing in there felt like a grind. Within a couple of hours I was able to win that race at midfield that one you a super tt car that could be sold for 250.000 . The race takes about three and a half minutes to complete and you could win the car over and over again.

Doing that race over and over is a form of grinding but you could quickly build your garage. There is also no 20 million cr. cars in that game and a lot of the really expensive cars could be won. GT5 was less of a grind because we could trade cars (till they put a 1 million cr. limit on trading). We also had the birthday gifts wich could be abused using multiple account. GT6 is a grind and PD did this on purpose because the think a lot of gamers would be being credits from the psn store. they treated GT6 like a free 2 play game, the difference being you had to pay 2 play and then pay 2 unlock content.

Free 2 play games do the same. You can buy new car/gear with real money or you grind for hours to get it for free. The difference with GT6 and other free 2 play games is that F2P games are free.

Now that is exactly what a pigeon in this context would say...

I didn't actually talk about GT and GT2 or even 3. We were discussing the comparison between GT4, 5 and 6 I thought. And yes, running the same race over and over to earn credits, is the definition of grinding. GT6 on the other hand makes running those races more enjoyable, due to the improvement in physics.

I don't really think that whole 'it's fixed so you need to buy credits' thing is a valid argument though - there was an improved payout period, if you recall, and yes, I know other games do that too as incentive or reward on occasion - but despite the lower payouts it really isn't that difficult to earn more than enough to buy cars in the game without paying real cash. It is there as an option. I play War Thunder which is F2P and trust me, that takes a lot, lot longer to gain the aircraft (and soon land forces vehicles) through plying without paying.

But back to GT6 - the very expensive cars will take more effort to obtain, true, but hey - it's like that in real life too. In addition, I think that some of the more expensive cars from GT5 are far cheaper now.

...All I will say for now is that you really sound like someone making excuses for a company as if it was your best friend we're talking about...

That's a fairly accurate assesment - I do consider the GT series as a friend. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

 

[VolkswagenX]

Now that is exactly what a pigeon in this context would say...

I didn't actually talk about GT and GT2 or even 3. We were discussing the comparison between GT4, 5 and 6 I thought. And yes, running the same race over and over to earn credits, is the definition of grinding. GT6 on the other hand makes running those races more enjoyable, due to the improvement in physics.

I don't really think that whole 'it's fixed so you need to buy credits' thing is a valid argument though - there was an improved payout period, if you recall, and yes, I know other games do that too as incentive or reward on occasion - but despite the lower payouts it really isn't that difficult to earn more than enough to buy cars in the game without paying real cash. It is there as an option. I play War Thunder which is F2P and trust me, that takes a lot, lot longer to gain the aircraft (and soon land forces vehicles) through plying without paying.

But back to GT6 - the very expensive cars will take more effort to obtain, true, but hey - it's like that in real life too. In addition, I think that some of the more expensive cars from GT5 are far cheaper now.

The pigeon was asked if certain things in would be possible in GT6 within the limitation of the PS3. Instead of just answering what was asked, the pigeon went on about PD's choices wich have nothing to do with what was asked.

I brought up GT2 but even compared to GT5, 6 is more of a grind and this has nothing to do with physics. The races are still easy wich make race boring to me and to a lot of others. People complained about GT5 being to easy and what did PD do to solve this problem? Making the races even easier!( the even let you win in GT6).

Funny how you bring up increased pay out periods because that's exactly what a lot of free to play games tend to do to get you to play more (people log on just to get their log in bonus) .

And then you compare GT6 and buying high end cars to real life. I think this is ridiculous. I could except this if the racing in GT6 was so exciting that it would keep me playing for hours a day. GT6 doesn't do that. It bores you to death with lifeless races against cars that don't even match. Just having a grid full of cars competing that would make sense would be a huge improvement. You brought up the comparison to real life. I. Real life, racing is exciting. The races in GT6 are time trials with moving obstacles. I have no problem with the physics but the racing is just boring. There is no real risks in GT6 like there would be in real life.

That's a fairly accurate assesment - I do consider the GT series as a friend. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

No problem with you feeling that way, but I asked you about the limitation of the PS3. You kept talking about PD's design choices. A developer like PD should be capable to create the best game they can within the limitation of the PS3. Not having engine swaps in GT6 has nothing to do with the limitations of the PS3. Kaz feeling like this shouldn't be in a car game is not the fault of the PS3 because we all know it's possible. I don't care about your feelings for PD or what PD thinks should be in the game.

Edit: vbr also posted a link with 27 things that could easily be improved by pd without making your experience with GT worse and could all be done on PS3.