The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[MeanElf]

...On a side not to both Imari and MeanElf - what was that mentioned on a class lawsuit against PD? Can someone post a link for me please if able to? I'm curious to read up on it and it's outcome as a similar case has recently happened here in Australia against steam for faulty games which can not be fixed on the consumers end and entitlement to a refund under our consumer protection laws.

Sorry, I went back looking for that thread (the search function and I simply do not get on) but unfortunately could not find it. I do recall that Famine was heavily involved in explaining the intricacies and unlikelyhood of such a class lawsuit working at all anytime before fourteen months after release...then there was the whole SCEE/SCEA thing.

 

[Imari]

On a side not to both Imari and MeanElf - what was that mentioned on a class lawsuit against PD? Can someone post a link for me please if able to? I'm curious to read up on it and it's outcome as a similar case has recently happened here in Australia against steam for faulty games which can not be fixed on the consumers end and entitlement to a refund under our consumer protection laws.

I'm pretty sure that if you call up Sony and ask for a refund you'll be able to get one if you threaten to get consumer affairs involved. They know that they're not going to win, so they'd rather just give you your money back and get you out of their hair. It might not be easy, but it'd be doable.

I managed it once when my PS3 broke a week out of warranty. They bitched and moaned, and then I pointed out that consumer affairs tends to take a dim view of stuff that breaks just out of warranty, and so they fixed it.

If you're unsure, call consumer affairs or citizens advice bureau, they'd probably be able to give you better advice than me.

 

[Jimmy_DA]

Thanks for the replies Imari and MeanElf !

I shall keep an eye on it and see how the development progress pans out. PD still has a month (and a bit?) to uphold their promises. Either way I'll let everyone know if I proceed with anything and the outcome

 

[Lucas]

Did I hear right? There are no replays in GT6? What about pictures? With no replays, is it impossible to take pictures of racing?

 

[MeanElf]

Did I hear right? There are no replays in GT6? What about pictures? With no replays, is it impossible to take pictures of racing?

That would be Driveclub you heard about - though both features will be coming during an update. GT6 has replays which you can save for later. Photomode works during the post-race replay and saved replay equally.

Technically though, photos can be taken without a replay, but not in GT6. Infamous: Second Son and The Last of Us (PS4 version) have a set up that allows you to pause the game and enter photomode, complete with moving around the image and changing various aspects to it.

 

[Lucas]

That would be Driveclub you heard about - though both features will be coming during an update. GT6 has replays which you can save for later. Photomode works during the post-race replay and saved replay equally.

Technically though, photos can be taken without a replay, but not in GT6. Infamous: Second Son and The Last of Us (PS4 version) have a set up that allows you to pause the game and enter photomode, complete with moving around the image and changing various aspects to it.

Oh, thank God.

 

[Imari]

Well, one more month to go.

Polyphony, please get your 🤬 together. You have a lot of stuff to release in the next 30 days or so.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Game updates never happen on weekends, right? So, we just need a new VGT every weekday until December 6, with Course Creator, B-Spec, improved online features, online championships, and club features sprinkled in there at some point.

My magic 8-ball is not going to like this...

 

[CinnamonOD]

Knowing the Alpine, Subaru and Alfa Romeo VGT's are coming, the M4 Pace Car, and the feature/content PD surprises us with, they're at least covering part of one a two of those things, but obviously they'll miss the December 6th deadline for all that content.

 

[1241Penguin]

Don't get your hopes up. PD said they would be converting Standards to Premiums in GT5 back in December 2010 which obviously never happened.

PD has just as much credibility as this guy:

 

[CinnamonOD]

-Bugatti Veyron
-Cizeta V16T
-Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary
-Lamborghini Countach LP400
-Lancia Stratos
-Lotus Europa Special
-Jaguar XJR-9

Plus the 152 Standards that were improved in quality on GT6

Don't make it look like they did nothing

 

[1241Penguin]

-Bugatti Veyron
-Cizeta V16T
-Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary
-Lamborghini Countach LP400
-Lancia Stratos
-Lotus Europa Special
-Jaguar XJR-9

Wow. Seven cars out of 700 or so Standards. Two of which are essentially the same car. How impressive.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-standard-cars-to-be-upgraded-to-premium/

Talk about deception.

By the way, those cars save the Jaguar never showed up in Premium form until one game later.

Plus the 152 Standards that were improved in quality on GT6

Don't make it look like they did nothing

i.e. 152 Standards that never got converted to Premiums.

Gotcha. 👍

 

[Bo]

Wow. Seven cars out of 700 or so Standards. Two of which are essentially the same car. How impressive.

Doesn't matter how impressive you think it is; you made a false statement.

Don't get your hopes up. PD said they would be converting Standards to Premiums in GT5 back in December 2010 which obviously never happened.

i.e. 152 Standards that never got converted to Premiums.

Gotcha. 👍

At least they put some effort into it. Whether you have your glass half empty or half full is up to you.

 

[1241Penguin]

Doesn't matter how impressive you think it is; you made a false statement.

If my statement is false then PD's statement is nothing but deceit. They managed one conversion. One.

Again, how impressive.

At least they put some effort into it. Whether you have your glass half empty or half full is up to you.

Much like how they put "some" effort into releasing the promised features in a reasonable time right?

Yeah, it's no good.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Wow. Seven cars out of 700 or so Standards.

Plus the 160+ new Premium cars added.

Two of which are essentially the same car

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-standard-cars-to-be-upgraded-to-premium/

Talk about deception.

Quoting from the article you linked

Kazunori Yamauchi has revealed that [at least some of] GT5‘s “standard” cars will be upgraded to “premium” models in future updates to the game.

We all know the story of this, I posted it on my last post.

i.e. 152 Standards that never got converted to Premiums.

152 cars that only need an interior view to be considered "Premium" because they all have separate panels

Gotcha. 👍

Who?

 

[Bo]

If my statement is false then PD's statement is nothing but deceit. They managed one conversion. One.

Are you able to count?

-Bugatti Veyron
-Cizeta V16T
-Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary
-Lamborghini Countach LP400
-Lancia Stratos
-Lotus Europa Special
-Jaguar XJR-9

They stated "at least some". They did 7, that's at least some. There isn't any arguing that.

 

[1241Penguin]

Plus the 160+ new Premium cars added.

Irrelevant seeing as we're talking about Standards converting into Premiums in GT5.

Quoting from the article you linked

We all know the story of this, I posted it on my last post.

As I said above, if my statement was false then PD's is nothing but deceit.

152 cars that only need an interior view to be considered "Premium" because they all have separate panels

lolwut

Are you able to count?

Are you able to read?

Don't get your hopes up. PD said they would be converting Standards to Premiums in GT5 back in December 2010 which obviously never happened.

 

[SSQES]

-Bugatti Veyron
-Cizeta V16T
-Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary
-Lamborghini Countach LP400
-Lancia Stratos
-Lotus Europa Special
-Jaguar XJR-9

Plus the 152 Standards that were improved in quality on GT6

Don't make it look like they did nothing

Corvette C2
Sauber C9
Bentley Speed 8...

 

[Imari]

Let's be fair, they do this a lot. And by "this" I mean the bare minimum to meet whatever they've said they would do. They said that they'd upgrade some standards in GT5? Here, have a Jaguar. They said that they'd include leaderboards? Here, have two.

They technically meet their obligations, but they're very careful to do it in the way that involves the minimum amount of work for them, and rarely meets the assumptions that an average consumer might make given a fairly vague announcement. They're also usually fairly careful to make sure their announcements are as vague as possible to, presumably so that they can a) do the minimum amount of work to satisfy the statement if it turns out to be tough, and b) take advantage of people assuming that their work will be of a standard compared to other similar games in the genre.

Game updates never happen on weekends, right? So, we just need a new VGT every weekday until December 6, with Course Creator, B-Spec, improved online features, online championships, and club features sprinkled in there at some point.

My magic 8-ball is not going to like this...

Yeah, there's absolutely no way on God's green earth that they're making the VGT deadline. Or even nearly making it. I'll be surprised if they get to ten by Dec 6 at this point, which is less than one a month. Frankly, that's pretty poor considering the fuss they made about it. And it's a shame, because it's one of the cooler ideas they've had in a while. Had there been a couple of new concept cars coming out each month with a small set of interesting events for each one it would have been amazing.

Course Creator, B Spec, community features: I could see them pulling one of these out of the hat. I don't see how they could possibly have all three ready to go. And if they do somehow pull all three out of an orifice, it begs the question of whether they all happened to get finished just in time, or whether they've been sandbagging just so that they could try and make a big splash. Which would ordinarily be understandable, but in this particular situation I think it would be perceived as taking advantage of customers who have already paid.


I'm tempted to make a one month countdown thread, but I suspect it would degenerate pretty quickly into a cesspool.

 

[Aphelion]

Do you guys really think that the entire workforce at PD just go to work, slack off and do the 'bare minimum' like a bunch of underacheiving school kids? there has got to be more too it than that.

 

[1241Penguin]

Do you guys really think that the entire workforce at PD just go to work, slack off and do the 'bare minimum' like a bunch of underacheiving school kids? there has got to be more too it than that.

I don't think Imari is implying that PD is a bunch of slackers. I would think the opposite, but PD does has a history of promising high and then delivering low. Delivering just enough for them to say they technically fulfilled their promise even though their promises would imply much more to any reasonable person.

 

[Imari]

Do you guys really think that the entire workforce at PD just go to work, slack off and do the 'bare minimum' like a bunch of underacheiving school kids? there has got to be more too it than that.

I don't think the workforce do, no.

In my experience, when projects turn out like this it's usually because management have assigned more work than they have people to do it. There are only so many hours in the day, and one person can only do so much work before their brains turn into mush and start dribbling out their ears. It's the job of management to make sure that the overall project isn't beyond the capability of the staff, and to make course corrections during the project as needed if it turns out that they've aimed too high.

When I say "do the bare minimum", I'm talking about the management getting worried and rushing features out in a state that almost certainly wasn't what was the original design spec, simply to satisfy advertising claims. It's not because the workers were slacking off, that's largely impossible and fairly inconceivable that an entire workforce should be that way. It's because the management made promises that there was no way to meet for the people who actually do the work. Hence they were then required to push out quick-and-dirty solutions, even though the workers themselves are still probably working their bums off.

Notice that while I said "do the bare minimum of work to satisfy the [advertising] statement", I never said or implied that the people doing the work were lazy. I think they're simply placed in an impossible position by other people, who aren't being lazy either, although I don't think that whoever is managing the Gran Turismo project is doing a very good job.

If that's Kazunori Yamauchi, I'm happy to say that I don't think he's doing that particular part of his job very well. He may well come up with great ideas and vision for the game, but there's a difference between having ideas and actually making them happen.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Game updates never happen on weekends, right? So, we just need a new VGT every weekday until December 6, with Course Creator, B-Spec, improved online features, online championships, and club features sprinkled in there at some point.

My magic 8-ball is not going to like this...

So when was it mentioned it is up to only December 6th 2014?

 

[Imari]

So when was it mentioned it is up to only December 6th 2014?

The VGTs are mentioned as being released over approximately a 12 month period on the official website.

The features themselves have no set time frame, but a reasonable amount of people seemed to be OK with "within 12 months" as being a fair amount of time for announcements with no set date of release, and it just happens to fit in with the VGTs.

I mean, if they were going to take more than 12 months to release features it seems pretty disingenuous to announce them at release and not say anything about it. Stuff that's a year or more away wouldn't motivate people to buy the game right then, and so if they actually intended to take more than a year to release then that's some fairly strongly misleading advertising. Especially with Kaz saying things like the course maker may or may not be in the release version.

Everyone has a time frame for which they think releasing the features is reasonable. Polyphony don't have until the end of time. Depending on the person it could be any length of time.

What do you think is a fair amount of time for Polyphony to add in features that they advertised at release (and before)?

 

[mister dog]

The VGTs are mentioned as being released over approximately a 12 month period on the official website.

If they used the word "approximately" when making that statement, i guess that gives them room until 2016

 

[Imari]

If they used the word "approximately" when making that statement, i guess that gives them room until 2016

For me it means that as long as they were close to having them all out after 12 months, that would be fine. I believe there were 28 manufacturers on the list to start with. If they were up to say 24 in December, that would probably be close enough. 20 would be a bit of a miss, but not the end of the world.

So far they're up to 7. And I believe they added more manufacturers to that original 28.

I don't see any way in hell that they're even going to get halfway to 28 by December. We know that there are a couple on the way in one form or another (Alpine, Subaru), but where they're going to get the other 19 from is anyone's guess. 15 is not approximately 28, and neither is 9.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Do you guys really think that the entire workforce at PD just go to work, slack off and do the 'bare minimum' like a bunch of underacheiving school kids? there has got to be more too it than that.

No one that has a minimum level of experience in the corporate world (non-governmental and non-unionized) would ever blame employees for a lack of output, that responsibility always goes to the top of the pyramid. You can put your "lazy employee" hypothesis in your back pocket and keep it there. The staff will work extremely hard given the right direction, work environment and leadership, the same as in any organization.

 

[TokoTurismo]

If the Course Maker and other promised features doesn't arrive before Dec 6, 2014, than I hope the whole world explodes on Kaz and PD because what they did was not only slap every single GT fan's face, but also lied to their faces who believed them (I'm one of those people btw). Dat damaged future sells for GT7 due to fans losing their trust in PD. This is not right and shouldn't be given a free pass, but knowing the "Kaz is god of driving sims" crew they will give them a pass because he can't do no wrong... So, whatever.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If the Course Maker and other promised features doesn't arrive before Dec 6, 2014, than I hope the whole world explodes on Kaz and PD because what they did was not only slap every single GT fan's face, but also lied to their faces who believed them (I'm one of those people btw). Dat damaged future sells for GT7 due to fans losing their trust in PD. This is not right and shouldn't be given a free pass, but knowing the "Kaz is god of driving sims" crew they will give them a pass because he can't do no wrong... So, whatever.

I'd guess most of the people that were going to abandon GT6 have already done so, and those that are left devoted to the game will take any scrap thrown their way and be happy they got fed. They also don't see December 6th as a deadline either, they prefer to leave things open ended and as long as the promised features are delivered before GT7 is released they'll consider their contract fulfilled and happily buy GT7 and the PS4. Heck, even the so called diehard fans like @Tenacious D are willing to abandon, yes completely abandon GT6 in favour of the shiny, new game under development with no release date. From the News Section:

On that note, I’ll have to repeat that even though I’d love to see things added to GT6, I still see it as a dead end game which can’t be enhanced all that much on an old system. If GT6 was sacrificed with just a few new enhancements in order to get GT7 here by sometime next year, I’d be a very happy camper in Gran Turismo Land.

Can you imagine a so called fan of the series actually advocating abandoning the current game to make way for the next version? That's a good indication of how far the brand has fallen.

 

[1241Penguin]

Can you imagine a so called fan of the series actually advocating abandoning the current game to make way for the next version? That's a good indication of how far the brand has fallen.

Did hell freeze over?