The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[PepeMickey]

OMG polyphonys team is half the size of turn 10, how can they possibly get everything In they can over time though so be patient and then you'll probably reply with everyone else is stil in front well it's how it is ok

Again, that's PD's problem, they get more than enough money to grow up, yet, they don't want to or they think that nobody is good enough for them which is BS. This is the main issue with the entire GT franchise, the games can't be fixed until PD gets fixed.

PD is a business and they need to sell in order to maintain themselves and that means keeping up to date with the industry's standards, specially as a AAA developer and even more so with their attitude (they truly think they're THE S*IT). It's not a matter of letting them be or excuse their mistakes. Kaz and his whole crew think they are untouchable (his recent comments regarding sound design confirms this) well then show it or keep quiet, go home and learn how to be humble because we are consumers and if the product doesn't do what the maker says it does, then it's a fraud and there's no reason why we should keep supporting them.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

OMG polyphonys team is half the size of turn 10, how can they possibly get everything In they can over time though so be patient and then you'll probably reply with everyone else is stil in front well it's how it is ok

So, let me get this straight: Poliphony Digital is a studio owned by Sony, fully dedicated to do just one game: Gran Turismo. They did a awful unfinished product in 2010, lagged behind of competition just out of the box. This product managed to sell over 10 million copies worldwide.

Even with all that massive succes on the market, and with backup provided by Sony, the PD is half the size when compared to Turn10, the main competitor.

What a brilliant management.

 

[Earth]

You mean like PC??? Not a console it's a computer goodness me.

Okay so things people want for gt6:

Better engine sounds
Full 60fps
Improved online
No ucd
No standard cars
Improved physics
Better customisation
The 30 something Mazda roadster collection streamlined (and other duplicates)
Some sort of storefront like forza
Free roam
Better gt mode

And people seem to want all of these things at once, and it just won't happen immediately. So, hks, is that enough justification for my point by now??

I dont need much. If GT6 had a livery editor and improved damage and sound Id preorder tomorrow.

As Ive gotten older Ive started to choose what I spend my time on more carefully. Ive found games like Madden and Gran Turismo havent progressed enough in recent years for me to justify spending 10s of hours on them

 

[sparkytooth]

OMG polyphonys team is half the size of turn 10, how can they possibly get everything In they can over time though so be patient and then you'll probably reply with everyone else is stil in front well it's how it is ok

GT5's credits were quite long in my opinion

 

[Tornado]

They were no DNF.

 

[NCRthree]

You mean like PC??? Not a console it's a computer goodness me.

Okay so things people want for gt6:

Better engine sounds
Full 60fps
Improved online
No ucd
No standard cars
Improved physics
Better customisation
The 30 something Mazda roadster collection streamlined (and other duplicates)
Some sort of storefront like forza
Free roam
Better gt mode

And people seem to want all of these things at once, and it just won't happen immediately. So, hks, is that enough justification for my point by now??

Why would any of that be considered "too much"? I've never played Forza so I don't know what a storefront is. Free roam, eh that would be pushing it yeah. But the rest should merely be what's expected from a new GT. You didn't even mention an improved AI which is one of the must requested changes.

 

[ShiftingGears]

So, let me get this straight: Poliphony Digital is a studio owned by Sony, fully dedicated to do just one game: Gran Turismo. They did a awful unfinished product in 2010, lagged behind of competition just out of the box. This product managed to sell over 10 million copies worldwide.

Even with all that massive succes on the market, and with backup provided by Sony, the PD is half the size when compared to Turn10, the main competitor.

What a brilliant management.

Quite.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Why would any of that be considered "too much"? I've never played Forza so I don't know what a storefront is. Free roam, eh that would be pushing it yeah. But the rest should merely be what's expected from a new GT. You didn't even mention an improved AI which is one of the must requested changes.

In Forza, a storefront is where players can spend in-game credits to buy things from other players, like liveries.

 

[sparkytooth]

In Forza, a storefront is where players can spend in-game credits to buy things from other players, like liveries.

Seems good.

I wonder why GT doesn't have something similar yet. Probably because it's incredibly easy to get stuff in GT5.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Seems good.

I wonder why GT doesn't have something similar yet. Probably because it's incredibly easy to get stuff in GT5.

Setting up a storefront to simply buy paint chips seems hardly worth the effort though.

 

[sparkytooth]

If they do add a storefront they'll have to make stuff rarer.

I have 810 cars including all sorts of "rare" cars and stuff. I want a sense of mystery all over again like in GT3.

 

[Eks]

If they do add a storefront they'll have to make stuff rarer.

I have 810 cars including all sorts of "rare" cars and stuff. I want a sense of mystery all over again like in GT3.

Agreed. 👍

 

[napalmhardcore]

As far as I'm aware the graphics were not one of the things people complained about (aside from the shadows). Gripes about the suspension system were likely on the list but far behind tyre modelling and certainly lower down the list than a livery editor was (personally a livery editor is of little importance to me, but I am aware it is a HUGE deal to a lot of people). Developing this new tech took priority over what their customers actually want.

The problem is that Kaz and his team treat Gran Turismo as their own little pet project and do as they please. They are an international multi million selling franchise and should be taking criticism seriously. It only takes one flop to sink a franchise. I don't know about you, but GT5 I bought on misplaced faith. GT6 I will not be pre-ordering. They will have to prove they are worthy of my money.

 

[Elise S1]

As far as I'm aware the graphics were not one of the things people complained about (aside from the shadows). Gripes about the suspension system were likely on the list but far behind tyre modelling and certainly lower down the list than a livery editor was (personally a livery editor is of little importance to me, but I am aware it is a HUGE deal to a lot of people). Developing this new tech took priority over what their customers actually want.

The problem is that Kaz and his team treat Gran Turismo as their own little pet project and do as they please. They are an international multi million selling franchise and should be taking criticism seriously. It only takes one flop to sink a franchise. I don't know about you, but GT5 I bought on misplaced faith. GT6 I will not be pre-ordering. They will have to prove they are worthy of my money.

This is essentially what this thread boils down to - those who feel disenfranchised the series now after the failings of GT5 and the apparent lack of awareness/willing/ability by PD to address said failings. Rather than staunchly defending the upcoming new game, as a 13yr old girl might insist that Justin Beiber really IS the new messiah no matter what mum and dad say, those who have nothing to complain about must realise that there are areas where GT has fallen way behind the competition. Pull your heads out of the sand. To defend PD with arguments like 'they're only a small team' or 'don't expect too much at once' is absurd. Would you defend your absent landlord when your shower sprung a leak?

I wonder if within Sony Kaz is the emperor wandering around in his new clothes but no one has the balls to tell him.

PD - fix the glaring areas of your game repeatedly mentioned in this and other threads. You're falling way behind the competition and people have stopped beliebing!

 

[MeanElf]

...Someone has different standards to you so you basically accuse them of being spoilt and unable to understand the compromises required in design and development...

Holy reading between the lines Batman!

C'mon Scaff, where did I 'basically accuse them of being spoilt' - I did say the other thing and that was the point. I have learned a lot from this forum about software and gaming practicalities and also console limits due to hardward and the same software parameters. Now whilst a good number of people on this thread have issues they would like to see resolved, they do seem to understand what those parameters are and I have no problem with that.

You don't have to agree, but as a mod surely you've seen a lot of people who appear to have no idea about what they are talking when it comes to these grievances. For clarity, it was those people I was refering to.

 

[Scaff]

Holy reading between the lines Batman!

C'mon Scaff, where did I 'basically accuse them of being spoilt' - I did say the other thing and that was the point. I have learned a lot from this forum about software and gaming practicalities and also console limits due to hardward and the same software parameters. Now whilst a good number of people on this thread have issues they would like to see resolved, they do seem to understand what those parameters are and I have no problem with that.

You don't have to agree, but as a mod surely you've seen a lot of people who appear to have no idea about what they are talking when it comes to these grievances. For clarity, it was those people I was refering to.

And in no way did you differentiate between those two groups when you posted, rather you simply lumped them in together.

You will find that the rabid in either party don't survive as members long (add can be seen yesterday), and as such it would be far better to clearly differentiate when you post. Particularly as the vast majority who are critical off the current state of GT and PD are doing so via valid and realistic issues.

 

[MeanElf]

And in no way did you differentiate between those two groups when you posted, rather you simply lumped them in together.

You will find that the rabid in either party don't survive as members long (add can be seen yesterday), and as such it would be far better to clearly differentiate when you post. Particularly as the vast majority who are critical off the current state of GT and PD are doing so via valid and realistic issues.

I thought it was quite clear that two types were being discussed. That's okay though, I think I've had enough of this forum.

Feel free to ban away...

 

[napalmhardcore]

Holy reading between the lines Batman!

C'mon Scaff, where did I 'basically accuse them of being spoilt' - I did say the other thing and that was the point. I have learned a lot from this forum about software and gaming practicalities and also console limits due to hardward and the same software parameters. Now whilst a good number of people on this thread have issues they would like to see resolved, they do seem to understand what those parameters are and I have no problem with that.

You don't have to agree, but as a mod surely you've seen a lot of people who appear to have no idea about what they are talking when it comes to these grievances. For clarity, it was those people I was refering to.

One of two things could be extracted from your statement. You were either calling people spoilt or you were calling people ignorant/too stupid to realise that there are challenges and work involved in game development. If anything Scaff gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were calling people spoilt.

Fair enough, I have seen many unrealistic expectations for the series in my time, but not in the last few pages of this thread. Also the statement which you were supporting was arguing against valid gripes.

 

[Scaff]

I thought it was quite clear that two types were being discussed. That's okay though, I think I've had enough of this forum.

It wasn't even remotely clear and you had also just aligned yourself with (a now ex) member who's sole reason for posting was to troll.

Feel free to ban away...

What!

Toys back in pram please.

If this was infraction worthy then we would be having this conversation via PM, not publicly. Your post was not clear and you chose to align yourself with a member who's posting was never going to see them last long, I politely pointed this out to you in a manner than has no bearing on your membership status. The smart ting to do would be to acknowledge that and move on,not to challenge it.

 

[ShiftingGears]

If they do add a storefront they'll have to make stuff rarer.

I have 810 cars including all sorts of "rare" cars and stuff. I want a sense of mystery all over again like in GT3.

I really don't enjoy having to luck into acquiring cars I actually want to drive. It's a tired format for me, and the GT5 Used Car Dealership was the worst out of any GT game.

I would not support a storefront if PD felt they had to restrict availability of game content to justify its inclusion as a feature. That would defeat the purpose of a new feature.

 

[napalmhardcore]

I really don't enjoy having to luck into acquiring cars I actually want to drive. It's a tired format for me, and the GT5 Used Car Dealership was the worst out of any GT game.

I would not support a storefront if PD felt they had to restrict availability of game content to justify its inclusion as a feature. That would defeat the purpose of a new feature.

I wouldn't mind the used car dealership so much if you could request an alert for when a particular car becomes available. I cannot remember which car it was (I think it was either a Monaro or a Caterham) but having to check the used car dealership constantly became tiresome.

 

[shved111]

I think that in gt5 and gt6 engine sound bad, because Polyphony, inconvenienced by legacy of the 700 standards. With standard cars in gt7 have to leave, so there is no point in recording the engine sound for standard cars. Polyphony could do in 5 years high quality sound recording engine for 250 premium cars, this is real. But to record sounds of engines for 1100 cars, 700 of which will go into the trash, not the wisest decision, and besides, it would take a lot of time and money.

And to make a game in which 250 cars have a modern sound, and the remaining 700 have a bad sound of the engines is obviously not an option for polyphonic and they made a bad sound for all cars. Scold me, but I am sure that in the GT was never sounds recorded from real cars, only synthetic computer simulation of the real sound

 

[amar212]

... but I am sure that in the GT was never sounds recorded from real cars, only synthetic computer simulation of the real sound

Well, you are sure wrong.

Even for GT and GT2 the sound of cars was recorded from the real engines.

Quote from GT2 development article:

Real Engines
In order to enhance the all round feeling of real life cars and accurate driving styles, Gran Turismo 2 features all the real sounds from the best cars in Europe.
The famous Donnington Race Track in the UK opened its doors to more than 100 European cars in an exclusive recording event for PlayStation. Members of the Japanese developer team, Polyphony Digital Inc, spent 3 days recording each and every engine in the game.
The final result is an exhilarating thrill, encompassing each car's unique sound and bombarding your senses. Additional recording took place at both the Lotus and TVR factories (as well as tracks in the US and Japan), completing the all-star line up.

You can also see (and hear) the sound-recording procedure(s) in the Gran Turismo Attack DVD (only available in Japan), a special documentary film that covered development of GT3 in 2001.

Same goes for bonus-DVD released for GT4rologue Special Edition release.

There is a great story about sound recording in special Gran Turismo 4 book available in Limited series (Zer0 probably have some scans), as well as in GT5's Apex book that was part of the Collector's Editions of GT5.

And of course, you probably think that start-up sound for every car - when exchanged in GT5 - was never recorded from the real engines, yes?

Naturally, I also share the sentiment of actual in-game engine sounds in GT series not being accurate representations of their real-life counterparts, but that have nothing to do with the fact how PD actually did record sounds for probably thousands and thousands of cars in past 15 years.

The question why they do not use those sounds during gameplay is totally another question and unfortunately, noone probably knows that besides PS themselves.

 

[shved111]

Well, you are sure wrong.

Even for GT and GT2 the sound of cars was recorded from the real engines.

Quote from GT2 development article:



You can also see (and hear) the sound-recording procedure(s) in the Gran Turismo Attack DVD (only available in Japan), a special documentary film that covered development of GT3 in 2001.

Same goes for bonus-DVD released for GT4rologue Special Edition release.

There is a great story about sound recording in special Gran Turismo 4 book available in Limited series (Zer0 probably have some scans), as well as in GT5's Apex book that was part of the Collector's Editions of GT5.

And of course, you probably think that start-up sound for every car - when exchanged in GT5 - was never recorded from the real engines, yes?

Naturally, I also share the sentiment of actual in-game engine sounds in GT series not being accurate representations of their real-life counterparts, but that have nothing to do with the fact how PD actually did record sounds for probably thousands and thousands of cars in past 15 years.

The question why they do not use those sounds during gameplay is totally another question and unfortunately, noone probably knows that besides PS themselves.

Of course the sound of start, the engine on the menu is authentic. But I doubt that the sound of the engine during the race is authentic.I saw an old video GT2 times in which PD recorded sound from what is a concept car, it seems it was a Vector.

"But I think they record the sound of a real car, not in order to insert it into the game, but in order to take a sample of the sound. The sample sound not order to, insert it into the game, but to make this model a synthesized virtual soundtrack, vaguely similar to the original sound. Why can not insert the original sound of the race?

The problem is, I think polyphonic, using a simple circuit audio recording, without fixing the engine speed, with no sound, the speed change, and so. Because they do not use complex and expensive method of recording sound clip speed and etc.

 

[avens]

Naturally, I also share the sentiment of actual in-game engine sounds in GT series not being accurate representations of their real-life counterparts, but that have nothing to do with the fact how PD actually did record sounds for probably thousands and thousands of cars in past 15 years.

The question why they do not use those sounds during gameplay is totally another question and unfortunately, noone probably knows that besides PS themselves.

People have reported that the cars don't sound great in high rpms, which I believe could be due that PD might not record cars at full throttle, and pretty obviously the recording techniques are better nowadays than they were 10 or 5 years ago, which will lead to a subcategory of 'more premium sounding' cars than other 'premiums'.

Just to be clear, my first explanation of the issue is my speculation but would be consistent with the fact engine starts sound much better than in-game sounds, and on the latter I remember people criticizing PD's current recording methods (after GT5) compared to Turn10's.

Well, the expert on this forum could further explain both -Griffith500-, which are related to recording samples instead of their usage, that is a separate issue on its own.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Setting up a storefront to simply buy paint chips seems hardly worth the effort though.

Quite... though it could be used to house tuning setups, at which point PD could implement a locking system to bar those who purchase them from seeing what exactly another member did, and stop re-selling.

If they do add a storefront they'll have to make stuff rarer.

I have 810 cars including all sorts of "rare" cars and stuff. I want a sense of mystery all over again like in GT3.

Nothing has to be rarer; the storefront in FM4 works fine with all cars being able to be purchased from day one in the normal career. The rarity aspect is then left entirely to the community; you decide if a car/tune/design is worth it or not, while the seller sets whatever price they think is reasonable. The storefront (and auction house) are always full of things to buy, and it can provide an entirely new method for gaining credits in the game - I know I've bought a few cars solely from livery earnings!

True, some of those things have been mooted for discussion and despite some of them now having acceptance from PD the complaints still go on and often in a way that is far from positive by people who don't seem to understand the fundamentals of how a game is made. Okay, I don't know how to make a game myself, but I do know it's not waving a magic wand. I think it's that kind of approach that's the key to differentiating between discussion or wishes and whining.

If you don't know how to make a game, how can you criticize others' ideas of how it's done?

Nobody is suggesting a simple wand-waving will fix the issues in GT5 - at least, nobody being reasonable. The thing is, a lot of fixes really don't need a whole lot of time - they just require a different approach. The troll that helpfully provided this list:

Better engine sounds
Full 60fps
Improved online
No ucd
No standard cars
Improved physics
Better customisation
The 30 something Mazda roadster collection streamlined (and other duplicates)
Some sort of storefront like forza
Free roam
Better gt mode

Got the vast majority of the most common complaints. So many other games have better car sounds, though GT has a better, more complicated sound engine, so perhaps that's why so many of us are frustrated with the awful sounds of cars like the C6 RM's. A full 60fps that doesn't dip by 50% or so is not an unreasonable request, and it's PD's decision to sacrifice a steady frame-rate. If he meant improved online functionality and options, it appears PD's already on that. I can understand the arguments both for and against a UCD - it's a GT staple to have a used car lot, but GT5's was handled so poorly - but at the very least, I think every car in the game should be available to drive in Arcade Mode. That wouldn't be hard to implement.

I've said more than enough on Standards over the years, but removing them definitely wouldn't cost a lot of time! IMO one of the worst wastes of time will be actually working on them any more; they are dead assets that require fresh-slate replacements built with contemporary standards in mind.

Physics? PD's heading in the right direction by getting the pros (an actual tire company) involved. It's a shame we didn't seem to get a taste of it in the GTA demo, but we're being assured there will be a new tire model in place in the retail game. We've also been told there's better customization, though we've yet to see any of it, and there are likely to be some limitations in place on Standards based on their makeup. There's no signs of the duplication love dissipating, which is sad. A storefront I actually don't hold over PD so much as Sony; their network system is probably just not as robust as XBL, and a functioning storefront/auction house in GT6, given the series' userbase size, would require massive amounts of server resources. Free roam? I'm nonplussed by its absence - a spin-off game would work best, IMO - but that one would take a legitimate amount of time to create. A better GT Mode requires very little time; you're creating events, not modelling anything. Adding qualifying back in wouldn't take too much either.

 

[shved111]

By the way if you are in the race, stop the car, the sound of the engine idle speed is realistic. Because this is a recording of a real car.
Maybe this is the record sounds PD? Perhaps for this they come into the garage and look for a real car for the record
*Take in GT5 Cobra 427 or what some other car, the engine idle speed is the real sound of the engine Cobras recorded by the microphone.
But as soon as your car will go, the sound is completely different, not natural sound...

 

[Zer0]

There is a great story about sound recording in special Gran Turismo 4 book available in Limited series (Zer0 probably have some scans),

Yup.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

"Such is the precision that a sharp-eared driver can easily identify each make and model purely from the sound of the engine."

Strange, I had no idea that the Chevy Blazer was in GT. Nor that every modern Lambo sounds identical.

It's too bad so much of GT's marketing-speak is taken as anything more than that.

 

[ImmalovemaGTR]

Yup.

What book is that
Where do I get it