The GT7 "non-wish" list

[Samus]

I don't think it's particularly wild to think Lewis Hamilton would find it a waste of time having to do events that teach the user how the pedals and wheel works in a car. I kinda think he probably knows, as surely do most people buying a racing game.

In fact I'd love to know how many GTS players actually got something out of those first three tests. It can't be many, even 7 year olds surely know how cars work.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well yeah being more popular than GT6 (well we didn't get exact number of GTS sales iirc, I know they mentioned how many playerbase like 9.5 million and Wikipedia uses that number in their sale list, but some argues that number of playerbase isn't the same as sales number) isn't that of a big task. GT5 also had the 2nd most sales compared to other GT behind GT3, but GT5's reception is mediocre among GT series

Twist it any way you want, it changes nothing really.

This is a much better example about how a change in direction can severely hamper the reputation AND sales of a franchise.

which still isn’t relevant to GT, or even the examples you brought up for NFS considering they’ve had no issues with changing directions already. Forza also completely changed directions when they branched off to Horizon, and now it’s way more popular than the original series, by a long shot.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

As for the event from a list format, because I like that format. It's simple and direct, I don't have to worry about some nonsense like a story getting in my way of getting to the gameplay. I can just pick the event, read the restrictions, then just jump into the race I'm choosing. I've tried other career mode structures and I have to be honest, I still find it more fun to play through the structure GT has.

I wanted to add something to my initial opinion here. Another reason that I've been happy with the list format for each game as I never felt that it was souless. I felt soul in each list, because Polyphony presented the event lists so well imo. They gave each race type a name and theme, plus a nice jazzy song that suited the menus. Hearing Isamu Ohira's Slipstream song in the background of Gran Turismo 3's race menus coupled with the fun posters made for each event made me felt hyped every time. I got a similar experience when play the other titles in the series, there was just some simple satisfaction seeing the races advertised like an actual race event. I didn't feel the need for anything else.

 

[Dave A]

I don't think it's particularly wild to think Lewis Hamilton would find it a waste of time having to do events that teach the user how the pedals and wheel works in a car. I kinda think he probably knows, as surely do most people buying a racing game.

In fact I'd love to know how many GTS players actually got something out of those first three tests. It can't be many, even 7 year olds surely know how cars work.

Perhaps, it's certainly hard to learn anything new in thse tests. That doesn't mean there's no enjoyment to be had in trying to get the gold times, which goes beyond how the pedals work etc. and play more into mastering the "test" through reactions and precision. But it can definitely be tedious at times and for certain people maybe most of the time, I get that.

Personally, I wouldn't be against the license format being re-done ina way that you progress to unlocking higher licences through experience or something that can happen more naturally. But I would keep the traditional tests in the game, I'd just re-brand them into an optional extra, maybe an expanded mission hall type feature from GT4.

 

[Samus]

Perhaps, it's certainly hard to learn anything new in thse tests. That doesn't mean there's no enjoyment to be had in trying to get the gold times, which goes beyond how the pedals work etc.

I was talking purely about the first tests in GTS that do indeed just teach you what the pedals and wheel does. Not all of them.

The first one you just press the throttle in a straight line.
The second one you steer through a very slight slalom
The third one is a slightly tighter slalom.
The fourth one you drive 100m and press the brakes.

 

[Nigrick]

One case in point is Need For Speed Most Wanted from 2012. Many people who've played this game will tell you that it's one of the worst NFS games out there. Especially when compared to the original Most Wanted from 2005. Why? It didn't stay true to the essence of the game.

Funny you mentioned NFS MW 2012, because it's one of my favourite NFS of all time! Which only proves the point that changes could be a good thing and actually needed in order to move forward. I wouldn't worry about damaging gran turismo DNA, as long as Kaz is the man behind it. His vision and approach to game design are what makes gran turismo the game we love, in my opinion.

 

[Minivan]

No more random historical facts, no more Spice Girls or USA for Africa. This is so out of place and brings nothing from an historical point of view

I agree that some of the facts is completely random and out of place, but the idea is pretty brilliant IMO.

actually, I liked to see Bob Dylan in there

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I think for historical facts, that could be fixed by making it an option. Perhaps used for the loading screens as something to keep players occupied while waiting.

 

[HarVee]

I was talking purely about the first tests in GTS that do indeed just teach you what the pedals and wheel does. Not all of them.

The first one you just press the throttle in a straight line.
The second one you steer through a very slight slalom
The third one is a slightly tighter slalom.
The fourth one you drive 100m and press the brakes.

The fourth one is useful to learn the scaling of the game, and how to adjust braking zones accordingly to both scaling and car speed. There's bit more too it underneath than just driving 100m and slamming the brakes.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Twist it any way you want, it changes nothing really.

which still isn’t relevant to GT, or even the examples you brought up for NFS considering they’ve had no issues with changing directions already. Forza also completely changed directions when they branched off to Horizon, and now it’s way more popular than the original series, by a long shot.

Funny you mentioned NFS MW 2012, because it's one of my favourite NFS of all time! Which only proves the point that changes could be a good thing and actually needed in order to move forward. I wouldn't worry about damaging gran turismo DNA, as long as Kaz is the man behind it. His vision and approach to game design are what makes gran turismo the game we love, in my opinion.

Hmmm it seems that we have contrasting ideas about what a video game franchise should be. See I'm of the belief that "to know where you're going, you need to know where you've been". I don't think a franchise should make seismic shifts with no respect to it's past, but that's just me. You see I was delighted when NFS 2015 came out because it felt like a return to the Black Box era. That's what defines an NFS game in my opinion. YOU may not share the same philosophy and I don't have a problem with that. What I believe will not determine the overall success of a game, it simply dictates what I buy, what I enjoy and what I expect.

 

[Samus]

With a series like NFS it has changed so many times I don't really see how you could say it has one strong identity. Which is not automatically a bad thing either, IMO.

 

[o000o]

I don't think it's particularly wild to think Lewis Hamilton would find it a waste of time having to do events that teach the user how the pedals and wheel works in a car. I kinda think he probably knows, as surely do most people buying a racing game.

In fact I'd love to know how many GTS players actually got something out of those first three tests. It can't be many, even 7 year olds surely know how cars work.

Based on what? Because it's the mindset you have so someone in motorsport and one of the most accomplished figure there should have the same mindset, the Maestro of GTS himself? Why should anyone share your mindset (until someone in forum reveals they have different ones)? And he himself takes part of the teaching that would take beginners into account too.

Hmmm it seems that we have contrasting ideas about what a video game franchise should be. See I'm of the belief that "to know where you're going, you need to know where you've been". I don't think a franchise should make seismic shifts with no respect to it's past, but that's just me. You see I was delighted when NFS 2015 came out because it felt like a return to the Black Box era. That's what defines an NFS game in my opinion. YOU may not share the same philosophy and I don't have a problem with that. What I believe will not determine the overall success of a game, it simply dictates what I buy, what I enjoy and what I expect.

For you to be happy about going back to Black Box era, reminder that the Black Box era was a change too y'know. The old school, original NFS was about collecting a few cool supercars and driving them in wide landscapes. The newest old school era was the likes of Hot Pursuit 2010 (which was well, a remake like NFS 2012, to NFS III: Hot Pursuit and NFS Hot Pursuit II).

 

[Samus]

Based on what? Because it's the mindset you have so someone in motorsport and one of the most accomplished figure there should have the same mindset, the Maestro of GTS himself? Why should anyone share your mindset (until someone in forum reveals they have different ones)? And he himself takes part of the teaching that would take beginners into account too.


For you to be happy about going back to Black Box era, reminder that the Black Box era was a change too y'know. The old school, original NFS was about collecting a few cool supercars and driving them in wide landscapes. The newest old school era was the likes of Hot Pursuit 2010 (which was well, a remake like NFS 2012, to NFS III: Hot Pursuit and NFS Hot Pursuit II).

Did you get anything out of those first four tests? I certainly didn't, so I don't see how any professional racing driver would. I don't see what his own time trials set at blistering speed have to do with it.

 

[o000o]

This just sums up my biggest issue with this kind of game design. When certain parts of the game are nothing more than road blocks on the way to actually playing the game, those parts could do with some change.

It depends on the individual, stop generalizing. You can't dictate "the way to actually playing the game" and it can be bareboned for some if there's only 1 thing people can do in the game (not talking about Licenses, but the other features) that players force the game to be only about that. More choices are good and if it doesn't suit your tastes can ignore entirely (well yeah the good way to provide those choices is not making it mandatory).

Did you get anything out of those first four tests? I certainly didn't, so I don't see how any professional racing driver would. I don't see what his own time trials set at blistering speed have to do with it.

I mean those professional racing drivers likely wouldn't get anything, but take into account for the others. My point was that Hamilton didn't only set up the records for the time trial, but is also an in-game driving instructor which provides insight, tips and tuition. So by that he likely doesn't expect all the GTS players to be veterans, or the game should be for them only, and can likely think that those tests are for those kind of players. I know your other point were not treating everyone as beginners, and I also wish for a way to skip those but without removing the feature, where GT did it in PS1 and PS2 era (at least GT7 should have Data Transfer from GTS). but what I'm saying here is regarding Hamilton to not assume him as exactly the same to yours.

 

[Techlet]

It depends on the individual, stop generalizing. You can't dictate "the way to actually playing the game"

Of course I can dictate the way I actually want to play a game, hence "my biggest issue".

 

[o000o]

Of course I can dictate the way I actually want to play a game, hence "my biggest issue".

I mean you dictating others how they play the game.

 

[Techlet]

Then you've clearly misinterpreted what I said.

 

[Samus]

and can likely think that those tests are for those kind of players. I know your other point were not treating everyone as beginners,

That was my sole point. Don't force me, or Lewis Hamilton, or anyone who knows how a car works to do basic exercises to be able to unlock more advanced ones.

I'm sure Lewis would deduce they're for absolute beginners, doesn't mean he would have felt he got anything out of them himself being forced to do them. Which was what I was getting at.

 

[ScottPuss20]

That was my sole point. Don't force me, or Lewis Hamilton, or anyone who knows how a car works to do basic exercises to be able to unlock more advanced ones.

I'm sure Lewis would deduce they're for absolute beginners, doesn't mean he would have felt he got anything out of them himself being forced to do them.

The tests were helpful for 7 year old me who didn't have a great understanding of car physics and handling, but now they seem pathetic. Most people who play GT have most likely played a previous title or invested some time in racing games. They are not beginners. I'm not saying PD should alienate the beginners but the more advanced drivers shouldn't have to do basic tests.

 

[Samus]

The tests were helpful for 7 year old me who didn't have a great understanding of car physics and handling, but now they seem pathetic. Most people who play GT have most likely played a previous title or invested some time in racing games. They are not beginners. I'm not saying PD should alienate the beginners but the more advanced drivers shouldn't have to do basic tests.

Indeed, the option to skip over them is all I'm asking. Not remove the beginner stuff entirely, just stop treating everyone as if they're beginners playing their first racing game. I don't need to do beginner license tests, I don't need beginner only events. Other people do. Let us choose.

 

[05XR8]

I'd also like to choose my first car. If anything, the Etiquette videos gift us the kart. Using that, would be a good way to earn money for a first car. Rather than being gifted an STI or Genesis Coupe.

Anyway, past GTs gifted us some loose change, to decide which car we'd like to purchase.

 

[o000o]

The tests were helpful for 7 year old me who didn't have a great understanding of car physics and handling, but now they seem pathetic. Most people who play GT have most likely played a previous title or invested some time in racing games. They are not beginners. I'm not saying PD should alienate the beginners but the more advanced drivers shouldn't have to do basic tests.

Indeed, the option to skip over them is all I'm asking. Not remove the beginner stuff entirely, just stop treating everyone as if they're beginners playing their first racing game. I don't need to do beginner license tests, I don't need beginner only events. Other people do. Let us choose.

And PD did do that in the past with Data Transfer on PS1 and PS2. At least with one GTS account they should implement this on GT7 without problem.

I'd also like to choose my first car. If anything, the Etiquette videos gift us the kart. Using that, would be a good way to earn money for a first car. Rather than being gifted an STI or Genesis Coupe.

Anyway, past GTs gifted us some loose change, to decide which car we'd like to purchase.

Yeah, IMO one of GT's appeal (and this is an old one, hope you won't label this as someone wearing nostalgia filter) is the free and wide choice of your first car. Not even Forza did that where Forza 4 also give few and forced choices between like 5 cars. Though this would also conflict with those who have no time to play games (well, I feel like any in-depth features will be detrimental to those who don't have time to play games).

 

[Samus]

And PD did do that in the past with Data Transfer on PS1 and PS2. At least with one GTS account they should implement this on GT7 without problem.

That's not the way to do it though. What about people who aren't beginners but also didn't buy GTS, or who deleted their save for some reason? They shouldn't be forced into it either, it needs to be an in-game choice for everyone. Quite a few games have done this, not just in the racing genre. You give people some text based selections at the very start "I'm a beginner, I'd like it easy" etc, then they can also tweak the actual in-game settings afterwards.

As for the driving tests or licenses that would be easy, just unlock the first one at every level so people can start where they want. If they start with the hardest tests and pass them, they automatically pass the easier ones they skipped and get any license/reward, and can still go back and do the actual tests if they want to for some reason.

If it turns out most people do enter at the highest level and still breeze through, well that would tell PD just exactly how useful those easier tests are at all. But hopefully they would return to making the hardest tests actually hard.

 

[05XR8]

I think there was a test in GT1 or GT2, instructions were given to drive the GT-One at speed in a series of corners.
Explaining how high downforce works best, the faster such cars go.
That's more like a mission, but it's instructions like that, are useful in racing games.

Can't remember if GTS came with instructions on the inner cover. There's a digital instruction manual on how to use steering brake, etc. That info is also in the game settings.
What I'm getting at, when learning to drive. I'm talking instructed by a parent, guardian, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, friend... after seatbelts, we are first shown where the key goes into the ignition. We get shown where the brake and accelerator are and clutch, if so equipped. Gear lever, signals.
When I initially start GTS, I'm given non of that. I do receive my first car though.

I then have to figure out what I want to do next. Arcade allows me to race AI. I can choose Campaign to learn about driving and attempt missions. Sport lets me dive in online racing. I don't have to do any licence tests whatsoever.

If GT7 is going to be someone's first taste of the GT franchise, it's fine for those players to get guidance. However, someone who has played every GT game, there should be an attempt to spice up the entry level aspect of the game.

 

[Dave A]

That's not the way to do it though. What about people who aren't beginners but also didn't buy GTS, or who deleted their save for some reason? They shouldn't be forced into it either, it needs to be an in-game choice for everyone. Quite a few games have done this, not just in the racing genre. You give people some text based selections at the very start "I'm a beginner, I'd like it easy" etc, then they can also tweak the actual in-game settings afterwards.

As for the driving tests or licenses that would be easy, just unlock the first one at every level so people can start where they want. If they start with the hardest tests and pass them, they automatically pass the easier ones they skipped and get any license/reward, and can still go back and do the actual tests if they want to for some reason.

If it turns out most people do enter at the highest level and still breeze through, well that would tell PD just exactly how useful those easier tests are at all. But hopefully they would return to making the hardest tests actually hard.

I think when you start the game for the firt time they could easilly ask you if you want to take part in a driving tutorial and if you select yes then they give you those basic initial tests, try to accelerate, try to brake and stop in this zone and so on. It wouldn't need to be lengthy, maybe have a couple of different types of car represented for variety but just a basic tutorial of how to drive a car. Having the option to skip past that entirely removes the problem for those who find those tests tedious.

 

[Lee x sensai]

I think having in depth licenses test is good idea to teach people how to drive their car. Most of the time online racing their a lot casual player or new player don’t how know to drive on the track and they don’t respect other player at the sametime. With the idea having in depth lesson it will increase the chance creating better driver for this community. Also teaching people have to setup their car too to suit their driving style is another good idea since most that buying racing game that are casual tend not to know to make car feel fit for them.

 

[Samus]

License tests in the past have never taught race craft though. In fact quite the opposite as many tests encourage and force you to overtake in a short section of track no matter what, or how.

That's why I think it would be better to earn them on the track, so if you are ramming people and generally driving badly, you won't earn your next license. People will soon learn.

 

[HarVee]

I like the concept of that actually. Earn them while racing... Perhaps a points system for it. You drive clean and safe you get points that earn towards your next license. You get a license and you can enter the next tier of campaign events. Perhaps get rid of the ruby, diamond etc. driver rankings and replace them with this system.

 

[05XR8]

The Circuit Experience is probably the best way to learn. In the same way a person learns to drive a real car on real streets. Learning on the track by doing a lap, works wonders. Bring back the Skyline Pace Car or use the various safety cars in GTS.

Crown Safety car for Beginners through AMG GT Safety Car for Professionals. Players follow each safety car to learn when to brake at each circuit. If tutorials are activated, the game could pause and explain in short, how and where to place the car. Even activating all driving aids could auto-brake for players.
For new circuits to the franchise, meaning circuits no player has ever tried in a GT game, maybe a more high powered car like a P1 GTR Safety Car can be used for more advanced players. This allows varying skill levelled players an optional experience to earn licences.

I think the Main Menu controls provide enough info of where the brakes and accelerator are. Many players need to learn when to apply brakes and when it's best to begin accelerating. Add AI cars with the Safety Car, to show players when it's safe to overtake. To notice signs of when the apex is becoming too shallow for a safe pass. It's basic excercises for beginning players.

I feel it's more educational and less taxing a guide, than to leave players at "press accelerator and press brake", in a scenario that doesn't replicate what all players will be doing: actual racing.

 

[o000o]

The Circuit Experience is probably the best way to learn. In the same way a person learns to drive a real car on real streets. Learning on the track by doing a lap, works wonders. Bring back the Skyline Pace Car or use the various safety cars in GTS.

Crown Safety car for Beginners through AMG GT Safety Car for Professionals. Players follow each safety car to learn when to brake at each circuit. If tutorials are activated, the game could pause and explain in short, how and where to place the car. Even activating all driving aids could auto-brake for players.
For new circuits to the franchise, meaning circuits no player has ever tried in a GT game, maybe a more high powered car like a P1 GTR Safety Car can be used for more advanced players. This allows varying skill levelled players an optional experience to earn licences.

I think the Main Menu controls provide enough info of where the brakes and accelerator are. Many players need to learn when to apply brakes and when it's best to begin accelerating. Add AI cars with the Safety Car, to show players when it's safe to overtake. To notice signs of when the apex is becoming too shallow for a safe pass. It's basic excercises for beginning players.

I feel it's more educational and less taxing a guide, than to leave players at "press accelerator and press brake", in a scenario that doesn't replicate what all players will be doing: actual racing.

I don't know if this is accomplishable, but I kinda want Circuit Experience to be integrated as the game's (like campaign or online mode's) Practice Mode, but it can still be accessed on its own still like GTS (and the GT7 trailer already show). And by that I would want for Circuit Experience to allow any cars to be used there.

And this is the part that I think they won't be able to do, the clock for Gold, Silver, and Bronze each is determined by the performance of the car you use. Depending on the company/technology's capabilities:

• For easier task (but more flawed), the clock is determined on the car's PP.
• And for harder task, each of the car's stat takes part in determining the clock (top speed, acceleration, cornering, etc.), and the track itself will also determine which stat is the best of that track (like top speed for tracks with more straight lines, and thus top speed of that car influences more of the clock).