The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Blitz24]

Once again, it turns out that if the Republicans are ginning up fear about the Democrats doing something illegal, it actually means they're doing it:

Wait, are they setting up the unofficial boxes to get more votes, or have votes thrown out? (Sort of like "insert ballots here to have them not counted".)

 

[huskeR32]

Wait, are they setting up the unofficial boxes to get more votes, or have votes thrown out? (Sort of like "insert ballots here to have them not counted".)

To get more votes. They're doing what they've always referred to as "vote harvesting" when they've accused Democrats of doing it.

 

[jjaisli]

My wife and I received our ballots in the mail last week, here in NJ. Ironically, our town was one of two in the country that didn't have a ballot box set up. They finally installed it on Saturday, bolted to the ground, literally right outside the doors of the police station. We felt a bit safer dropping them off, in person, at the box rather than either putting them in the mail or voting in person. I'm glad it's done and done early.

 

[Blitz24]

My wife and I received our ballots in the mail last week, here in NJ. Ironically, our town was one of two in the country that didn't have a ballot box set up. They finally installed it on Saturday, bolted to the ground, literally right outside the doors of the police station. We felt a bit safer dropping them off, in person, at the box rather than either putting them in the mail or voting in person. I'm glad it's done and done early.

I got mine about 2 weeks ago and I plan on dropping it off in the next week or so.

 

[Joey D]

The states that have ballots mailed to all voters have some of the highest turnouts in the nation (not the highest 5 interestingly). But Utah is stinking the place up coming in 2nd to last in voter turnout ahead of only Hawaii (which also mails ballots to everyone).

I think part of the problem is that a percentage of voters in Utah simply don't think their vote matters. When it comes to state issues, a Mormon Republican is going to always win outside of Salt Lake County. In Salt Lake County, it's a toss-up, but it's going to be Mormon almost 99% of the time whether they're red or blue. If you're a non-Mormon Democrat, you look at your options and they don't exactly speak to you. Couple all this with the whole "I'm not voting third party because they don't get votes" paradox and you have people who choose just not to vote.

I know if I wasn't so pro-third party, I probably wouldn't vote since it really wouldn't matter. Something like 85% of the state is Mormon and, whether we like to admit it or not, Utah is a theocracy. The LDS Church strongly suggests who to vote for and most of the members just comply. It's part of the reason Evan McMullin got so many votes last time. Mormons despise Trump since he represents everything the religion supposedly doesn't. Evan McMullin is a "good" Mormon though and represented the ideals of the religion, so it was suggested by several bishops to vote for him. This led to him getting something like 30% of the state's vote in 2016.

It's all really weird and even though I've been here for 4 years, I still have a hard time getting used to the way things work.

The good thing is this will change over the next decade. With the influx of people moving to Utah from other states, it's dismantling the theocracy aspect. Really I'd just happy if we stripped all the laws out that were put in place because of this LDS Church...I'm looking at you not-real beer...and quit electing people solely based on their religion.

 

[McLaren]

Judge shot down Abbott's order.

And it's now been successfully appealed.

Texas restrictions allowing only a single drop-box for mail-in ballots in each county were reinstated by a federal appeals court that said the governor’s concerns about ballot security outweigh voting-rights activists’ worries that millions of voters won’t be able to safely access the drop-box.

The three-judge appellate panel -- all appointed by President Donald Trump -- accepted Abbott’s claim that multiple drop boxes create opportunities for voter fraud, although the state presented no evidence such fraud exists. The judges said no proof of actual voter fraud was necessary to justify the state’s protective measures.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-box-restrictions-reinstated-by-appeals-court

All judges appointed by Trump? No proof is necessary? Corrupt as it gets in Texas, esp. with Paxton involved.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

All judges appointed by Trump? No proof is necessary? Corrupt as it gets in Texas, esp. with Paxton involved.

And just like that, another conspiracy theory is passed on.

 

[UKMikey]

It's hardly QAnon level. Especially when the assertion is backed by the facts in the Bloomberg article.

 

[Tornado]

It can't be corrupt because Trump is involved and he's too smart to be corrupt.

 

[UKMikey]

Plus he's honest and good and would never cheat for political gain. He's not like those baby-eating socialist celebs. Everyone knows they're satanists.

 

[Famine]

While it seems like Republicans in Republican state Texas, with the help of Republican-appointed federal judges, is trying to limit access to ballot boxes, Republicans in Democrat state California are doing the exact opposite...

... by leaving illegal fake ballot boxes labelled as "Official Ballot Drop Off Box" around.


If you were looking in at this from the outside - say, if this was happening in Iran, or a former Eastern Bloc state - would you not conclude that this is simply fraudulent activity from a dictatorial regime looking to bypass democracy? Why would other countries looking in at the USA from the outside not also conclude this of the USA? Why would Americans not conclude this of their own government too?

 

[MatskiMonk]

So, a simple question... if these people want to attend a mail-in drop off box to vote, how's that really any different to turning up to vote in person (for which I assume there are many, many more ballot boxes)?

 

[Liquid]

If you were looking in at this from the outside - say, if this was happening in Iran, or a former Eastern Bloc state - would you not conclude that this is simply fraudulent activity from a dictatorial regime looking to bypass democracy?

Yes.

 

[Blitz24]

So, a simple question... if these people want to attend a mail-in drop off box to vote, how's that really any different to turning up to vote in person (for which I assume there are many, many more ballot boxes)?

Ballot drop-off box requires no human interaction. You literally just fill out your ballot, seal it properly and put it in the drop slot. In-person voting requires (at least in my state) for one to wait on line, verify your signature in a booklet, take a small tear off slip, go into the voting booth, select your candidates/propositions, hand the slip back to the volunteer, and leave.

 

[Imari]

And just like that, another conspiracy theory is passed on.

Is "conspiracy theory" really the appropriate description for a logical and reasonable interpretation of a set of widely available facts?

I mean, it could be the case that the appeals court truly thought that decision was in the best legal interest of the state, but it's not exactly pants-on-head level bonkers to suggest that maybe these people were all acting in the interest of the person who gave them power less than four years ago. It's more like "reasonable hypothesis" than conspiracy.

While it seems like Republicans in Republican state Texas, with the help of Republican-appointed federal judges, is trying to limit access to ballot boxes, Republicans in Democrat state California are doing the exact opposite...

... by leaving illegal fake ballot boxes labelled as "Official Ballot Drop Off Box" around.

That's pretty scary. That feels like something that should be very, very illegal and that should get smacked down really hard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/us/politics/california-gop-drop-boxes.html

Oh right, the official party has admitted responsibility and will continue even in the face of the state saying that it's illegal.

What do you think of this, @Chrunch Houston ? You can condemn specific actions of your party while still thinking that they're overall the best choice to run the country, and this seems like exactly the sort of specifically undemocratic thing that nobody should be supporting. It's not an us vs. them thing, it's a "we'd like a country where elections are actually a meaningful reflection of the will of the people" thing. I'm no expert as I'm a filthy Ocker, but it seems like something the US Constitution is pretty clear about.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Ballot drop-off box requires no human interaction. You literally just fill out your ballot, seal it properly and put it in the drop slot. In-person voting requires (at least in my state) for one to wait on line, verify your signature in a booklet, take a small tear off slip, go into the voting booth, select your candidates/propositions, hand the slip back to the volunteer, and leave.

Okay that makes sense.

 

[Dotini]

So, a simple question... if these people want to attend a mail-in drop off box to vote, how's that really any different to turning up to vote in person (for which I assume there are many, many more ballot boxes)?

Dropping off or mailing your ballot to a post office is okay, since they will time stamp it. Widely distributed ballot drop-off boxes have no time stamp like the post office does. So they are subject to abuse/fraud by ballots submitted after the election closes.

IMHO, by far the best method of voting is in person to a registrar at an official polling place. It involves more person to person contact, but other than that, it's the most safe and sound.

 

[Biggles]

Dropping off or mailing your ballot to a post office is okay, since they will time stamp it. Widely distributed ballot drop-off boxes have no time stamp like the post office does. So they are subject to abuse/fraud by ballots submitted after the election closes.

IMHO, by far the best method of voting is in person to a registrar at an official polling place. It involves more person to person contact, but other than that, it's the most safe and sound.

Question: why wouldn't the ballots be collected from the box at the designated time/date. Anything submitted after that is not collected? Seems simple. The fundamental problem with voting in the US, as I understand it, is that unlike other countries there is no universal national standard in place & partisan local & state party officials appear to have an inappropriate amount of control over the process.

 

[jjaisli]

IMHO, by far the best method of voting is in person to a registrar at an official polling place. It involves more person to person contact, but other than that, it's the most safe and sound.

Under normal circumstances, I would agree. But in an era where social distancing is a good idea, I can tell you, for example, that here in New Jersey, one can create a profile and log into the division of elections website and you can see when your official ballet was issued, when it was mailed to you and as they are bar coded, you can also see when they were received and processed after dropping it off at an official ballot box.

 

[Danoff]

Widely distributed ballot drop-off boxes have no time stamp like the post office does. So they are subject to abuse/fraud by ballots submitted after the election closes.

This is borderline misinformation.

 

[Joey D]

Dropping off or mailing your ballot to a post office is okay, since they will time stamp it. Widely distributed ballot drop-off boxes have no time stamp like the post office does. So they are subject to abuse/fraud by ballots submitted after the election closes.

We don't have a problem with that in Utah where people drop off or mail in their ballots all the time, for every single election we have. You even get a tracking number for it so you can see if it never made it to the clerk's office. If it doesn't, you can request a new ballot and your previous, presumably misplaced ballot, is voided.

IMHO, by far the best method of voting is in person to a registrar at an official polling place. It involves more person to person contact, but other than that, it's the most safe and sound.

We've had mail-in voting in Utah for years and the instances of fraud are extremely low.

Here's an article about how the process works here: https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/8...president-donald-trump-postal-service-ballots

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It seems that we should have been working on putting the best mail-in system in place in each state, but I know there are other priorities like pointing out how fraudulent the voting may be. This idea may be a tad radical at this time.

 

[Dotini]

I will try to explain my understanding of ballots which are either mailed in or dropped off to a remote box.

A ballot mailed in to a post office will receive an official time stamp upon reception. Thus the ballot will be legible to count even if the ballot envelope is not opened, counted or discovered for hours or even days after the time for voting on election day has expired.

Ballots deposited in a convenient drop-off box should be no problem either - if it can be established that the box was properly sealed and/or taken into the custody of election officials at the expiration of the time allowed for voting on election day.

However, if a drop-off box full of ballots was discovered and secured hours or days after the election, there would be no way to assure the ballots were all placed into the box during the allowed time period. Thus, they would be subject to a legal challenge and quite likely not allowed to count.

 

[Danoff]

I will try to explain my understanding of ballots which are either mailed in or dropped off to a remote box.

A ballot mailed in to a post office will receive an official time stamp upon reception. Thus the ballot will be legible to count even if the ballot envelope is not opened, counted or discovered for hours or even days after the time for voting on election day has expired.

Ballots deposited in a convenient drop-off box should be no problem either - if it can be established that the box was properly sealed and/or taken into the custody of election officials at the expiration of the time allowed for voting on election day.

However, if a drop-off box full of ballots was discovered and secured hours or days after the election, there would be no way to assure the ballots were all placed into the box during the allowed time period. Thus, they would be subject to a legal challenge and quite likely not allowed to count.

This is very different from what you posted before. Drop-off boxes are emptied (and the contents cataloged), in many cases multiple times per day. Election officials are going to adhere to ballot collection times for given drop boxes. If you use a drop box after the final time on election day, that ballot shouldn't get counted (and probably won't be collected prior to counting), just like if you mail a ballot after the deadline or show up to a polling place after the deadline.

Drop box ballots are timestamped, at least in some cases. But probably more likely than individual ballots being timestamped is that the contents are kept together and associated with a specific collection time.

Ballot drop boxes have surveillance cameras around the clock, and ballots collected from drop boxes have a strict chain of custody from the point of collection to counting.

This statement:

Dropping off or mailing your ballot to a post office is okay, since they will time stamp it. Widely distributed ballot drop-off boxes have no time stamp like the post office does.

Is wrong on its face. If you try to twist it, you could construe "like the post office does" in a way that might make it mean something other than its apparent meaning. But basically, this is misinformation.

This statement:

So they are subject to abuse/fraud by ballots submitted after the election closes.

Is also wrong on its face. You could attempt to invent some kind of hypothetical, but it would require improper behavior by the election officials.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I will try to explain my understanding of ballots which are either mailed in or dropped off to a remote box.

A ballot mailed in to a post office will receive an official time stamp upon reception. Thus the ballot will be legible to count even if the ballot envelope is not opened, counted or discovered for hours or even days after the time for voting on election day has expired.

Ballots deposited in a convenient drop-off box should be no problem either - if it can be established that the box was properly sealed and/or taken into the custody of election officials at the expiration of the time allowed for voting on election day.

However, if a drop-off box full of ballots was discovered and secured hours or days after the election, there would be no way to assure the ballots were all placed into the box during the allowed time period. Thus, they would be subject to a legal challenge and quite likely not allowed to count.

*talking points intensify*

 

[ryzno]

However, if a drop-off box full of ballots was discovered and secured hours or days after the election, there would be no way to assure the ballots were all placed into the box during the allowed time period.

Sounds like that box of ballots "found" in an office the Democrats wanted counted recently...

 

[Dotini]

Because of all the novel and potentially troublesome Covid emergency voting methods introduced in many or even most states this year, and also taking into consideration the likelihood of legal challenges from either or both sides, I think it is unlikely to know the electoral college result as early as we traditionally do. There may be a brief or extended period of doubt, confusion or even turmoil immediately following the election. It will be good time to stay calm, cool and steady. Effective deliberate interference by foreign or domestic partisans could also be a factor, but I dearly hope not. When the results are in and known, it will be important to move ahead with as much acceptance and unity as possible.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Because of all the novel and potentially troublesome Covid emergency voting methods introduced in many or even most states this year, and also taking into consideration the likelihood of legal challenges from either or both sides, I think it is unlikely to know the electoral college result as early as we traditionally do. There may be a brief or extended period of doubt, confusion or even turmoil immediately following the election. It will be good time to stay calm, cool and steady. Effective deliberate interference by foreign or domestic partisans could also be a factor, but I dearly hope not. When the results are in and known, it will be important to move ahead with as much acceptance and unity as possible.

This post must have been very hard to write while containing your own laughter.

 

[Dotini]

This post must have been very hard to write while containing your own laughter.

I can assure you I am quite serious. In all my years, I have never seen this nation so riled up and frankly nearly unhinged over such an unholy combination of problems. Pandemic, domestic unrest, and economic collapse bringing about unemployment and hardship for many is not a joking matter. At least not to me.

 

[McLaren]

And just like that, another conspiracy theory is passed on.

I suppose a right winger would know all about conspiracy theories if no evidence was present.

The fact Paxton is involved is telling enough, esp. if you claim to live in Texas. The man was just asked to be investigated by his own senior officials for bribery & abuse of power, and the investigation was closed days later by Paxton's office itself.