The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[ShobThaBob]

No law enforcers in Russia intend to persecute gay people because of the fact they're gay, or disband LGBT communities. Just gay marriage, prides, and since recently - propaganda are not okay.

I don't even wat.

 

[Encyclopedia]

No law enforcers in Russia intend to persecute gay people because of the fact they're gay, or disband LGBT communities. Just gay marriage, prides, and since recently - propaganda are not okay.

You don't see what's wrong with this bit?

 

[playnthru]

I don't see why. The scripture is pretty clear on their stances and nothing rescinded it. I don't understand how Christians can believe it's not a sin when it clearly says that it is. The church has the right to not treat everyone equally, and there's nothing wrong with that. The hardest thing to accept is the reality that parts of "The Good Book" are actually just stupid and wrong.

I find scripture to be very hypocritical. I have no problem believing "The Good Book" is stupid and wrong. That's my point really, being a homosexual is not a sin! Whatever scripture claims otherwise is plainly wrong in my opinion. For the church to continue down this path is the real sin. Disagreeing with some church beliefs does not stop people from believing in God or wanting to be married in the eyes of the lord. (go figure)


Yes it's their church. I don't have to attend noir does anyone. But it seems it mainly the church that's hold back gay marriage. When the states votes the vote tends to go in favor of gay marriage, least here it does. It's pressure from the church and church groups that opposes it. So if the church stops controlling who can marry, then I'll agree it's their church. But when they influence everything else? I'm not so sure.

 

[Daniel]

Look, a gay pride is a massive meeting. Any massive meeting must be agreed with the authorities. But they NEVER agree with any gay prides. So the LGBT communities carry them out illegally. And the authorities have nothing to do but to use the riot control forces to stop the unauthorized meeting. The same happens to unauthorized opposition rallies as well.
And those "anti-gay protesters" - they're just crazy homophobic morons who decided to join the party on the stronger side.
No law enforcers in Russia intend to persecute gay people because of the fact they're gay, or disband LGBT communities. Just gay marriage, prides, and since recently - propaganda are not okay.

So how come Maxim Matsinkevich hasn't been charged with kidnapping, torturing and murdering a gay teen?

 

[G.T.Ace]

I don't see why. The scripture is pretty clear on their stances and nothing rescinded it. I don't understand how Christians can believe it's not a sin when it clearly says that it is. The church has the right to not treat everyone equally, and there's nothing wrong with that. The hardest thing to accept is the reality that parts of "The Good Book" are actually just stupid and wrong.

But the new testament says the old one shouldn't count anymore, so if you're a real christian, you shouldn't hate on them at all.

 

[counter345]

But the new testament says the old one shouldn't count anymore

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

This quote is in the New International Version of the New Testament.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

...and this one is the King James version. And here's the context it's in:

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they mkay see your good works, and glority your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[PeterJB]

Notice how he says commandments there. Also note that 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul' and 'Love thy neighbor as yourself' make fairly good summaries of the ten commandments.

 

[Rage Racer]

So how come Maxim Matsinkevich hasn't been charged with kidnapping, torturing and murdering a gay teen?

Hmm... I've never heard about Tesak murdering anyone. I know who Maxim "Tesak" Martsinkevich is, he was once sentenced to 3,5 years for incitement to ethnic strife.
Tesak (his nickname means "Cleaver") used to make videos like: he and his Nazi friends executing a Tajik drug dealer (he was imprisoned for that video, and it was frame-up, otherwise he would be sentenced to much more than 3,5 years, probably to lifetime), and humiliating pedophiles and gay teens. Most of his videos were being deleted from the hostings for violence propaganda.
But if there would be a real murder, Tesak wouldn't be free now.
I think those news aren't true, there are no any proof links.

I don't even wat.

You don't see what's wrong with this bit?

I mean, brief: homosexuality in Russia is OK as long as they don't make it public. Is that clear?

 

[Encyclopedia]

I mean, brief: homosexuality in Russia is OK as long as they don't make it public. Is that clear?

So in other words, it isn't ok then.

 

[Carbonox]

I mean, brief: homosexuality in Russia is OK as long as they don't make it public. Is that clear?

Was that law written by a ten year old?

 

[Dotini]

So in other words, it isn't ok then.

One might say that nowhere on Earth is it okay, except in a handful of highly advanced - one might say decaying - western cultures.

It used to be said a black could not be elected US President. Now we know that is wrong. One woman, Hillary Clinton, is looming as a threat to succeed him - unless scandal brings her down. The Republicans are disorganized and reeling, and the remaining Dems are lightweights.

In 1960 we elected a Catholic. In 2008 a Mormon ran.

It is said within 20 years an open gay could run for President provided a large number of open gay governors had been elected.

In theory, a black lesbian Muslim dwarf could run someday, but it won't be anytime soon.

 

[Encyclopedia]

One might say that nowhere on Earth is it okay, except in a handful of highly advanced - one might say decaying - western cultures.

Russia is acting especially bad against homosexuality though. And I'm talking about the first world here.

Also, decaying? How?

 

[Carbonox]

"Decaying" is mostly just used by fundies who think their moral values should be applied to every person on earth, because you know, they're perfect.

 

[Dotini]

In the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, decay is identified as a main causative factor. There, decay implied corruption, vice, loss of vigor and rigor, and cultural dilution.

For example, food and eating passed from biological necessity to entertainment - gluttony and orgy.

Consider the number of TV shows in the US in which food is the basis of entertainment.

Edit: Russia is a special case in which they are suffering a major loss of population and birth rates are plummeting. They may be on the point of panic, and trying anything to stem the tide.

 

[Rage Racer]

Was that law written by a ten year old?

Good question.
The man who wrote the recent "gay propaganda law" is Vitaly Milonov, also known as "Milonna" (because he tried to ban the Madonna's concert in St. Petersburg), "Ginger Overlord", "Asshole with a censer", "Stoned".

Some psychologists say that his hard struggle against gay community is caused by latent homosexuality of his own, or maybe even an unlucky homosexual experience in the past.
Milonov once said:

If a man has tried a same-sex intercourse as an experiment, there's nothing wrong with that.
But only ONCE.

Nuff said.

Edit: Russia is a special case in which they are suffering a major loss of population and birth rates are plummeting. They may be on the point of panic, and trying anything to stem the tide.

Yeah, the intentions of that law looked good - to stop spreading homosexuality, but it caused a completely reverse effect (Russian Reversal, yeah!). The Russian LGBT communities have kicked over the traces and keep attracting attention of the West, pretending they're suffering up there. All of this makes a great distraction from the real issues of the country (like corruption, criminality, etc.).

 

[counter345]

Yeah, the intentions of that law looked good - to stop spreading homosexuality, but it caused a completely reverse effect (Russian Reversal, yeah!). The Russian LGBT communities have kicked over the traces and keep attracting attention of the West, pretending they're suffering up there. All of this makes a great distraction from the real issues of the country (like corruption, criminality, etc.).

The intention of the law looked good? Discrimination against a large part of the community is NOT good intentions. Forcing homosexuals into oppression is NOT going to increase birth rates.

How is something that represents the persecution against Jews a few decades ago not a "real issue" of the country?

 

[Joel]

Yeah, the intentions of that law looked good - to stop spreading homosexuality

There is so much wrong with this it is not even funny. How on earth could you claim this is a well intentioned law? How can you say that stopping the "spread" (Oh no, I caught the gay virus!) of homosexuality is an admirable goal?

 

[ShobThaBob]

But the new testament says the old one shouldn't count anymore, so if you're a real christian, you shouldn't hate on them at all.

Of course you're not supposed to hate on them, but that has no bearing on whether or not it's accepted or a sin. I always have to laugh when I see churches promoting activities that directly contradict the book which defines what they're supposed to believe.

 

[Rage Racer]

The intention of the law looked good? Discrimination against a large part of the community is NOT good intentions.

I don't think fining gay activists for imposing their lifestyle on other people would be discrimination. Again, nobody is going to arrest gay people just because they're gay. Those people who were beaten up on the gay pride have brought this upon themselves not because they're gay, but because the meeting was unauthorized. Now they scream like they are persecuted by the Russian authorities for their lifestyle.
And this can't be compared to Holocaust. This is ridiculous.

My point is:
I'm not homophobic. I don't care what people do in their homes (if they don't make drugs or prepare for a terrorism act, of course). If two men or women love each other - fine, I don't have anything against this, but there's no need to make it public. I don't want homosexualists to impose their lifestyle on other people, especially children. That's why I think the idea of that law was quite reasonable, but...

That "gay propaganda law" made too much noise, and it shouldn't. The politicians have much more important things to do than struggling against "gay propaganda". They're trying to pretend "everything is OK in this country, now let's stop homosexuality from spreading on our children!".

But remember though: that law is not as serious problem as our LGBT activists are trying to portray it. There's still only one man who was fined under this law.

 

[Famine]

I don't want homosexualists to impose their lifestyle on other people, especially children.

How are they doing that then?

Is it perfectly acceptable to "impose" a straight lifestyle on children? If not, please explain why a "gay propaganda" law is required but a "straight propaganda" law is not.

 

[PeterJB]

This law will not stop the spread of homosexuality, it will only create a lot of closeted homosexuals, and probably some underground societies too, much like in the Soviet Union.

 

[Joel]

I don't want homosexualists to impose their lifestyle on other people, especially children. That's why I think the idea of that law was quite reasonable, but...

Gay people are imposing their lifestyle on others? Do you know what impose even means?

The poor children! They'll catch the gay virus unless we violently discriminate against gay people!

 

[LeMansAid]

I'm not homophobic. I don't care what people do in their homes (if they don't make drugs or prepare for a terrorism act, of course). If two men or women love each other - fine, I don't have anything against this, but there's no need to make it public. I don't want homosexualists to impose their lifestyle on other people, especially children. That's why I think the idea of that law was quite reasonable, but...

What about smoking in public? It is undeniably harmful. Few, if any, would think that it is appropriate for children to smoke. Should that be confined to the home, so the smokers do not "impose their lifestyle" on others?

Alcohol, piercings, tattoos? Are they all fine for children to indulge in? If not, we might have to keep those things visable only in the home, yes?

 

[arora]

Of course you're not supposed to hate on them, but that has no bearing on whether or not it's accepted or a sin. I always have to laugh when I see churches promoting activities that directly contradict the book which defines what they're supposed to believe.

There is a big difference in the church between accepting a sinner and promoting a sinful nature.

You guys are off on the whole bible bit anyway, fulfilling the law sure thus salvation. Also creating a separation between faith and works, you can clearly see that works reap reward while faith brings salvation. It's easy to understand, I promise

 

[Rage Racer]

please explain why a "gay propaganda" law is required but a "straight propaganda" law is not.

I didn't say it is required. Fighting against corruption - that's what this country requires first.

This law will not stop the spread of homosexuality, it will only create a lot of closeted homosexuals, and probably some underground societies too, much like in the Soviet Union.

That's what I'm talking about - it had a completely reversal effect.
But there's no need for underground societies. There are open gay clubs in Russia, and nobody is going to close them.
By the way, in Soviet Union, homosexuality was a crime (!) and gay men could be sentenced to up to five years. The article 121 was cancelled in 1993.

Gay people are imposing their lifestyle on others?

They're actually not (yet), and the law's idea was to prevent things like this. But the gay communities scream like their rights are being violated, although they're not really harmed by this law.

What about smoking in public? It is undeniably harmful. Few, if any, would think that it is appropriate for children to smoke. Should that be confined to the home, so the smokers do not "impose their lifestyle" on others?

Alcohol, piercings, tattoos? Are they all fine for children to indulge in? If not, we might have to keep those things visable only in the home, yes?

Actually, cigarette commercials on TV are banned. Now gay propaganda is too, although it never appeared on any mass media. You might say that Milonov has written a law against what doesn't really take place, and created unnecessary noise. Like he has nothing more to do.

 

[Joel]

They're actually not (yet), and the law's idea was to prevent things like this. But the gay communities scream like their rights are being violated, although they're not really harmed by this law.

The irony.

Instead of having gay people "impose" (as in not actually impose anything on anyone in any way) their lifestyle on us, we'll impose (as in actually impose by the definition of the word) our morality on them.

And yes, their rights are being violated if you could get away from your idea of heterosexuality is "normal" and homosexuality as a deviant behaviour.

Gay propaganda , grow up.

 

[playnthru]

Sounds like straight propaganda to me.

 

[DK]

This is a law you'd expect from a country in the iron grip of Sharia Law, not a country like Russia which wants to promote itself as a functioning, developed country.

Rage Racer, you imply that you're concerned about corruption above the rights of homosexuals. In Kenya, for example, crooked cops are all too happy to blackmail homosexuals. This "anti-gay propaganda" law will just be more fuel for corruption.

 

[Famine]

I didn't say it is required...

They're actually not (yet), and the law's idea was to prevent things like this.

You've yet to explain how homosexuals impose their lifestyle on people - especially children!!!11! - just by being gay and how banning "gay propaganda" prevents it from occurring.

But the gay communities scream like their rights are being violated, although they're not really harmed by this law.

If they're not allowed to openly express their sexuality, to appear on TV and talk about homosexuality, to discuss homosexuality in any form then their rights are being violated. They no longer hold the right to free expression.

Worse, it doesn't just apply to gay people. If straight people attempt to discuss why this is stupid and cite famous Russians like Tchaikovsky as examples of great Russian homosexuals, they're eligible for imprisonment under the "gay propaganda" law. So it actually violates your rights too. You should be a lot more upset that you're not allowed to speak freely...


To say nothing of the beatings, rapes and murders of homosexual individuals that the authorities now turn a blind eye to. Let's hope no-one suspects you of being gay, eh?

 

[Rage Racer]

If they're not allowed to openly express their sexuality, to appear on TV and talk about homosexuality, to discuss homosexuality in any form then their rights are being violated. They no longer hold the right to free expression.

Worse, it doesn't just apply to gay people. If straight people attempt to discuss why this is stupid and cite famous Russians like Tchaikovsky as examples of great Russian homosexuals, they're eligible for imprisonment under the "gay propaganda" law. So it actually violates your rights too. You should be a lot more upset that you're not allowed to speak freely...

They are allowed. I have seen a lot of such TV shows where people discuss homosexuality (just like we do there) with gay activists. And nobody was fined for that, let alone arrested. But if anyone tries to tell something like "children, become gay, it's better than being straight!" - this would be punishable. This is what the law is against. I know it might sound funny to you, but idiocy doesn't have any limits in this country - anything can happen.

And again, nobody is going to be imprisoned. The worst of what this law provides is a 15-day administrative arrest, it's kinda different from imprisoning. But this arrest is a last resort, for those who repeat the offense several times.

To say nothing of the beatings, rapes and murders of homosexual individuals that the authorities now turn a blind eye to. Let's hope no-one suspects you of being gay, eh?

What you're talking about are crimes. Crimes must be fought against no matter who are their victims. There are many crimes that the police doesn't give a 🤬 at, not only against gay people. You might be attacked by outlaws not only because you're homosexual, but also because you're black or Asian, or you look rich, or just because you're walking alone through a dark alleyway. And nobody is going to protect you. All our police cares about is collecting bribes and protection money from drug dealers and pimps.

Of course, gay activists are much easier for politicians to struggle against than crooked cops and corruption.