The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Carbonox]

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2013/10/new-jersey-christian-heckler-disrupts.html

Owned?

 

[Danny]

Semi-related. What?

 

[Dennisch]

The (anti) gay related news gets sillier with every passing day.

 

[axletramp]

Eastern European girls... who are lesbians... selling cookies...

BAN SWANSON! Let's get him...

 

[demonchilde]

As long as the following is true;
1- I'm not paying for it
2- I'm not responsible for it
3- It's not on my property
4- It's behind closed doors (this goes for heterosexual as well)
5- It's willing to observe privacy (this goes for heterosexual as well)
6- I don't have to change MY life because of it
7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"
8- They don't get any more "special" rites or treatment then I do

Then I'm fine with it. Why? Because if all the above is true, I will live out my entire life without it ever affecting me.
Do I think it's rite or agienst God ? why would that matter, its YOUR opinion that matters if this is about you.

"I'm the only one who has to die when it's time for ME to die, I will live my life the way I want to" - Jimmy Hendrix

 

[Spurgy 777]

As long as the following is true;
1- I'm not paying for it
2- I'm not responsible for it
3- It's not on my property
4- It's behind closed doors (this goes for heterosexual as well)
5- It's willing to observe privacy (this goes for heterosexual as well)
6- I don't have to change MY life because of it
7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"
8- They don't get any more "special" rites or treatment then I do

Then I'm fine with it. Why? Because if all the above is true, I will live out my entire life without it ever affecting me.
Do I think it's rite or agienst God ? why would that matter, its YOUR opinion that matters if this is about you.

"I'm the only one who has to die when it's time for ME to die, I will live my life the way I want to" - Jimmy Hendrix

I don't get #7, are you suggesting teachers in schools should say it's unnatural?

 

[Minty]

Semi-related. What?

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm in tears laughing right now.

I know he's serious, and that's sad, but no matter how many times I read it I can't stop reading it as if it were an Onion article.

 

[Imari]

7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"

What's natural is that men are naturally predisposed to stick it in anything even moderately concave. I believe there's a recent thread about toasters that testifies to this.

 

[counter345]

As long as the following is true;
1- I'm not paying for it
2- I'm not responsible for it
3- It's not on my property
4- It's behind closed doors (this goes for heterosexual as well)
5- It's willing to observe privacy (this goes for heterosexual as well)
6- I don't have to change MY life because of it
7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"
8- They don't get any more "special" rites or treatment then I do

Then I'm fine with it. Why? Because if all the above is true, I will live out my entire life without it ever affecting me.
Do I think it's rite or agienst God ? why would that matter, its YOUR opinion that matters if this is about you.

"I'm the only one who has to die when it's time for ME to die, I will live my life the way I want to" - Jimmy Hendrix

I disagree with both 4 and 7. Schools have a right to teach the truth to students, specifically homosexuality within sexual education, and I don't think any sexuality needs to be "behind closed doors". To state this implies oppression.

 

[demonchilde]

Schools are only supposed to teach the subject of reproduction. In which, yeah, not natural.
Schools are NOT supposed to teach lifestyles, therefor, the subject should not come up in the first place, and if a student ASKS the reply is "supposed" to be 'you need to ask your parents or the guidence counciler'.
Schools should not be teaching what lifestyles are 'ok' , simply because from a legal prospective, technically, anything that's not illegal is 'ok'.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Schools are only supposed to teach the subject of reproduction. In which, yeah, not natural.
Schools are NOT supposed to teach lifestyles, therefor, the subject should not come up in the first place, and if a student ASKS the reply is "supposed" to be 'you need to ask your parents or the guidence counciler'.
Schools should not be teaching what lifestyles are 'ok' , simply because from a legal prospective, technically, anything that's not illegal is 'ok'.

Maybe you should go and actually learn something about homosexuality before saying whether or not teachers should say it is natural. I think the main thing that is wrong with your post is that it's NOT a lifestyle, people don't decide to be gay, they have as much control over their sexuality as you have over your eye colour.

Secondly, it IS natural, there are lots of other species that have shown homosexual behaviour, and quite often there is some benefit in nature to it as well, which would explain how it could evolve in humans.

Thirdly, schools aren't there to teach "the subject of reproduction", they're there to give kids sex education which is not just "here's how to have a baby have fun". In fact it's mostly how to have safe sex, regardless of who you're doing it with or how you're doing it, and schools shouldn't just ignore homosexuality, or any other part of sex education, just because people like you, who are completely uneducated on the subject, say so.

 

[Joel]

Schools should not be teaching what lifestyles are 'ok' , simply because from a legal prospective, technically, anything that's not illegal is 'ok'.

Yes, this is because there's no central arbiter of morality and when it comes to sex it's pretty hard to objectively call anything involving consenting adults wrong or immoral.

 

[Famine]

7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"

Schools should lie?

Incidentally, I've never seen someone on the internet using the "not natural" point before...

 

[demonchilde]

Uneducated? I'm not even going to dignify a blatent dig like that with responce. You should not immediately resort to down talking or name talking apon first glimpse of an opinion that doesn't match your own. I respect that your view is different then mine, and would defend your right to have it. (Think about that, before instantly judging me, as there are many who are completely against this subject, who are louder then myself)
Simply because I do have a "Live and let die" way of thinking, does not mean I am your enemy. I believe in both of our ways of life being able to cooincide without treading on each other.

The natural point was in direct relation to the teaching of reproduction. Applying it outside of fact based science was not intended. I can see how that could have been taken off key.

 

[Danny]

Simply because I do have a "Live and let die" way of thinking, does not mean I am your enemy.

I'm not sure that's a phrase.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Uneducated? I'm not even going to dignify a blatent dig like that with responce. You should not immediately resort to down talking or name talking apon first glimpse of an opinion that doesn't match your own. I respect that your view is different then mine, and would defend your right to have it. (Think about that, before instantly judging me, as there are many who are completely against this subject, who are louder then myself)
Simply because I do have a "Live and let die" way of thinking, does not mean I am your enemy. I believe in both of our ways of life being able to cooincide without treading on each other.

The natural point was in direct relation to the teaching of reproduction. Applying it outside of fact based science was not intended. I can see how that could have been taken off key.

I never said you were generally uneducated, I said you were uneducated on the subject, which was quite apparent when you said that homosexuality is a lifestyle and not natural. I'm sure I'm uneducated on a lot of things as well and I wouldn't consider it a personal attack for someone to point that out when I'm wrong. Granted I could have worded my post slightly better but considering it was 1am I don't think I did too bad a job.

As for you point about reproduction, I still don't think it applies because as I said in my last post, schools don't just teach reproduction in sex ed classes.

 

[Famine]

The natural point was in direct relation to the teaching of reproduction. Applying it outside of fact based science was not intended. I can see how that could have been taken off key.

You'll need to elaborate further, as in fact-based science we recognise that homosexuality is natural.

 

[BobK]

Uneducated? I'm not even going to dignify a blatent dig like that with responce. You should not immediately resort to down talking or name talking apon first glimpse of an opinion that doesn't match your own. I respect that your view is different then mine, and would defend your right to have it. (Think about that, before instantly judging me, as there are many who are completely against this subject, who are louder then myself)
Simply because I do have a "Live and let die" way of thinking, does not mean I am your enemy. I believe in both of our ways of life being able to cooincide without treading on each other.

The natural point was in direct relation to the teaching of reproduction. Applying it outside of fact based science was not intended. I can see how that could have been taken off key.

He may have a point about the "uneducated" part, though.

 

[FoolKiller]

You're getting some grief, so let me address your two points without instantly assuming you're a bigot.

4- It's behind closed doors (this goes for heterosexual as well)

This is more of a case of good etiquette than law. It goes up there with chewing with your mouth open, double dipping, dogs on airplanes, smoking around others, and bare feet in public. You aren't assaulting anyone, but no one wants to see it.

And yes, that goes for heterosexuals as well. Hell, that's worse after years of marriage and you're both comfortable. As I chivalrously unlock my wife's car door with my key fob and then get in the driver's seat, the last thing I need is a guy in a coat and tie holding the door open for a woman carrying roses and chocolate. That creates an awkward ride home where I get the "why don't you hold the door for me?" and I fire back a "as soon as you wear the 4-inch heels, little black dress, and find a hair style that doesn't require trimmers in the back."

And whether the couple is homosexual or not doesn't matter. If the woman is accepting then romance is romance is romance and she suddenly questions our comfortable situation. If she isn't accepting you just killed any chance of the night ending pleasantly.

Us settled in folks don't need the young and smitten couples suddenly making us feel like we should try for our love and loving. Once you've shared a bathroom for years there is no amount of romance to remove that familiarity, so make us stop feeling bad for being happy where we are. I watched my wife give birth to my daughter. You can't reset that clock.

7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"

I knew this would get you in trouble. I'm a parent. I get it. You don't want anyone else explaining the tricky stuff to your kids. I mean, I'd prefer they have no sex-ed courses and I get to explain it to my daughter from my death bed. But the world doesn't work that way. If not sex-ed, then biology will come upon this, assuming some other kid doesn't teach her. No matter how you try to explain a mommy and daddy there will be someone who asks about the kid with two daddies or two mommies. You can't reasonably ask your child's teacher to ignore it. Other kids will say something or draw their own conclusions. It can be addressed without right or wrong or naturalness coming into it. I could explain that sometimes a man likes dating other men, like how Bobby likes pizza, but Tommy likes hamburgers.

They can leave the politics out and if it comes up that is when you say that they need to talk to their parents about it.

There is no reason to ignore it in school, since it is something that exists. But any and all opinions on the matter should be left out of teaching.

 

[demonchilde]

You'll need to elaborate further, as in fact-based science we recognise that homosexuality is natural.

You knew and know very well, mainly because it's in the quote you grabbed, that the specific topic was reproduction. I've got enough issues with these others right now without you trying to twist something out of that quote that you know isn't there.

Bobk, really? "Oh, lets see if he made any spelling errors so I can point and laugh." ........
See, that's just a mean thing to do, and I'm pretty sure you dislike it when people do that to you. Debating and discussion I don't mind doing, but I'm not going to get into people treating each other badly. I'm being polite and respectful as I address others, I wouldn't expect anything less from people on this website, right?

Foolkiller, exactly. You seem to understand where I'm coming from. I have 4 children myself. Ages 15, 16, 18, and 19. I believe in parents who take a huge part in educating their children, not just in sex-ed, but in every school subject, and sports for that matter.

Please try to understand, the "behind closed doors" topic, is not an issue of oppression. For reasons Foolkiller touched on, and plain old common courtesy, I just don't think some things should be forced on public eyes. Taking your kids to the park, you shouldn't see 2 kids (or adults) making out on a bench with the 'pawing' of body parts, ect.
Things along those lines, is what I meant. So if once again if I was taken wrong, NOW you know exactly what I meant. So if you thought I meant something else, I'm sorry.

I posted this, to offer just one more view on a topic that has many. I did not mean to offend anyone, and if I did I apologize. I REALLY enjoy adult discussion's on topics, as I have an always open mind. Things people say and respond to, educate me as well as others, on these topics. I have walked away from some talks with a completely different point of view then when I entered it. So as long as it is respectful and polite, I have to say discussion's like these are excellent and well worth it. Thank you, to those who are like minded on that issue.

 

[Danny]

I posted this, to offer just one more view on a topic that has many. I did not mean to offend anyone, and if I did I apologize.

I don't think anyone's offended, relax.

It's interesting to see things from both side of this debate. 👍

 

[Famine]

You knew and know very well, mainly because it's in the quote you grabbed, that the specific topic was reproduction. I've got enough issues with these others right now without you trying to twist something out of that quote that you know isn't there.

Nope. What it said in the quote I "grabbed" was:

7- They don't teach it in school as "natural"

I asked whether schools should thus lie, since homosexuality is natural and you clarified:

The natural point was in direct relation to the teaching of reproduction. Applying it outside of fact based science was not intended. I can see how that could have been taken off key.

I'm seeking further clarification, since homosexuality is natural in fact-based science (is there any other kind of science?).

Homosexuality is natural. I also can't see any reason to exclude it from the teaching of reproduction which, as a topic, also covers biological response to sexual stimuli, including the homosexual - sexual arousal doesn't only happen when a straight animal sees an animal of the opposite gender.

 

[FoolKiller]

Homosexuality is natural. I also can't see any reason to exclude it from the teaching of reproduction which, as a topic, also covers biological response to sexual stimuli, including the homosexual - sexual arousal doesn't only happen when a straight animal sees an animal of the opposite gender.

US schools don't, or didn't when I went. College, yes. But I also went to school when abstinence education was common.

Basically, there was sex ed, which explained birds and bees around 10-11. That explained sex itself and attraction. But it was one part of one day, with parental opt-in permission required. If homosexuality were included it would have been an empty class.

Then biology at 13 or 14 basically covered reproduction as male/female insemination, egg fertilization, and up to birth. Then we watched the Miracle of Life documentary and at least two people were guaranteed to puke and/or pass out.

 

[Famine]

Sex education is a parent's job anyway. I figure that they at least have the practical experience...

The reproduction topic should, generally, start out with plants and pollen, buzz right through parthenogenesis and then collapse in a quivering heap at the feet of mammallian jiggling. If they don't teach why the willy goes pointy, they'm doing it wrong.

 

[BobK]

Bobk, really? "Oh, lets see if he made any spelling errors so I can point and laugh." ........
See, that's just a mean thing to do, and I'm pretty sure you dislike it when people do that to you. Debating and discussion I don't mind doing, but I'm not going to get into people treating each other badly. I'm being polite and respectful as I address others, I wouldn't expect anything less from people on this website, right?

I merely saw humor in a post where someone objects to being referred to as uneducated with a post containing misspellings which thereby help to affirm what's being objected to. Sorry you're so thin-skinned about it.

 

[FoolKiller]

The reproduction topic should, generally, start out with plants and pollen, buzz right through parthenogenesis and then collapse in a quivering heap at the feet of mammallian jiggling. If they don't teach why the willy goes pointy, they'm doing it wrong.

Even the physiology of how it goes pointy seems to be a mystery to the general public. I saw a TV show (Rescue Me) where a woman drugged a guy with a mix of sleeping pills and Viagra and then had sex with him while he was passed out. My first thought was that shouldn't work. I texted my pharmacist brother and he confirmed that ED drugs won't overcome unwillingness and don't work by creating erections. The few times I mentioned that to fans of the show they tried arguing with me.

We don't know what the different bits do. I know very few guys that think a prostate does more than get cancer or block urinary flow. My friend got a vasectomy and was surprised stuff still came out.

And don't ask anyone to identify the parts of the female anatomy. Women barely know what's going on down there.

My college biology course had the test on reproductive organs be coloring in and labeling diagrams at home. Blue was a very popular color for the testes. That was the college curriculum on the reproductive organs, a giant blue balls joke.

Everything I know I learned on my own.

 

[Famine]

Jebus. It's practically a national pastime over here to draw cocks on things. Even my (eldest) daughter can sketch out a crudely drawn-cock on a fogged-up mirror - but then she did sit through the 2 hour sex education "lesson" in abject boredom, having had every question she'd ever asked on the topic answered over the previous decade.

 

[demonchilde]

fact-based science (is there any other kind of science?)

Yes, as a matter of fact (pun, lol)

"Theoretical Science"
Basically ideas that might be popular, (might not), might be probable, but can't without doubt be proven with what we know currently. Theoretical science is the reason we know as much as we do today, as everything proven or disproved was at one time, just theory.

90% of psychology for example, is entirely theoretical science. 'Most' people believe in the mental effects of therapy's and psych-meds, however, long term results and hidden side effects are only 'educational guesses'. (Like study's done may show drug X does such and such in 97% of those in the study) This is why you sign a waver before they can treat you. But virtually nothing in the field can be proven 100% fact.

Anyhoo, sorry for straying.

Edit; adding

I know I'm going to get flack for saying this, but, you asked, lol. Homosexuality may be natural, but will not result (without non-natural help) in pregnancy, and therefore reproduction. What "turns on" men and women may be a fun side topic, as I know some people who get aroused smelling pizza, lol, but it is just that, a side topic. Again, I'm not stating this as fact, I'm merely just elaborating on my opinion.

This conversation is getting interesting, lol.

 

[Famine]

"Theory" is a scientific word meaning "An explanation of all known laws, observations and facts pertaining to the subject". So theoretical science is also fact-based.

Nevertheless, this doesn't really cover why you think schools should not say homosexuality is natural when it is, nor cover sexual response to stimuli in reproduction lessons.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

just theory.