The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Duke
  • 9,138 comments
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I think homosexuality is:

  • a problem that needs to be cured.

    Votes: 88 6.0%
  • a sin against God/Nature.

    Votes: 145 9.8%
  • OK as long as they don't talk about it.

    Votes: 62 4.2%
  • OK for anybody.

    Votes: 416 28.2%
  • nobody's business but the people involved.

    Votes: 765 51.8%

  • Total voters
    1,476
I understand your points, and agree, but they did generalize the audience by simply saying "Christians," so I think it's fair to expect the article to remain generalized.
Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be a branch of Christianity. I don't see how saying Christians generalizes it beyond the audience I described, people who consider the Bible as Holy Scripture.

I'm still unclear on what you and @BobK considered to be the unbalanced BS that made you both have to stop reading halfway through.

Seeing as this is probably the right thread for it: Why is the government involved in marriages of any kind, other than prohibiting the obvious (marrying someone who is underage for example) and having the marriage in the records?
They don't. But it gives them power and the ability to track how much money they claim you owe them every year.
 
To put it bluntly, in a legal sense: For the purposes of property records, wealth, assets, taxation, contracts, and to potentially trace lineage in the event of a legal dispute of transfer and ownership. You could mention other intangibles, but typically only numbers can be used on tax forms (except for words like EXEMPT).

Why is marriage be regulated so strictly in some places? There's no valid reason, since there's little to no reason to prohibit consenting adults (or whatever the local legal age is for marriage).

Yes this is true, but marriage is not the best structure for that actually. If we created a structure do accomplish those things, it would be better for everyone.
 
^^^ sounds like you're mad because someone has a different opinion from yours.
Which part? I address two separate things in that post.

Either way, totally not mad. That was written while waiting for a pointless meeting to start.
 
Are you think am an anti gay religious guy because I'm trying to explain them to you? I'm not. Quite opposite.

The issue is there are enough religious people in the US who think their belief should be law to make it a political issue. And that is why there is the discussion. Homosexuals do not have equal rights in the US and you need to be able to understand and change the minds of voters who would prevent you from giving them equal rights. And trust me, just saying, "I ask you to accept people for who they are and accept you are not alone in this world," will not get that done. Some think gay marriage affects their own marriage and that making it legal violates their own rights. To them understanding they are not alone in this world means others shouldn't offend them.

I try to understand but then someone like hogger129 comes along and spoils it all. Or does he? If that is how the majority thinks, I easily understand why it's such a discussion...


If you legalize gay marriage, what's next? Polygamy? Incest? Marrying your pets? We are a nation based on Christian morals whether you agree or not.
 
I try to understand but then someone like hogger129 comes along and spoils it all. Or does he? If that is how the majority thinks, I easily understand why it's such a discussion...
It's not the majority any more, but marriage is recognized at the state level. I think I last read 23 states now recognize gay marriage now.

But in some places along, what we call, the Bible Belt there is a harder time getting it through. My state actually defined marriage via a publicly voted on state constitutional amendment a few years back. It will take another amendment process to allow gay marriage to even become an issue for real legal debate here.
 
The slippery slope argument to oppose gay marriage has always troubled me. "Although I don't have a problem with you two men getting married, I don't want to let that happen because I have a problem with the possibility that brothers and sisters will be allowed to get married next."
 
I try to understand but then someone like hogger129 comes along and spoils it all. Or does he? If that is how the majority thinks, I easily understand why it's such a discussion...

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I'm not trying to get banned. I'm simply stating my opinion. It's quite ironic that people angry about intolerance are the ones being intolerant.
Disagreement in a debate, that you willfully entered, is not intolerance.

Intolerance would be refusing to even acknowledge your opinion, or worse yet, suggesting your beliefs should be illegal.
 
This is not how you debate.
Disagreement in a debate, that you willfully entered, is not intolerance.

Intolerance would be refusing to even acknowledge your opinion, or worse yet, suggesting your beliefs should be illegal.

You're still talking?
 
Just because a state says it's marriage doesn't mean it is.

Just because you think it shouldn't doesn't mean it isn't. I can not discuss with you if you keep closing the door. Please explain yourself and why you think it shouldn't. You must have a voice of your own..
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree with what is written in this article.

1.
Is false. Marriage isn't limited to being between a man and a woman. Also by denying couples the ability to get married and start a family (which you would be doing by preventing a gay couple adopting or having a child) would go against the "purpose" of raising children. Purpose in quotes because kids don't need to be involved with marriage at all.

2.
Made up non sense. Though I do agree with the idea that we can see what's right and wrong. If something isn't going to cause anyone harm, it's not wrong. Gay marriage falls under this. Conversely denying someone's ability to marry harms them and is unjust.

3.
"It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother."

Especially if they're abusive. This is more senseless text that is practically designed to harm children for a twisted agenda.

4.
Validating rights is always good. It doesn't promote anything though.

Also, how can being morally correct, and allowing someone to have their rights lead to a less moral society?

5.
There is plenty of common ground between gay marriage and interracial marriage. People are/were afraid of both because they were uncommon or went against tradition. In reality, there is no harm from either kind of marriage. You have a right to marry who you want, so in fact, the gay marriage debate and interracial marriage debate are the same thing. It's merely asking for people's rights to be recognized.

6.
This one shoots itself down:

"If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates."

There you go, gay marriage can produce children (which has nothing to do with marriage) and people are apparently even willing to put with great cost to get those children and then raise them.

7.
"One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children"

Well doesn't matter what sex the parents are.

"all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents."

Yep

8.
"the State becomes its official and active promoter."
Is this not a problem for everything else the state "promotes" then? That would include everything legal like drinking and driving but having a legal alcohol limit. The state is promoting this all our kids.

9.
"If homosexual “marriage” is universally accepted as the present step in sexual “freedom,” what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior?"

The universal standard. Rights. Straight marriage? OK. Gay marriage? OK. Incest marriage? OK. Marriage between two people of any age so long as they're mature enough to engage in such a contract/relationship? OK. Marriage between a person and their dog? Dogs can't consent to a marriage, so how is this happening in the first place?

10.
If God doesn't exist, this is null.
 
1. It Is Not Marriage

Neither are the countless "marriages" between so called Christian couple that get married so they can have sex and be okay in the sight of God. Or the countless "marriages" where one party knowingly cheats on their partner.

This part, "the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children", is incredibly insulting to couples who get married because they love one another and have no desire to have kids. It is also incredibly insulting to couples who cannot have children for whatever reason.

2. It Violates Natural Law

Just complete and utter rubbish all around.

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother

They destroy their own argument in their reasoning. Kids need parents that are involved in their life. It makes little difference who those parents are, so long as the parents actually give a crap and are involved in their kid's live.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle

What? This point is garbage. People do not decide their orientation.

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right

The actual point with the explanation is completely missed. Denying a group of people certain rights because they are "different" is wrong.

6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

Nothing to be said of marriages between straight couples that are naturally sterile. No surprise that point was completely ignored. Also continued insulting of marriages between a couple who do not want children, but want the benefits of being married.

7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage

Maybe instead of extending marriage rights to homosexual couples, we should remove the governmental granted benefits of marriage. That also solves the "problem" of homosexual marriage and makes all marriages equal in the eyes of the government. However, I am sure that solution is not one many would agree with.

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society

Actually, allowing homosxual marriage would remove the government sponsored discrimination against homosexual couples.

9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution

Frankly, who the hell gives a crap? If one continues wanting to be sexually repressed because of religious beliefs, then by all means, continue. Otherwise, leave the rest of us alone who are responsible enough to consent.

10. It Offends God

Who are they to judge me? If I want to offend God, then that is my prerogative. You go about your business and I will go about mine. What I do with my time, so long as it is not violating someone else's rights, is none of anyone else's damn business.
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree entirely with what is written in this article.

"1. It Is Not Marriage"
I totally agree, biologically it is very strange, on psychological aspect I'm not sure. If you would state that, it's almost as these people are sick. It's easy to say they are sick because it's not normal to us, however these people have proven to live on their own..

"2. It Violates Natural Law"
Not really understanding this one. What is Natural law? To them it is natural to be gay, like it is natural for you and me to like the opposite gender.

"3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother"
Yes and no. I'm not sure I support the fact homosexuals can adopt children, but I like the possibility they can. It's not proven their children won't function in society, therefore I'm not going to judge.

"4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle"
Neither sexuality should be promoted..

I can write more but it would have been in the same way the two above me did..
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree with what is written in this article.

The main thing I have a problem with in this article is the part about children being denied their mother or father. This may just be me, but I've always been under the impression that what children need more than anything is a parent who loves them, cares for them, provides for them, teaches them as they grow and are involved in their lives as a both a guardian & an authority figure. The gender/orientation of the parents is relatively unimportant in that regard. Also, considering there are families out there where it's a man & woman together and the child's needs still aren't being met, that point become nullified almost immediately.

Otherwise, all other points in the article (which I found quite interesting) have been defeated in this thread already.
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree with what is written in this article.
The article ignores scientific data regarding nature, sociology, and psychology. It then backs up its points with a lot of "it just is" and Bible verses.



Here is the deal. My cousin has been in a lesbian marriage for ten years now. This year was their 10th anniversary and they celebrated by driving to Iowa to make it legal.

Their relationship has zero visible difference than the one I have with my wife. They are parents to two children via adoption. These two kids were taken from their genetic parents at birth because they had so many drugs in their system at birth that the first six weeks of their life were spent in detox as they suffered the torturous agony of withdrawal. The parents had an opportunity to get their kids back, but one never showed to any hearings and the other made it to the first hearing, where she announced that no "thespian" would raise her baby. The next hearing she skipped to go to Florida, which got her visitations changed to full supervision. She started missing visitations after that and just disappeared.

Those poor kids, denied drug addicted, neglectful, illiterate, and uneducated parents and now forced to live with two caring mothers, one with a PhD in marine biology.

Everything about my cousin and her family tells me the author of that article does not understand, and possibly refuses to, the things it talks about. All because he likely had some guy standing at a lectern with a seminary degree tell him it was that way on Sunday mornings.

But hey, if speaking from a pulpit gives you authority, guess what I am doing at the church I was raised in tomorrow for National Donor Sabbath. I get to talk about hope and faith in my life as part of a theme on the need for hope in a world that is struggling to make it. I must not be too bad of a guy if a rural Southern Baptist church will grant me access to the pulpit.
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree with what is written in this article.
And you wonder why I hate organised religion.

"OH NOES, THEM THERE HOMOS OFFEND THE LORD!"
So what? So does wearing two pieces of clothing which are made from different materials, and yet I'm pretty sure you don't have denim socks, denim shoes and a denim shirt to go with your jeans. :rolleyes:
 
Here you go -

http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/pol...-marriage-is-harmful-and-must-be-opposed.html

You asked me for my opinion. Here it is. Not my writings, but I agree with what is written in this article.
No offense man, but this always makes me laugh, and no I'm not an atheist:
10. It Offends God

I don't know Him personally, but I'm pretty sure the Big Guy can take care of himself and dole out appropriate punishment when He's offended, if he is indeed offended by homosexual marriage. To even pretend that you can think for Him or understand what offends Him has got to violate just about everything that God stands for. He's omnipotent and omniscient and you're not. Let Him worry about what offends Him, he doesn't need you to do that for Him
 
What's the point of sharing my opinion if all you are going to do is complain about it? You already have your minds made up, as do I. Let's agree to disagree.
 
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