The Homosexuality Discussion Thread
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What times? Last I checked the Greeks and Romans before us were pretty big fans of Homosexuality, so this isn't anything new. Hell, I'd imagine that a pretty large number of early Christians practiced it as well. This is something that has been a part of human history, hell, natural history, as long as there have been living beings on this planet.
I don't have a problem with it. No one should have a problem with it. Its not our business to tell them what to do or how to think, and vice versa.
Do I want to see it in front of me all the time? No, that is a personal choice. But when I go to places where I know it will happen, you take it all in stride. One can't be offended by seeing it when they clearly have gone off to find it...
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Sparta is kind of in Greece also.
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Ok when a man and woman have sex with each other what can happen? A child might be born from that sexual act, but when 2 men have sex with each other nothing happens just selfish gratification. The same thing happens with when 2 women have sex with each other. Homosexuality is a selfish act that a person chooses to be in not some preprogrammed genetic mutation.
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Yeah, but during those periods of Greek, and Roman times is when those empires started to fall. When humans don't have a structured religious foundations to keep them on the strait and narrow greed, and selfishness take over. I don't go into gay bars telling everyone I'm strait so treat me special, or I'll sue you, because you didn't treat me special!!!
hmm that's was interesting thought ... having someone who's strait go into a business that caters to homosexuals demand to be treated differently, because of being strait.
I'm not catholic .. I'm Lutheran ... I view homosexuality as a selfish act gratification nothing more than that. I try to keep the issues of the day as simple as possible so my brain doesn't hurt.
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And the same thing happens when a heterosexual couple use birth control methods to allow them to have sex whilst purposefully avoiding conception. So homosexuals certainly don't have the monopoly on "selfish gratification" as you put it. The fact that you think that sex between two loving adults (of whatever gender) can be simplified to mere "selfish gratification" is, IMO, a fundamental misunderstanding of what relationships are all about.
You seem to be failing to make any distinction between casual sex and non-procreational sex between partners in a well-established relationship... there is a huge difference, and to suggest that homosexuals can only engage in casual sex simply because they cannot procreate is plain wrong. By that logic, heterosexuals are somehow admonished from being "selfish" simply because they are capable of reproducing - and that is pretty far from the truth, if you ask me.
To me, that statement doesn't sound like an opinion, but something you believe to be factually correct. As such, you need to back it up with some evidence, and that I would like to see...
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I have to warn him, frestkd, these guys will attack anyone and everyone who tries to say homosexuality is not OK. The only reason most who say this do is normally because we are religious and they don't listen to that form of argument.
BTW, Greeks and Romans had false Gods- sometimes even just a statue. These false Gods normally promoted greed and selfishness, not prevent them.
BTW, Greeks and Romans had false Gods- sometimes even just a statue. These false Gods normally promoted greed and selfishness, not prevent them.
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What makes you so sure they had false gods?
They had the "structured religious foundations" that frestkd says they didn't have. Which kind of belies that as a "cause" of homosexuality.
I note that you've made no attempt to address this point yet.
They had the "structured religious foundations" that frestkd says they didn't have. Which kind of belies that as a "cause" of homosexuality.
I note that you've made no attempt to address this point yet.
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Oh I did, like the first thing I said when I came into this argument discussion. I watched a video that explored this very concept from a Christian's point of view a few years back. The fact that God made a man and a woman in the beginning to be together is the answer. That other passage in the old testament with the part about eating prawns wasn't even mentioned. The Old Testament is mainly a foundation, a beginning if you will, or a history to man-kind. The New Testament is what you should follow to be a good Christian. The teachings of Jesus.
Edit: Almost didn't address your false Gods comment. Even you must agree that a statue is a false God. Most of them were mere statues and they are even mentioned in the Bible. Sometimes they were just the human ruler claiming himself to be a God. If George Bush came out and said he was a God would you believe him?
Edit: Almost didn't address your false Gods comment. Even you must agree that a statue is a false God. Most of them were mere statues and they are even mentioned in the Bible. Sometimes they were just the human ruler claiming himself to be a God. If George Bush came out and said he was a God would you believe him?
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There's only ONE passage in any version of the Bible which says anything about homosexual behaviour. The SAME PASSAGE also strictly forbids the eating of shellfish, with the same penalty (death, by stoning).
If you're going to cast out the rule about eating shellfish, why do you strictly adhere to the rule about "man laying with man"? They're in the same passage of the same book.
The New Testament at no point mentions being gay.
I'd like to know on what grounds you dismiss the Greek and Roman gods as "false" and yet not your own. People believed in them, offered up gifts and sacrifices to them and tried to interpret their will, as they do with yours. Is Allah a "false god"? How about Vishnu?
Point was that the Greeks and Romans had the "structured religious foundation" - some might argue a far more structured religious foundation than we have today - that frestkd claims they didn't have.
All gods are, of course, false.
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Joey D
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Why don't you try addressing my post rather than slighting my character?
Let's remember that there is a difference between legitimately challenging someone's opinion and blindly attacking someone just because their opinion differs from one's own... and I don't see much of the latter happening.
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First, a quick look around will show that people do debate these other issues on this very site.
Secondly, the debate goes on and is important to those who are not affected because they believe they will be. Some people feel their marriage will be insulted and others feel that laws within the country allowing what they believe are immoral acts will lead to God's wrath, something which they fear much more than a tax increase. Because it is a religious topic it is an important issue, and when politicians take advantage of that religious issue to guide voters (I'll refrain from naming others who misuse religion) it becomes a huge issue.
I'll tell you what, you tell all heterosexual people to not hold hands in public or whatever it is that heterosexuals openly do that you don't want to see a homosexual do because they are "pushing" it on you and I won't call you a hypocrite.
If I am just misunderstanding your meaning I apologize, but I have yet to see anyone trying to push homosexuality as something you have to like. No, much like race, I am just saying treat them equally.
Because they were already doing it then?
Are you married? Because you have trivialized sex in a relationship in way that makes me think you have not had a serious committed relationship.
Also, how do you know that homosexuality is a choice, unless you yourself are homosexual? To me that is like a right-handed person saying that lefties are all just pompous and just trained themselves to do it because they think it would be fun.
You know, it is funny that I consider myself a Christian and my response to homosexuality is to love my neighbor and to not judge people. But then I consider that Jesus did not cast judgments on people and taught about love and compassion and I imagine that he would not be damning them but telling others not to judge them.
Did Jesus not teach us to love, to forgive, and to be good to one another?
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So, by that logic, since I have a vasectomy I'm a selfish, greedy person and I only want selfish gratification. After all, a child cannot be born of that sexual act.
Right. I guess my wife is just there so I can get my jollies on her.
It's not like sex is a passionate, gentle, powerful expression of our love for each other.
Or anything.
It's just a selfish greedy person getting his rocks off. And his wife.
Thanks for clearing that up for me - I never would have figured that out without your help.
Joey D
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See if more Christians were like that then I would have no problem with them. I know not everyone is like that and there are Christians in the world who live by what Jesus taught...I just wish there was more of them.
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I don't know. It does seem to diminish the gratification part quite a bit.
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This to me seems to be one of the oddest arguments against homosexuality. Even if it is 'just a choice' it's really a matter of preference rather than a simple conscious decision. For example I like pineapple, the colour blue and Pink Floyd and cannot stand oysters, the colour purple or My Chemical Romance. I can't explain why I like or dislike these things, I just know that I do. I can make the conscious decision to seek or avoid these things as best I can, but I can't explain why I feel that way towards them in the first place.
In a similar way I can't explain why I feel attracted or repulsed by different people, I just am. I might like or dislike certain characteristics of that person, much like I might like or dislike certain parts of a song, but I cannot explain why I should feel that way about them. Saying homosexuality is 'just a choice' is a ridiculous as saying that being left handed is 'just a choice.' 👍
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They most certainly are not. That's an ignorant post in and of itself. They're defending their position on the subject the same as you, and many others, have and are. Now if in their post they called you a moron for thinking the way you do then yes, of course, that would be a direct attack on you, but they aren't, they're coming at your position logically(sometimes using your own against you not you in particular), under control, and sensibly.
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Thank you. Dear sweet god in which I don't believe, thank you. Finally the crux of the argument. I couldn't agree more. Sex is (or should be) the ultimate expression between two people of their undying love and respect for one another. It's pretty much the ultimate height of pleasure acheivable by man, and as such, when treated correctly, is purely good.
It should NOT be a mechanical device simply for procreation, a political weapon, a bargaining tool, or anything less than the most sacred act a couple can perform short of marriage.
Whether Darth Vader's Helmet is entering the Exhaust Port or the Landing Bay doesn't really figure into that.
At all.
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It may be a bit late, but this is the opinions forum, so here it goes.
Frankly, I don't see what is so wrong with homosexuality. While personally I don't feel any attraction towards males, it doesn't bother me one bit that others do feel it (and I know a few homosexuals, or lesbians). They are happy together much like I would be with a hypothetical girlfriend, or a random moderator with his wife.
I don't know if this is age-related or just the general opinion in this country, but I see incredible amounts of homophobia around me. The brightest folks, top-students studying physics and whatnot, still believe that homosexuals should be burned at the stake. Some claim it's a disease, some say it's "because they're weak and faggy". But I've met two couples of grown-up homosexual couples, and no - they don't "crave it". They're simply in love, much like a woman and a man are. And they're not too busy showing it off, either.
I just can't see why it's such a problem.
And he shames me to no end. This particular one belongs to a religious-right-wing party led by an ancient Rabbi with his antiquated beliefs - and the gay-earthquakes relation is just one of them. He has all kinds of medieval opinions regarding the female workforce, Arabs, or the holocaust.
Which does force Jews into a far more homophobic position (at least the religious ones - others just use it as an excuse) since prawns are forbidden (as is pork, or mixing milk and meat).
When I look at it this way, American Presidents are, in fact, deities. They are regarded as a "force from above", and Israeli leaders, since the country existed, had to "pray" for help and assistance - monetary, military, or just support - from the US. They are a bit of a god, if you look at it this way. They conquered countries considered threatening to Israel, and have given us F14s, F15s and F16s, A-Bomb technology, naval vessels, spy-planes, missiles, radars - not to mention billions of dollars of "assistance money", for no good reason (at first - in the wider perspective, I can find many reasons why the US would want to have a country like Israel stuck in the middle - and non of those have anything to do with a genuine wish to aid). So they are as much a god as Ganesh, Jesus, or Tom, or the major of Magrathea, If I look at it this way.
Frankly, I don't see what is so wrong with homosexuality. While personally I don't feel any attraction towards males, it doesn't bother me one bit that others do feel it (and I know a few homosexuals, or lesbians). They are happy together much like I would be with a hypothetical girlfriend, or a random moderator with his wife.
I don't know if this is age-related or just the general opinion in this country, but I see incredible amounts of homophobia around me. The brightest folks, top-students studying physics and whatnot, still believe that homosexuals should be burned at the stake. Some claim it's a disease, some say it's "because they're weak and faggy". But I've met two couples of grown-up homosexual couples, and no - they don't "crave it". They're simply in love, much like a woman and a man are. And they're not too busy showing it off, either.
I just can't see why it's such a problem.
And he shames me to no end. This particular one belongs to a religious-right-wing party led by an ancient Rabbi with his antiquated beliefs - and the gay-earthquakes relation is just one of them. He has all kinds of medieval opinions regarding the female workforce, Arabs, or the holocaust.
Which does force Jews into a far more homophobic position (at least the religious ones - others just use it as an excuse) since prawns are forbidden (as is pork, or mixing milk and meat).
When I look at it this way, American Presidents are, in fact, deities. They are regarded as a "force from above", and Israeli leaders, since the country existed, had to "pray" for help and assistance - monetary, military, or just support - from the US. They are a bit of a god, if you look at it this way. They conquered countries considered threatening to Israel, and have given us F14s, F15s and F16s, A-Bomb technology, naval vessels, spy-planes, missiles, radars - not to mention billions of dollars of "assistance money", for no good reason (at first - in the wider perspective, I can find many reasons why the US would want to have a country like Israel stuck in the middle - and non of those have anything to do with a genuine wish to aid). So they are as much a god as Ganesh, Jesus, or Tom, or the major of Magrathea, If I look at it this way.
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