The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[TenEightyOne]

What you quoted doesn't mean I'm marginalizing anyone. You just assumed that.

You need to look up "marginalised", when you say one part of life is okay but not another (see how you didn't answer the Sex Ed question) then you marginalise something. Fact, not an opinion, not an assumption.

You can't continue to say one thing and then claim that you in fact said another.

So, how do you show a gay couple without them looking like a gay couple? That's what we should do, you said.

And explain how that action doesn't marginalise them, providing that you're happy with the meaning of the word once you've revisited its definition.

 

[BHRxRacer]

@Imari I'll respond tomorrow.

The ESRB ratings system doesn't stop parents from buying their children games that aren't appropriate for them, or children from watching TV shows that aren't appropriate for them though.

Hmm?

What if I buy a game that doesn't have a "sexual content/theme" sticker on it, but later found something that in my opinion, falls under sexual theme? This would mean I'd have to play a game, or watch the show before I let me kids do. Defeats the purpose of having a rating.

You need to look up "marginalised", when you say one part of life is okay but not another

I never said one part is okay and one part isn't. I said one part isn't, you assumed I thought the other part is okay. I clarified that neither of them are okay. No marginalization.

(see how you didn't answer the Sex Ed question)

I did.

"And sex education, regarding health and safety, isn't different if the audience was gay or straight. I don't see a problem."

So, how do you show a gay couple without them looking like a gay couple? That's what we should do, you said.

You don't show a "couple". You show two human beings taking care of a kid.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You don't show a "couple". You show two human beings taking care of a kid.

Ah, marginalisation. You said you didn't want that?

So, your child is watching a programme with 2 men taking care of a child and asks you if they're married (they are). What do you say?

 

[BHRxRacer]

Ah, marginalisation. You said you didn't want that?

So, your child is watching a programme with 2 men taking care of a child and asks you if they're married (they are). What do you say?

They're not

 

[Imari]

What if I buy a game that doesn't have a "sexual content/theme" sticker on it, but later found something that in my opinion, falls under sexual theme? This would mean I'd have to play a game, or watch the show before I let me kids do. Defeats the purpose of having a rating.

Which is why the ratings boards tend to publish definitions of their ratings and how they arrive at them.

If you disagree, then yes, you're going to have to watch it yourself. Sometimes life is hard. If you don't have the time, you can either not let your children play games, or you can take your chances with what the ratings board says.

They're not

Oh Lord...and you were going so well.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Which is why the ratings boards tend to publish definitions of their ratings and how they arrive at them.

If you disagree, then yes, you're going to have to watch it yourself. Sometimes life is hard. If you don't have the time, you can either not let your children play games, or you can take your chances with what the ratings board says.

Life is hard, yes. I'm willing to deal with it, but why would that stop me from complaining, in hopes of it getting easier?

Oh Lord...and you were going so well.

I just wanted to piss him off. I'm too sleepy for that kind of prejudice right now. I'll be back. Goodnight.

 

[FoolKiller]

@Imari What if I buy a game that doesn't have a "sexual content/theme" sticker on it, but later found something that in my opinion, falls under sexual theme? This would mean I'd have to play a game, or watch the show before I let me kids do. Defeats the purpose of having a rating.

God forbid you took a fully active interest in your kids' exposure to media.

At a minimum watch with them and stop it the moment it becomes obectional.

 

[LeMansAid]

Getting down to brass tacks: Are we just seeing what happens when people aren't honest?

The conversation floats around to all sorts of places because an instigator doesn't just hit the issue head on. The idea of anal sex grosses me out, but instead of trying to pretend that it doesn't, I accept that it's what I think. Turns out though that it has nothing to with any aversion to the existence and persistence of homosexuality. It is what it is, and only that. Boy/boy, girl/girl, boy/girl..... all yuck.

Trouble is, we lose the opportunity for insight through self-interrogation when we lie to ourselves. It's the unfortunate side effect of society pushing forward via both forced and unforced boundaries. People put on faces. They don't always realise that we'll see right through them, but they put on faces.

I've had almost exclusively bad experiences with Australian Aboriginal people, and I'm honest with myself about the instincts that has generated in me. Pretending that I am non discriminatory would get me nowhere in reality. It's a work in progress.

For once, I'd love to see someone come in here and say "I hate gays.... help me".

 

[Com Fox]

I'm not a parent myself but I don't see the problem with Children watching shows with a little sexual content/theme without going to the extreme especially if it involves gay and lesbian. Personally, children should know this is normal ASAP.

 

[Famine]

For once, I'd love to see someone come in here and say "I hate gays.... help me".

Equivalence.

 

[Danoff]

Equivalence.

Wow... thread dig. That was a nice trip down memory lane.

 

[huskeR32]

Keep up. I answered this before. Here:

It might prompt the kid to ask what the difference is between homo/hetero.

OK, but how does that make you talk to them about sex?

Can you explain to your kids that two straight people are in love without telling them about sex? I'd imagine so. Now, explain two gay people the same way. Done.

 

[TenEightyOne]

OK, but how does that make you talk to them about sex?

Can you explain to your kids that two straight people are in love without telling them about sex? I'd imagine so. Now, explain two gay people the same way. Done.

Haha as if it's that easy.

Oh, wait...

 

[BHRxRacer]

You want to dictate public behaviour based on the lowest common denominator? That would make some of the stuff Middle Eastern countries expect of their women look tame in comparison.

You cannot satisfy absolutely everybody, and it's a waste of time to try. Mostly, because some people are just :censored:ing nuts.

Public behaviour is dictated not by what keeps everyone happy, but by the minimum necessary to not have the snot kicked out of you. As long as the majority of people will tolerate behaviour, it's acceptable publically.

TL;DR: Publically acceptable behaviour is defined by what is tolerable by a majority, not by what is acceptable to everyone.

Very interesting.

So given that logic, and that the vast majority of Americans were(are) heterosexual, do they have the right to ban two gay dudes holding hands in public? If they find it intolerable behaviour, of course, which I'm sure the majority did in the past. If they did have that right, isn't it right saying LGBT groups were unrightfully shoving their opinion down the majority's throat?

Looks like I was nicer than I thought.

You're going to have to explain how public nudity relates to being able to quickly discern the relationship between two people via observation of their behaviour.

I don't particularly care either way about public nudity, for what it's worth. Clothes are useful most of the time, because it's cold and they're comfortable. They have pockets I can keep things in, and they stop me burning my precious skin when I spill acid in the lab. But I don't freak out when I go to the beach and see everyone wearing dental floss.

Clothes also serve useful functions signalling hierarchies, professions, and such. When I wear a suit to a job interview it's more than just looking nice, it's that I've made the effort to get all dressed up like this. It's that I care enough about the interview that I'm dedicating time to it.

As with everything, I think it's a balance. There's times when there's nothing wrong with public nudity. I've been to public baths in Japan, everyone is naked, nobody cares. Wearing a bathing suit would defeat the purpose. There's times when clothes are helpful, and then you wear them and you're not naked.

I don't think being nude is a dirty thing, if that's where you're going with this. If there was no such thing as a swimming costume, and everyone went to the beach and swam naked, I do not think that would change society in any appreciable manner. Apart from putting a lot of designer bikini shops out of business, which I'm strangely OK with.

I'm all for whatever is the most functional solution at the time.

No relations at all, was just curious to see your opinion. Thanks.

God forbid you took a fully active interest in your kids' exposure to media.

Wait, you believe in god? Don't you know god shuns homosexuals? How dare you defend them.

At a minimum watch with them and stop it the moment it becomes obectional.

It'd be too late, and the kid will get that it's something he shouldn't know/see. It'll make it worse if I change the channel and pretend nothing happened.

For once, I'd love to see someone come in here and say "I hate gays.... help me".

*Clap clap clap*

This is exactly how I feel reading most of your responses. I get the feeling you guys are secretly extremely homophobic, which is why you get so butthurt and twist any logic or reason to turn it into something homophobic, so that you feel better about yourself. Call it "heterosexual homophobic guilt". That, or you want certain freedoms of your own but you're afraid to ask for them without giving gays their right as well. Of course, to avoid looking selfish. If that's what makes you sleep at night, go right ahead.

OK, but how does that make you talk to them about sex?

Can you explain to your kids that two straight people are in love without telling them about sex? I'd imagine so. Now, explain two gay people the same way. Done.

Have you been napping? I've answered this at least 3 times already. Yes, I can explain to my kids that two straight people love each other, the same way I'd love them(my kids), the same way any two mammals love each other.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I have a problem with the kids seeing something they find odd. If his parents are straight, he'll find gay couples doing what his parents do weird. If his parents are gay, he'll find straight parents doing what his/her gay parents are doing weird.

...this one passed unnoticed? Really?

Really?

 

[BHRxRacer]

...this one passed unnoticed? Really?

Really?

Yes, really. Care to tell me what your problem is with what I said?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

By your logic, a white/black/(east) asian child could find a family comprised of another race (or even - gasp - mixed) "odd". Is that a problem too?

In reality, there's no difference. In any case - a hetero couple of the same race, a hetero couple of different races, a homosexual couple of the same race, a homosexual couple of different races - the important thing a child could take away from the show is that it's still two people, loving each other, raising a child or children.

And, as ever, there's this too:

Children find a lot of things weird. That's where adults come in and explain that those weird things are perfectly normal.

 

[BHRxRacer]

By your logic, a white/black/(east) asian child could find a family comprised of another race (or even - gasp - mixed) "odd". Is that a problem too?

Awful analogy. No, that's not the idea. There can be absolutely no harm done to explain that whites, blacks, Asians, Arabs or Jews are not different. However, there is a (small) probability that harm can be done in the situation I described.

edit

So, your child is watching a programme with 2 men taking care of a child and asks you if they're married (they are). What do you say?

@TenEightyOne I suppose you still want a real answer to this. Your situation wouldn't happen in my ideal world, because like I said, they wouldn't be married. That's not because they're gay either, it goes for straight couples as well. Legal definition of the "family" should be open to interpretation in kids shows, in my opinion. Or, if they insist, they can warn the public beforehand via ESRB

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Awful analogy. No, that's not the idea. There can be absolutely no harm done to explain that whites, blacks, Asians, Arabs or Jews are not different. However, there is a (small) probability that harm can be done in the situation I described.

Do explain how, since it was you who made the qualifier that anything not resembling the child's parents would be "odd".

Again, it's two people, loving each other, raising a child or children.

@TenEightyOne I suppose you still want a real answer to this. Your situation wouldn't happen in my ideal world, because like I said, they wouldn't be married. That's not because they're gay either, it goes for straight couples as well. Legal definition of the "family" should be open to interpretation in kids shows, in my opinion. Or, if they insist, they can warn the public beforehand via ESRB

Warn the public about marriage. This has taken an odd turn.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Do explain how, since it was you who made the qualifier that anything not resembling the child's parents would be "odd".

No, not anything odd. Just excessive compassion. If they see that between two males, and their parents are straight, they might find it odd and ask questions. If they see that between male/female, and their parents are gay, they might find it odd and ask questions.

Again, it's two people, loving each other, raising a child or children.

Hmm. That's what I've been saying though.

Loving each other how? Like a father would love his son?

Warn the public about marriage. This has taken an odd turn.

Keep up

 

[SlipZtrEm]

No, not anything odd. Just excessive compassion.

Yep:

Check out all the hot lesbian action. Y'know. So we know they're a couple.

Excessive.

If they see that between two males, and their parents are straight, they might find it odd and ask questions. If they see that between male/female, and their parents are gay, they might find it odd and ask questions.

Great. There isn't any reason sex has a more likely chance of entering that discussion if the parents are gay versus straight.

Hmm. That's what I've been saying though.

Loving each other how? Like a father would love his son?

Like any two parents love each other.

Keep up

Do you or do you not want marriage portrayed at all in media in this "ideal world", again?

 

[Joel]

This is exactly how I feel reading most of your responses. I get the feeling you guys are secretly extremely homophobic, which is why you get so butthurt and twist any logic or reason to turn it into something homophobic, so that you feel better about yourself. Call it "heterosexual homophobic guilt". That, or you want certain freedoms of your own but you're afraid to ask for them without giving gays their right as well. Of course, to avoid looking selfish. If that's what makes you sleep at night, go right ahead.

He's found me out! Little did you all know I actually hate gay people! How will I go on now that my secret's out? I wanted to stay closeted

 

[BHRxRacer]

Excessive.

Tell me, would you do that to a guy, or a girl you're in love with but aren't attracted to? Do you think it's possible to be in love with someone you find visually repulsive? I do, but I'm asking you.

Great. There isn't any reason sex has a more likely chance of entering that discussion if the parents are gay versus straight.

You don't know that, I've seen it happen, so I know it's possible.

He's found me out! Little did you all know I actually hate gay people! How will I go on now that my secret's out? I wanted to stay closeted

Don't worry I won't tell anybody

 

[huskeR32]

Have you been napping?

Your continued inferences to the contrary aside, you're the one utterly missing the point here.

I've answered this at least 3 times already.

You haven't. Not even close.

Yes, I can explain to my kids that two straight people love each other, the same way I'd love them(my kids), the same way any two mammals love each other.

This doesn't even answer the one question that I had explicitly typed out in my last post, let alone the implied carry-over question that I've been trying to get you to answer for the last few days. Let's try this one last time.

Let's begin with the claim that started all of this:

Because the only way to show sexuality, gay or straight, is through sex acts.

Myself and several others pointed out that this claim is unfounded and ridiculous. You've yet to directly acknowledge our attempts to get you to substantiate it. So, I put to you:

1. You can easily show that two straight people are in a relationship on TV show without using sex to do so. Do you agree? If so, move on to question two. If not, then please demonstrate the validity of your claim to the contrary.

2. You can just as easily show the same if the people involved are gay. Again, without referencing or showing sex. Do you agree? If yes, then please retract your claim to the contrary. If no, then please demonstrate the validity of your claim to the contrary, and why it only applies to homosexuals.

It's simple. You made a claim. I'm calling 🤬 on it. Love between any two people (and not just the "same way you'd love your kids") can be easily and inoffensively portrayed by showing them engaging in normal, everyday relationship behavior - raising children, working together towards goals, saying "I love you," by simply referring to each other as husband or wife, etc., etc. Sex need never be involved.

Demonstrate that I'm wrong, and why. Or retract your claim.

 

[Exorcet]

No, not anything odd. Just excessive compassion. If they see that between two males, and their parents are straight, they might find it odd and ask questions. If they see that between male/female, and their parents are gay, they might find it odd and ask questions.

This will probably only happen if they see one side in overwhelming numbers before ever seeing the other. Hard to call something odd if you literally see it all the time.

Tell me, would you do that to a guy, or a girl you're in love with but aren't attracted to?

Do what? Visit someone's house? They hardly did anything in that scene. Yet it was established that they were a couple.

You don't know that, I've seen it happen, so I know it's possible.

The rate of people who don't know how probability works can be alarming.

 

[BHRxRacer]

1. You can easily show that two straight people are in a relationship on TV show without using sex to do so. Do you agree? If so, move on to question two. If not, then please demonstrate the validity of your claim to the contrary.

My problem is demonstrating that they're in a relationship to begin with(gay or straight). I can demonstrate they love each other and their children in a friendly way, such as I would love them(father-son), and that's sufficient.

2. You can just as easily show the same if the people involved are gay. Again, without referencing or showing sex. Do you agree? If yes, then please retract your claim to the contrary. If no, then please demonstrate the validity of your claim to the contrary, and why it only applies to homosexuals.

As I said numerous times, it doesn't apply to homosexuals only. It applies to everybody.

This will probably only happen if they see one side in overwhelming numbers before ever seeing the other. Hard to call something odd if you literally see it all the time.

See it all the time where? At home? Because home is the only place you'd see it, since imo it shouldn't be seen in public or on TV

If you choose to engage in such things in front of your children and feel that it's okay to tell them how normal sex is at such a young age, go ahead. Your kid, your call.


Note(again): Such things = Things you'd do with the significant other and nobody else.

Do what? Visit someone's house? They hardly did anything in that scene. Yet it was established that they were a couple.

So tell me how you established they're a couple.

The rate of people who don't know how probability works can be alarming.

Okay, highly improbable. Better? Are you satisfied with that?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Tell me, would you do that to a guy, or a girl you're in love with but aren't attracted to? Do you think it's possible to be in love with someone you find visually repulsive? I do, but I'm asking you.

Take them to another family's house and introduce them? Yes, how daring.

The second question has no relevance. Stop asking side-questions with little relation to the topic at hand - you haven't been able to ably answer many, so maybe stick to those first.

You don't know that, I've seen it happen, so I know it's possible.

What @Exorcet said.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Take them to another family's house and introduce them? Yes, how daring.

The second question has no relevance. Stop asking side-questions with little relation to the topic at hand - you haven't been able to ably answer many, so maybe stick to those first.

I meant caressing, etc.

The second question has ALL the relevance to this discussion, but thanks for avoiding it.

 

[SniperRed3]

I have 3 younger siblings aged 10, 8 and 6 they are well informed about sexuality as they are exposed to the open world per say. They are not subject to censoring in regards to sexuality. My families quote after the warnings at the start of the movie is "so is life".

 

[BHRxRacer]

I have 3 younger siblings aged 10, 8 and 6 they are well informed about sexuality as they are exposed to the open world per say. They are not subject to censoring in regards to sexuality. My families quote after the warnings at the start of the movie is "so is life".

I'm happy for all of you, and glad it worked out.