The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[SniperRed3]

If I am correct you were all for censorship of homosexuality from kids, but to be honest your BS is fragmented over about 10 pages it makes my head hurt.

 

[BHRxRacer]

If I am correct you were all for censorship of homosexuality from kids, but to be honest your BS is fragmented over about 10 pages it makes my head hurt.

You're not correct, it's all for warning of sexuality on TV regardless of orientation, and censorship of it in public.

Can things work out just fine without them? Sure they can, they probably will. Do I want to take a chance with my kids? No I don't

 

[SniperRed3]

There is a warning of sexual scenes but I suppose you want a big warning that the following scenes contain homosexuals.

 

[BHRxRacer]

There is a warning of sexual scenes but I suppose you want a big warning that the following scenes contain homosexuals.

I have said no such thing. Quote me.

 

[SniperRed3]

Why else would you want warnings for sexuailty? Your clearly uncomfortable for your children to watch "things with sexuailty in".

 

[Imari]

Very interesting.

So given that logic, and that the vast majority of Americans were(are) heterosexual, do they have the right to ban two gay dudes holding hands in public? If they find it intolerable behaviour, of course, which I'm sure the majority did in the past. If they did have that right, isn't it right saying LGBT groups were unrightfully shoving their opinion down the majority's throat?

Looks like I was nicer than I thought.

Which is exactly why public displays of homosexuality were not acceptable in the past.

I'm not saying that certain behaviours are right or wrong, but that this is how what is publically acceptable is established.

It is not some sort of committee where everybody involved sits around and puts their two cents in, nor is there some sort of rule set where everyone behaves in a manner that would be tolerable to the most easily offended member.

It's a dynamic and evolving system. If one group feels that they're being hard done by, they can and do go out and try to sway people to their cause. When enough people are willing to tolerate that group, it becomes publically acceptable to be seen as a member of that group.


The main problem with your argument is that it's based on such a weak premise. You don't want visible homosexuality because you don't want to teach your kids about it, for as yet unspecified reasons.
Why not teach your kids about gays?
Why not teach your kids about sex?
Why not teach your kids about their bodies, and the things that are going to happen as they grow up?
Why deny your children information that they're curious about?

What positive effects do you forsee for your children by withholding this information from them, that would not be possible if you presented them with clear and unbiased explanations of the things they have questions for?

I can actually understand the position of people who are homophobic because they think that gays are an abomination or whatever. They're wrong, but at least there's some reasoning going on there even though they're working from flawed first principles.

But "no gays because I don't want to teach my kids about gays"? That's not the whole story, and I think you know it.

 

[SniperRed3]

Please for the sake of the children talk to them about homosexuality. If you don't tell them they will find out through the Internet

 

[BHRxRacer]

Why else would you want warnings for sexuailty? Your clearly uncomfortable for your children to watch "things with sexuailty in".

Yes, I don't want to take a risk that may prematurely end their childhood's innocence in that manner.

That has nothing to do with homosexuality. Looks like I'll have to repeat this another 100 times.

Which is exactly why public displays of homosexuality were not acceptable in the past.

How did it become acceptable all of a sudden, and how do you know it's acceptable now among the majority?

Better yet, how did black people going into bars or dating white women suddenly become acceptable in southern states of America? How hard did civil rights movements in the US had to fight? You could argue the majority in at least a few states were opposed to the idea, but it happened in-spite of them. Shouldn't have happened according to your logic.

It is not some sort of committee where everybody involved sits around and puts their two cents in, nor is there some sort of rule set where everyone behaves in a manner that would be tolerable to the most easily offended member.

It's a dynamic and evolving system. If one group feels that they're being hard done by, they can and do go out and try to sway people to their cause. When enough people are willing to tolerate that group, it becomes publically acceptable to be seen as a member of that group.

Hmm. Enough? like, percentage? How would you know "enough" people have started tolerating it.

Why not teach your kids about gays?
Why not teach your kids about sex?

No, due to a potential lack of understanding of sex and all it entails, which could lead to negative consequences for them.

Why not teach your kids about their bodies, and the things that are going to happen as they grow up?

When they're old enough.

Why deny your children information that they're curious about?

If they got curious about it and asked, I'd answer and go through the whole deal. What I'm trying to avoid is getting them curious in the first place.

The main problem with your argument is that it's based on such a weak premise. You don't want visible homosexuality because you don't want to teach your kids about it, for as yet unspecified reasons.

I don't want visible sexuality, period. I've explained my reasons enough times to every member now. I'll stop.

But "no gays because I don't want to teach my kids about gays"? That's not the whole story, and I think you know it.

That's not even a part of the story, and you ought to know it by now given I've explained a dozen times.

edit-

Please for the sake of the children talk to them about homosexuality. If you don't tell them they will find out through the Internet

I won't let them browse the internet without supervision until they're 12.

 

[SniperRed3]

Ahh age 12 just when they start puberty and all they have is mates at school and the Internet to rely on for information about sexuailty.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Ahh age 12 just when they start puberty and all they have is mates at school and the Internet to rely on for information about sexuailty.

Well Google agrees with me.

Below are the minimum age requirements to own a Google Account:

• United States: 13 or older
• Spain: 14 or older
• South Korea: 14 or older
• Netherlands: 16 or older
• All other countries: 13 or older

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/1350409?hl=en

And no, at 12 I'd teach them everything they need to know. They won't need to ask anyone at school.

 

[SniperRed3]

In my experience at school it's not given on request it's talked about alot but it may be different in your area as in the UK kids grow up quicker.

 

[BHRxRacer]

In my experience at school it's not given on request it's talked about alot but it may be different in your area as in the UK kids grow up quicker.

It's talked about a lot here too, and it's unfortunate. If everybody followed my recommendation, the kids wouldn't know enough to talk about anything. (improbable) Problem solved.

 

[SniperRed3]

There are warnings for scenes of a sexual nature in films. I think most of my sexual education from male role models in my life was remember to wash your balls and don't be silly wrap your willy. Had it not been for people explaining the big wide world to me when I asked before puberty. I think puberty would have been a completely different experience. And I'd be worse off for it

 

[BHRxRacer]

There are warnings for scenes of a sexual nature in films. I think most of my sexual education from male role models in my life was remember to wash your balls and don't be silly wrap your willy. Had it not been for people explaining the big wide world to me when I asked before puberty. I think puberty would have been a completely different experience. And I'd be worse off for it

Thanks for sharing your experience. Like I said, I'm glad things worked out for you. Things worked out well for me too, but not for others. I think it's better to watch out for those others who it may not work for.

Oh and as for warnings, I explained my problem with that here.

 

[SniperRed3]

Trust me ersb ratings are very strict that's why the lotus in gt6 doesn't use the correct wording because it.would.increase the rating

 

[BHRxRacer]

Trust me ersb ratings are very strict that's why the lotus in gt6 doesn't use the correct wording because it.would.increase the rating

Not that I don't trust you, but I'd have to study a few games/shows before I make that judgment for myself. I honestly don't notice anything out of order in what I see, not really keeping an eye on it. I'll try to take more notice if I decide to have kids. So yeah, you could be right and ESRB's ratings are strict enough, but I don't know that yet.

 

[FoolKiller]

It'd be too late, and the kid will get that it's something he shouldn't know/see. It'll make it worse if I change the channel and pretend nothing happened.

Here's another hint: Don't watch broadcast TV with them. We dropped our cable and satellite. My daughter is unable to view anything on Netflix but their Kids channel, and last I checked Jake MLP didn't have anything questionable.

Wait, you believe in god? Don't you know god shuns homosexuals? How dare you defend them.

I'm not even sure if you are bring serious here. Just in case, yes I do. I'm unsure about the shunning bit. I don't recall reading that. I know Jesus never shied away from disreputable sorts. I do believe God dislikes believers using his name to defend their bigotry. Last I checked it was all about love and acceptance and striving to be like Jesus.

Or, if they insist, they can warn the public beforehand via ESRB

So much makes sense now. Why would the Entertainment Software Ratings Board give TV warnings?
Ratings only work if the parents understand them. You didn't even know they exist and now you still haven't made an effort to find out what they are. You can't complain when you haven't put forth the effort to see if your wants are actually already met.

Better yet, I bet you don't also know that there are independent "family values" groups that review and rate these things as well.

Please for the sake of the children talk to them about homosexuality. If you don't tell them they will find out through the Internet

Next thing you know they will experiment with homosexuality and sex. All the cool kids are doing it. And that's just a gateway to other things. Just ask David Carradine. He should serve as a warning to all parents.

 

[SniperRed3]

God don't want to expose my kids to the fact there is gays people out there wouldnt want them to catch gays.
(please note this is sarcastic and the author doesn't believe the above statement he infact thinks it's bs)

 

[BHRxRacer]

Here's another hint: Don't watch broadcast TV with them. We dropped our cable and satellite. My daughter is unable to view anything on Netflix but their Kids channel, and last I checked Jake MLP didn't have anything questionable.

I only used TV for sports in the past 10 years, but I get that online now so, yeah. I will drop broadcast TV.

I don't know what Jake MLP is. I don't know what the contents of kids shows are nowadays, and I'm afraid I may find out too late. That's my problem

I'm not even sure if you are bring serious here. Just in case, yes I do. I'm unsure about the shunning bit. I don't recall reading that. I know Jesus never shied away from disreputable sorts. I do believe God dislikes believers using his name to defend their bigotry. Last I checked it was all about love and acceptance and striving to be like Jesus.

I wasn't serious but I'm surprised by your answer.

So do you believe gay people are going to heaven?

So much makes sense now. Why would the Entertainment Software Ratings Board give TV warnings?
Ratings only work if the parents understand them. You didn't even know they exist and now you still haven't made an effort to find out what they are. You can't complain when you haven't put forth the effort to see if your wants are actually already met.

Dude, by "warning" I just meant the sticker. I'm aware they exist, and I understand them. This is a video games forum, you don't think I've noticed at least the GT6 rating?

I wasn't complaining about them, I only expressed concern that ESRB ratings may not be strict enough.

Better yet, I bet you don't also know that there are independent "family values" groups that review and rate these things as well.

Of course I do, but like I said in my first post here, I'm always a minority. That group and I may differ on what we find acceptable.

 

[Exorcet]

See it all the time where? At home? Because home is the only place you'd see it, since imo it shouldn't be seen in public or on TV

TV, real world, anywhere really. We don't live in your ideal world so I don't see why you'd bring it up. You can't stop couples from being couples anyway, it's not going to happen. And if you're not pro censorship as you say you'd very well be able to see couples on TV.

If you choose to engage in such things in front of your children and feel that it's okay to tell them how normal sex is at such a young age, go ahead. Your kid, your call.

The only one bringing sex into the picture here is you. Sex has nothing to do with what kind of parents someone has.

Note(again): Such things = Things you'd do with the significant other and nobody else.

Which would include things like calling them my significant other, getting married, raising a kid, etc. A long list of things not involving sex.

So tell me how you established they're a couple.

"Amy, this is Taylor's other mom, Sheryl."

"Taylor has two moms."

Okay, highly improbable. Better? Are you satisfied with that?

I was going to spell out the issue with your sample size of 1 out of 7 billion being almost worthless, but to be honest there are problems before we even get to the probability. You having seen a case where a kid asked about sex following something involving gay couples doesn't give you a leg up on anything. Slip's point is pretty easily arrived at from logic. Sex has nothing to do with orientation.

 

[FoolKiller]

I don't know what Jake MLP is. I don't know what the contents of kids shows are nowadays, and I'm afraid I may find out too late. That's my problem

Stupid typo. Jake and MLP, aka My Little Pony (waits for W&N to appear). Jake is Jake and the Neverland Pirates. If you have kids you have a lot of catching up to do. Safe TV would be Disney Junior. Fortunately, Netflix also has classic cartoons from the 80s and 90s, so you should know their content. My daughter loves watching Batman cartoons with me and I tolerate our 90th viewing of Frozen.

I wasn't serious but I'm surprised by your answer.

So do you believe gay people are going to heaven?

I believe they have the same chance as people who eat shrimp or shave their beards and sideburns.

Dude, by "warning" I just meant the sticker. I'm aware they exist, and I understand them. This is a video games forum, you don't think I've noticed at least the GT6 rating?

Well, it's printed on the label, and I personally find myself giggling at the descriptions. They even list cartoon violence and lyrics from the soundtrack.

I wasn't complaining about them, I only expressed concern that ESRB ratings may not be strict enough.

Well, that's why you take the effort to give a game a quick play through or watch videos of gameplay online.

Of course I do, but like I said in my first post here, I'm always a minority. That group and I may differ on what we find acceptable.

Here. Full descriptions of shows, pointing out anything that might be considered objectionable to certain parents.
http://www.pluggedin.com/

EDIT: I have to ask: Do you think TV shouldn't reflect the real world and we should still be watching Leave it to Beaver? Even Andy Griffith dealt with the complex issues of the time.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Sex has nothing to do with orientation.

I'm going to stop you there until you explain the significance of the word "sexual" in "sexual orientation".

Stupid typo. Jake and MLP, aka My Little Pony (waits for W&N to appear). Jake is Jake and the Neverland Pirates. If you have kids you have a lot of catching up to do. Safe TV would be Disney Junior. Fortunately, Netflix also has classic cartoons from the 80s and 90s, so you should know their content. My daughter loves watching Batman cartoons with me and I tolerate our 90th viewing of Frozen.

I don't have kids, and I don't plan on having them any time soon, if ever. If I do however, I plan on letting them watch the stuff I used to watch from the 80s/90s. As to the new stuff you mentioned, thanks. Still, what you may find appropriate, I may find inappropriate. That's the point I'm trying to make.

I believe they have the same chance as people who eat shrimp or shave their beards and sideburns.

Come on now, be honest. Have you ever asked a priest if it's okay? If so, what'd he tell you?

Well, it's printed on the label, and I personally find myself giggling at the descriptions. They even list cartoon violence and lyrics from the soundtrack.

Off topic but yes, I agree. Some of them are funny because of how strict they can be

Well, that's why you take the effort to give a game a quick play through or watch videos of gameplay online.

If things don't change much, I won't be concerned about video games. My girlfriend(who will then be wife, I think. I hope? Maybe) and I will probably finish the game before we let the kid have it.

Here. Full descriptions of shows, pointing out anything that might be considered objectionable to certain parents.
http://www.pluggedin.com/

I'll take a look, thanks

 

[Exorcet]

I'm going to stop you there until you explain the significance of the word "sexual" in "sexual orientation".

It is because orientation exists to drive sexual reproduction, which is completely separate from orientation.

Bob likes Alex. Now we know Bob's orientation (or at least eliminated one possibility). Where is the sex?

Or better yet, the video example already posted.

Also, this bit has nothing to do with:

So tell me how you established they're a couple.

Which you could have replied to.

 

[FoolKiller]

Still, what you may find appropriate, I may find inappropriate. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Well, if a group of kids pretending to be pirates, with wooden swords and the like, teaching Captain Hook lessons on team work and friendship is objectionable...

Come on now, be honest. Have you ever asked a priest if it's okay? If so, what'd he tell you?

I a being honest. Those things are prohibited in the same book as homosexuality.

And I'm not Catholic. And I don't know what one man's, or organized group's thoughts have to do with it. It's more of a WWJD kind of thing.

 

[BHRxRacer]

It is because orientation exists to drive sexual reproduction, which is completely separate from orientation.
.

Bob likes Alex. Now we know Bob's orientation (or at least eliminated one possibility). Where is the sex?

Wherever they do it?

Well, if a group of kids pretending to be pirates, with wooden swords and the like, teaching Captain Hook lessons on team work and friendship is objectionable...

I don't know what program you're referring to. The MLP thing? I'm not discussing a particular show, I haven't even watched an animated film in a long, long time. I'm just saying that there may be something we have different views on.

And I'm not Catholic. And I don't know what one man's, or organized group's thoughts have to do with it. It's more of a WWJD kind of thing.

Well, I wasn't asking what Jesus would do on earth, how he'd deal with them. I'm asking what would happen to them in the after life. You believe in that, don't you?

edit-

NVM I did watch despicable me 2 and I was disappointed. Probably why I forgot I watched it. Off topic, let's not discuss them here.

 

[FoolKiller]

I don't know what program you're referring to. The MLP thing? I'm not discussing a particular show, I haven't even watched an animated film in a long, long time. I'm just saying that there may be something we have different views on.

If you can't tell which show I was referring to then you must not have watched animated movies in about 50 years. Or be a Robin Williams fan.

Well, I wasn't asking what Jesus would do on earth, how he'd deal with them. I'm asking what would happen to them in the after life. You believe in that, don't you?

Oh. I don't know. It's not my choice or decision. I cannot speak for or assume to understand an entity such as God. Those who claim to have begun to worship at their own alter.

 

[Exorcet]

Word association does not make one any less separate from the other. As long as you can explain one without mentioning the other, they're fairly separate concepts.

Orientation is a preference, gay, straight, or bisexual. Unless someone knows about sex in the first place, there's no reason to link orientation with sex.

Tell a kid that two people are gay, and if they ask what that means, it's easy enough to answer without even grazing the topic of sex. They are attracted to their own gender. Simple.

Wherever they do it?

That implies that they have sex. Where are you getting this information?

 

[BHRxRacer]

If you can't tell which show I was referring to then you must not have watched animated movies in about 50 years. Or be a Robin Williams fan.


Oh. I don't know. It's not my choice or decision. I cannot speak for or assume to understand an entity such as God. Those who claim to have begun to worship at their own alter.

I'm not a Robin Williams fan. Just googled. I never liked Peter Pan either

Anyway, you're practically agnostic rather than a Christian.

They are attracted to their own gender.

Attracted how?

That implies that they have sex. Where are you getting this information?

It implies they at least want to have sex.

 

[FoolKiller]

Anyway, you're practically agnostic rather than a Christian.

You mean I'm not judgmental?

 

[Exorcet]

Attracted how?

Sexually.

It implies they at least want to have sex.

No it doesn't.