The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[xlDevontelx]

I just don't understand religion. If "God" that has the ability to create a perfect universe, why did he decide to make an imperfect universe? If "God" hates homosexuals so much that he asks all of their followers to condemn and kill, why couldn't he just kill them in the first place? If "Satan" is the reason for homosexuality, why couldn't "God" just destroy Satan and use all of the power in the universe to stop people from being homosexual? If "God" is so powerful and wants the human race to believe in him, why hasn't he presented himself in an obvious way to EVERYONE at once?

That's where faith steps in.

God has the power to make the universe one utopia, but he doesn't, and this, i know, is why;

Have you ever thought about why people honor those who do good? Certainly not because it is easy, nor because it is the most obvious thing to do. Really think about it; if all good deeds were easy to perform, would they really be all that important? Would people who perform those good deeds rather, be as important?

The point I'm trying to get to here, is God doesnt give us an obvious path to right doing, or even to him. He makes it so that we have to come upon him, willing for him to have his way. He allows corruption and wrong doing in the world, just so those who trully seek him, will put there faith in him to work, and truly serve him with every fiber of there being. He makes it hard to stay in christ likeness, simply to test who really, whole heartedly loves him. This is how the true believers are rooted out from the "fake" Christians.

Also, another point. I may only be 20, but I've lived to see many things in my life, and lived to meet many wise people. Those people are wise, not because they've lead perfect lives and have known christ all there lives, but because they've been through something, and they've lived through it (alongside god, of course.) to tell the story. Without obstacles, you don't truly grow as a person. You don't truly expand in wisdom, and in experience in life. Sure, this is the crule rule of life, but its for our good in the end. What doesn't kill you, truly makes you stronger. I'm a living witness.

Last brief point I wanted to make. Satan is, simply because god allows him to be. I understand why that concept could be perplexing to many, as it once was to me, but hopefully I might clarify some. Satan is here to make staying in Christ likeness dufficult. He is there to tempt, to disrupt. He is there to destroy, to take away. But he is also there to let God have the glory at the end of it all.

As christians, and children of Christ, we are incouraged to pray heavily and read our bible often to keep in good relation to our religion. Well, this isn't just for our recreation or passing of free time, this is so when Satan and his demons come in like a flood, we can stand firmly on the word of god. When things in our life seem to crumble apart and fall, when you just can't take it anymore, that's when we retaliate and pray. That's when we involve our selves in the word more heavily then ever. That's when we testify to every spirit that seeks to kill, steal and destroy in our lives.

Now for Christians, this a win-win situation. Not only does, in return to believing prayer and faithfulness, God bring us out of our situation if we stand through the tough, but we also get a closer rationship in him; the very thing that religion is all about.

Hope that makes sense to you @CallmeDan and anyone else who reads.

 

[Imari]

That's where faith steps in.

God has the power to make the universe one utopia, but he doesn't, and this, i know, is why;

Have you ever thought about why people honor those who do good? Certainly not because it is easy, nor because it is the most obvious thing to do. Really think about it; if all good deeds were easy to perform, would they really be all that important? Would people who perform those good deeds rather, be as important?

The point I'm trying to get to here, is God doesnt give us an obvious path to right doing, or even to him. He makes it so that we have to come upon him, willing for him to have his way. He allows corruption and wrong doing in the world, just so those who trully seek him, will put there faith in him to work, and truly serve him with every fiber of there being. He makes it hard to stay in christ likeness, simply to test who really, whole heartedly loves him. This is how the true believers are rooted out from the "fake" Christians.

Also, another point. I may only be 20, but I've lived to see many things in my life, and lived to meet many wise people. Those people are wise, not because they've lead perfect lives and have known christ all there lives, but because they've been through something, and they've lived through it (alongside god, of course.) to tell the story. Without obstacles, you don't truly grow as a person. You don't truly expand in wisdom, and in experience in life. Sure, this is the crule rule of life, but its for our good in the end. What doesn't kill you, truly makes you stronger. I'm a living witness.

Last brief point I wanted to make. Satan is, simply because god allows him to be. I understand why that concept could be perplexing to many, as it once was to me, but hopefully I might clarify some. Satan is here to make staying in Christ likeness dufficult. He is there to tempt, to disrupt. He is there to destroy, to take away. But he is also there to let God have the glory at the end of it all.

As christians, and children of Christ, we are incouraged to pray heavily and read our bible often to keep in good relation to our religion. Well, this isn't just for our recreation or passing of free time, this is so when Satan and his demons come in like a flood, we can stand firmly on the word of god. When things in our life seem to crumble apart and fall, when you just can't take it anymore, that's when we retaliate and pray. That's when we involve our selves in the word more heavily then ever. That's when we testify to every spirit that seeks to kill, steal and destroy in our lives.

Now for Christians, this a win-win situation. Not only does, in return to believing prayer and faithfulness, God bring us out of our situation if we stand through the tough, but we also get a closer rationship in him; the very thing that religion is all about.

Hope that makes sense to you @CallmeDan and anyone else who reads.

TL;DR: Long explanation in which the conclusion is assumed from the start and then the rationale is generated to support that conclusion.

In my opinion, anyone who MAKES a plan of a genocide of any group of people because of traits/features/etc (even if it doesn't go through) should be arrested. They take their freedom (speech in this instance) for granted. Want to take away someone else's life? Start with the perpetrator.

Ah, delicious thoughtcrime. That always goes down a treat.

You find me someone who has never thought of doing something criminal in their life, and I'll have found you a liar.

Nobody gives a rat's patootie what people think. It's what they do that matters.

 

[xlDevontelx]

TL;DR

?

 

[BobK]

?

Too Long; Didn't Read

Actually, you should take this to the God thread.

As christians, and children of Christ, we are incouraged to pray heavily and read our bible often to keep in good relation to our religion

Yeah, I suppose I should do that more. I especially like the part where I'm supposed to slaughter babies by bashing their brains out.

 

[Liquid]

Let's not get too sidetracked here. While there is a crossover in discussion of religion and homosexuality we already have 530+ pages of god bashing and god praising as BobK has linked to.

 

[xlDevontelx]

Actually, you should take this to the God thread.

The person who i orginally was talking to said a few things I felt the need to elaborate on. I know where that post belonged, but I simply didn't care to be quite frank.

No hostility or anything, just giving my reasoning. Not going any further with the off topic posting though, I'll stop here.

Yeah, I suppose I should do that more. I especially like the part where I'm supposed to slaughter babies by bashing their brains out.

....

👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I just don't understand those people. How someone's brain can actually work like that I will never know.

I think the part of it that I have trouble with is that I don't understand why people have never stopped to look at things rationally. I grew up in a small town. My dad and mom had two opposing religious views (well, barely: one was Baptist, one was Roman Catholic), and in my younger years, I was used to pick fights in this regard (is it any wonder they're divorced now? ). I was taken to the Baptist church at a young age and told to go home and tell my mother she was going to burn in hell for having the wrong religion. It was nuts.

As I got older, I stopped to think about everything I knew and could see in the world, and judged situations based on that. The small town(s) I grew up around were hardly forward thinking with regards to sexuality and gender identity, but I was at a pretty young age when I thought about the really simple concept that we're all people. Just as I have a certain type that I prefer, so does every single other person (up to and including those that have no real type, sexually - there's nothing "wrong" with asexual people, which seems a hard one to understand for some folks). So their type happens to include the same genitalia as their own body? Super. So they like both? Super.

...

Staying on subject, friends stumbled upon this gem in class. Gay folks, apparently Wilt Chamberlain was a low target:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...ep-20000-partners-their-short-miserable-lives

Also, "Deathstyle" sounds like a badass vampire fashion line.

 

[Aki Ko]

Ah, delicious thoughtcrime. That always goes down a treat.

You find me someone who has never thought of doing something criminal in their life, and I'll have found you a liar.

Nobody gives a rat's patootie what people think. It's what they do that matters.

It's one thing to be thinking about it.

It's another thing to think AND discuss plans about it.

 

[Imari]

It's one thing to be thinking about it.

It's another thing to think AND discuss plans about it.

That's sort of the point of freedom of speech.

I don't think it's a crime for me to talk about my giant baby blender in which I mix African and Caucasian babies to produce a vanilla and chocolate babyshake. For extra protein.

Words do nothing. I don't think it's possible to distinguish between someone talking about their giant baby blender in jest and me talking about my actual plans to slaughter toddlers. Hence the need for actual action to be sure that a crime is being committed or is going to be.

There's no law against being a dick. Nor should there be. The moment Mr. Final Solution actually attempts to enact any part of his plan for getting rid of gays and AIDS, I'll wholly support locking him away. If he wants to stand on his pulpit and spout bollocks to his friends and on Youtube, best of luck to him.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't think it's a crime for me to talk about my giant baby blender in which I mix African and Caucasian babies to produce a vanilla and chocolate babyshake. For extra protein.

We're all strawberry then, cue a Whitney Houston fade-in....

The moment Mr. Final Solution actually attempts to enact any part of his plan for getting rid of gays and AIDS, I'll wholly support locking him away. If he wants to stand on his pulpit and spout bollocks to his friends and on Youtube, best of luck to him.

This.

 

[Carbonox]

That's sort of the point of freedom of speech.

I don't think it's a crime for me to talk about my giant baby blender in which I mix African and Caucasian babies to produce a vanilla and chocolate babyshake. For extra protein.

Words do nothing. I don't think it's possible to distinguish between someone talking about their giant baby blender in jest and me talking about my actual plans to slaughter toddlers. Hence the need for actual action to be sure that a crime is being committed or is going to be.

There's no law against being a dick. Nor should there be. The moment Mr. Final Solution actually attempts to enact any part of his plan for getting rid of gays and AIDS, I'll wholly support locking him away. If he wants to stand on his pulpit and spout bollocks to his friends and on Youtube, best of luck to him.

I thought threats, such as what this pastor's performing right here, aren't protected by freedom of speech?

 

[LeMansAid]

I thought threats, such as what this pastor's performing right here, aren't protected by freedom of speech?

I think he's walking that fine line between pointing to something, and inciting people to go to that something.

 

[Imari]

I thought threats, such as what this pastor's performing right here, aren't protected by freedom of speech?

Dunno, I only got halfway through the video before I was in serious danger of a fatal overdose of stupid.

Watching it again, it's hardly a serious call to go out and execute homos though. I doubt anyone of sound mind, no matter how homophobic, would watch that video and think "You know, he's right. Jimmy, grab your chainsaw, we're gonna go slaughter some fags."

They might agree with what he's saying, and agree in principal with the solution he's proposing, but anyone who actually does it is a complete mental and was probably just looking for any excuse anyway.

I think he's walking that fine line between pointing to something, and inciting people to go to that something.

Is probably about right. If his speech incites others to go and do bad stuff, I'd say that's criminal on his part too.

But really, what he's saying is about on par with "I think we should invade Afghanistan", which was (and is) considered a completely rational statement by lots of people. Both statements imply the death of a lot of people.

There's nothing wrong with talking about ideas that might result in the death of people. There's a lot wrong with actually following through on those ideas.

 

[Dan]

Staying on subject, friends stumbled upon this gem in class. Gay folks, apparently Wilt Chamberlain was a low target:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...ep-20000-partners-their-short-miserable-lives

Also, "Deathstyle" sounds like a badass vampire fashion line.

TWENTY THOUSAND PARTNERS?! I'm not even mad. I'm impressed that these people came up with such numbers.

 

[TenEightyOne]

TWENTY THOUSAND PARTNERS?! I'm not even mad. I'm impressed that these people came up with such numbers.

Why isn't that credible? It's an upper bound but perfectly believable.

 

[LeMansAid]

But really, what he's saying is about on par with "I think we should invade Afghanistan", which was (and is) considered a completely rational statement by lots of people. Both statements imply the death of a lot of people.

There's nothing wrong with talking about ideas that might result in the death of people. There's a lot wrong with actually following through on those ideas.

Especially when the premise (as opposed to the likely motivation in the preacher case) is for the greater good. The principle of "the needs of the many...." is sound, but I get the sense that the preacher's less concerned about the spread of AIDS and more concerned about the spread of the gay.

Much as I'd hate to do it, I would shoot feral cats for the sake of our native wildlife, and removing emotion, the principle is the same really.

*I laughed out loud to myself when I "accidentally" typed "I would shoot ferals" just then. Freudian indeed.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Why isn't that credible? It's an upper bound but perfectly believable.

It's perfectly believable that someone could average a new sexual partner a day, every single day, for 55 years?

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's perfectly believable that someone could average a new sexual partner a day, every single day, for 55 years?

You traditionalist.

There are 'communities' where monogamy isn't always the rule. One group-of-ten gives you a week and a half off, right?

It is an upper bound and certainly nowhere near the average but I think it's credible. You wouldn't find many people who'd done that, I'm sure.

EDIT: Hmm, on consideration... would casual "repeats" count as new partners... I think they would if they weren't "recordable" enough or "commitments"...

 

[Aki Ko]

It's perfectly believable that someone could average a new sexual partner a day, every single day, for 55 years?

Some people get bored quickly...

 

[BobK]

It's perfectly believable that someone could average a new sexual partner a day, every single day, for 55 years?

Who says you're restricted t a single new partner a day? It can be done in much less than 55 years.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Who says you're restricted t a single new partner a day? It can be done in much less than 55 years.

Nobody says that; I'm just providing that number as an example of what an average day would need to be to hit it. Sure, someone could also have two new partners every single day and be done in 27.5...

Some people get bored quickly...

I don't think I'd even get to know the people well enough to get bored.

You traditionalist.

There are 'communities' where monogamy isn't always the rule. One group-of-ten gives you a week and a half off, right?

It is an upper bound and certainly nowhere near the average but I think it's credible. You wouldn't find many people who'd done that, I'm sure.

EDIT: Hmm, on consideration... would casual "repeats" count as new partners... I think they would if they weren't "recordable" enough or "commitments"...

I'm certainly taking it to mean 20,000 unique individuals. If we're counting repeats - you know, like counting the regular sex in a long-term relationship with one person - then the entire point changes. Which is why the "community" angle doesn't mean much to me, and seems unlikely enough to begin with.

 

[Aki Ko]

I don't think I'd even get to know the people well enough to get bored.

That's when the phrase "A one-night stand" comes into play.

Or people are just eager to have a new person every day for the... "fresh" experience.
I'm not one of them.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I really don't need to be educated on what a one night stand is.

I'm more focused on the fact nobody bats 1000. At some point, some day, someone isn't going to pick up. Over the span of a few decades that becomes pretty much a sure thing. People doubted Chamberlain's claim of half this number. To find a pool of 20,000 different individuals - with a minority sexual orientation no less - is, to put it mildly, a little difficult.

It's a ridiculous stat pulled out of the air by a ridiculous person.

 

[Imari]

Who says you're restricted t a single new partner a day? It can be done in much less than 55 years.

If you're a sex worker or a rampant nymphomaniac with solid financial backing. Just do 20 a day and you'll be done in less than three years.

You'll be chafing like a mofo though.

People doubted Chamberlain's claim of half this number.

I agree. The Chamberlain claim is dubious, but moderately plausible in general terms given what was known of his lifestyle, and the fact that he was a celebrity that probably had women flinging themselves at him.

For random Joe Fagg to do it...nah. Maybe there's one or two people out there, but I sort of doubt it. Frankly, I'd be impressed if any non-sex worker managed to get to a thousand unique lifetime partners. That's a hell of a lot over a really extended period of time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If you're a sex worker or a rampant nymphomaniac with solid financial backing. Just do 20 a day and you'll be done in less than three years...the Chamberlain claim is dubious, but moderately plausible in general terms given what was known of his lifestyle, and the fact that he was a celebrity that probably had women flinging themselves at him.

For random Joe Fagg to do it...nah. Maybe there's one or two people out there, but I sort of doubt it. Frankly, I'd be impressed if any non-sex worker managed to get to a thousand unique lifetime partners. That's a hell of a lot over a really extended period of time.

I agree, it's not likely but it isn't completely unbelievable.

It certainly isn't normal by any means.

I seem to recall that Mick Hucknall (flame-haired crooner) claimed 2000 in a year back-in-the-day. He was "Simply Red" then, of course, and no wonder

 

[LeMansAid]

You'll be chafing like a mofo though.

Mofo eh?..... Only 19999 to go.

 

[Imari]

Mofo eh?..... Only 19999 to go.

I suppose one could always hope to be one of the lucky people with two mommies. That'd be one more off the list.

 

[TenEightyOne]

To find a pool of 20,000 different individuals - with a minority sexual orientation no less - is, to put it mildly, a little difficult.

I was thinking specifically of gay/bi men in which case no, it really really isn't.

 

[Imari]

I was thinking specifically of gay/bi men in which case no, it really really isn't.

Even assuming that all you have to do to pull is go up to someone and say "Do you wanna 🤬?", and that you've got a near legendary 50% strike rate, then year, it is. In reality, it's probably significantly harder than that unless all you're doing is going from gay bathhouse to gay bathhouse and sticking it in anything that wiggles.

Unless you live in one of the largest cities in the world, you'll almost certainly have to travel outside of your home area for a significant proportion of those hook ups, because there simply won't be enough people living close to you, or you'll have to constantly move to get to "fresh" hunting grounds.

Replace gay/bi men with "women" and see how easy you think it would be for a woman to get 20,000 partners. It's doable, but she'd have to work pretty hard for it, even if she was really hot and even taking into account that a significant proportion of men will require little or no coercion to engage in random sex. And this is in a case where she has near 50% of the population as potential targets.

20k is technically possible, but bloody hard even for a normal person. To do it as a minority...how is that less difficult again? To the point that you would say that it's not even a little difficult? Are you sure you're not getting carried away here?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Even assuming that all you have to do to pull is go up to someone and say "Do you wanna 🤬?", and that you've got a near legendary 50% strike rate, then year, it is. In reality, it's probably significantly harder than that unless all you're doing is going from gay bathhouse to gay bathhouse and sticking it in anything that wiggles.

And you think that no such scene exists anywhere? I think you'd find very few people with that kind of total, I'm saying that the total isn't incredible though.