The Illuminati and other Conspiracy Theories thread

Do you think the Illuminati is real?


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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nasa-ufo-video-feed_us_5786a37ce4b08608d332cdd5?yptr=yahoo

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NASA ISS / YOUTUBE
A slow-moving bright object is captured on NASA’s International Space Station live video feed. The object appears to descend toward Earth, prompting UFO spotters to think they got lucky, until the entire image is suddenly deleted or lost€ in transmission. Did NASA deliberately close down the video feed or was it simply part of the normal process of shooting images in space?

This is always claimed when the feed has grey outs. Also isn't this more for the aliens thread?
 
This is always claimed when the feed has grey outs. Also isn't this more for the aliens thread?
Could be, although I don't believe in ET. But equally it could be a conspiracy to cover up evidence of astronomical or military phenomena. Or even none of the above, a routine drop out of the datalink. Amusement is where you find it.
 
Could be, although I don't believe in ET. But equally it could be a conspiracy to cover up evidence of astronomical or military phenomena. Or even none of the above, a routine drop out of the datalink. Amusement is where you find it.

Well I'm only slightly surprised that this was picked up by media rather than on the occasional youtube channel that features it. There are grey outs often enough and thus theories are proposed, even feeds showing dialogue from the astronauts when they're up their and thus having the mic cut out as they go forward with procedure.
 
CERN. What is the purpose of it. Is it just a quest of understanding dark/antimatter? Or is there another agenda? Gateway to other realms etc etc? Are the two things linked.
CERN experienced an emergency shut down coincidental with the recent solar flare. Ground currents apparently overloaded the cryo circuits.

STRONGEST FLARE OF 2016: Sunspot complex AR2565-AR2567 erupted on July 23rd, twice, producing two strong solar flares in quick succession. The first @ 0211 UT registered M5 on the Richter Scale of Flares. The second @ 0516 UT registered M7.6, making it the strongest flare of 2016 so far. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the blast:



Pulses of radiation from the two flares ionized the top of Earth's atmosphere, causing a blackout of shortwave radio transmissions over the Pacific side of Earth. These maps from NOAA show the frequencies and territories affected. People who might have noticed the fading signals include ham radio operators, mariners and aviators.

Update: The explosions hurled an impressive CME into space: movie. The body of the cloud will not hit Earth. However, Earth could experience a glancing blow from shock waves on the outskirts of the cloud ~2 days from now. This has prompted NOAA forecasters to issue a minor geomagnetic storm warning for July 26th. Aurora alerts: text or voice
 
You might wonder why I tied CERN to conspiracy.

The hypothesis is that if the environment can affect CERN, then CERN may affect the environment. It's not merely a powerful tool of study, but potentially a powerful tool to affect the environment.
 
You might wonder why I tied CERN to conspiracy.
You're right; I do.
The hypothesis is that if the environment can affect CERN, then CERN may affect the environment. It's not merely a powerful tool of study, but potentially a powerful tool to affect the environment.
Which has what, exactly, to do with conspiracy and/or illuminati?
 
A youtube video that purports food production is dropping and food prices are rising in response to weather conditions consistent with on oncoming mini ice age.

 
How about this: I don't believe in Illuminati. But I believe big corporations capitalizing things.
Do you mean CAPITALIZING things?:sly: What does "capitalizing things" mean?
 
Do you mean CAPITALIZING things?:sly: What does "capitalizing things" mean?

Perhaps he was trying to say that a handful of global corporations have a massive number of companies and brands underneath them, giving the impression that they could control industries.
 
Well I have just read the whole of this thread.
Illuminati trying to take over the world and in some posts the belief there doing it using chemicals and some folk really believing it and venomously fighting there corner to say so.
Where's the proof I would like to ask as I cannot find anything which suggests such at all.

I am no expert on this subject at all I honestly thought the illuminati was a department of the catholic church, don't know where I got that from maybe a movie with Tom Hanks rings a bell.
 
There have always been so called secret societies, any few of us could do that. Of course the rich and powerful gather with each other to discuss things, birds of a feather. I don't see the big deal or evil conspiracy.

There are plenty of these groups or organization that openly conduct their business such as The Trilateral Commission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

As far as shapeshifters, lizards, wild sex parties, and whatever else, just no.
 
I find the death of Serge Monast wierd . Hey why was my text starting with his name lowered (written in index?)

Also why is every logo illuminati/666/saturn/serpent whatever in the conspiracy theories? Sometimes it's obviously similar but many times I'm surprised how people find all od this. what is the most un"nwo" logo? Hardly any logo like that in conspiracy theories exists
 
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This is a from THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT, issue of 11 September 1920 Henry Ford. (I Don't know if this is the right thread for it and its not my opinion)

The purpose of this article is twofold: to set forth what the Protocols have to say about the relation of the Press to the World Program, and to make an introduction to a study of Jewish influence on the Press.

The Jewish race has always been aware of the advantages to be derived from news. This was one of the factors in its control of European commerce from the earliest Christian times. To be informed beforehand, to know what was coming before the Gentiles among whom they lived knew it, was a special privilege of the Jews, made possible by the close communication in which widely separated Jewish groups kept themselves. From the first they were inveterate correspondents. They were the inventors of the news-letter.

This does not imply, however, that the Jews were the forerunners or even the sponsors of the modern Press. It was no part of their purpose to distribute news among the people, but to keep it for themselves as a secret advantage. The political, economic and commercial news which sped with really remarkable facility throughout Europe, from Jewish community to Jewish community, was in reality the official budget by which each community informed all the others of what was transpiring, as to war, trade currents, rising emergencies, or whatever the matter may have been. For centuries the Jews were the best informed people on the continent; from their secret sources in courts and chancellories, from privileged Jews who were placed in every position of vantage, the whole race was informed of the state of the world.

Scouts were kept in motion everywhere. Far down in South America, before the British or Dutch colonies in North America had hardly secured a foothold, there were Jews who served as outposts for European trade interests. The world was spied out in the interests of their race, just as today the entire planet is under the watchful eyes of Jewish agents—mostly Gentiles, it must be said—for any hint of new gold discoveries.

An interesting and historic illustration of the Jews’ appreciation of news is to be found in the career of Nathan Rothschild. Rothschild had laid all his plans on the assumption that the Emperor Napoleon, then banished to Elba, was finally eliminated from European affairs. Napoleon unexpectedly returned, and in the “Hundred Days” it seemed as if the Rothschild financial edifice might collapse. Feverishly the financier aided both Prussia and England, and as the Battle of Waterloo approached, no one was more interested in the outcome than he.

Rothschild was a man who shrank from the sight of blood; he was physically a coward, and any sign of violence unnerved him; but so intense was his interest in the battle on which his whole fortune seemed to depend, that he hastened to France, followed the British Army, and when the battle began he hid himself in “some shot-proof nook near Hougomont” where he watched all day the ebb and flow of battle. Just before Napoleon ordered the last desperate charge Rothschild had made up his mind. He said afterward that his exclamation at this point was, “The House of Rothschild has won the battle.”

He hurried from the field, galloped wildly to Brussels, communicating not a word of what he knew to the anxious people he met by the way. Hiring a carriage at an exorbitant price, he galloped away to Ostend. Here a fierce storm was raging on the ocean and no sailor was willing to set out for England, about 20 miles away. Rothschild himself, always afraid of danger, forgot his fear in his visions of the stock market. He offered 500, 800, and at length 1,000 francs to the man who would take him across. But no one dared. Finally one sailor proposed that if Rothschild would pay 2,000 francs into his wife’s hands, he would attempt it.

Half dead the two men reached the English coast, but without rest Rothschild ordered express post and hurried away to London. Whip and spur were not spared on that journey.

There were no telegrams in those days, no swift communication. England was anxious. The rumors were bad. And on the morning of June 20, 1815, when Nathan Rothschild appeared in his usual place at the Stock Exchange and leaned against the column, England knew nothing of what he knew. He was pale and broken. The sight of his face led the other financiers to believe that he had received bad news from the front. Then it was seen that he was quietly selling his securities. What? Rothschild unloading? The market dropped disastrously, a very panic seized the financiers, the market was flooded with consols offered for sale—and all that was offered, Rothschild’s agents bought!

So it went on, all day the 20th, and all day the 21st. At the close of business the second day, Rothschild’s heavy chests were crammed with securities. Then in the evening a courier galloped into London with the news that Wellington had won and Napoleon was a fugitive. But Nathan Rothschild had made $10,000,000 and the men he did business with had lost that much—all as an affair of news!

There was a little incident in Washington during the war—a “leak” of news, it was called. The wise men of Wall Street sometimes whisper that even between 1914-1918 there were men of Rothschild’s race who showed his same appreciation of “news,” with the same profitable results. And not only the men of “Rothschild’s race,” but some of their “Gentile fronts,” also.

There were times during the war when no Gentile knew what was going on in certain countries. The Jewish leaders always knew. Some very interesting testimony can be presented on that point.

Aside from its own interest, this Rothschild narrative fully illustrates the statement that while the Jews were very early news-gatherers, they were not publicists. They used the news for their own benefit; they did not disseminate it. If it had depended on their influence, there would have been no public Press at all. It was in France, which had no newspapers outside the capital, that the French Revolution was possible. There being no reliable exchange of news and opinion, the people were kept in ignorance. Paris itself did not know that the Bastille had fallen until next day. Where there is no Press, minorities easily gain control—as the Jewish-Bolshevist revolution in Russia illustrates.

One of the most dangerous developments of the time is public distrust of the Press. If the day ever comes when swift, reliable and authoritative communication with the entire people shall be necessary for public action in the interests of public safety, the nation may find itself sadly crippled unless a new confidence in the daily Press can be built up. If for no other reason than that the free press is a safeguard against minority seizure of control, such laws as the zone laws, or any restrictions on the freest and fullest communication between various parts of the country, should be absolutely abolished.

But, the Press being in existence, and being largely an Anglo-Saxon creation, it is a force not to be treated lightly, and that is the point where the World Program and Jewish Control come in contact with it.

The Protocols, which overlook nothing, propose a very definite plan with regard to the Press. As in the multitude of other matters with which these remarkable documents deal, there are the two phases—“what we have done,” and “what we will do.”

As early as the Second Protocol, the Press comes in for attention. It is significant that it makes its appearance in the same Protocol in which the “No Annexations” program was announced 20 years before the World War, in the same Protocol in which it is announced that Gentile rulers will be allowed to appear before the people for a short period, while Jewish influences were organizing themselves behind the seats of power, and in the same Protocol where Darwinism, Marxism and Nietzscheism are claimed among the most “demoralizing” doctrines which Jewish influence has disseminated. These are very curious statements, but not stranger than the actuality that has come to pass.

Says the Second Protocol:

“There is one great force in the hands of modern governments which creates thought movements among the people, that is, the Press. The presumed role of the Press is to indicate supposedly indispensable needs, to register popular complaints, and to create discontent. The triumph of ‘free speech’ (babbling) rests in the Press. But governments are unable to profit by this power, and it has fallen into our hands. Through it we have attained influence while remaining in the shadow. Thanks to it, we have amassed gold, though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears.”

In the same Protocol, “our Press” is spoken of as the agency through which are disseminated “those theories of life which we have induced them (the Gentiles) to regard as the dictates of science.”

“To this end we shall certainly endeavor to inspire blind confidence in these theories by means of our Press.”

Then follows the claim made concerning the three most revolutionary theories in the physical, economic and moral realms, namely Darwinism, Marxism and Nietzscheism.

In the Third Protocol the claim is made that this control of the Press is being used to break down respect for authority:

“Daring journalists and audacious pamphleteers make daily attack upon the personnel of the administration. This abuse of authority is definitely preparing the downfall of all institutions, and everything will be overturned by blows coming from the infuriated populace.”

Again, in the Seventh Protocol, discussing the progress which the World Program has already made, the part played by the Press is indicated:

“We must force the Gentile governments to adopt measures which will promote our broadly conceived plan already approaching its triumphal goal, by bringing to bear the pressure of stimulated public opinion, which has in reality been organized by us with the help of the so-called ‘great power’ of the Press. With few exceptions not worth considering, it is already in our hands.”

Thus twice is the claim made to control of the Press. “It has fallen into our hands,” says the Second Protocol. “It is already in our hands,” says the Seventh. In the Second Protocol the Press is represented as furthering revolutionary physical, economic and moral philosophies; while in the Seventh it is used to create the “pressure of stimulated public opinion” for the purpose of “forcing Gentile governments to adopt measures which will promote our broadly conceived plan, already approaching its triumphal goal.”

A word of comment may be made here upon the claim of the Second Protocol that “thanks to it (the Press), we have amassed gold, though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears.”

This is a statement which can be illustrated in many ways. “Though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears” is an admission upon which the Protocols throw light, a light which also shines upon the Jewish argument regarding responsibility for the recent war, namely, that Jewish World Financial Power could not have willed the war seeing that Jews suffered so heavily in Eastern Europe. The Protocols frankly recognize the possibility of Jews suffering during the establishment of the World Program, but it consoles them with the thought that they fall as soldiers for the good of Israel. The death of a Jew, we are told in the Protocols, is more precious in the sight of God than the death of a thousand “seed of cattle,” which is one of the delicate names applied to the Gentiles.

The reference to the amassment of gold is very clear. It does not apply to ownership of publications and a share in their profits only, but also the use that may be made of them through silence or outcry to promote International Jewish Financiers’ schemes. The Rothschilds bought editors as they bought legislators. It was a preliminary of nearly every scheme they floated to first “fix” the newspapers, either for silence or claque boosting. In matters of war and peace; in the removal of administrations inimical to Jewish financial or political plans; in the elimination by public exposure of “Gentile fronts” whom their Jewish masters wished to be rid of; in the gradual building up of reputation and influence for “rising men” who had been chosen for work in the future—in these and like matters the Press very greatly aided the International Cabal in attaining its end.

All the details of the foregoing paragraph can be illustrated at length by instances which have occurred in the United States within the past 15 years.

There was once a Senator of the United States who—but that story illustrates another point also, and will be reserved until that point is reached in this series of discussions.

The Twelfth Protocol, however, contains the entire plan of Control of the Press, reaching from the present time into the future when the Jewish World Government shall be established. The reader is invited to read carefully and thoughtfully the deep and wide outreaching of this plan.

Keep also in mind the boast that has been made for generations that no publication that has handled the Jewish Question in a manner distasteful to the Jewish powers has been allowed to live.

“What role is played at present by the Press? It serves to inflame the passions of selfish partisanship which our interests require. It is shallow, lying and unfair, the most people do not understand what end it serves.”

In that quotation we have the same low estimate which was noted when we studied “the estimate of human nature” which the Protocols contain.

Now, for the Plan of Press Control: We separate the points for convenience:

“We shall handle the Press in the following manner:

1. “We shall saddle it and keep tight rein upon it. We shall do the same also with other printed matter, for of what use is it to rid ourselves of attacks in the Press, if we remain exposed to criticism through pamphlets and books?”

2. “Not one announcement will reach the people save under our supervision. We have attained this at the present time to the extent that all news is received through several agencies in which it is centralized from all parts of the world.”

A sidelight on the first sentence above may be had from the Jewish statement regarding the British Declaration relating to Palestine: “This Declaration was sent from the Foreign Office to Lord Walter Rothschild. * * * It came perhaps as a surprise to large sections of the Jewish people * * * But to those who were active in Zionist circles, the declaration was no surprise. * * * The wording of it came from the British Foreign Office, but the text had been revised in the Zionist offices in America as well as in England. The British Declaration was made in the form in which the Zionists desired it. * * *” pp. 85-86, “Guide to Zionism,” by Jessie E. Sampter, published by the Zionist Organization of America.

3. “Literature and journalism are two most important educational forces, and consequently our government will become the owner of most of the journals. * * *If we permit ten private journals, we shall organize thirty of our own, and so on. This must not be suspected by the public, for which reason all the journals published by us will be EXTERNALLY of the most contrary opinions and tendencies thus evoking confidence in them and attracting our unsuspecting opponents,who thus will be caught in our trap and rendered harmless.”

This is most interesting in view of the defense now being made for so many Jewish journals. “Look at the newspapers owned and controlled by Jews,” they say; “see how they differ in policy! See how they disagree with each other!” Certainly, “externally,” as Protocol 12 says, but the underlying unity is never hard to find.

Besides, one way of discovering who are the people that have knowledge of the Jewish World problem, of who can be convinced of it, or who will write about it is just to start a paper which “externally” seems to be independent of the Jewish Question. So deeply is this thought shared by even uneducated Jews that a rumor is today widespread in the United States that the reason for the present series of articles in THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT is the desire of its owner to forward the Jewish World Program! Unfortunately, this scheme of starting a fake opposition in order to discover where the real opposing force is, is not confined to the Jewish Internationalists, although there is every indication that it was learned from them.

This idea of a misrepresentative front for certain secret purposes is expressed at length not only with reference to the Press, but throughout the Protocols in other relations. But in Protocol 12 it is fully developed with regard to the Press, as the following quotations show.

(a) In order to force writers into such long productions that no one will read them, a tax on writing is proposed—“on books of less than 30 pages a double tax.” Small articles are most feared. Therefore doubly tax the pamphlets of less than 30 pages. The longer articles fewer will read, so the Protocols argue, and the double tax will thus “force writers into such long productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be expensive.”

BUT—

“That which we ourselves shall publish for directing the public mind will be cheap and widely read. The tax will discourage mere literary ambition, whereas the fear of punishment will make the writers subservient to us. Even if there should be those who may desire to write against us, no one will publish their writings.”(How many American writers know this!)

“Before accepting any work for printing, the publisher or printer must obtain permission from the authorities. Thus we will know in advance what attacks are being prepared against us and shall be able to counteract them by coming out beforehand with explanations on the subject.”

That is largely the situation today. They do know in advance what is being done, and they do seek to disarm it beforehand.

(b) Here are the Three Degrees of Jewish Journalism, which are not only stated in the Protocols but are observable in the everyday world of the present.

“The leading place will be held by organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests and consequently their influence will be comparatively small.

“The second place will be held by semi-official organs whose aim it will be to attract the indifferent and lukewarm.

“In the third category we shall place organs of apparent opposition. At least one will be extremely antagonistic. Our true opponents will mistake this seeming opposition as belonging to their own group and will thus show us their cards.

“I beg you to notice that among those who attack us there will be organs founded by us, and they will attack exclusively those points which we plan to change or eliminate.

“All our papers will support most diverse opinions: aristocratic, republican, even anarchist, so long of course as the Constitution lives. * * These fools who believe they are repeating the opinions expressed by their party newspapers will be repeating our opinions or those things which we wish them to think.

“By always discussing and contradicting our writings superficially, and without touching upon their essence, our press will keep up a blank fire against the official newspapers, only to give us opportunity to express ourselves in greater detail than we could in our first declaration. This will be done when useful to us.

“These attacks will also convince the people of the full freedom of the press, and it will give our agents the opportunity of declaring that the papers opposing us are mere wind-bags, since they cannot find any real arguments to oppose our orders.”

Undoubtedly that would be the case were all the papers controlled. In the case of the present series of articles, however, the tables appear to be turned. It is the Jewish Press which has so signally failed to bring forward disproof either by fact or argument.

“When necessary, we shall promulgate ideas in the third section of our Press as feelers, and then refute them vigorously in the semi-official press.

“We shall overcome our opponents without fail because they will not have organs of the Press at their disposal.

“The pretext for suppressing a publication will be that it stirs up the public mind without basis of reason”—a pretext which has already been urged time and again, but without the legal power to effect suppression, although without legal power the Jewish interests in the United States have effected a pretty complete suppression of everything they do not desire.

How far does Jewish influence control the Newspapers of the United States?

In so far as the use of the word “Jew” is concerned, the Press is almost completely dominated. The editor who uses it is certain to hear from it. He will be visited and told—contrary to everything the Jew is told—that the word “Jew” denotes a member of a religious denomination and not a member of a race, and that its use with reference to any person spoken of in the public prints is as reprehensible as if “Baptist,” “Catholic,” or “Episcopalian” were used.

The Jew is always told by his leaders that regardless of religion or country of birth, he is a Jew, the member of a race by virtue of blood. Pages of this paper could be filled with the most authoritative Jewish statements on this point. But what the Jew is told by his leaders, and what the Gentile editor is told by the Jewish committee are two different and antagonistic things. A Jewish paper may shriek to the skies that Professor So-and-So, or Judge So-and-So, or Senator So-and-So is a Jew, but the secular newspaper that should do that would be visited by an indignant committee bearing threats.

A certain newspaper, as a mere matter of news, published an excerpt from one of THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT articles. Next day a number of advertising accounts dropped for lack of copy. Inquiry developed the fact that the reticent advertisers were all Jewish firms and the cause of their action was the really unimportant excerpt which the paper published. It developed also that the advertising agent who handled all the advertising for those Jewish firms was himself a Jew who also held an office in a Jewish secret society, which office was concerned exclusively with the control of newspapers in the matter of Jewish publicity. It was this man who dealt with the editor. A lame editorial retraction followed which faintly praised the Jews. The advertising was returned to the paper, and it is just a question whether that editor was rightly handled or not. Certainly he has been made to feel the power. But the diplomacy of it was bad. The editor, along with hundreds of others, has only been given the proper background for estimating the Jewish power in its wider reaches.

This is not to say that every editor should enter upon a campaign to expose the secret power. That is a matter for personal decision. Every editor, however, is so situated that he can see certain things, and he ought to see them, note them, and inwardly digest them.

Jewish publicity in response to these articles is very easy to get in almost any newspaper. Some have fallen most lamentably for lying statements. Others have opened their columns to propaganda sent out from Jewish sources. That is all very well. But the Gentile interest in the question has been largely ignored, even in cases where the editors are awake to the whole Question. This too affords a vantage from which the average editor can view what is transpiring in this country.

If a list of the Jewish owners, bondholders and other interests in our newspapers should be published the list would be impressive. But it would not account for the widespread control of the Press as observed in this country. Indeed, it would be unfair in such a connection as this to list some of the Jewish-owned newspapers of the United States, because their owners are fair and public-spirited servants of the people.

Actual ownership does not often account for much in a newspaper. Ownership in the newspaper business in not always synonymous with control.

If you wish to know the control of the newspaper, look to its attorney and the interests he serves; look to the social connections of its chief editors; look to the advertising agents who handle the bulk of Jewish advertising; and then look to the matter of the paper’s partisanship or independence in politics.

Newspaper control of the Press by the Jews is not a matter of money. It is a matter of keeping certain things out of the public mind and putting certain things into it.

One absolute condition insisted upon with the daily Press is that it shall not identify the Jew, mention him, or in any but the most favorable way call the public’s attention to his existence.

The first plea for this is based on “fairness,” on the false statement that a Jew is not a Jew but a church member. This is the same statement which Jewish agents in the United States Government have used for years to prevent the United States Government from listing the Jews in any racial statistics. It is in direct contradiction to what the Jews themselves are told. A flabby “fairness,” a sloppy “broad-mindedness,” a cry of “religious prejudice,” is the first plea. The second is a sudden cessation of Jewish patronage. The third is withdrawal of patronage by every Gentile concern that is under the grip of Jewish financiers. It is a mere matter of brutal bludgeoning. And the fourth act, in a community thoroughly blinded to the Jewish Question, is the collapse of the offending publication.

Read the Jewish Encyclopedia for a list of some of the papers which dared open up the Question, and ceased!

When old Baron Moses Montefiore said at Krakau:

“What are you prating about? As long as we do not have the press of the whole world in our hands, everything you may do is vain. We must control or influence the papers of the whole world in order to blind and deceive the people.”

—he knew what he was saying. By “blinding” the people he only meant that they should not see the Jew, and by “deceiving” them he only meant that the people should think certain world movements meant one thing when they really meant another. The people may be told what happens: they may not be told what was behind it. The people do not yet know why certain occurrences which have affected their whole lives, should have occurred at all. But the “why” of it is very definitely known in certain circles whose news service never sees print, and sometimes not even writing.

Statistics as to the space given the Jews by newspapers concerning things they want to get into print would also be an eye-opener. A minority nation, they get more publicity than any ten of the important minor nations of Europe—of the kind of publicity they want!

The number of Jewish contributors to the Press of the United States makes another interesting statistical bit. It would be sheer prejudice to make objectionable mention of many Jewish journalists and writers, and they come within the scope of this study only as they have shown themselves to be the watchful agents and active servants of the System. This is what many of them are. Not the ambitious young Jewish reporter who runs around the streets gathering news, perhaps, but the journalist at the seat of the news and at the necks of those two or three important international runways through which the news of the world flows.

The whole matter, as far as extent of control is concerned, could be visualized on a map of the United States, by means of colored pins showing the number of Jewish-owned, provably Jewish-controlled papers, and the number of Jewish writers who are directing the majority thought of the various sections of the country.

The Jewish journalist who panders to unrest, whose literary ambition is to maintain a ferment in his readers, whose humor is sordid and whose philosophy is one of negation; as well as the Jewish novelist who extols his or her own people even while the story sows subtle seeds of disruption in Gentile social or economic life must be listed as the agents of that World Program which would break down society through the agency of “ideas.” And it is very striking how many there are, and how skillfully they conceal their propaganda in their work.

Here and there in the United States it is now becoming possible to print the word “Jew” in the headlines of an article, and tell the Jewish committee which calls the next day that this is yet a free country. Quietly a number of newspapers have tested the strength of this assumed control in their communities, and have discounted it.

There is no reason for fear on the part of the editor who has his facts. But the editor who backs down will more and more feel the pressure upon him. The man who courageously and fairly holds his ground will soon learn another thing that is not so generally known, namely, that with all the brilliance there is a lot of bluff, and that the chain of control once broken is felt throughout the whole system as a blow.

There is nothing that the International Jew fears so much as the truth, or any hint of the truth about himself or his plans. And, after all, the rock of refuge and defense, the foundation of endurance for Jew or Gentile must be the Truth.
 
I honestly think that Audi logo is clean... Oh wait. In theorists minds everything is illuminati.

Also what powerful Jewish people, and others but especially Jews, have to do with logos? Theorists attribute conspiracies to Jews most often. And if they're so powerful, why didn't they stop the war 2? Probably because they are not that powerful as conspiracy theorists say?
 
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This is a from THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT, issue of 11 September 1920 Henry Ford. (I Don't know if this is the right thread for it and its not my opinion)

The purpose of this article is twofold: to set forth what the Protocols have to say about the relation of the Press to the World Program, and to make an introduction to a study of Jewish influence on the Press.

The Jewish race has always been aware of the advantages to be derived from news. This was one of the factors in its control of European commerce from the earliest Christian times. To be informed beforehand, to know what was coming before the Gentiles among whom they lived knew it, was a special privilege of the Jews, made possible by the close communication in which widely separated Jewish groups kept themselves. From the first they were inveterate correspondents. They were the inventors of the news-letter.

This does not imply, however, that the Jews were the forerunners or even the sponsors of the modern Press. It was no part of their purpose to distribute news among the people, but to keep it for themselves as a secret advantage. The political, economic and commercial news which sped with really remarkable facility throughout Europe, from Jewish community to Jewish community, was in reality the official budget by which each community informed all the others of what was transpiring, as to war, trade currents, rising emergencies, or whatever the matter may have been. For centuries the Jews were the best informed people on the continent; from their secret sources in courts and chancellories, from privileged Jews who were placed in every position of vantage, the whole race was informed of the state of the world.

Scouts were kept in motion everywhere. Far down in South America, before the British or Dutch colonies in North America had hardly secured a foothold, there were Jews who served as outposts for European trade interests. The world was spied out in the interests of their race, just as today the entire planet is under the watchful eyes of Jewish agents—mostly Gentiles, it must be said—for any hint of new gold discoveries.

An interesting and historic illustration of the Jews’ appreciation of news is to be found in the career of Nathan Rothschild. Rothschild had laid all his plans on the assumption that the Emperor Napoleon, then banished to Elba, was finally eliminated from European affairs. Napoleon unexpectedly returned, and in the “Hundred Days” it seemed as if the Rothschild financial edifice might collapse. Feverishly the financier aided both Prussia and England, and as the Battle of Waterloo approached, no one was more interested in the outcome than he.

Rothschild was a man who shrank from the sight of blood; he was physically a coward, and any sign of violence unnerved him; but so intense was his interest in the battle on which his whole fortune seemed to depend, that he hastened to France, followed the British Army, and when the battle began he hid himself in “some shot-proof nook near Hougomont” where he watched all day the ebb and flow of battle. Just before Napoleon ordered the last desperate charge Rothschild had made up his mind. He said afterward that his exclamation at this point was, “The House of Rothschild has won the battle.”

He hurried from the field, galloped wildly to Brussels, communicating not a word of what he knew to the anxious people he met by the way. Hiring a carriage at an exorbitant price, he galloped away to Ostend. Here a fierce storm was raging on the ocean and no sailor was willing to set out for England, about 20 miles away. Rothschild himself, always afraid of danger, forgot his fear in his visions of the stock market. He offered 500, 800, and at length 1,000 francs to the man who would take him across. But no one dared. Finally one sailor proposed that if Rothschild would pay 2,000 francs into his wife’s hands, he would attempt it.

Half dead the two men reached the English coast, but without rest Rothschild ordered express post and hurried away to London. Whip and spur were not spared on that journey.

There were no telegrams in those days, no swift communication. England was anxious. The rumors were bad. And on the morning of June 20, 1815, when Nathan Rothschild appeared in his usual place at the Stock Exchange and leaned against the column, England knew nothing of what he knew. He was pale and broken. The sight of his face led the other financiers to believe that he had received bad news from the front. Then it was seen that he was quietly selling his securities. What? Rothschild unloading? The market dropped disastrously, a very panic seized the financiers, the market was flooded with consols offered for sale—and all that was offered, Rothschild’s agents bought!

So it went on, all day the 20th, and all day the 21st. At the close of business the second day, Rothschild’s heavy chests were crammed with securities. Then in the evening a courier galloped into London with the news that Wellington had won and Napoleon was a fugitive. But Nathan Rothschild had made $10,000,000 and the men he did business with had lost that much—all as an affair of news!

There was a little incident in Washington during the war—a “leak” of news, it was called. The wise men of Wall Street sometimes whisper that even between 1914-1918 there were men of Rothschild’s race who showed his same appreciation of “news,” with the same profitable results. And not only the men of “Rothschild’s race,” but some of their “Gentile fronts,” also.

There were times during the war when no Gentile knew what was going on in certain countries. The Jewish leaders always knew. Some very interesting testimony can be presented on that point.

Aside from its own interest, this Rothschild narrative fully illustrates the statement that while the Jews were very early news-gatherers, they were not publicists. They used the news for their own benefit; they did not disseminate it. If it had depended on their influence, there would have been no public Press at all. It was in France, which had no newspapers outside the capital, that the French Revolution was possible. There being no reliable exchange of news and opinion, the people were kept in ignorance. Paris itself did not know that the Bastille had fallen until next day. Where there is no Press, minorities easily gain control—as the Jewish-Bolshevist revolution in Russia illustrates.

One of the most dangerous developments of the time is public distrust of the Press. If the day ever comes when swift, reliable and authoritative communication with the entire people shall be necessary for public action in the interests of public safety, the nation may find itself sadly crippled unless a new confidence in the daily Press can be built up. If for no other reason than that the free press is a safeguard against minority seizure of control, such laws as the zone laws, or any restrictions on the freest and fullest communication between various parts of the country, should be absolutely abolished.

But, the Press being in existence, and being largely an Anglo-Saxon creation, it is a force not to be treated lightly, and that is the point where the World Program and Jewish Control come in contact with it.

The Protocols, which overlook nothing, propose a very definite plan with regard to the Press. As in the multitude of other matters with which these remarkable documents deal, there are the two phases—“what we have done,” and “what we will do.”

As early as the Second Protocol, the Press comes in for attention. It is significant that it makes its appearance in the same Protocol in which the “No Annexations” program was announced 20 years before the World War, in the same Protocol in which it is announced that Gentile rulers will be allowed to appear before the people for a short period, while Jewish influences were organizing themselves behind the seats of power, and in the same Protocol where Darwinism, Marxism and Nietzscheism are claimed among the most “demoralizing” doctrines which Jewish influence has disseminated. These are very curious statements, but not stranger than the actuality that has come to pass.

Says the Second Protocol:

“There is one great force in the hands of modern governments which creates thought movements among the people, that is, the Press. The presumed role of the Press is to indicate supposedly indispensable needs, to register popular complaints, and to create discontent. The triumph of ‘free speech’ (babbling) rests in the Press. But governments are unable to profit by this power, and it has fallen into our hands. Through it we have attained influence while remaining in the shadow. Thanks to it, we have amassed gold, though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears.”

In the same Protocol, “our Press” is spoken of as the agency through which are disseminated “those theories of life which we have induced them (the Gentiles) to regard as the dictates of science.”

“To this end we shall certainly endeavor to inspire blind confidence in these theories by means of our Press.”

Then follows the claim made concerning the three most revolutionary theories in the physical, economic and moral realms, namely Darwinism, Marxism and Nietzscheism.

In the Third Protocol the claim is made that this control of the Press is being used to break down respect for authority:

“Daring journalists and audacious pamphleteers make daily attack upon the personnel of the administration. This abuse of authority is definitely preparing the downfall of all institutions, and everything will be overturned by blows coming from the infuriated populace.”

Again, in the Seventh Protocol, discussing the progress which the World Program has already made, the part played by the Press is indicated:

“We must force the Gentile governments to adopt measures which will promote our broadly conceived plan already approaching its triumphal goal, by bringing to bear the pressure of stimulated public opinion, which has in reality been organized by us with the help of the so-called ‘great power’ of the Press. With few exceptions not worth considering, it is already in our hands.”

Thus twice is the claim made to control of the Press. “It has fallen into our hands,” says the Second Protocol. “It is already in our hands,” says the Seventh. In the Second Protocol the Press is represented as furthering revolutionary physical, economic and moral philosophies; while in the Seventh it is used to create the “pressure of stimulated public opinion” for the purpose of “forcing Gentile governments to adopt measures which will promote our broadly conceived plan, already approaching its triumphal goal.”

A word of comment may be made here upon the claim of the Second Protocol that “thanks to it (the Press), we have amassed gold, though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears.”

This is a statement which can be illustrated in many ways. “Though it has cost us torrents of blood and tears” is an admission upon which the Protocols throw light, a light which also shines upon the Jewish argument regarding responsibility for the recent war, namely, that Jewish World Financial Power could not have willed the war seeing that Jews suffered so heavily in Eastern Europe. The Protocols frankly recognize the possibility of Jews suffering during the establishment of the World Program, but it consoles them with the thought that they fall as soldiers for the good of Israel. The death of a Jew, we are told in the Protocols, is more precious in the sight of God than the death of a thousand “seed of cattle,” which is one of the delicate names applied to the Gentiles.

The reference to the amassment of gold is very clear. It does not apply to ownership of publications and a share in their profits only, but also the use that may be made of them through silence or outcry to promote International Jewish Financiers’ schemes. The Rothschilds bought editors as they bought legislators. It was a preliminary of nearly every scheme they floated to first “fix” the newspapers, either for silence or claque boosting. In matters of war and peace; in the removal of administrations inimical to Jewish financial or political plans; in the elimination by public exposure of “Gentile fronts” whom their Jewish masters wished to be rid of; in the gradual building up of reputation and influence for “rising men” who had been chosen for work in the future—in these and like matters the Press very greatly aided the International Cabal in attaining its end.

All the details of the foregoing paragraph can be illustrated at length by instances which have occurred in the United States within the past 15 years.

There was once a Senator of the United States who—but that story illustrates another point also, and will be reserved until that point is reached in this series of discussions.

The Twelfth Protocol, however, contains the entire plan of Control of the Press, reaching from the present time into the future when the Jewish World Government shall be established. The reader is invited to read carefully and thoughtfully the deep and wide outreaching of this plan.

Keep also in mind the boast that has been made for generations that no publication that has handled the Jewish Question in a manner distasteful to the Jewish powers has been allowed to live.

“What role is played at present by the Press? It serves to inflame the passions of selfish partisanship which our interests require. It is shallow, lying and unfair, the most people do not understand what end it serves.”

In that quotation we have the same low estimate which was noted when we studied “the estimate of human nature” which the Protocols contain.

Now, for the Plan of Press Control: We separate the points for convenience:

“We shall handle the Press in the following manner:

1. “We shall saddle it and keep tight rein upon it. We shall do the same also with other printed matter, for of what use is it to rid ourselves of attacks in the Press, if we remain exposed to criticism through pamphlets and books?”

2. “Not one announcement will reach the people save under our supervision. We have attained this at the present time to the extent that all news is received through several agencies in which it is centralized from all parts of the world.”

A sidelight on the first sentence above may be had from the Jewish statement regarding the British Declaration relating to Palestine: “This Declaration was sent from the Foreign Office to Lord Walter Rothschild. * * * It came perhaps as a surprise to large sections of the Jewish people * * * But to those who were active in Zionist circles, the declaration was no surprise. * * * The wording of it came from the British Foreign Office, but the text had been revised in the Zionist offices in America as well as in England. The British Declaration was made in the form in which the Zionists desired it. * * *” pp. 85-86, “Guide to Zionism,” by Jessie E. Sampter, published by the Zionist Organization of America.

3. “Literature and journalism are two most important educational forces, and consequently our government will become the owner of most of the journals. * * *If we permit ten private journals, we shall organize thirty of our own, and so on. This must not be suspected by the public, for which reason all the journals published by us will be EXTERNALLY of the most contrary opinions and tendencies thus evoking confidence in them and attracting our unsuspecting opponents,who thus will be caught in our trap and rendered harmless.”

This is most interesting in view of the defense now being made for so many Jewish journals. “Look at the newspapers owned and controlled by Jews,” they say; “see how they differ in policy! See how they disagree with each other!” Certainly, “externally,” as Protocol 12 says, but the underlying unity is never hard to find.

Besides, one way of discovering who are the people that have knowledge of the Jewish World problem, of who can be convinced of it, or who will write about it is just to start a paper which “externally” seems to be independent of the Jewish Question. So deeply is this thought shared by even uneducated Jews that a rumor is today widespread in the United States that the reason for the present series of articles in THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT is the desire of its owner to forward the Jewish World Program! Unfortunately, this scheme of starting a fake opposition in order to discover where the real opposing force is, is not confined to the Jewish Internationalists, although there is every indication that it was learned from them.

This idea of a misrepresentative front for certain secret purposes is expressed at length not only with reference to the Press, but throughout the Protocols in other relations. But in Protocol 12 it is fully developed with regard to the Press, as the following quotations show.

(a) In order to force writers into such long productions that no one will read them, a tax on writing is proposed—“on books of less than 30 pages a double tax.” Small articles are most feared. Therefore doubly tax the pamphlets of less than 30 pages. The longer articles fewer will read, so the Protocols argue, and the double tax will thus “force writers into such long productions that they will be little read, especially as they will be expensive.”

BUT—

“That which we ourselves shall publish for directing the public mind will be cheap and widely read. The tax will discourage mere literary ambition, whereas the fear of punishment will make the writers subservient to us. Even if there should be those who may desire to write against us, no one will publish their writings.”(How many American writers know this!)

“Before accepting any work for printing, the publisher or printer must obtain permission from the authorities. Thus we will know in advance what attacks are being prepared against us and shall be able to counteract them by coming out beforehand with explanations on the subject.”

That is largely the situation today. They do know in advance what is being done, and they do seek to disarm it beforehand.

(b) Here are the Three Degrees of Jewish Journalism, which are not only stated in the Protocols but are observable in the everyday world of the present.

“The leading place will be held by organs of an official character. They will always stand guard over our interests and consequently their influence will be comparatively small.

“The second place will be held by semi-official organs whose aim it will be to attract the indifferent and lukewarm.

“In the third category we shall place organs of apparent opposition. At least one will be extremely antagonistic. Our true opponents will mistake this seeming opposition as belonging to their own group and will thus show us their cards.

“I beg you to notice that among those who attack us there will be organs founded by us, and they will attack exclusively those points which we plan to change or eliminate.

“All our papers will support most diverse opinions: aristocratic, republican, even anarchist, so long of course as the Constitution lives. * * These fools who believe they are repeating the opinions expressed by their party newspapers will be repeating our opinions or those things which we wish them to think.

“By always discussing and contradicting our writings superficially, and without touching upon their essence, our press will keep up a blank fire against the official newspapers, only to give us opportunity to express ourselves in greater detail than we could in our first declaration. This will be done when useful to us.

“These attacks will also convince the people of the full freedom of the press, and it will give our agents the opportunity of declaring that the papers opposing us are mere wind-bags, since they cannot find any real arguments to oppose our orders.”

Undoubtedly that would be the case were all the papers controlled. In the case of the present series of articles, however, the tables appear to be turned. It is the Jewish Press which has so signally failed to bring forward disproof either by fact or argument.

“When necessary, we shall promulgate ideas in the third section of our Press as feelers, and then refute them vigorously in the semi-official press.

“We shall overcome our opponents without fail because they will not have organs of the Press at their disposal.

“The pretext for suppressing a publication will be that it stirs up the public mind without basis of reason”—a pretext which has already been urged time and again, but without the legal power to effect suppression, although without legal power the Jewish interests in the United States have effected a pretty complete suppression of everything they do not desire.

How far does Jewish influence control the Newspapers of the United States?

In so far as the use of the word “Jew” is concerned, the Press is almost completely dominated. The editor who uses it is certain to hear from it. He will be visited and told—contrary to everything the Jew is told—that the word “Jew” denotes a member of a religious denomination and not a member of a race, and that its use with reference to any person spoken of in the public prints is as reprehensible as if “Baptist,” “Catholic,” or “Episcopalian” were used.

The Jew is always told by his leaders that regardless of religion or country of birth, he is a Jew, the member of a race by virtue of blood. Pages of this paper could be filled with the most authoritative Jewish statements on this point. But what the Jew is told by his leaders, and what the Gentile editor is told by the Jewish committee are two different and antagonistic things. A Jewish paper may shriek to the skies that Professor So-and-So, or Judge So-and-So, or Senator So-and-So is a Jew, but the secular newspaper that should do that would be visited by an indignant committee bearing threats.

A certain newspaper, as a mere matter of news, published an excerpt from one of THE DEARBORN INDEPENDENT articles. Next day a number of advertising accounts dropped for lack of copy. Inquiry developed the fact that the reticent advertisers were all Jewish firms and the cause of their action was the really unimportant excerpt which the paper published. It developed also that the advertising agent who handled all the advertising for those Jewish firms was himself a Jew who also held an office in a Jewish secret society, which office was concerned exclusively with the control of newspapers in the matter of Jewish publicity. It was this man who dealt with the editor. A lame editorial retraction followed which faintly praised the Jews. The advertising was returned to the paper, and it is just a question whether that editor was rightly handled or not. Certainly he has been made to feel the power. But the diplomacy of it was bad. The editor, along with hundreds of others, has only been given the proper background for estimating the Jewish power in its wider reaches.

This is not to say that every editor should enter upon a campaign to expose the secret power. That is a matter for personal decision. Every editor, however, is so situated that he can see certain things, and he ought to see them, note them, and inwardly digest them.

Jewish publicity in response to these articles is very easy to get in almost any newspaper. Some have fallen most lamentably for lying statements. Others have opened their columns to propaganda sent out from Jewish sources. That is all very well. But the Gentile interest in the question has been largely ignored, even in cases where the editors are awake to the whole Question. This too affords a vantage from which the average editor can view what is transpiring in this country.

If a list of the Jewish owners, bondholders and other interests in our newspapers should be published the list would be impressive. But it would not account for the widespread control of the Press as observed in this country. Indeed, it would be unfair in such a connection as this to list some of the Jewish-owned newspapers of the United States, because their owners are fair and public-spirited servants of the people.

Actual ownership does not often account for much in a newspaper. Ownership in the newspaper business in not always synonymous with control.

If you wish to know the control of the newspaper, look to its attorney and the interests he serves; look to the social connections of its chief editors; look to the advertising agents who handle the bulk of Jewish advertising; and then look to the matter of the paper’s partisanship or independence in politics.

Newspaper control of the Press by the Jews is not a matter of money. It is a matter of keeping certain things out of the public mind and putting certain things into it.

One absolute condition insisted upon with the daily Press is that it shall not identify the Jew, mention him, or in any but the most favorable way call the public’s attention to his existence.

The first plea for this is based on “fairness,” on the false statement that a Jew is not a Jew but a church member. This is the same statement which Jewish agents in the United States Government have used for years to prevent the United States Government from listing the Jews in any racial statistics. It is in direct contradiction to what the Jews themselves are told. A flabby “fairness,” a sloppy “broad-mindedness,” a cry of “religious prejudice,” is the first plea. The second is a sudden cessation of Jewish patronage. The third is withdrawal of patronage by every Gentile concern that is under the grip of Jewish financiers. It is a mere matter of brutal bludgeoning. And the fourth act, in a community thoroughly blinded to the Jewish Question, is the collapse of the offending publication.

Read the Jewish Encyclopedia for a list of some of the papers which dared open up the Question, and ceased!

When old Baron Moses Montefiore said at Krakau:

“What are you prating about? As long as we do not have the press of the whole world in our hands, everything you may do is vain. We must control or influence the papers of the whole world in order to blind and deceive the people.”

—he knew what he was saying. By “blinding” the people he only meant that they should not see the Jew, and by “deceiving” them he only meant that the people should think certain world movements meant one thing when they really meant another. The people may be told what happens: they may not be told what was behind it. The people do not yet know why certain occurrences which have affected their whole lives, should have occurred at all. But the “why” of it is very definitely known in certain circles whose news service never sees print, and sometimes not even writing.

Statistics as to the space given the Jews by newspapers concerning things they want to get into print would also be an eye-opener. A minority nation, they get more publicity than any ten of the important minor nations of Europe—of the kind of publicity they want!

The number of Jewish contributors to the Press of the United States makes another interesting statistical bit. It would be sheer prejudice to make objectionable mention of many Jewish journalists and writers, and they come within the scope of this study only as they have shown themselves to be the watchful agents and active servants of the System. This is what many of them are. Not the ambitious young Jewish reporter who runs around the streets gathering news, perhaps, but the journalist at the seat of the news and at the necks of those two or three important international runways through which the news of the world flows.

The whole matter, as far as extent of control is concerned, could be visualized on a map of the United States, by means of colored pins showing the number of Jewish-owned, provably Jewish-controlled papers, and the number of Jewish writers who are directing the majority thought of the various sections of the country.

The Jewish journalist who panders to unrest, whose literary ambition is to maintain a ferment in his readers, whose humor is sordid and whose philosophy is one of negation; as well as the Jewish novelist who extols his or her own people even while the story sows subtle seeds of disruption in Gentile social or economic life must be listed as the agents of that World Program which would break down society through the agency of “ideas.” And it is very striking how many there are, and how skillfully they conceal their propaganda in their work.

Here and there in the United States it is now becoming possible to print the word “Jew” in the headlines of an article, and tell the Jewish committee which calls the next day that this is yet a free country. Quietly a number of newspapers have tested the strength of this assumed control in their communities, and have discounted it.

There is no reason for fear on the part of the editor who has his facts. But the editor who backs down will more and more feel the pressure upon him. The man who courageously and fairly holds his ground will soon learn another thing that is not so generally known, namely, that with all the brilliance there is a lot of bluff, and that the chain of control once broken is felt throughout the whole system as a blow.

There is nothing that the International Jew fears so much as the truth, or any hint of the truth about himself or his plans. And, after all, the rock of refuge and defense, the foundation of endurance for Jew or Gentile must be the Truth.
Ah yes from the pen of Mr Ford, a rather well know anti-Semite and fan of Hitler.

Given that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion has been shown to be a fake repeatedly its evidence of nothing more than the depths people will go to in an attempt to vilify those they are ignorant of.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion
 
Relying on Wikipedia to refute an argument, is like jousting while stood on the back of a camel. Look up Maurice Joly, Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu 1864 predates Henry Ford 1920 by margin. Chicken or the egg?[rhetorical].

Of course if the Protocols of the Elders were not a hoax, then would the powers that be not want to discredit it, by describing it as a hoax?

Of course I could be a satirist !

https://archive.org/stream/Dialogue...HellBetweenMachiavelliAndMontesquieu_djvu.txt

Or it could all be ********. Evidence that it is real or fake is impossible to come by.
 
Relying on Wikipedia to refute an argument, is like jousting while stood on the back of a camel. Look up Maurice Joly, Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu 1864 predates Henry Ford 1920 by margin. Chicken or the egg?[rhetorical].

Of course if the Protocols of the Elders were not a hoax, then would the powers that be not want to discredit it, by describing it as a hoax?

Of course I could be a satirist !

https://archive.org/stream/Dialogue...HellBetweenMachiavelliAndMontesquieu_djvu.txt

Or it could all be ********. Evidence that it is real or fake is impossible to come by.
I do like how transparent you make your failure to even bother to follow the link.

It's not Wikipedia.

Oh and a number of count case have been held in regard to its authenticity, but of course you will I suspect simply dismiss them.

Oh and in terms of evolution, it's the egg.
 
I do like how transparent you make your failure to even bother to follow the link.

It's not Wikipedia.

Oh and a number of count case have been held in regard to its authenticity, but of course you will I suspect simply dismiss them.

Oh and in terms of evolution, it's the egg.

I agree about the egg.

I'd like a link to one of these court cases.

My bad, but rationalwiki is worse then wikipedia.

You want evidence witha rational source Benjamin Disreali "The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

That sentence needs to be discussed. The illuminati is just a word.
 
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You want evidence witha rational source Benjamin Disreali "The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

That sentence needs to be discussed. The illuminati is just a word.
Politicians come and go. But the hereditary elite in finance and industry may span centuries. They may join together in long-lived associations to pursue certain agendas. Christianity, Masonry and even heretical organizations may persist over time.
 
Politicians come and go. But the hereditary elite in finance and industry may span centuries. They may join together in long-lived associations to pursue certain agendas. Christianity, Masonry and even heretical organizations may persist over time.
If political places (positions) could be inherited like in old times it would be different, and industry and finance would be weaker. Freemasonry exists for a long time but they are still all over the place, and not one. Some lodges allow women, some don't. Many differences exist.
 
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