The Illuminati and other Conspiracy Theories thread

[x3ra]

I'm also currently compiling a mental list of exactly which conspiracy theory's you subscribe to and what order the are going to come out in!

Good, when I get older I may consult you for reminders. You may have a problem with this one though, since at no time have I ever said that they were real, nor a forgery. It was you who said they were a forgery. If a judge says they're a forgery then they must be. (I'm sure this is logical, since a judge has never lied).

In fact I would also be inclined to believe the timeline from here. https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007244

This page offers a few interesting points.

1)The conspiracy and its leaders, the so-called Elders of Zion, never existed.

So the Elders of Zion never existed. So is that why it's a forgery. Fine, I'm willing to accept that.

2) 1864 French political satirist Maurice Joly writes The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu. Joly's book never mentions Jews, but much of the Protocols would be fabricated based on ideas contained in it.

So the protocols are a forgery of The Dialogue in Hell? Since we can't discuss the Protocols, we can of course discuss The Dialogue in Hell.

SInce the Protocols were never reported to be in print for a number of years after this then, this would be a likely conclusion.(But it's not a proof)

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Actually, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are very, very real. They outline a vast conspiracy between the secret rulers of the world - Kevin Feige, Joss Whedon, Jon Favreau and Robert Downey Jnr. - to pay off film reviewers to trash DC productions and praise Marvel.

 

[x3ra]

Actually by definition they are actually an example of Pseudoepigrapha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha rather then a forgery. Would you agree?

 

[Scaff]

Good, when I get older I may consult you for reminders. You may have a problem with this one though, since at no time have I ever said that they were real, nor a forgery. It was you who said they were a forgery. If a judge says they're a forgery then they must be. (I'm sure this is logical, since a judge has never lied).

In fact I would also be inclined to believe the timeline from here. https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007244

This page offers a few interesting points.

Good job I didn't just base it on the the court verdict then (you were the one who wanted to focus on that).

The main point I disagreed with you one was:

"Evidence that it is real or fake is impossible to come by"

When actually a great deal of evidence to support it being a fake exists and none that is credible to support it being real.

So the Elders of Zion never existed. So is that why it's a forgery. Fine, I'm willing to accept that.

Even if they were it wouldn't automatically make them genuine. Hitler was very real, but the Hitler Diaries the The Times published extracts from in the '80s were very fake.

So the protocols are a forgery of The Dialogue in Hell? Since we can't discuss the Protocols, we can of course discuss The Dialogue in Hell.

I've not said they can't be talked about, I've said they can't be considered to be proof of a NWO or Zionist plot to rule the world.

SInce the Protocols were never reported to be in print for a number of years after this then, this would be a likely conclusion.(But it's not a proof)

Something being out of print is proof of one thing only, that it was out of print.

The evidence for it being a fake is that its quite clearly and demonstrably been created by a mild reworking of at least three works of fiction, no evidence of the existence of the Elders of Zion has even been shown to stand scrutiny and no evidence of a global Zionist NWO plot has ever been shown to stand scrutiny.

No that's not to say that I would not review that view based on new evidence, but I've never seen anything that is even close to credible. However given the time it came to light it being an anti-Semitic work of propaganda is very high.

 

[x3ra]

And my point is that if any evidence came to light, say for example a copy dated 1800 that's been lying in a back room of a museum for example. Then the evidence so far presented would be wrong, and as such cannot be held as proof, now. No, I don't expect that to happen.

Of course that also presupposes that there were any Elders of Zion.

So is the world deliberately being steered towards a one world government? If it is deliberate, then what evidence would you need in order to find this to be true?

 

[TenEightyOne]

And my point is that if any evidence came to light, say for example a copy dated 1800 that's been lying in a back room of a museum for example. Then the evidence so far presented would be wrong, and as such cannot be held as proof, now. No, I don't expect that to happen.

So you've answered your own point. I'd be happy to examine definitive proof that God exists but I place no store in the likelihood of that happening.

In the case in point we cam assess the likelihood of that original 1800 manuscript emerging proving that in fact the document in question isn't a later parody of an already-known work. I'd say the likelihood is zero, personally.

 

[Dotini]

in this link are some the best available videos on the UFO sightings often referred to as triangles at night.
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/08/latest-footage-of-triangle-ufo-may-be-clearest-to-date/

I put this here in the Illuminati thread since they are referred to as possible source of the phenomenon, along with aliens and government. And also because Hillary Clinton, now likely the next president, has promised more forthcoming government disclosure though her campaign manager, Podesta.

 

[FoRiZon]

Did anyone realized that the "Triangle with one eye" represents god?

 

[Dotini]

Did anyone realized that the "Triangle with one eye" represents god?

Now that you mention it, hmmm, yes it does resemble certain Egyptian or Masonic symbology. The UFO phenomenon since its inception - potentially the Paleolithic - has always seemed to be steeped in mythological, religious and other memetic motifs. It is not entirely ruled out that a higher power is keeping an eye on us!

The well-known Belgium black triangle UFO wave of 1989-90 featured this:

• A supposed black triangle, 15 June 1990, Wallonia, Belgium. Claimed to have been taken during the UFO wave. A similar photo was taken in Petit-Rechain on 4 April 1990.[4]

 

[Neddo]

it's not exactly triunglar

 

[Dotini]

it's not exactly triunglar

IMO it's not exactly solid, either. Radar returns indicate it can accelerate at insane rates, and maybe even dip below ground level, indicating a system which lacks mass. It may be mostly electrons and metallic dust in a shapeshifting plasma, disguised as a comforting symbol we can relate to.

 

[Scaff]

And my point is that if any evidence came to light, say for example a copy dated 1800 that's been lying in a back room of a museum for example. Then the evidence so far presented would be wrong, and as such cannot be held as proof, now. No, I don't expect that to happen.

I've already said that any new credible evidence would need to be examined, but what shouldn't happen is that it be assumed to exist.

Of course that also presupposes that there were any Elders of Zion.

which again would still not be proof of the work's authenticity, see my earlier comment about the Hitler diaries.

So is the world deliberately being steered towards a one world government? If it is deliberate, then what evidence would you need in order to find this to be true?

Credible evidence of an orchestrated group doing just that, what form the evidence would take is to a degree immaterial, its credibility is however very material.

A bunch of rich folk meeting on a regular basis for example the Bilderburg group, is not credible evidence of a NWO, its evidence only of rich people meeting (and given that the NWO is supposed to be a secret cabal, they would be failing rather spectacularly).

 

[FoRiZon]

Now that you mention it, hmmm, yes it does resemble certain Egyptian or Masonic symbology. The UFO phenomenon since its inception - potentially the Paleolithic - has always seemed to be steeped in mythological, religious and other memetic motifs. It is not entirely ruled out that a higher power is keeping an eye on us!

The well-known Belgium black triangle UFO wave of 1989-90 featured this:

• A supposed black triangle, 15 June 1990, Wallonia, Belgium. Claimed to have been taken during the UFO wave. A similar photo was taken in Petit-Rechain on 4 April 1990.[4]

Its just ridiculous that people denounce the symbol as "false god". Though when you think about it, it does indicates Amon Ra, the sun gods.

But really, in nowadays context it represents god no matter the religion. So yeah.

 

[Neddo]

Btw, Nikola Tesla knew how to extract electricity from atmosphere but evil companies shut him down? Maybe. Maybe NOT

 

[niky]

Btw, Nikola Tesla knew how to extract electricity from atmosphere but evil companies shut him down. Maybe.

*citation required*

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The only evil company that could have done that at the time was Edison. And Edison would have been a fool not to pursue such a potentially profitable enterprise.


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What Tesla actually did was devise a method for wireless transmission of electricity. Which was simply too impractical for commercial use.

 

[Neddo]

Which was simply too impractical for commercial use.

Possibly the rational and real reason why you could never profit of wireless electricity. It was generally impractical too (and still is). Although I doubt it would be more popular than oil. And there is still sun and solar energy is inevitable future.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What Tesla actually did was devise a method for wireless transmission of electricity. Which was simply too impractical for commercial use.

It killed a lot of pigeons during development. True story.

 

[Neddo]

Yea solar electricity is best

 

[Dotini]

Btw, Nikola Tesla knew how to extract electricity from atmosphere but evil companies shut him down. Maybe.

I believe it was Westinghouse who was funding Tesla's research on wireless transmission of electrical current. When it became clear that Tesla's energy couldn't be metered and charged for - i.e., not commercially profitable - Westinghouse ceased the funding. When Tesla died in a New York City penthouse many decades later, the FBI seized all his notes and papers. They haven't been seen since.

 

[Neddo]

I don't know but wouldn't wireless electricity mean easier wars, less safety, more laziness and consumerism. Maybe it's better to pay for electricity.

 

[Dotini]

I don't know but wouldn't wireless electricity mean easier wars, less safety, more laziness and consumerism. Maybe it's better to pay for electricity.

It's certainly better for business. And the business of America is business.

 

[niky]

Metering is only part of the problem. You could get around that by using wireless transmission in enclosed areas, to simplify the installation of electrical power in buildings, for example... where metering and controlling use would not be a problem. In fact, this is what is being experimented with today, with WiFi systems that also transmit power... and with commercially available wireless charging and induction systems for small devices.

From there, you can increase the range to cover more area. Campuses? Military installations? Hospitals? I can think of a number of applications for efficient wireless power where metering won't be an issue.

The problem is, efficiency is not quite the same as a wired system. It's convenient when talking about handheld devices with low power consumption, but the efficiency will never be as good as a wired system, and the drop-off in efficiency greatly increases with range.

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In the end, you can easily bypass the metering and range issue by using highly directional power transmission with lasers or microwaves... but such solutions are expensive to set up and maintain compared to stringing out incredibly cheap and efficient copper wire from point to point.

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In fact, when you get down to the brass tacks... why bother with the step losses and maintenance issues of a wireless system when wires and wired transmission are so cheap to install and use?

It's the same issue with flying cars... why bother with a fiddly, expensive transportation solution that will consume more fuel, put more people in danger and possibly prove grossly impractical when you have much simpler wheeled vehicles that can get fifty to sixty miles to the gallon?

-----

Conspiracy theorists love to think that industrialists suppress technologies simply because... but the truth of the matter is, if the technology works and is patentable, no industrialist in his right mind would pass up the opportunity to have sole control over groundbreaking - and profitable - technology.

 

[Neddo]

On the other hand, one famous conspiracy journalist posted a fb status about Paris attacks way back in November and apparently mysterious forces removed. His tv show isn't promoted but still far from shut down.

 

[TenEightyOne]

On the other hand, one famous conspiracy journalist posted a fb status about Paris attacks way back in November and apparently mysterious forces removed. His tv show isn't promoted but still far from shut down.

If you mean the bot that posted two days before then no, that's just a fluke. If you give enough bots enough twitter accounts then that will happen, as we can see. Got a link a story about the journo? Shouldn't take long to see if that bot was his "source"...

 

[Neddo]

If you mean the bot that posted two days before then no, that's just a fluke. If you give enough bots enough twitter accounts then that will happen, as we can see. Got a link a story about the journo? Shouldn't take long to see if that bot was his "source"...

neither of these.
http://hr.n1info.com/a85266/Svijet/Regija/Izbrisan-s-Facebooka-Kome-smeta-tekst-solidarnosti.html

It isn't in english but basically a status was removed and journalist commended favorisation of Paris attacks and underrating attacks in Sirya, Palestine, Iraq and so on. He said that we should put flags of all those countries and don't consider anybody else less worthy. Wierd that this was removed, because he posts lots of conspiracy theories (mostly NWO ones) and has a TV show (his show is probably on summer break now) and I didn't see anything removed.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It isn't in english but basically a status was removed and journalist commended favorisation of Paris attacks and underrating attacks in Sirya, Palestine, Iraq and so on. He said that we should put flags of all those countries and don't consider anybody else less worthy. Wierd that this was removed, because he posts lots of conspiracy theories (mostly NWO ones) and has a TV show (his show is probably on summer break now) and I didn't see anything removed.

Not sure why that's a conspiracy. Was there a complaint about his language or the accompanying photos? Did he post in the name of Mladic or in the name of his employer? Is he the only person who uses that account for posting material or is it equally likely that his reference to "gangster" government led to a colleague/boss being instructed to remove the post?

 

[Neddo]

Not sure why that's a conspiracy. Was there a complaint about his language or the accompanying photos? Did he post in the name of Mladic or in the name of his employer? Is he the only person who uses that account for posting material or is it equally likely that his reference to "gangster" government led to a colleague/boss being instructed to remove the post?

That journalist, Mladen, posted that status I described. He used his account and probably posted it himself . It was removed without notice and I haven't found hate in his status. I don't deny last possibility that he removed it for publicity.

In another world, has anyone debunked nwo without using wikis?

 

[Scaff]

In another world, has anyone debunked nwo without using wikis?

Wrong way around.

The onus is on those claiming that the NWO exists to prove it exists.

You can't prove a negative (see Russell's Teapot), and as Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

 

[polysmut]

Did he post in the name of Mladic

As in Ratko? I haven't read neddo's links so I don't know exactly what you're replying to. I'll read the links if I've missed something there about the Balkans.

 

[Scaff]

As in Ratko? I haven't read neddo's links so I don't know exactly what you're replying to. I'll read the links if I've missed something there about the Balkans.

Nope, just someone who seems to think that Facebook is part of a global conspiracy because a post about using flags of Middle East and other non European as a sign of solidarity was removed.

Now his post may well have been, and I have no idea why, but the claim it was because of that suggestion is nonsense. No only have many many others voiced the exact same sentiment, but have also used such flags in that way without them being removed (myself included).