The infamous ultimate supercar thread.

[mPWRD]

it's just an employment question... to gauge the person's ingenuity and personality. nothing to do with cars.

 

[Leonidae]

well, I graduated as a mechanic about a year ago.. hence why I made questions that would concern a mechanic. and about moving Mt. Fuji? well, if I don't need to care about casualties and collapse of Japan as a nation, couple nuclear detonations within the tectonic tension areas should move it slightly. cold-blooded, I know, but you didn't set any requirements..

oh yeah, you'd better take a look at how Chrysler PT Cruiser or VW Polo is when it comes to replacing headlight bulbs or doing work on the engine.. and do the exact opposite. that way, you will have a car that I would love to do maintenance on.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I commend you for your thoughts and pro-active ideal, but there's one thing missing. Experience.

Horacio Pagani had plenty before the Zonda.
Enzo Ferrari had much as a racer.
Ferruccio Lamborghini had the wealth to pull quality designers together.
Lee Noble originally worked for Ascari.

But, Trevor Wilkinson did not.

 

[Leonidae]

that explains why TVR's are so common sight on wrecked exotics site..

 

[mPWRD]

All of what you say is true... which is why work on and modify cars right now. With cars, the only worthwile experience is practical experience - I have worked with everything from old mustangs to c6 corvettes.

 

[MinoltaMan89]

So, making a supercar, eh? A few questions here:
Will it be outrageous, as in a 250mph Veyron-level type of car or a more conventional sort, like an F430 or a Gallardo?

What sort of engine will it use? A V8 seems the best bet overall. Preferably a late model Chevy (LS1 or LS2, maybe LS6 or LS7). Reliable, fuel-efficient, and can make amazing power with little work.

Front or mid-engine?

Is it aimed at handling or raw power?

Are you really going to build it? People have built 9-second drag cars for 10K, but this takes more money, and we don't have a base car for this.

 

[mPWRD]

1. It has the performance potential of a Veyron with the usability and practicality of an F430.
2. A custom-built engine (i cannot release specs yet) with electric motor assist
3. mid
4. Both
5. Yes.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

that explains why TVR's are so common sight on wrecked exotics site..

Mainly down to poor tyre choice and/or messed up chassis geometry. A geometry check can be the difference between a write-off or a long-term hoon companion, especially with the Cerberas and Chimaeras.

 

[MinoltaMan89]

So it's a hybrid supercar? Electric motors are heavy, so the thing better be light.
Building the car: >$100K. Blowing past a guy in his Lambo or Ferrari at a track day and seeing the look on his face: priceless.

 

[mPWRD]

nice. and no, this won't be a superlight car. But trust me, it will be fast.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd have thought an engine and transmission choice would be simple: Everyone in the world knows that at first crack, you pick a Ford Modular or a Chevrolet Small Block. Strap it to a T56, hook that up for a Ford 9" out back... The only thing left to do is build the car around it.

 

[mPWRD]

people... i'm telling you... the powertrain will be completely new. no crate engines, nothing of the sort. you will even be able to customize your engine!

 

[YSSMAN]

...and thats where my point resurfaces...

You really think you're going to be able to design your own engine? Furthermore, you realize that most of the "popular" V8 engine designs floating around out there today are based on the Ford Modular, Chevy Small-Block, and Buick 215 (ie, Rover V8), right?

Its generally cheaper, more reliable, and overall more sensible to "borrow" parts from other cars. Don't worry, everyone does it.

 

[mPWRD]

*sigh*... i've already designed and planned out the engine. it will not be cheap, but i'm pretty sure it could go WAY faster than a small-block v8. and it is based on an existing engine.... i'm just not saying which one!

 

[Eric.]

1. It has the performance potential of a Veyron with the usability and practicality of an F430.
2. A custom-built engine (i cannot release specs yet) with electric motor assist
3. mid
4. Both
5. Yes.

So the design is done? You have all of the necessary renderings of the body, know the coefficient of drag, the gearing, how much downforce its making? The powerplant (designed by you, not sourced from something else) is finished and you know the numbers it will be making and what the dyno will look like in order to make the right gear ratios work?

And why the hell does your supercar have electric motors? You just turned it into a hybrid!

 

[mPWRD]

to answer your new questions, in order.
1, 2, 3, 4. No. I have not done any of this, as I do not know all that I need to. This is one reason i'm asking for serious help - obviously there are other people who know more about it than i do.

5. Yes, I did. Who said that a supercar had to guzzle gas? or even run on it, for that matter?

 

[Jay]

5. Yes, I did. Who said that a supercar had to guzzle gas? or even run on it, for that matter?

You're right, it could guzzle petroleum (petrol) instead!

 

[Azuremen]

I'm gonna watch this thread. Someone get me some popcorn.

Srsly though, you are mistaking starting somewhere with already being there it seems. You don't just wake up and build a super car.

 

[Leonidae]

already known engine design.. can be customized to your liking.. electric engine to accompany it. you know, wankel hybrid running on hydrogen sprang into my mind instantly.

 

[homeforsummer]

I've thought of a question that hasn't yet been asked:

Why not start with something smaller? Like say, a kit-car style sports car, along a new design (i.e, not another Lotus 7 replica, of which there are hundreds)? Even if it doesn't have quite the cachet of a supercar, it would be less intensive to design and develop, and things like an electrical system and any running gear could be picked from pretty much any car in the world (or indeed, any motorcycle).

The fact that you've asked a bunch of what are essentially video game enthusiasts suggests that even if you have the personal drive to design and build your own supercar, the only genuine help you're likely to get is from the users here in their early teens who fancy themselves as a designer. And let's face it, that isn't the best "team" of people to design something to compete with the fastest and most exciting cars on Earth.

However, building a kit car pretty much anybody can do. Whether you wanted to go all-out and design a carbon monocoque or just pop-rivet some steel panels to a tube chassis, there is so much variation and the cost can be surprisingly minimal. I remember reading about a community project for those with learning disabilities here in the UK once that managed to build a fully working 7-style sports car for £250 all-in. Now I'm not suggesting that we aim quite that low, but designing an original kit-car style car seems a much more sensible entry into the car market than a full-on supercar. For a start, with a kit car you wouldn't be competing with such established names.

 

[Famine]

I've shown this thread to a friend of mine who works for one of the more successful branches of one of the world's largest car manufacturers.

When he has stopped laughing - and I've removed the swearing and spellchecked it - I'll post his response. You may find it helpful, if not quite along the lines of help for which you were looking...

 

[Azuremen]

Famine, surely the spell check has come to a finish by now?

 

[Famine]

He's currently sitting at home hooked to tramadol for a significant injury, so his coherency is... limited. Nevertheless, here you go:

First of all I admire your enthusiasm, but you really have not thought this through with any amount of experienced input.

And rather than just laughing about it I'll try and explain to you the size of the task you are thinking of undertaking.

What you are proposing is equivalent to a civil engineering student in his final year trying to design from scratch, finance and build the worlds tallest building. It will only end up with failure and bankruptcy for you and anyone who backs you.

I’ll try and break it down in to chunks:

Engine
First of all you have completely underestimated the resources required to develop a new engine.

For example I will outline to you what is required by a motor manufacturer to complete an upgrade of an existing engine design. So assuming a small change to the head and block, new injection system, up rated air-charging system. A fairly simple upgrade that will give you a very reliable clean engine but not implementing any revolutionary technology such as hybrid systems. Your shopping list will be

- 4-5 years
- 300 full time engineers
- Access to a supercomputer and CAE experts
- 300 full prototype engines @ $150,000 - $200,000 per engine
~100k-150k hours of dyno testing
- And if you are making a completely new engine tens of millions in production tooling at the very least.

If you are not going to put in this level of investment you will be significantly behind everyone else building engines out there. That is why small manufacturers use other ready built engines. Not to mention you do not have the experience to design an engine. This is not the turn of the 1900s where you can engineer something in your shed. You are going head to head with companies who spend billions in engine development. As such if you do manage to get one made you will end up with a very expensive very poor engine.

Vehicle
Along a similar line as the engine, you have completely underestimated the resources and experience required to design, test, re-design, then build a vehicle. Rather than go through the details line by line (I am happy to if you want to ask any questions) I will just say that once you have completed the full CAD design of the vehicle you are about 1% (and to any level of accuracy 0% of the cost) in to the design process. At that point you have a concept and that is all. To get from concept to final design will take hundreds of million of $ and tens of thousands of experience engineer hours.

You say you are taking on the Ferrari and other main stream companies, they do spend the time developing and testing their cars, they have the experience to make the cars work, make the reliable and be able to manufacture them to a cost. Even if you did have the millions to invest you will end up with a car that is inferior in every respect to your competitors and also significantly more expensive.

Cost, Marketing and Competitors
What was your expected budget? Have you developed a business case? Who are your target customers? What volumes do you expect? Are you going to be able to offer a better product than your competitors? What is your unique selling point, handling, power luxury, top speed?

Have you answered any of these questions? I assume not as you still want to complete this project.

Remember there are only a limited amount of people who will be willing to pay $1m for something that is not as good as a $200k equivalent.

A very conservative budget for a supercar (with carryover engine) would be $300,000,000

My advice to you would be to rethink your plans, if you are such an amazing engineering talent get a job with a supercar company and put your ideas in to practice there. Or if you do want to make your own car, start off with a kit car or track car with as many carryover components as you can use.

When I completed my masters degree in Automotive engineering I also thought I knew it all and should be the chief engineer from day 1... that lasted about 10 mins after seeing the sheer scale of investment and skills used in developing new cars.

A good bet for you now is to assume you know nothing and still have everything to learn.

 

[Azuremen]

That was worth the wait. I can sleep easy now. And quite well put, I might add.

 

[Alex.]

. May I ask where your area of expertise is?

Performing Engineering operations on race vehicles.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Performing Engineering operations on race vehicles.

Ye Olde PEO. Call yourself a race engineer/technician, it sounds cooler

 

[YSSMAN]

However, building a kit car pretty much anybody can do. Whether you wanted to go all-out and design a carbon monocoque or just pop-rivet some steel panels to a tube chassis, there is so much variation and the cost can be surprisingly minimal. I remember reading about a community project for those with learning disabilities here in the UK once that managed to build a fully working 7-style sports car for £250 all-in. Now I'm not suggesting that we aim quite that low, but designing an original kit-car style car seems a much more sensible entry into the car market than a full-on supercar. For a start, with a kit car you wouldn't be competing with such established names.

Its the best place to start, honestly. And with some clever tinkering, you can build one helluva sports car for not much money at all. Keep in mind, just as a random representation of what a well-build 7 can do, we watched it destroy the Veyron (among others) on the TG track last year.

That, and it looks cooler. Plus you can say "I built it." Whats cooler than that?

 

[Alex.]

Ye Olde PEO. Call yourself a race engineer/technician, it sounds cooler

Technician it is

Currently though, despite working on FRenault, Ford, 3 and BMW I've only actually tested with a very strong Ford Team called JTR, The are running driver Josef Newgarden, who some american race fans may know.

 

[buickgnx88]

I have a degree in LEGO Engineering*!



*Not an actual degree. I just have a large tub of LEGO **bricks!

**

 

[Famine]

LEGOs!

No!

Dear parents and children,
The word LEGO(r) is a brand name and is very special to all of us in the LEGO group companies. We would sincerely like your help in keeping it special. Please always refer to our bricks as 'LEGO bricks or toys' and not 'LEGOs.' by doing so, you will be helping to protect and preserve a brand of which we are very proud and that stands for quality the world over. Thank you!