The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[Jawehawk]

Excellent GTE battle. Beautiful cars.

NOW GO TOYOTA! UNLEASH THE FURY! DRIVE LIKE YOU'VE NEVER DRIVEN BEFORE!

Sorry, I'm a bit excited

 

[Bo]

#1 car in. Toyota, push.

The #1 has found a good rhythm, whilst the other Audi's still can't get any pace.

 

[IforceV8]

Did the #2 slow the #7 car down for a lap to build the gap for #1? I missed the lap times watching the GTE battle.

 

[Bo]

Did the #2 slow the #7 car down for a lap to build the gap for #1? I missed the lap times watching the GTE battle.

It was a pit strategy thing, but the #2 didn't exactly help Toyota.

 

[Jawehawk]

Sarrazin is rather dissappointing. I think he might not be overly confident with the car. He did report over the radio that the car had oversteer back at the start of the race.

 

[Bo]

I think all the cars are running different setups. The #2 looks so much looser and twitchier than the #1.

 

[Jawehawk]

Great race. No accidents, lots of actual racing and extremely unpredictable.

Can't wait for Le Mans, and what will hopefully be yet another Toyota win, and more importantly, another amazing race.

 

[Bo]

Toyota looking amazing. Great job everyone, and they're carrying incredible form to Le Mans. This is their best shot yet.

 

[Jawehawk]

Wait. GTE entrants can participate with only 2 drivers? Since when?

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

#3 only 2mph off the toyota's and 4mph off the porsche

190mph on the audi, 192mph on the toyota and 194mph on the porsche

14 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Marc LIEB 311.2 26 Free Practice 2
20 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Timo BERNHARD 311.2 49 Race
7 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Kazuki NAKAJIMA 308.6 40 Free Practice 2
8 Toyota Racing Toyota TS 040 - Hybrid LMP1 - H Anthony DAVIDSON 308.6 44 Free Practice 2
3 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Filipe ALBUQUERQUE 304.2 45 Race
12 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Nicolas PROST 296.7 61 Race
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Loïc DUVAL 291.9 16 Race
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H André LOTTERER 291.9 9 Race
13 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Andrea BELICCHI 285.0 8 Race
37 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Viktor SHAITAR 276.2 70 Race
26 G-Drive Racing Morgan - Nissan LMP2 Olivier PLA 274.8 15 Race
27 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Nicolas MINASSIAN 272.7 5 Free Practice 2
47 KCMG Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Richard BRADLEY 272.0 35 Race
38 Jota Sport Zytek Z11SN - Nissan LMP2 Marc GENÉ 268.0 104 Race
51 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Toni VILANDER 266.0 44 Race
71 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Davide RIGON 266.0 4 Race
88 Proton Competition Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Am Klaus BACHLER 266.0 4 Race
60 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Raffaele GIAMMARIA 265.4 4 Race
81 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Michele RUGOLO 265.4 136 Race
92 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Frédéric MAKOWIECKI 265.4 46 Race
91 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Jörg BERGMEISTER 264.7 1 Race
97 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Bruno SENNA 264.7 70 Race
61 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Mirko VENTURI 264.1 98 Race
90 8 Star Motorsports Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Paolo RUBERTI 264.1 6 Race
98 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Pedro LAMY 264.1 3 Race
95 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Richie STANAWAY 263.4 6 Race
99 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Fernando REES 261.5 9 Free Practice 2
75 Prospeed Competition Porsche 911 GT3 RSR LMGTE Am Matthieu VAXIVIÈRE 260.9 44 Race

 

[Bo]

Why is that a jumble of practice and race? Not consistent or reliable data.

 

[DK]

What's with the low number of P2 entries?

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Why is that a jumble of practice and race? Not consistent or reliable data.

Yeah because the information DIRECTLY FROM THE ACO/FIA isn't reliable.

 

[LancerEvo7]

Why is that a jumble of practice and race? Not consistent or reliable data.

It's the highest speed reached by each car during the entire weekend.

 

[Bo]

Yeah because the information DIRECTLY FROM THE ACO/FIA isn't reliable.

Doesn't matter who you get it off, it's what the data is. Race and practice setups are very different, so it can't tell you anything apart from said car managed to top said speed at a random point in the weekend.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Doesn't matter who you get it off, it's what the data is. Race and practice setups are very different, so it can't tell you anything apart from said car managed to top said speed at a random point in the weekend.

Or it destroys your claim that the #3 car wasn't as slow as you claim.

 

[Bo]

Or it destroys your claim that the #3 car wasn't as slow as you claim.

It blatantly doesn't, because it's data that means nothing when put into context. You're getting some random data to try and prove me wrong, but the only remotely consistent data was the FP2 top speeds I got, because it came from exactly the same session. The only way you can prove its race pace, when at full speed and competing against others at the limit, is to get the top speeds from the race alone.

 

[LancerEvo7]

The only way you can prove its race pace, when at full speed and competing against others at the limit, is to get the top speeds from the race alone.

Or use the race results to discover the performance of the car, both speed and reliability, since both are important in endurance racing.

 

[SilverArrow]

It blatantly doesn't, because it's data that means nothing when put into context. You're getting some random data to try and prove me wrong, but the only remotely consistent data was the FP2 top speeds I got, because it came from exactly the same session. The only way you can prove its race pace, when at full speed and competing against others at the limit, is to get the top speeds from the race alone.

You can't prove that everyone was going as fast as they could in one practice session, if you combine the data you've got a pretty good idea where everyone's limit is unless certain cars weren't pushing at any point in the weekend.

 

[Bo]

Or use the race results to discover the performance of the car, both speed and reliability, since both are important in endurance racing.

Reliability isn't speed though. The results show who has the best overall package of pace and reliability, mixed in with a dab of luck. To show what car has the best top speed in a race situation, you can't go off and pick practice speeds to back up your argument.

You can't prove that everyone was going as fast as they could in one practice session, if you combine the data you've got a pretty good idea where everyone's limit is unless certain cars weren't pushing at any point in the weekend.

In the end, it's the race that matters. The limit in the race is all you can use to determine race pace, not a combined list.

 

[Bram Turismo]

The only way you can prove its race pace, when at full speed and competing against others at the limit, is to get the top speeds from the race alone.

In which case the #3 is barely reaching a less higher topspeed than the others.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

It blatantly doesn't, because it's data that means nothing when put into context. You're getting some random data to try and prove me wrong, but the only remotely consistent data was the FP2 top speeds I got, because it came from exactly the same session. The only way you can prove its race pace, when at full speed and competing against others at the limit, is to get the top speeds from the race alone.

So top speeds over a race weekend taking everything into account directly from the aco and the fia including from the race isn't reliable

You do know special stage x doesn't exist in real life

If you don't think that is reliable then god knows what is.

 

[Bo]

So top speeds over a race weekend taking everything into account directly from the aco and the fia including from the race isn't reliable

It isn't. Did you ever learn about data reliability in school? I don't care who you get the information off. It makes no difference to your argument. To show that x car is fast in the race, you can't have a mixed bag of time from race and practice. That's all there is to it, it's not reliable.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

2012

Red Bull Racing

Budget: £235.5m (estimated from overall RBR/RBT budget)

Income: £240m (of which £110m comes from Red Bull, £60m from other sponsors, and £70m from FOM earnings)

Profit: £4.5m net



Scuderia Ferrari

Budget: £250m (including engines)

Income: £260m (of which £160m comes from sponsors including FIAT, £20m from customers, and £80m from FOM earnings)

Profit: £10m net (group) 2012


also remember reading the 2013 budgets somewhere, ferrari spent £300 million, red bull £250 million

Keep in mind that Ferrari has to develop and manufacture engines too. Red Bull gets them from Renault for free.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

It isn't. Did you ever learn about data reliability in school? I don't care who you get the information off. It makes no difference to your argument. To show that x car is fast in the race, you can't have a mixed bag of time from race and practice. That's all there is to it, it's not reliable.

Nope but i learned it when i started working in a Motorsport team 8 years ago and have spent many days and evens looking at data logs and if this will make you happy ill delete the practice ones and leave the race ones as i guess you didn't read the end of each sentence.


20 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Timo BERNHARD 311.2 49 Race
3 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Filipe ALBUQUERQUE 304.2 45 Race
12 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Nicolas PROST 296.7 61 Race
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Loïc DUVAL 291.9 16 Race
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H André LOTTERER 291.9 9 Race
13 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Andrea BELICCHI 285.0 8 Race
37 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Viktor SHAITAR 276.2 70 Race
26 G-Drive Racing Morgan - Nissan LMP2 Olivier PLA 274.8 15 Race
47 KCMG Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Richard BRADLEY 272.0 35 Race
38 Jota Sport Zytek Z11SN - Nissan LMP2 Marc GENÉ 268.0 104 Race
51 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Toni VILANDER 266.0 44 Race
71 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Davide RIGON 266.0 4 Race
88 Proton Competition Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Am Klaus BACHLER 266.0 4 Race
60 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Raffaele GIAMMARIA 265.4 4 Race
81 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Michele RUGOLO 265.4 136 Race
92 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Frédéric MAKOWIECKI 265.4 46 Race
91 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Jörg BERGMEISTER 264.7 1 Race
97 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Bruno SENNA 264.7 70 Race
61 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Mirko VENTURI 264.1 98 Race
90 8 Star Motorsports Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Paolo RUBERTI 264.1 6 Race
98 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Pedro LAMY 264.1 3 Race
95 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Richie STANAWAY 263.4 6 Race
75 Prospeed Competition Porsche 911 GT3 RSR LMGTE Am Matthieu VAXIVIÈRE 260.9 44 Race

 

[Tired Tyres]

It isn't. Did you ever learn about data reliability in school? I don't care who you get the information off. It makes no difference to your argument. To show that x car is fast in the race, you can't have a mixed bag of time from race and practice. That's all there is to it, it's not reliable.

All the stats you need can be found here.

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/

 

[SilverArrow]

In the end, it's the race that matters. The limit in the race is all you can use to determine race pace, not a combined list.

This isn't about race pace it's about speed traps, it doesn't matter when it happened, as long as they prove a decent speed is possible with the car what's the problem?

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

All the stats you need can be found here.

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/

exactly what i posted but he does't think its reliable information.

 

[Bo]

Nope but i learned it when i started working in a Motorsport team 8 years ago and have spent many days and evens looking at data logs and if this will make you happy ill delete the practice ones and leave the race ones as i guess you didn't read the end of each sentence.


20 Porsche Team Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 - H Timo BERNHARD 311.2 49 Race
3 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Filipe ALBUQUERQUE 304.2 45 Race
12 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Nicolas PROST 296.7 61 Race
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H Loïc DUVAL 291.9 16 Race
2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 - H André LOTTERER 291.9 9 Race
13 Rebellion Racing Rebellion R-One - Toyota LMP1 - L Andrea BELICCHI 285.0 8 Race
37 SMP Racing Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Viktor SHAITAR 276.2 70 Race
26 G-Drive Racing Morgan - Nissan LMP2 Olivier PLA 274.8 15 Race
47 KCMG Oreca 03 - Nissan LMP2 Richard BRADLEY 272.0 35 Race
38 Jota Sport Zytek Z11SN - Nissan LMP2 Marc GENÉ 268.0 104 Race
51 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Toni VILANDER 266.0 44 Race
71 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Pro Davide RIGON 266.0 4 Race
88 Proton Competition Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Am Klaus BACHLER 266.0 4 Race
60 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Raffaele GIAMMARIA 265.4 4 Race
81 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Michele RUGOLO 265.4 136 Race
92 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Frédéric MAKOWIECKI 265.4 46 Race
91 Porsche Team Manthey Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro Jörg BERGMEISTER 264.7 1 Race
97 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Pro Bruno SENNA 264.7 70 Race
61 AF Corse Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Mirko VENTURI 264.1 98 Race
90 8 Star Motorsports Ferrari F458 Italia LMGTE Am Paolo RUBERTI 264.1 6 Race
98 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Pedro LAMY 264.1 3 Race
95 Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin Vantage V8 LMGTE Am Richie STANAWAY 263.4 6 Race
75 Prospeed Competition Porsche 911 GT3 RSR LMGTE Am Matthieu VAXIVIÈRE 260.9 44 Race

There! Now that is data that has controlled factors. These are the only things that can represent the race top speed of each car.

This isn't about race pace it's about speed traps, it doesn't matter when it happened, as long as they prove a decent speed is possible with the car what's the problem?

In order to show race top speeds, the only top speeds which end up meaning anything in terms of results, you can't show practice top speeds. It completely invalidates the data.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

There! Now that is data that has controlled factors. These are the only things that can represent the race top speed of each car.

Not really if you are stating it's not reliable then you have to take into account air temp, air density which will vary each time of the day, was the car in a draft or wasn't it, what fuel load it was carrying.......