The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

hawkeye122
So either the rule still exists and I'm right, or the ACO are selectively enforcing a rule against one of their oldest continuous entrants?
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How can you be right you haven't shown anything like I've asked that says it is a current rule, at least the opposing side has given info to back up their claim. I wouldn't be surprised if it has more to do with how @Furinkazen put it earlier.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Okay, so then the ACO/FIA decided that the the 2014 Porsche met the criteria and the C7.R didn't, who knows. However, this doesn't change the fact as shown that the 2014 cars from Porsche was allowed by AM teams that could afford it.
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That Porsche isn't from 2014.

It's the end-of 2013 spec, built in 2014
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Okay, so then the ACO/FIA decided that the the 2014 Porsche met the criteria and the C7.R didn't, who knows. However, this doesn't change the fact as shown that the 2014 cars from Porsche was allowed by AM teams that could afford it.
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http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/txt/5461/2/Porsche-911-RSR.html

Not official but it says what I'm saying.

Find me where Porsche announces a New-for-2014 car. There isn't one, just the Evo that ran at the end of 2013

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111700

Again, talking about how the Evo (aka 2014) spec bring made available to privateers.
How? They did the evolution in 2013.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/porsche-to-debut-2014-spec-911-rsr-in-bahrain/
 
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hawkeye122
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/txt/5461/2/Porsche-911-RSR.html

Not official but it says what I'm saying.

Find me where Porsche announces a New-for-2014 car. There isn't one, just the Evo that ran at the end of 2013

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111700

Again, talking about how the Evo (aka 2014) spec bring made available to privateers.
How? They did the evolution in 2013.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/porsche-to-debut-2014-spec-911-rsr-in-bahrain/
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That still doesn't change the fact that as reported the GTE-Am cars can run up to the most current of spec cars like the Pro. It seems what you're saying is that there was a single update at the end of 2013 for 2014 in mind to loop hole the rules, and give customers the closest to up to date as possible. However, this doesn't mesh with what RLM is saying.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
That still doesn't change the fact that as reported the GTE-Am cars can run up to the most current of spec cars like the Pro. It seems what you're saying is that there was a single update at the end of 2013 for 2014 in mind to loop hole the rules, and give customers the closest to up to date as possible. However, this doesn't mesh with what RLM is saying.
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RLM has said that such a loophole exists! I've listened to every single MWM in the past 3 years.

They didn't do it for the sake of the privateers, they did it because they wouldn't have needed to do a whole new homologation of the car, if you make your major update in the first season.

Last season Labre had the most current spec of Corvette, because Corvette hadn't made any changes or got a new car. This is no different, other than a more compressed time frame.
 
hawkeye122
RLM has said that such a loophole exists! I've listened to every single MWM in the past 3 years.

They didn't do it for the sake of the privateers, they did it because they wouldn't have needed to do a whole new homologation of the car, if you make your major update in the first season.

Last season Labre had the most current spec of Corvette, because Corvette hadn't made any changes or got a new car. This is no different, other than a more compressed time frame.
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Once again your issue was if the rules was taken out or not we said it was based on certain teams running and info by official sources like RLM. It's been proven to you that the GTE-AM one year rule doesn't exist as far as June goes to now. That is the point of the argument, not who circumvents what to make you feel you're right.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Once again your issue was if the rules was taken out or not we said it was based on certain teams running and info by official sources like RLM. It's been proven to you that the GTE-AM one year rule doesn't exist as far as June goes to now. That is the point of the argument, not who circumvents what to make you feel you're right.
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RLM is not an official source.

The most official source is the FIA website, and I have the MOST CURRENT rules attached to this thread(which I believe were revised after the Pre-season thing)
Where did you prove the rule doesn't exist?

It's not about trying to feel right- it's about why am I being persecuted when I have the correct information. Am I making this **** up? Did I hack the FIA and change the regs? Why are you treating me like **** for providing information?

How much more of an official source do you want other than the official rules, an example, and several articles which prove my example to be accurate?

Show me the FIA press release (or team) where anyone says anything about that rule being abolished for 2014

You didn't provide an official source, and I have explained and proved why your example of "Current teams running" is wrong. How about you find some sources now?
 
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hawkeye122
So if you can have a Pro spec car, why couldn't Labre have a Corvette then?

Also, Ram racing had been running a 2012-spec car even though it was built a year later (2013 ELMS and Le Mans)
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LMSCorvetteGT2
Ask the ACO/FIA
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The Porsche can run because you are allowed one update to your car for the following year. It must compete in the previous year to allow this. Corvette didn't do this so they can't run their latest car. Also, it doesn't matter when you older spec can was made. Three years ago or last week doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.


hawkeye122
RLM is not an official source.

The most official source is the FIA website, and I have the MOST CURRENT rules attached to this thread(which I believe were revised after the Pre-season thing)
Where did you prove the rule doesn't exist?

It's not about trying to feel right- it's about why am I being persecuted when I have the correct information. Am I making this **** up? Did I hack the FIA and change the regs? Why are you treating me like **** for providing information?

How much more of an official source do you want other than the official rules, an example, and several articles which prove my example to be accurate?

Show me the FIA press release (or team) where anyone says anything about that rule being abolished for 2014

You didn't provide an official source, and I have explained and proved why your example of "Current teams running" is wrong. How about you find some sources now?
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RLM are the official commentator team. Any statements they read out during a broadcast must be officially sanctioned....

It is not them at fault in this. It is the ACO/FIA not updating their websites to reflect the changes to rules.
 
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hawkeye122
RLM is not an official source.

The most official source is the FIA website, and I have the MOST CURRENT rules attached to this thread(which I believe were revised after the Pre-season thing)
Where did you prove the rule doesn't exist?

It's not about trying to feel right- it's about why am I being persecuted when I have the correct information. Am I making this **** up? Did I hack the FIA and change the regs? Why are you treating me like **** for providing information?

How much more of an official source do you want other than the official rules, an example, and several articles which prove my example to be accurate?

Show me the FIA press release (or team) where anyone says anything about that rule being abolished for 2014

You didn't provide an official source, and I have explained and proved why your example of "Current teams running" is wrong. How about you find some sources now?
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No you haven't @Tired Tyres just showed you what was wrong, I did understand where you were coming from and no one was persecuting you, I thought it was a friendly yet precise conversation. Until you seemed to be feeling slighted which you just confirmed you were.

You did provide info but each link was five or six months old from what I saw (I can look again since I'm going off memory), and the info given by Tired is newer than your source material.
 
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LMSCorvetteGT2
How can you be right you haven't shown anything like I've asked that says it is a current rule, at least the opposing side has given info to back up their claim. I wouldn't be surprised if it has more to do with how @Furinkazen put it earlier.
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hawkeye122
RLM has said that such a loophole exists! I've listened to every single MWM in the past 3 years.

They didn't do it for the sake of the privateers, they did it because they wouldn't have needed to do a whole new homologation of the car, if you make your major update in the first season.

Last season Labre had the most current spec of Corvette, because Corvette hadn't made any changes or got a new car. This is no different, other than a more compressed time frame.
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I've been looking in on a discussion on the Radio Le Mans facebook page, and they say the issue is that all the manufacturers homologated there cars for 2014 at the end of 2013. Corvette didn't anticipate needing homologation until shortly before Le Mans, and thus this was the barrier.
 
IforceV8
The ESM run at COTA is a 1st date,not a PR move. http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/brown-esm-were-definitely-going-to-le-mans/
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Who said it was?

IforceV8
Good for them,I would be shocked to see any full time P2 cars in TUSCC next year other than Mazda.
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If that's true, its funny the team that couldn't do squat against a LMP2 team running the same car the year before (without BOP mind you) decides it somehow will do better in the WEC.

Edit: Hold up, you for some reason left this part out:

Somebody asked me if we’re leaving the TUDOR Championship and I said, ‘I don’t know. But if I ever do leave, it’s not because of BoP.’ I’m not one of those type of guys that says, ‘Hey, we’re going to take our toys somewhere else because it hasn’t been a fair fight.’
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Looks like they definitely aren't pulling an Aston Martin.


Also, how many times does it have to be said that this is only the first year? I get that the BOP isn't perfect and I've already pretty much ruled this being a DP championship after Overbeck (the guy ironically competiting in that race) took out Pla for whatever reason, but its only the first season (Doesn't help that OAK Racing was the only competent P2 Team as the Mazdas are jokes and ESM is just the turtle of the P class no matter who they are competiting against even with the epic might of Ryan Daziel). Just the schedule for next season shows that IMSA is listening so I'm pretty sure next year (especially with those new Coupes from Ligier and HPD), the BOP will be much better.
 
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RACECAR
If that's true, its funny the team that couldn't do squat against a LMP2 team running the same car the year before (without BOP mind you) decides it somehow will do better in the WEC.


Also, how many times does it have to be said that this is only the first year? I get that the BOP isn't perfect and I've already pretty much ruled this being a DP championship after Overbeck (the guy ironically competiting in that race) took out Pla for whatever reason, but its only the first season (Doesn't help that OAK Racing was the only competent P2 Team as the Mazdas are jokes and ESM is just the turtle of the P class no matter who they are competiting against even with the epic might of Ryan Daziel). Just the schedule for next season shows that IMSA is listening so I'm pretty sure next year (especially with those new Coupes from Ligier and HPD), the BOP will be much better.
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You mean Tucker's team full of ringers he hired to boost his ego,yeah OK. IF they run the WEC is irrelevant,its the fact that DP/P2 battle is a stacked deck. At least running in a field of other P2 cars they wont have to bust ass to get pole only to watch the 3 DP's cars behind go streaking by when the green flag flies.Regardless he is paying for 4 TUSCC endurance rounds next year with sponsorship so it would look stupid if they didnt show up.

Unless the new HPD/Ligier cars show up with VTEC, DRS,KERS,and a NOS button they will still get beat on every green flag because they are down 125HP to a DP, and this is the wrong thread to argue about TUSCC...
 
As much as I despise that crook, his team ran those cars much better them ESM did.

Also, I'm not arguing. I'm saying the this is only the first year and its not going to be stuck unbalanced like this for good so I don't get how this is still not clicking in people's minds. And last I checked , Tuscc is still relevant since the series still has a connection to Le Mans so its not exactly off-topic.
 
I rather not see Scott Tucker in WEC, and I doubt trying to escape the dark cloud set over him by illegal activities is going to help him any.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I rather not see Scott Tucker in WEC, and I doubt trying to escape the dark cloud set over him by illegal activities is going to help him any.
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He'll be hanging with his buddies in the brig soon if I had to speculate not to mention his funding source has recently committed suicide
 
The owner of Ginetta was recently interviewed on RLM, he's very serious and plans to build 15 LMP3 cars to keep his cost down, and still provide a quality car. Marketing? Perhaps, but he seems convinced there won't be a shortage of interest
 
hawkeye122
The owner of Ginetta was recently interviewed on RLM, he's very serious and plans to build 15 LMP3 cars to keep his cost down, and still provide a quality car. Marketing? Perhaps, but he seems convinced there won't be a shortage of interest
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As cheap as they are for a season, 15 is a good estimate honestly. I'm confident there will be that many chassis sold unless IMSA drops the PC class. That's the bulk of the customer base
 
cnd01
As cheap as they are for a season, 15 is a good estimate honestly. I'm confident there will be that many chassis sold unless IMSA drops the PC class. That's the bulk of the customer base
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15, but this is just from a single manufacturer. He felt that the other companies probably wouldn't build as many as he is going to, but the ACO should have no worries about class size.
 
cnd01
As often as they crash, he may build 1500 :lol:
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They didn't crash this much last year, or the year before. I'd like to know why.

I believe the car is smaller, so the physics suggest they're that much less like to collide in the space given?

I'd also like to know how much profit Oreca has made in selling spares this year..
 

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