The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

R1600Turbo
And I stand by what I said.


No, I just pay attention more-so than some people around here who by chance call themselves fans yet don't know the whole story when it comes to this car and make wild accusations.

Don't bother replying to this post, because I'm finished.
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Wild accusations .......... ya know saying a car will change history and rewrite rules is a wild accusation right? And unfortunately you don't control what I will or will not do so ......... I replied. Sucks right?

The problem is either that you think you know more than those saying the Nissan is slow (which is arrogant, conceited, disrespectful, etc). You saying that you pay more attention than anyone else proves that.

Also Bowlby himself once said that a functioning 8 MJ hybrid is worth about 8 seconds a lap. If the AWD system ever becomes reality, it needs to be worth more than 12 seconds to make up the difference. Perhaps someone who pays more attention than everyone else can explain how the car will get faster. Hopes and dreams?

Hopes and dreams man. And you can't love a car into going faster.
 
redsoxboy80
The problem is either that you think you know more than those saying the Nissan is slow (which is arrogant, offensive, disrespectful, etc). You saying that you pay more attention than anyone else proves that.
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Well, from the face of it, he does know more about the car. He's seen it from early days. He understands it. He understands what he's talking about.
redsoxboy80
Also Bowlby himself once said that a functioning 8 MJ hybrid is worth about 8 seconds a lap. If the AWD system ever becomes reality, it needs to be worth more than 12 seconds to make up the difference. Perhaps someone who pays more attention than everyone else can explain how the car will get faster. Hopes and dreams?
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Have you ever heard of developing a setup? Developing a car? Learning more from data? Getting the engine working better? Drivers getting more comfortable with the car? Being highly selective about your information to try and prove yourself right can be seen through quite easily. You're picking random parts of various sources, mixing it up, adding your own words in there to try and make it prove what you want to say.
redsoxboy80
Hopes and dreams man.
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I like the fact you can say this with such unquestionable certainty when you can shoot others down instantly for "wild claims". But wait, you can clearly predict the future, you know exactly what Nissan are running now, will be running in the future! Damn, Nissan should really hire you so you can tell all their designers, engineers, strategists and personnel with almost limitless experience that the future will hold nothing for them.

If you would really like me to, I can put your concerns to Darren right now. I can't guarantee he'll reply anytime soon, since he's a bit busy with quali today, and he's been having to deal with a lot of these things from all kinds of forums and social media outlets, but if he does I'll post it right here.
 
I think Nissan have also stated that they're at Le Mans this year without any sort of qualifying tyres. Without them there's little point even trying for a quick time. They'll have been purely working on a race set-up. They've shown LMP1 speeds through the speed traps, haven't they? - so it at least has the straight line pace.
 
TheCracker
I think Nissan have also stated that they're at Le Mans this year without any sort of qualifying tyres. Without them there's little point even trying for a quick time. They'll have been purely working on a race set-up. They've shown LMP1 speeds through the speed traps, haven't they? - so it at least has the straight line pace.
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Another non fact.
Porsche Audi and Toyota were really mad about this statement (it was claryfied as false information by nissan afterwards). Qualifying tyres are not allowed at lemans since 2008 or so. Just a marketing lie. There are 16 tyres allowed 3 michelin compunds which are only for different temperatures and doing the same laptimes just in different temprature windows.
Also tyres are limited so yeah.
Please do your homework
 
Arveena
Another non fact.
Porsche Audi and Toyota were really mad about this statement (it was claryfied as false information by nissan afterwards). Qualifying tyres are not allowed at lemans since 2008 or so. Just a marketing lie. There are 16 tyres allowed 3 michelin compunds which are only for different temperatures and doing the same laptimes just in different temprature windows.
Also tyres are limited so yeah.
Please do your homework
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How rude.

I've not seen any retraction or denial on the Darren Cox interview, so as far as I'm concerned, they were never planning on pushing for a competitive qualifying time. Whether that's down to tyre issues or something else, who knows.

Autosport
"We will not be going out for a laptime in qualifying because we haven't got the tyres and we haven't got the time," he explained.

Cox revealed that Nissan had not developed a qualifying tyre together with supplier Michelin as a result of the delays in the GT-R LM programme.

"We think we have got a good first-year set of tyres that are matched to our car," he said.

"We don't have a set of tyres that will last two laps and are worth two seconds; we have a four-stint set."
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In German eurosport there was the Porsche chief and he was explaining it.
you are only allowed to use 16 Tyres on all trainingssessions. so no one has a tyre for less than 2h. He was complaining about this as false information and said that he also likes their marketing efforts but the need to stay with the truth as qualifying tyres are not allowed at all.
Again I dont hate Nissan I like their concept but dont get blinded by their marketing. I like all the people from nissan i met but this time they are overdoing it.
Also 8mj will be impossible with there current approach audi said it themself that 4MJ is the max for a flywheel.
 
hsv
Well, from the face of it, he does know more about the car. He's seen it from early days. He understands it. He understands what he's talking about.
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What evidence suggests he knows more about the car than anyone else? He said he doesn't care about this kind of racing and he works for Nissan. So would you agree that eliminates objectivity from his argument? Did he get a company memo with all the technical details of the car? He also has quite a few people on his ignore list, so evidently he gets into these disagreements often .......... Did you believe tobacco companies when they said smoking does not cause cancer?

hsv
I like the fact you can say this with such unquestionable certainty when you can shoot others down instantly for "wild claims". But wait, you can clearly predict the future, you know exactly what Nissan are running now, will be running in the future! Damn, Nissan should really hire you so you can tell all their designers, engineers, strategists and personnel with almost limitless experience that the future will hold nothing for them.
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Well we'll see who's right at some point won't we ;). 20 seconds ....... good luck with that. People lie, laptimes don't. Also as I said before, I applaud Nissan for taking the risk. The way their people have been handling legitimate criticism however, if I could change that I would happily accept the opportunity. But I'll stick with my original post saying that Nissan should get out of the program if the car doesn't have RWD capabilities next year.

hsv
If you would really like me to, I can put your concerns to Darren right now. I can't guarantee he'll reply anytime soon, since he's a bit busy with quali today, and he's been having to deal with a lot of these things from all kinds of forums and social media outlets, but if he does I'll post it right here.
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Please do! That might be entertaining! His reputation for bending the truth lends a lot of credibility to his words too! But ask him about the qualifying tire remark when you get a chance. Oh and one more thing, ask him why he's putting such an effort into responding to remarks made in social media. Of course he, as a representative of the company, wants to see positive remarks. But shouldn't we come to our own conclusions about the performance of the car? Or should we just inherit someone else's opinions about its capabilities? Get back to me on that one........
 
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redsoxboy80
What evidence suggests he knows more about the car than anyone else?
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Again, I've just been paying attention to what's been going on. Some people, *ahem*, haven't.

redsoxboy80
He said he doesn't care about this kind of racing and he works for Nissan. So would you agree that eliminates objectivity from his argument? Did he get a company memo with all the technical details of the car?
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I don't care about this type of racing, but this is the biggest race of the year, and as an automotive fanatic I do pay attention when this time of the year comes around. And no memo's, just paying attention, yet again, unlike some people.

redsoxboy80
He also has quite a few people on his ignore list, so evidently he gets into these disagreements often ..........
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Two. Two people are on my ignore list. You being one of them, but the sad part about GTP is that an ignore list doesn't really make you disappear, and I'm not about to let someone talk about me behind my back.

redsoxboy80
Well we'll see who's right at some point won't we ;). 20 seconds ....... good luck with that. People lie, laptimes don't. Also as I said before, I applaud Nissan for taking the risk. The way their people have been handling legitimate criticism however, if I could change that I would happily accept the opportunity. But I'll stick with my original post saying that Nissan should get out of the program if the car doesn't have RWD capabilities next year.

Please do! That might be entertaining! His reputation for bending the truth lends a lot of credibility to his words too! But ask him about the qualifying tire remark when you get a chance. Oh and one more thing, ask him why he's putting such an effort into responding to remarks made in social media. Of course he, as a representative of the company, wants to see positive remarks. But shouldn't we come to our own conclusions about the performance of the car? Or should we just inherit someone else's opinions about its capabilities? Get back to me on that one........
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Here's an idea, maybe you should submit your resume to Nissan and tell them that you know how to make their multi-million dollar racing program win races. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear your ideas.
 
Stop fighting thing has potential for sure but they are way behind scedule.
The only thing I want to see as a Physics freak is the 8mj flywheel. Dont think this will be ever possible without another hybrid system.
This year i just want to see if they can do longer stints than the other factorys. If that does not happen its going to be rough
 
Still behind scedule i have talked to a lot of their drivers last year and the GTA guys and it sounded very different.
But its okay it means they have more wokr for the next 12 months. If we see major imprvements throughout the wec season they could be a contender next year. Obviously not with speed but thats not the plan of the concept. 5 stints on one tyre and less fuel consumption through there aero advantage and 8mj
 
R1600Turbo
Again, I've just been paying attention to what's been going on. Some people, *ahem*, haven't.
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Nevermind. Evidently you're taking this way too personally because it seems like you are very attached to your employer, and this has gone on for long enough. I'll remind you about everything you've said later. Maybe Sunday. We'll see who's right, k?

Paying more attention ........... Really?
 
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redsoxboy80
What evidence suggests he knows more about the car than anyone else? He said he doesn't care about this kind of racing and he works for Nissan. So would you agree that eliminates objectivity from his argument? Did he get a company memo with all the technical details of the car?
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Seeing it test in the bare skin and being around the team when it made its first steps kind of satisfies that description, yes. Especially as he was able to give a pretty accurate description of it about 6 months before it was even a complete car.
redsoxboy80
20 seconds ....... good luck with that.
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*Jumps from 12 seconds in the original post to 20*
You see, if you'd been
redsoxboy80
paying more attention
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you would've known that LMP1 cars are getting capped considerably for 2016, so we will never see such low times again.
redsoxboy80
Did you believe tobacco companies when they said smoking does not cause cancer?
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Stop. Seriously. Your posts are getting more ludicrous by the minute.
redsoxboy80
But I'll stick with my original post saying that Nissan should get out of the program if the car doesn't have RWD capabilities next year.
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Your original posts laced with more blind guesses, twisted words and inconsistencies? Gotcha.
redsoxboy80
Please do! That might be entertaining!
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Entertaining for us, but for some reason I don't think you'll pay much attention to what he has to say...
redsoxboy80
His reputation for bending the truth
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This "reputation" needs shedding some light on then, because you clearly know something about his deceitful nature everyone else doesn't, a bit like how you know more than the engineers, designers and team personnel. It's pretty clear you're simply out to get the car, the team, the project no matter what, and you'll post whatever you can to try and satisfy that.
redsoxboy80
But shouldn't we come to our own conclusions about the performance of the car? Or should we just inherit someone else's opinions about its capabilities?
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This translates to "You can say whatever you like about the car, no matter how truthful it is, no matter who says it, but my opinion will always be the same and I have no intentions of changing it." It's quite clear now you aren't here to discuss or listen, just keep posting the same flawed theories.
redsoxboy80
Evidently you're taking this way too personally because it seems like you are very attached to your employer, and this has gone on for long enough.
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How dare he speak the truth! Posting reasoned, factually correct information is too much for you? If you didn't know his employment status, you wouldn't have 90% of the base your posts. Again, you aren't looking to reasonably discuss anything, just have a go at anything or anyone related to the programme.
redsoxboy80
I'll remind you about everything you've said later.
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That'll be next Le Mans right, when they said they'd be going for the win, and they'll actually have a hybrid LMP1 car, not essentially a handicapped P1-L car?
redsoxboy80
Maybe Sunday.
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...Of course not! What will Sunday prove? Nobody's ever said that their first Le Mans was anything other than a test session. I think you're fully aware by now that the Nissan is nothing like it will be next year, so all I can presume is you're trolling.

Lastly...
redsoxboy80
Oh and one more thing, ask him why he's putting such an effort into responding to remarks made in social media.
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Because it's hard to see people blindly hate on something of yours with no reasoning or basis, right? He understands there are skeptics, but at least listen to all the facts you're presented with, and don't be selective about the information you use. If you only see what you want to see, you may as well not be quoting anything at all.

Unless you actually acknowledge and address what has been said, and take it into account, then I'm done too. There's only so much that can be said before you've deliberately ignored everything - if you have no intention of changing your mind, it's a lot easier to just say it.
 
@redsoxboy80
Have you seen the car in the flesh? No.
Have you been with the team when they are working on it? No.

Also @daan isn't this thread a bit meaningless now when we have a WEC / ELMS / ALMS thread already?
 
hsv
Seeing it test in the bare skin and being around the team when it made its first steps kind of satisfies that description, yes. Especially as he was able to give a pretty accurate description of it about 6 months before it was even a complete car.

*Jumps from 12 seconds in the original post to 20*
You see, if you'd been

you would've known that LMP1 cars are getting capped considerably for 2016, so we will never see such low times again.

Stop. Seriously. Your posts are getting more ludicrous by the minute.

Your original posts laced with more blind guesses, twisted words and inconsistencies? Gotcha.

Entertaining for us, but for some reason I don't think you'll pay much attention to what he has to say...

This "reputation" needs shedding some light on then, because you clearly know something about his deceitful nature everyone else doesn't, a bit like how you know more than the engineers, designers and team personnel. It's pretty clear you're simply out to get the car, the team, the project no matter what, and you'll post whatever you can to try and satisfy that.

This translates to "You can say whatever you like about the car, no matter how truthful it is, no matter who says it, but my opinion will always be the same and I have no intentions of changing it." It's quite clear now you aren't here to discuss or listen, just keep posting the same flawed theories.

How dare he speak the truth! Posting reasoned, factually correct information is too much for you? If you didn't know his employment status, you wouldn't have 90% of the base your posts. Again, you aren't looking to reasonably discuss anything, just have a go at anything or anyone related to the programme.

That'll be next Le Mans right, when they said they'd be going for the win, and they'll actually have a hybrid LMP1 car, not essentially a handicapped P1-L car?

...Of course not! What will Sunday prove? Nobody's ever said that their first Le Mans was anything other than a test session. I think you're fully aware by now that the Nissan is nothing like it will be next year, so all I can presume is you're trolling.

Lastly...


Because it's hard to see people blindly hate on something of yours with no reasoning or basis, right? He understands there are skeptics, but at least listen to all the facts you're presented with, and don't be selective about the information you use. If you only see what you want to see, you may as well not be quoting anything at all.

Unless you actually acknowledge and address what has been said, and take it into account, then I'm done too. There's only so much that can be said before you've deliberately ignored everything - if you have no intention of changing your mind, it's a lot easier to just say it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cox said we should judge them after their first stint in the race right? Pay attention to whatever you want. But let's be more considerate of the people who pay more attention to what the car actually does on the track, not the hype. And 12 seconds? Can you quote that post please?

So let's agree to disagree until Sunday. The car's performance will be the ultimate indicator of who's paying attention to the right aspects of its potential. We can disregard the fuel mileage the car achieves because it has no hybrid power though. Can we agree on that?
 
redsoxboy80
So let's agree to disagree until Sunday. The car's performance will be the ultimate indicator of who's paying attention to the right aspects of its potential. Can we agree on that?
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The car's performance next year will be the only final indication of the truth of your claims. They certainly aren't going to mount something physically impossible this weekend, getting around the Colin's Laundered Money is literally what it's physically capable of now. Yep, when it had the hybrid running through the fronts last week, Nissan may have got some hope about the car that can't be realised because of its current state - but what they do this year really cannot indicate next year, end of. It is essentially a completely different car.
 
hsv
The car's performance next year will be the only final indication of the truth of your claims. They certainly aren't going to mount something physically impossible this weekend, getting around the Colin's Laundered Money is literally what it's physically capable of now. Yep, when it had the hybrid running through the fronts last week, Nissan may have got some hope about the car that can't be realised because of its current state - but what they do this year really cannot indicate next year, end of. It is essentially a completely different car.
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Does anyone know what the performance cap regs will be next year? You suggested Nissan won't be affected by this yet the other manufacturers will, at least that's how I interpreted it. I know the ACO is planning on reducing LMP1 performance, but does anyone know the specifics at this point?
 

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