The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

Roger the Horse
All time record is a 3:13.9 in 1971.
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Are you also comparing laptimes from Spa's 71 to today's version?
The track was completely different back then, not only regarding the chicanes, the whole Dunlop S didn't exist for example.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw the post on the other page. Still, it's nonesense to compare the times.
 
so nissan ,is not using their hybrid systemat all BUT they must carry it due to homologation rules.so out of the game of podium.also its a pity that toyotas are way behing the others
 
Tired Tyres
Mate. 2012. Toyota did Le Mans as their first race. They treated it as race test and after the 6 hours of a normal WEC race were up they were fighting Audi for the lead.
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Yes and what six hours have Nissan had?

Last year this was Porsche's third race. They came within 20 minutes or so of winning it.

This year, unless Nissan finds rather a lot of pace, they will be lapped by the LMP1 field every single stint. They won't find much. Why? Because of my next point to you know who.
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Read question one again, and also I don't recall Porsche having plans to join but win the next year and Toyota is a more special case, they were sped up and did a great job but the ease came from a more conventional system to follow. Still in the case of Toyota you can't deny they did a wonderful job for a team rushed into their program, I think the F1 experience helped them though

They are fighting with a 475 BHP engine (according to Radio Le Mans) with no hybrid, against cars that have 580 or so BHP plus between 4 and 8 MJ of Hybrid so they are fighting with more than one arm behind their back.
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Perhaps the goal is to make sure such a system set up is viable, a front wheel, front engine race cars using purely internal aero tricks/ducting to obtain aero grip.
 
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Earth
I have a feeling Porsche is going to destroy everyone next year.

This year they reminded me of Peugeot 2007. Super fast in a straightline, great qualifying pace, but slower in the race. Then in 2008 Peugeot was 5 seconds faster than the Audis. I have a feeling Porsche will be 3 seconds faster then everyone next year once they compliment their straightline advantage by turning it into cornering speed. If your so much faster on the straights you can afford to run more downforce
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All things considered, Porsche is in better shape then Peugeot was in 2008. They have a better combination of reliability and speed.
 
Earth
All things considered, Porsche is in better shape then Peugeot was in 2008. They have a better combination of reliability and speed.
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You're neglecting what has been seen all season in the WEC though, the Audi has the race pace every time even if the Porsche has speed over a lap.
 
How's the GTR's pace compared to the other LMP1s? I know there's no way they'll be able to win by speed, but they might have a chance if they have good reliability.
 
mikeerfol
Do we think the rain that may hit the track for Sunday will make things better or worse for Nissan?
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Honestly I'd be surprised if more than one of them are running by then. Might help them a bit relative to the other cars since the FF means a little more stability.
 
And I quote:

R1600Turbo
Obviously they are not running at full power (pretty much half) or with all four wheels powered under acceleration like they had planned. That could be 20 seconds right there. They have the speed down the straights.

I personally see this program as one of those that changes history and re-writes rules. They're not to that point yet, but when they get this thing running the way it's supposed to...........look out.
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danardif1
It was testing, not all teams run the same programs, especially when they are at wildly different stages of development. We will see what the Nissan achieves in qualifying in little over a week's time. All things going to plan, I reckon we'll see them well under 3.25.000... that's a conservative estimate as well as that's about 9-10 seconds slower than the expected fastest time for the other P1 cars.
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And an excerpt from an article I previously linked. And I quote:

Darren Cox has predicted that the Nissan GT-R LM NISMOs will be "significantly faster" than the LMP2s despite the delays in the project and a downgrading of the car's hybrid system into the two megajoule class.

"What did they qualify at last year, a 3m37s? We will be way ahead of that," he told AUTOSPORT.

"There have been a lot of predictions on social media that are completely wrong.

"We have a time that our simulations tell us we can do, but it is not a target and we are not going to say what it is."

The gap to the fastest P1s is still more than 20 seconds and it will likely be the same in race trim too. Credibility is earned on promises and predictions being delivered on. If a few of the Nissan supporters could just say something to the effect of "Yeah the LM-GTR doesn't seem like it will ever be competitive with the other LMP1s, but let's wait for the program to see its course just to see how fast this concept can eventually become. It's cool to see a new approach anyway." That would be a massive breath of fresh air. The defiant arguing with every post about the Nissan on the other hand.........

Just let it be criticized for now. Eventually nobody will care about it and we'll move on to the next thing. Nissan will be back next year anyway. And it shouldn't be any surprise the car is slow. I'd like to see it do well too, but there's a reason most top-flight racing cars have their engines behind the driver and primarily driving the rear wheels. Engineers have known this for decades and I'm pretty sure the laws of physics have not changed since then.

I applaud Nissan and the people there for taking a risk on an unproven concept, but at some point you have to accept the reality for what it is. It's not entirely unreasonable to classify the car as an LMP2 right now since it's running without the hybrid system, so I guess it could be seen as a small victory that one car is competitive with the LMP2 class. But supposing the car reaches its most evolved state at some point in the future, how is it supposed to reach a laptime that is competitive with the other P1 cars?

Let's assume the car attains an 8 MJ hybrid system next year and a rear-wheel drive system. The hardware for both of these systems will need to be integrated into the chassis and that will inevitably take up space that air is flowing freely through right now. The hybrid system will also have a reasonable cooling requirement. All of these things add up to more total drag, and the whole car was created around a low-drag concept so this is effectively reducing the car's biggest competitive advantage. With all of these factors adding up, the Nissan MIGHT break a 3:25 in its most evolved form in qualifying trim. Whether it can do that and reliably run for 24 hours too ............ it does not seem likely.

Basically the only way I see this car ever being competitive for a win is if it can quadruple stint its tires AND go an 2 laps longer than the other LMP1s before needing gas.
 
redsoxboy80
Let's assume the car attains an 8 MJ hybrid system next year and a rear-wheel drive system. The hardware for both of these systems will need to be integrated into the chassis and that will inevitably take up space that air is flowing freely through right now. The hybrid system will also have a reasonable cooling requirement. All of these things add up to more total drag, and the whole car was created around a low-drag concept so this is effectively reducing the car's biggest competitive advantage.
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The car was designed with all that in mind in the first place. It's not like it was an after thought and they have to figure out where to put everything. What a great observation. :rolleyes:

redsoxboy80
With all of these factors adding up, the Nissan MIGHT break a 3:25 in its most evolved form in qualifying trim. Whether it can do that and reliably run for 24 hours too ............ it does not seem likely.

Basically the only way I see this car ever being competitive for a win is if it can quadruple stint its tires AND go an 2 laps longer than the other LMP1s before needing gas.
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Oh hey, look guys, another armchair engineer.
 
I think the Nissan's shown it's a good concept, but for this weekend I see one of them finishing an absolute best case scenario. If they get everything working, watch out.
 
R1600Turbo
Never said I was an engineer.
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No. But you did say you see this car changing history and rewriting rules :lol:

R1600Turbo
The car was designed with all that in mind in the first place. It's not like it was an after thought and they have to figure out where to put everything. What a great observation. :rolleyes:
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Oh look, someone who knows details about the design of the car but isn't an engineer. Must be an armchair engineer ......... who doesn't care about the type of racing we are talking about ....... or baseless garbage from a Nissan employee.
 
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Ok so things haven't gone to plan. The Landy has decided it doesn't want to work properly so we're now in a brand new Nissan. Looks like I'm supporting the underdog now haha!

Currently waiting for the car to be picked up then we can finally head off. Nightmare.

Hopefully our Nissan will before reliable than the Protoytpe D:
image.jpg
 
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As soon as nissan announced no hybrid power beating a LMP2 would be a very hard task, as essentially its a FWD LMP2 at this point and loses all AWD Ability.

I have no doubt with a properly functioning hybrid system it would be atleast 10 seconds faster off the bat, and probably another 6 or so once they get the AWD situation nailed.

In reality they have came to LeMans a year early, probably should of started in 2016 and start with some credability.
 
mustafur
As soon as Nissan announced no hybrid power beating a LMP2 would be a very hard task, as essentially it's a FWD LMP2 at this point and loses all AWD Ability.

I have no doubt with a properly functioning hybrid system it would be at least 10 seconds faster off the bat, and probably another 6 or so once they get the AWD situation nailed.

In reality they have came to LeMans a year early, probably should off started in 2016 and start with some credibility.
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It is hard to argue with your saying that Nissan should have waited until WEC 2016. It has become a baptism of fire because of all the issues they have had. A racing environment is arguably the best place to learn but Nissan run the risk of Le Mans this year becoming a PR farce. I for one hope they at least make the end of the race.

The GT-R LM Nismo will be a monster when Nissan get it up to 8MJ AWD full spec. That will be a true sight to behold and a scary vision for it's competitors.

There is talk of Toyota going to 8MJ, as was the plan for 2015 before reliability concerns, but with a 2.0T engine from it's SuperGT programme.
 
mustafur
In reality they have came to LeMans a year early, probably should of started in 2016 and start with some credability.
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They do get to test the car and test themselves as a team in the ideal environment. Yes you're doing this very publicly, but you are also getting invaluable test data that you just wouldn't get from testing anywhere else - whether that's behind closed doors at Paul Ricard, or one of the other 24 or 12 hour races.
 
redsoxboy80
No. But you did say you see this car changing history and rewriting rules :lol:
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And I stand by what I said.

redsoxboy80
Oh look, someone who knows details about the design of the car but isn't an engineer. Must be an armchair engineer ......... who doesn't care about the type of racing we are talking about ....... or baseless garbage from a Nissan employee.
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No, I just pay attention more-so than some people around here who by chance call themselves fans yet don't know the whole story when it comes to this car and make wild accusations.

Don't bother replying to this post, because I'm finished.
 
Sorry Guys but the superficial knowledge in this thread is disgusting.

First of all I like Nissan I did like them before the GTA and still like them now. Theý are way behind their scedule thats a fact and I like your passion for their concept.
I also find it really interesting and it will have potential. But please stop saying they are doing somethin new and the other were just doing the same as the other in their first year.

Did you ever even bothered looking at the specs and compund of the Porsche. They had last year in the first year an 2.0 V4 with 480hp that alone is innovation at its finest. Do you know how small that is. That is a superb achievement and combined with their turbocharger hybrid system which was completly new to the whole world of motorsport and not even tested in a roadcar it was such an innovative car. It is atleast compareable to the Nissan on an innovation level dont get blinded by the marketing. They are just now running a frontengine race car with FWD so only the FWD is new Panoz did frontengine years ago. Also i have no idea how they wann get 8MJ out of a flywheel.
Also Audis Diesels did also win on their first year. No one even thought it would be possible to build a gearbox for the Diesel it was a completly new development never been tested anywhere not in motorsport not in a Roadcar.
Toyota was the only one who did a conservative way in their first year apperance and you see how this ends. In a slower development as you cans see today

I like Nissan and whish them the best of luck but please stop disrespecting the other manufactors in the prosses of your nissan cheering.
 
I am quickly being reminded of why there is a niche group in the automotive club and sports car racing world that I regularly avoid.

I use this thread to keep up with news on a race series that I rarely get to watch and instead it has become 90% about one car.
 

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