The Mazda Miata: Legendary or not?

[fitftw]

racecars have stickers. How many track cars do you see without stickers?

I agree though, mine will never have stickers on it. But those bodykits and aero parts are completely functional and very expensive.

 

[Sonic ZR1]

@fitftw:

But I don't sure if it's racecar.

 

[zr1chris]

Taking the history of "the car" to be 1886 to the present day, the MX-5 has been in continuous production for 17.6% of the entire history of the car. The Model T managed 15.2%.

I just don't think 22 years old classifies as historic. Although it could just be the fact that it would kind of make me feel a bit old.

It's even more impressive (as is the T, as it happens, for similar reasons) when you consider that it first appeared at the end of an era of automotive technological stagnation - not a lot had really changed in mass-production cars since the 60s - and all it had was an engine, a manual gearbox, four wheels, a radio and quite a good heater, like pretty much everything else on the market. The car remained almost physically unchanged for 16 years, during which other cars became power-restricted, speed-limited, bloated, climate-controlled bundles of electronics wrapped in steel (or aluminium). 400hp and 200mph were insanity when the MX-5 came out - 1000hp and 250mph were daily-driveable at the end of the Mk2's cycle. And aside from a slightly better radio and a foldy-uppy-tin-top if you were so inclined, the MX-5 is little different today - after an eighth of the entire history of motorised personal transport has passed...

All true but just not sure how this pleads the Miatas case for being any more legendary. The model T is not only historic, its ancient.

The story of its origins is quite interesting - it's quite a great deal more American (conceived by an American journalist, designed in California, unveiled in Chicago) and British (first rolling prototype built in the UK) than it is Japanese - and there's always the philosophy of Jinba ittai that underpins the car...

Good story just not sure if its far enough in the past. I will admit the case you all have made for the Miata has gotten better the last couple pages of this thread. I just think the car needs a few more years to be historic enough

But... That would mean that the F1 isn't legendary. The F40 neither.

According to the definition you are correct and I was wrong but I think the only thing left for those cars is to just become a bit more historic. They definitely tell a story and in my opinion its a far better one than the Miata tells. (Im not saying that the story that the Miata tells which is quoted above is not a good one because it is interesting.)

 

[12thgear]

The Miata development story is pretty interesting and worth reading. I think my favorite detail is when the team were benchmarking other roadsters for inspiration. One of the cars they got their hands on was a beater Lotus Elan with blown shocks. It ended up being their favorite because the suspension geometry was just about perfect. Even with blown shocks they loved the way it handled, and that informed how they designed the Miata's suspension. That and low weight are probably why the Miata's suspension is so soft in stock form.

 

[fitftw]

Isn't 20 years when a car gets "classic" insurance? That would mean the 1989-1991 Miatas are qualified Classic.

 

[zr1chris]

The Miata development story is pretty interesting and worth reading. I think my favorite detail is when the team were benchmarking other roadsters for inspiration. One of the cars they got their hands on was a beater Lotus Elan with blown shocks. It ended up being their favorite because the suspension geometry was just about perfect. Even with blown shocks they loved the way it handled, and that informed how they designed the Miata's suspension. That and low weight are probably why the Miata's suspension is so soft in stock form.

I must admit that does sound interesting.

Edit: Now after I post this I see fitftw has left a post that I wanted to quote but I guess I cant since that would be considered double posting. Idk just seems like a silly rule. Anyways I think its 25 years so its getting close as far as classic car insurance goes here in the states. In other countries it may be more or less. BTW I like how they just sit a huge turbo in an engine bay that's almost the same size as the motor its next to. Got to admit it tricked me at first. I thought it was really hooked up for a second there, then I noticed the towel it was sitting on. The only Miata I like out of those pics is the black one drifting in the last pic.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Nice discussion going on here.

I voted 'no' BTW. No doubt, the MX-5/Miata is an awesome car, but IMO, to qualify as an automotive legend/icon, it must be recognised as such both inside and outside of the automotive industry/enthusiast community. A true legend/icon is immediately recognized as such by virtually anyone on the planet, unless they've been living as a hermit.

As fitftw already pointed out: that last bit leaves a bit to be desired.

So IMO: awesome car: yes. Legend: no.

 

[Crispy]

Here, how about we check out some rice-burner shall we?



In truth, that car is fast, seen it on a track and it has something around 300hp.

Now time for mine. (Top Down)



That was parked next to someone's, never seen that car again but was a nifty little photo. Somewhere I need to find one of our little red second generation with a Jackson Racing Supercharger. My parents ended up selling it because nobody in 100mi. new how to fix the Supercharger after it blew.

 

[McLaren]

Nice discussion going on here.

I voted 'no' BTW. No doubt, the MX-5/Miata is an awesome car, but IMO, to qualify as an automotive legend/icon, it must be recognised as such both inside and outside of the automotive industry/enthusiast community. A true legend/icon is immediately recognized as such by virtually anyone on the planet, unless they've been living as a hermit.

As fitftw already pointed out: that last bit leaves a bit to be desired.

So IMO: awesome car: yes. Legend: no.

Last I checked, that's exactly what near most auto enthusiasts thought. It's certainly an agreed upon statement by the industry.

I just don't think 22 years old classifies as historic. Although it could just be the fact that it would kind of make me feel a bit old.

In case you didn't notice, 22 years is a milestone for a car to still be in production. Not many cars still around that are of equal/greater age, esp. ones that have kept to their original design.

 

[zr1chris]

In case you didn't notice, 22 years is a milestone for a car to still be in production. Not many cars still around that are of equal/greater age, esp. ones that have kept to their original design.

And you talk to me about changing what i say. No one ever said it wasn't a milestone. Reaching a milestone and being historic are not the same. Talk about trying to nit pick everything I say.

 

[eSZee]

Nice discussion going on here.

I voted 'no' BTW. No doubt, the MX-5/Miata is an awesome car, but IMO, to qualify as an automotive legend/icon, it must be recognised as such both inside and outside of the automotive industry/enthusiast community.

In that case, there are maybe 5 legendary cars and are either Ferraris or Lambos or Fords. Better yet, every country probably has their own cars they consider legendary.

 

[McLaren]

And you talk to me about changing what i say. No one ever said it wasn't a milestone. Reaching a milestone and being historic are not the same. Talk about trying to nit pick everything I say.

As previous, not grasping the point.

For the Miata to reach such a milestone is pretty historic, regarding the automotive world. The NSX, Corvette, 911, etc. were/are all historic with their long production runs as reasons (esp. the NSX given its cost).

 

[zr1chris]

every country probably has their own cars they consider legendary.

This is true.

 

[12thgear]

Nice discussion going on here.

I voted 'no' BTW. No doubt, the MX-5/Miata is an awesome car, but IMO, to qualify as an automotive legend/icon, it must be recognised as such both inside and outside of the automotive industry/enthusiast community. A true legend/icon is immediately recognized as such by virtually anyone on the planet, unless they've been living as a hermit.

As fitftw already pointed out: that last bit leaves a bit to be desired.

So IMO: awesome car: yes. Legend: no.

The one thing I agree with ZR1Chris on is that this isn't an exact science. I'm not sure the McLaren F1 would pass the general populous recognition test. The Chevrolet Corvette would. I think they're both legendary cars.

This is a lot of fun, but it's a lot like the late, great George Carlin's definition of what constitutes a real sport. To quote the man: "These are my rules, I make 'em up."

 

[zr1chris]

As previous, not grasping the point.

For the Miata to reach such a milestone is pretty historic, regarding the automotive world. The NSX, Corvette, 911, etc. were/are all historic with their long production runs as reasons (esp. the NSX given its cost).

And my point was that we were discussing what it meant in terms to the definition not in terms of milestones. No where in the definition does it say anything about a something having to achieve a certain milestone to be legendary.

 

[McLaren]

And my point was that we were discussing what it meant in terms to the definition not in terms of milestones. No where in the definition does it say anything about a car having to achieve a certain milestone to be legendary.

You weren't really discussing that at all. Instead, you simply replied 22 years isn't historic. In the automotive world, it really is when the vehicle is still in production.

I never once mentioned the word legendary. Practice what you preach.

And you talk to me about changing what i say.

 

[zr1chris]

You weren't really discussing that at all. Instead, you simply replied 22 years isn't historic. In the automotive world, it really is when the vehicle is still in production.

I never once mentioned the word legendary. Practice what you preach.

Legendary is the topic that is being discussed here. Read the title to the thread. All words in this thread may come and go but legendary is what this topic is all about. And yes that was what we were discussing. There was a definition of the words legend and legendary posted here and that comment was stemmed from that. We were discussing what was historic because of its context in the definition of legend or legendary.

 

[McLaren]

Legendary is the topic that is being discussed here. Read the title to the thread.

Except not all posts have actually pertained the to thread. A lot have been more about you than the car, tbh.

All words in this thread may come and go but legendary is what this topic is all about. And yes that was what we were discussing. There was a definition of the words legend and legendary posted here and that comment was stemmed from that. We were discussing what was historic because of its context in the definition of legend or legendary.

You can spin it whatever way you wish. The fact is, you made the claim to Famine that 22 years isn't really historic, when again, it actually is for an automobile.

If you were talking in the context of being legendary, I highly doubt you would have added in that tidbit about yourself & how it supports your thought of why you don't think it's historic.

 

[zr1chris]

Except not all posts have actually pertained the to thread. A lot have been more about you than the car, tbh.

I guess I must be the most interesting man in the world. Someone pass a DosEquis

 

[Famine]

I just don't think 22 years old classifies as historic. Although it could just be the fact that it would kind of make me feel a bit old.

Don't worry, the MX-5 might be 17.6% of the entire history of the car, but you're only 0.00025% of the entire history of humanity.

All true but just not sure how this pleads the Miatas case for being any more legendary.

While the motoring world moves on at almost an unmatched pace even considering the entire history of the car, the MX-5 remains the same and over quite a prolonged period of time compared to the entire history of the car - a simple, lightweight, four-pot, front-engined, rear-wheel drive convertible. The NC/NC.5 might not be quite the carbon copy of the NA (though the NB/NB.5 were, and they lasted combined for 16 years) but it's underpinned by the same ethos of Jinba ittai.

And, more importantly, while the tastes of the motoring public moves on, the MX-5 remains popular - it keeps its appeal despite being conceived in almost a completely different era. My first car was new in 1989 - the same year the MX-5 debuted - and it had a 4-speed gearbox, a manual choke, a pushrod 45hp/litre 1.0 engine (you cannot buy a pushrod new in Europe any more) which pushed it to 0-60mph in 18s and 98mph and it had a six channel AM radio-cassette. I briefly had an everyman 2006 car - the same year the NC MX-5 debuted - and it had a 6-speed gearbox, a 3.0 V6 DOHC 75hp/litre engine capable of 6s 0-60mph and 150mph, full leather and Alcantara Recaro sports seats, a Blaupunkt CD/AM/FM radio with six CD changer and GPS satellite navigation system. If you teleported the 2006 car back to 1989 it'd have eclipsed even the most luxurious and advanced cars of the time and you'd be mistaken for an alien - and yet the NC MX-5 would fit in and be recognisable (though it's a bit more complex than the NA was).

That's one of the reasons the MX-5 is legendary. It's timeless - the world moves on and it stays the same. Its appeal is timeless too - the world still buys it.

 

[zr1chris]

Don't worry, the MX-5 might be 17.6% of the entire history of the car, but you're only 0.00025% of the entire history of humanity.

While the motoring world moves on at almost an unmatched pace even considering the entire history of the car, the MX-5 remains the same and over quite a prolonged period of time compared to the entire history of the car - a simple, lightweight, four-pot, front-engined, rear-wheel drive convertible. The NC/NC.5 might not be quite the carbon copy of the NA (though the NB/NB.5 were, and they lasted combined for 16 years) but it's underpinned by the same ethos of Jinba ittai.

And, more importantly, while the tastes of the motoring public moves on, the MX-5 remains popular - it keeps its appeal despite being conceived in almost a completely different era. My first car was new in 1989 - the same year the MX-5 debuted - and it had a 4-speed gearbox, a manual choke, a pushrod 45hp/litre 1.0 engine (you cannot buy a pushrod new in Europe any more) which pushed it to 0-60mph in 18s and 98mph and it had a six channel AM radio-cassette. I briefly had an everyman 2006 car - the same year the NC MX-5 debuted - and it had a 6-speed gearbox, a 3.0 V6 DOHC 75hp/litre engine capable of 6s 0-60mph and 150mph, full leather and Alcantara Recaro sports seats, a Blaupunkt CD/AM/FM radio with six CD changer and GPS satellite navigation system. If you teleported the 2006 car back to 1989 it'd have eclipsed even the most luxurious and advanced cars of the time and you'd be mistaken for an alien - and yet the NC MX-5 would fit in and be recognisable (though it's a bit more complex than the NA was).

That's one of the reasons the MX-5 is legendary. It's timeless - the world moves on and it stays the same. Its appeal is timeless too - the world still buys it.

Very good reading here. The 2006 you had sounds like it was a nice car. Why did you only have it briefly and what did you trade it for?

 

[NLxAROSA]

In that case, there are maybe 5 legendary cars and are either Ferraris or Lambos or Fords.

The brands/cars you mention are not exactly what I had in mind, but yeah, I consider very few cars to be true legends on a global scale.

Better yet, every country probably has their own cars they consider legendary.

I think this is also true. I can certainly think of cars that are considered legendary in one region and are considered rubbish in another. I think what is legendary or not depends on the context (whether that is a region, a segment or something else).

 

[fitftw]

The Miata is one of those cars that will always be around. They will keep making them forever until cars are played out.

 

[niky]

In that case, there are maybe 5 legendary cars and are either Ferraris or Lambos or Fords. Better yet, every country probably has their own cars they consider legendary.

And even then... not all of them... probably the Ferrari 250 and the F40... and for Lamborghini... only the Miura and the Countach count.

Of course... everybody knows what a Miata is... they just can't decide whether they like it or not. (not everybody likes the Countach, either... both inside and outside of automotive circles...)

Funny how things work out... the next generation MX-5 will be potentially lighter than the first generation one, with an engine of similar size (instead of the big 2.0 it gets now)... which will take it back to its roots.

 

[kikie]

I accidentally clicked "NO". Don't kill the messenger because I know it's a legenday car. I'm accually one of the "YES" clickers in spirit.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

It's been said and said again but it's been around since the end of the 80's, it's been around pretty much since rap was recognized (wonder why rappers don't drive them...). It also shows a company's dedication to the brand. I mean look at how many cars have been completely re-engineered as an idiot compromise for the people who didn't like the last-gen (the Ford Explorer is a textbook example). Models barely last 4-5 years now because there's always another replacement with a new cheesy name coming. And then we have the Miata/MX-5. I mean sure, it looks like a women's car. But think of the dedication of Mazda to keep improving the car while maintaining its spirit. The fundamentals haven't changed. Still a small, 2-door roadster with 4 cylinders. But does everyone in the general public have to know a car to make it legendary? No. The people who really give a damn about what's being driven and how it's driven, the driving enthusiasts, have the say, and I'll tell you that even if you don't, I double take Miatas. Just because it's a nice, simple, great car. I mean a Ferrari F40 is pretty much a greater car all-around than a Miata, it's obvious. But even that great of a car was replaced. And the Miata, well, it's the same as it's been.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

Legendary.

 

[Adamgp]

Not a legend.

Modern classic maybe.

 

[Famine]

The 2006 you had sounds like it was a nice car. Why did you only have it briefly and what did you trade it for?

It wasn't technically mine (about half of it was) and a 1999 Honda Accord Type-R.

 

[176OES]

edit... nevermind... move along people, nothing to see here