The Morality of Adult Films

[Ibonibo]

^Have you read beyond the first half senstence?? He asked for a quote that was already given in the my inital post

 

[LeMansAid]

^Have you read beyond the first half senstence?? He asked for a quote that was already given in the my inital post

Sorry, I quoted you for something entirely different. That being Ten's deliberate, and "naughty", misspelling of source, that you reproduced.

 

[ryzno]

Sorry, I quoted you for something entirely different. That being Ten's deliberate, and "naughty", misspelling of source, that you reproduced.

I don't know where this is going, but I ain't him.

 

[TenEightyOne]

A serious search on this industry (beyond pronhub) is quite shocking.

On the suicide...


And the list goes on...

Interesting. If you use actual figures then white male doctors and black male guards are the most likely to commit suicide, there's zero elevation for porn workers, so to speak.

You'll find that there are a lot of porn workers and that some of them commit suicide just like any other people, quite often for exactly the same reasons (childhood/money/drugs/love/humanity). I'd wager that a good number of them also drive 4x4s and that you could find correlating figures for abuse/suicide amongst the ownership.

 

[Lain]

Ah yes, the good ol' Post Hoc fallacy.

This:
"Bob became a porn star then subsequently killed himself, therefore his being a porn star must've been the cause."

is about as logical as:
"Bob ate Pop-Tarts for breakfast then subsequently killed himself, therefore his Pop-Tart breakfast must've been the cause."

 

[Keef]

Somewhere along the line, an individual made a decision concerning something based on their opinion of that thing. Somewhere further down the line, that decision was either maliciously forced upon their society or accidentally learned by it. That knowledge was then passed down from generation to generation.

And now we think pornstars are dirty, we think black people are lazy, we think gay people are "fine", we think women are cute, and we think white people are oblivious that any of it is wrong.

 

[Imari]

Cause it's something done in private.

How private are we talking? I mean, this is not like people having sex in the middle of a park where you can't avoid seeing it even though you're looking for it. You actively have to go looking for porn.

So really, one could infer that there's an implied acceptance on the part of the viewer. And there's explicit acceptance on the part of the performers. So while porn may be publically available it's viewed and performed privately.

So, no real problem. Right?

Really. Glad you enjoyed it. I didn't.

You didn't enjoy having someone ask you if you'd like to earn more money doing gay porn?

I totally understand. Life is very difficult sometimes. I'm not sure what I'd do if someone asked me that. Say no, probably, but I hope to God on that day I have the strength to do it.

Yes I am, never been there. If its like FB then you don't see much. I also see people who get off taking up skirt shots of unsuspecting women in public(on other sites). WHICH IS ILLEGAL.

Yes it is, and what's worse is that it's a violation of consent. Those women did not agree to be photographed in that way. That's why it's different to self posted photos and porn where consent is given, explicitly or implicitly.

My point was some of the scenes pretty much condone abuse and sodomy. Some of the acts would be illegal.

See pretty much any adult movie ever which condones violence and murder. Porn is no different to other media in that regard.

You should also note that there's nothing wrong with anal sex. It can be quite fun, if you're into that sort of thing. Of course, you should always discuss it with your partner beforehand.

And don't tell me some of the women don't get traumatized in the industry.

Of course they do. People get traumatised in every industry. It should be avoided wherever possible, and if people are doing it intentionally they should be locked up.

You should also note that some of the men get traumatised too. The industry is made up of both sexes.

But you should know that off camera most porn productions, even the most extreme ones, go to great lengths to make their actors and actresses comfortable. Both before and after, there's usually support and care, at least in the ones I've seen. You'd be surprised how often shoots stop and start in the middle simply because someone needs a moment. But you don't see any of that in the final cut because it's edited to look like they were just going at it for half an hour.

I've seen some beautiful women do "castings" which are on the verge of sexual assault. And you never see them again. Cause of the sick minded perverts in the industry.

Certainly these things happen, and they shouldn't.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2016/0...ed-for-forcing-women-to-perform-as-actresses/

People do get arrested for this. It's the same with any industry, abuses happen and we should do everything possible to stop them. That does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And lets face it, if we talk real porn, not the playboy stuff, you need to have some psycological damage to begin with to get into that kind.

No. You don't.

Read up on the actress that started this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasha_Grey

It's simply that given the status of porn in our society even if someone was comfortable with it they might rightly assess that the potential damage if they were ever found out would be far greater than they'd earn. Which says nothing about them, and everything about everyone else's perceptions of porn and the people who take part in it.

 

[McLaren]

Cause you aren't going to take nude photos for the world to see for free, or would you.

I'm pretty sure a large chunk of the nude photos on the web came from people who didn't want that to begin with.

You answered your own question.
At one time I was offered to do porn. I went in applied and the guy said and I quote. "You could make more doing gay porn."(I has just gotten out of a prison work camp and I was 175lbs of muscle(now I'm 190lbs of beer gut) Regardless y'all know my view on that subject. It was also that day I learned the industry doesn't care about the actors views/belifes. I don't do "gay for pay." That was the ONLY offer.

Then you weren't going to get into the industry. To this day, the only way men can get in is being blessed in the pants or doing gay porn.

My point never was about being forced. My point was some of the scenes pretty much condone abuse and sodomy. Some of the acts would be illegal. And don't tell me some of the women don't get traumatized in the industry.
I've seen some beautiful women do "castings" which are on the verge of sexual assault. And you never see them again. Cause of the sick minded perverts in the industry. Porn could be beautiful. But perverts have destroyed the industry with abuse and fetishes, porn has gone to hell!!!!

If it traumatizes them, that's unfortunate. But, they consented to it in the first place. You don't consent to getting roped and bound for sex and then blame the entire industry.

While I have nothing, absolutly nothing against porn, the parties involved,
it is not only for the money they do it. Most of these girls had very bad experience as minors, have huge psycological problems, and are physiclly and mentally abused, on set and behind.

And as long as this industries has as much demand as it has, these broken people will be further broken. I am not a saint or taking a high moral ground here, as I am guilty of watchin it too.

A good breakdown from what happens in that industry is the case of Jessie Rogers

I quote the most relevant part to the thread and in order to stay AUP friendly.

Except that's one girl's outlook. A girl who did porn for 1 year, and already had self-admitted issues with molestation and rape. Did she also include in that thread that after she became anti-porn, she stated that sex is only for procreation? Or how shortly after she quit, she asked Prince Yahusha whom she was dating to quit & commit to her? Did she reveal that when she made videos playing video games, she still used her porn name?

Yes, for a girl so distraught over porn, she sure was attached to using her alias from that terrible time in her life to keep bringing in revenue until 2015 when she went off the Cyber grid completely. It's the same for a lot. I'm not denying many have had an awful time in the industry (Jenna Haze recently tweeted she didn't enjoy any of it after retiring), but these girls are some damn good actors to be making claims about the industry after retiring despite videos talking about how much they like it. And in the age of social media, now there's tweets, Instagram, and real interviews talking about their enjoyment.

So, you're gonna need a citation for "most" girls, as others who remained much longer, and enjoy the industry such as Scarlet Red & Aidra Fox say otherwise. And, like many who stick around longer than a couple years, typically end up get into casting & directing. Lisa Ann these days, serves as an agent and advisor to a few girls every year in the industry.

There is a lot of abuse, trickery,...
And i would go as far as say that all people in that business are mentally not very healthy. The suicide rate of pornstars is shocking...
Seriously a good look behind the curtains of that business is an eye opener....

Seriously, you don't think there's much hidden controversy in the regular film industry as well? I'm pretty sure drugs, suicide, abuse, and rampant partying goes way back with Hollywood, so there's no saints in either industry. Agents pushing their girls to show a little more skin? There's definitely stories in Hollywood there of sleazeballs.

 

[Danoff]

It's interesting. Anyone that agrees that porn should be age restricted has in effect acknowledged that there are moral or ethical issues tied to porn. Regarding age, if there should be a line, why should there be a line? Yet-to-fully-develop brains seems maybe a valid argument, but that would imply that there's something wrong with that type of information being input. Another view to posit is that minors should not be allowed to watch depictions of things they are not allowed to do / give consent to having done to them, in real life. Under that rationale though, a documentary with someone driving a car on a public road, or drinking alcohol, or voting, or buying cigarettes, or any number of other "ordinary" actions in it, should be age restricted.

You're over-simplifying quite a bit. There are lots of things I don't let my kids see. At my kids' age (3.5 and 1) I don't want my kids seeing people in terrible pain, having fun doing unsafe things, having tattoos, getting killed, killing others, being beaten, having sex, giving birth, having surgery, being mutilated, breaking a bone.

I also try to avoid exposing them to really scary imagery, like overly angry menacing imagery, or even just people being terrified. For example, I've been a bit judicious about the angler fish scene in finding nemo, even the shark scene in that one is a bit beyond what I like for a 3.5 year old. I would not sit my kids down and put on The Shining, despite the fact that most of what is scary about it would go over their heads. I remember that as a child I thought the movie Ghostbusters was a legitimately scary movie at one point.

Basically, anything that their brains need maturity to fully understand I try to dispense when I think they're ready for it. Naughty language, sex, certain depictions of nudity (but not necessarily just any depiction of nudity), violence, irresponsible behavior, gory imagery - even medical, scary imagery, and psychological trauma.

I also hold back certain kinds of music, and music with certain mature lyrics.

Someday I'll expect them to engage in naughty language, sex, viewing sexualized nudity, I'll teach them when violence is appropriate, how to judge when behavior is irresponsible, how to assess gore, I'll expect them to be scared, and they'll even likely suffer some psychological trauma and have to comfort others that suffer it.

So I shield them from all of it, and someday I expect them to encounter and/or participate in all of it. That's the job of the parent, to prepare your children for adulthood through teaching and exposure. On a side note, this is also how other things like mathematics and physics are taught. Someone once described teaching math or physics as teaching a system of lies and slowly, over time, removing the lies. Good teachers know how and when to introduce the next level of complexity.

While I have nothing, absolutly nothing against porn, the parties involved,
it is not only for the money they do it. Most of these girls had very bad experience as minors, have huge psycological problems, and are physiclly and mentally abused, on set and behind.

And as long as this industries has as much demand as it has, these broken people will be further broken. I am not a saint or taking a high moral ground here, as I am guilty of watchin it too.

Most of them have huge psychological problems or most of them are psychologically unusual? I have no doubt that some of them have psychological problems, but so do engineers, doctors and lawyers. Politicians ALL have physiological problems, and yet we put them in charge of our laws.

Let's take your premise for truth though. Let's go as far as to say that one must have suffered a certain kind of abuse to be able to participate in porn. Is it then immoral to watch? I'd argue that you have to be, to an extent, psychologically broken to participate in formula 1... yet we watch that without any moral concern right? Downhill skiers put their lives on the line every time they race, and sometimes end up a pile of broken bones. Football players end up brain damaged from concussions. Should we not watch this? Certain kinds of psychological disorders make for good race car drivers and football players.

In fact, certain kinds of psychological disorders often make for the absolute best performance in LOTs of fields. Insane degrees of self-confidence often lead to success. Narcissism spawns all sorts of fantastic art, engineering, medicine, racing, boxing, and throwing of footballs.

Some of the best music is spawned by drug-riddled suicidal thoughts. Should we feel bad for listening to the music?

I don't want to see someone get traumatized, whether it's in porn, sports, or anything. I do not, however, mind appreciating the fantastic creations that people who have been traumatized create. Fiona Apple was raped as a child, and as bad as that experience was, and as much as that person deserves to go to jail, I won't hold that against her when it comes to appreciating her music. Our past makes us who we are, and in her case, who shes is is someone who makes the world beautiful.

A good breakdown from what happens in that industry is the case of Jessie Rogers

There is a lot of abuse, trickery,...
And i would go as far as say that all people in that business are mentally not very healthy. The suicide rate of pornstars is shocking...
Seriously a good look behind the curtains of that business is an eye opener....

Robbin Williams killed himself, let's stop watching comedy. Some comedians are pretty damaged people, I guess it's immoral to watch the art that these damaged people create. Robbin Williams made the most people laugh when he was hurting and on coke.... but he chose to do it and what he created was art.

 

[Imari]

If it traumatizes them, that's unfortunate. But, they consented to it in the first place. You don't consent to getting roped and bound for sex and then blame the entire industry.

Not to mention that if you do extreme stuff, then you should be familiar with how it's done off camera first. Which means safewords and trust beforehand.

I'm not denying many have had an awful time in the industry...

Movies aren't sunshine and roses either. Suicide Squad is a mainstream big budget movie, and it sounds fairly horrible to work on. I'm sure there are reasons and I'm sure everyone consented, but it sounds like a bad time.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2903735/suicide-squad-set-nightmare/

Same with porn stars, I reckon. It's an unpleasant job, but you're getting paid. Same for a lot of people in the world to a greater or lesser extent probably. Not that many people actually get to do the job that they love.

Seriously, you don't think there's much hidden controversy in the regular film industry as well? I'm pretty sure drugs, suicide, abuse, and rampant partying goes way back with Hollywood, so there's no saints in either industry. Agents pushing their girls to show a little more skin? There's definitely stories in Hollywood there of sleazeballs.

Roman Polanski. Bill Cosby. I'm sure there's more but those two sprung to mind.

I know there were stories in Japan of bikini models, even underage ones, being encouraged to go on dates with businessmen. Pretty dodgy stuff. Personally I'm far more suspicious of the industry behind young female pop stars than I am of porn. Porn wears it's heart on it's sleeve.

 

[mister dog]

It's the eternal struggle of our morals and standards vs our beastly desires and dirty sexual fantasies.

Best example of Darwin and his theory is sex and porn IMO, the most noble nobleman turns into a horny pervert when no one is watching . It's nature and although no one wants his daughter or family member to get involved in the porn industry we wouldn't want to live without it, so we should appreciate the people that do actually make a living out of it.

Heck when they raided Osama Bin Laden's hideout they found a massive collection of porn

 

[Imari]

It's the eternal struggle of our morals and standards vs our beastly desires and dirty sexual fantasies.

Why are desires beastly and sexual fantasies dirty?

It's nature and although no one wants his daughter or family member to get involved in the porn industry...

Depends. If that's what she wants to do then I want her to do it. Or him, if it's a male.

I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that there's men in porn too. Which is probably another innate cultural giveaway like what @Danoff was talking about, men are assumed to be willing and eager for any sex that they can get. I think it's tough for a lot of people to empathise with a guy who has spent hours having sex even though he's not particularly into it.

 

[mister dog]

Why are desires beastly and sexual fantasies dirty?

Most urges and desires and especially sexual ones, are in itself something beastly (natural if you want), it's evolution's way of giving us that intense desire to engage in the act of reproducing, or in the case of gay people a substitute for said desire but without the possibility due to sexual preferences. Doesn't matter really as it's subconscious and as long as we all chase that high of getting an orgasm we're happy. We don't even realize why we want it so bad anyway it just comes to us due to our hormones.

Depends. If that's what she wants to do then I want her to do it. Or him, if it's a male.

I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that there's men in porn too. Which is probably another innate cultural giveaway like what @Danoff was talking about, men are assumed to be willing and eager for any sex that they can get. I think it's tough for a lot of people to empathise with a guy who has spent hours having sex even though he's not particularly into it.

Nah i wouldn't want my daughter or son to end up in that world, as it's a shady one and you end up with a social stigma everywhere. But that's me being a hypocrite i suppose as i do like porn.

 

[PeterJB]

If a family member of mine did porn, it would probably stop me watching it for a good in case an advert with their naked body appears on my screen...

 

[ryzno]

I'm trying to figure out how come every time I post anything in this sub forum I have to go through multiple day debates, over points that some people agree with, while other users debate, debate and debate, while never really giving their 2 cents on the subject.

Y'all want to talk about morals!? What would y'all do if it was your family member?


Finally someone who seems to know something about the industry.

I'm pretty sure a large chunk of the nude photos on the web came from people who didn't want that to begin with.

Which is a problem in user supplied porn. That can be found on the same "free" sites as legit porn vids/pictures. While the subject is about the "industry", the problem is a larger subject.

Then you weren't going to get into the industry. To this day, the only way men can get in is being blessed in the pants or doing gay porn.

I guess a Tec 9 ain't enough for a woman, yet enough for "gay for pay", go figure.

If it traumatizes them, that's unfortunate. But, they consented to it in the first place. You don't consent to getting roped and bound for sex and then blame the entire industry.

Still seems to be a beat um up, spit um out kind of industry. Even if they do "agree", things happen that a safety word can't stop. I'm sure y'all have seen a vid or two where all looks good then you see a slap to the face that she wasn't expecting, yet still has to "finish cause she "signed up" even tough you can tell she didn't want to.
I liked you until the bolded part.
They should not have to be subjected to perverts who go beyond what the contract said, just so he can "give the money shot" cause hes gotten burned out on "normal" sex.

===========================

Y'all keep trying to justify the industry, yet ignore the fact women have had to go to the ER after some scenes. I'm sure if they would have told some of them, what she was REALLY getting into, they would say 🤬 no. Who goes to the ER, during or after sex!?(except heart patients)...

I really don't get y'all at times. I know y'all are book smart, but it seems reality and street smarts are lacking at times. Have any of y'all tried the industry or tried to join it? Or are these "facts"/opinions y'all read?

If y'all feel the industry is filled with Saints. I guess I'm done here. Cause I feel bad for a woman that has to be beaten just for the "stud to get off". And if you enjoy that shame on you! I might be a crazy, redneck, bigoted fool. But I do have some respect and compassion for people even if I don't agree with what they do. And if y'all really think they really "like" what they are doing, I'm speechless.

I'm really lost at this point trying to figure y'all out.....

 

[Northstar]

yet ignore the fact women have had to go to the ER after some scenes. I'm sure if they would have told some of them, what she was REALLY getting into, they would say 🤬 no. Who goes to the ER, during or after sex!?(except heart patients)...

I don't see anyone ignoring it, what I do see is people saying the risk comes with the job. Hollywood has had it's fair share of on-set injuries and deaths as well.

Cause I feel bad for a woman that has to be beaten just for the "stud to get off". And if you enjoy that shame on you!

I know it may be hard to believe, but there are plenty of women that are into BDSM (both receiving and giving) and it's not always the female on the receiving end (in fact femdom is surprisingly popular based on how many videos there are).

(For the record I'm not into BDSM, but I know it's out there and readily available)

 

[Famine]

Y'all want to talk about morals!? What would y'all do if it was your family member?

Why would that matter? What do personal likes and dislikes have to do with morality?

 

[McLaren]

I
Still seems to be a beat um up, spit um out kind of industry.

No. Most girls leave on their own terms, usually because it's an extremely competitive industry.

Even if they do "agree", things happen that a safety word can't stop. I'm sure y'all have seen a vid or two where all looks good then you see a slap to the face that she wasn't expecting, yet still has to "finish cause she "signed up" even tough you can tell she didn't want to.
I liked you until the bolded part.
They should not have to be subjected to perverts who go beyond what the contract said, just so he can "give the money shot" cause hes gotten burned out on "normal" sex.

You got a source for this?

Because in reality, porn is nothing but a show in most cases. Bondage and S&M movies are quite clearly well monitored because this is stuff that is deemed legal & available for the public to buy and watch. If a girl says stop, they have to stop. If a girl was pushed beyond her limits, & they don't stop, it becomes rape.

The stuff you see is all staged to make it seem legit up until the point the girl starts practically begging/asking for more. That's how it sells. Everyone knows sex is nothing like what porn conveys, so why would any other part of what the industry shows become any more believable?

===========================

Y'all keep trying to justify the industry, yet ignore the fact women have had to go to the ER after some scenes. I'm sure if they would have told some of them, what she was REALLY getting into, they would say 🤬 no. Who goes to the ER, during or after sex!?(except heart patients)...

You mean the same way actors and actresses have had to as well in Hollywood? Damn, how the hell would someone like Tom Cruise not realize he could get seriously injured by doing his own stunts?

You're trying to take a small amount of accidents and act like the entire industry conducts itself all the same.

I really don't get y'all at times. I know y'all are book smart, but it seems reality and street smarts are lacking at times. Have any of y'all tried the industry or tried to join it? Or are these "facts"/opinions y'all read?

Considering what I read typically comes straight from the porn star themselves, yes.

If y'all feel the industry is filled with Saints. I guess I'm done here. Cause I feel bad for a woman that has to be beaten just for the "stud to get off". And if you enjoy that shame on you! I might be a crazy, redneck, bigoted fool. But I do have some respect and compassion for people even if I don't agree with what they do. And if y'all really think they really "like" what they are doing, I'm speechless.

I'm really lost at this point trying to figure y'all out.....

Get off your high horse. You're sitting here acting like you have any clue about the industry because you once got offered to take some man meat for cash, and think those girls are in some sort of actual danger. No one here said the industry is full of saints, hell I've said the exact opposite.

What's really lost is that you continue to focus on one part of the industry and condemn all of it. Porn covers so many giant fields, bondage itself is nothing more than broad term.

 

[Joey D]

I'm trying to figure out how come every time I post anything in this sub forum I have to go through multiple day debates, over points that some people agree with, while other users debate, debate and debate, while never really giving their 2 cents on the subject.

The whole point of this subsection of GTP is for opinions and debates surrounding current events. I think we're under the impression that if you're posting on a discussion board, especially in a sub-forum regarding hot-button social issues, that you want to have some form of discussion surrounding them. Plus debate is good, it forces you to research your position more and understand issues from a viewpoint that is different from your own.

On topic though, I'm not sure what kind of porn you're looking at @ryzno if you seem to think it's an industry where women are beat up, spit on, and sent to the ER. I think most mainstream movie aren't anything like that....I'll be happy to do some more research for you though, you know for science.

 

[McLaren]

The whole point of this subsection of GTP is for opinions and debates surrounding current events. I think we're under the impression that if you're posting on a discussion board, especially in a sub-forum regarding hot-button social issues, that you want to have some form of discussion surrounding them. Plus debate is good, it forces you to research your position more and understand issues from a viewpoint that is different from your own.

On topic though, I'm not sure what kind of porn you're looking at @ryzno if you seem to think it's an industry where women are beat up, spit on, and sent to the ER. I think most mainstream movie aren't anything like that....I'll be happy to do some more research for you though, you know for science.

He's likely referencing bondage porn, in which sometimes, the girls are slapped. However again, nowhere as bad as it appears b/c it's not like these guys are cocking back and bringing in a 90mph swing into someone's face. They're typically light, repeated slaps that yes, do leave a mark after a while. Nothing along the lines of being actually beaten though; you'd see these people showing real pain and emotion if they were being legitimately tortured by paddles and whips. Some people do get off on that, though.

The issue with spitting on the face amuses me, though. Okay, that is a bit berating, but come on now. We're talking about women who openly invite semen on their face, and the spit is what bothers someone. Spit is practically nature's lube in porn....

 

[Imari]

Y'all keep trying to justify the industry, yet ignore the fact women have had to go to the ER after some scenes. I'm sure if they would have told some of them, what she was REALLY getting into, they would say 🤬 no. Who goes to the ER, during or after sex!?(except heart patients)...

I really don't get y'all at times. I know y'all are book smart, but it seems reality and street smarts are lacking at times. Have any of y'all tried the industry or tried to join it? Or are these "facts"/opinions y'all read?

If y'all feel the industry is filled with Saints. I guess I'm done here. Cause I feel bad for a woman that has to be beaten just for the "stud to get off". And if you enjoy that shame on you! I might be a crazy, redneck, bigoted fool. But I do have some respect and compassion for people even if I don't agree with what they do. And if y'all really think they really "like" what they are doing, I'm speechless.

I'm really lost at this point trying to figure y'all out.....

You really do seem to be caught up on the idea that porn is all bondage, abuse and rape scenes. It's not. If anything, I'd say that's a tiny minority of all the porn produced. Most of it is simply vanilla sex between two people in positions that expose well to the camera.

There are nasty and abusive people in the industry, no doubt. Like there are in any industry. You're not selling the idea that porn is worse than anything else very well. It's just a job. Some good, some bad. If you get into a bad situation, there are absolutely laws that can help you. Most people that take jobs where they're abused don't have evidence on camera.

But let's say for the sake of argument we remove all the criminals from the industry, and it's only composed of people who truly want to be there and do what they're doing for the money that they receive. Is such an industry still offensive to you?

 

[polysmut]

There are nasty and abusive people in the industry, no doubt. Like there are in any industry. You're not selling the idea that porn is worse than anything else very well. It's just a job. Some good, some bad. If you get into a bad situation, there are absolutely laws that can help you. Most people that take jobs where they're abused don't have evidence on camera.

Agreed. If anybody is treated wrongly at work, they should have a way to get out out of that situation without any negative repercussions against themselves for doing so.
Where compensation is necessary, it should be made available.
Whether it's porn or not is irrelevant.

But let's say for the sake of argument we remove all the criminals from the industry, and it's only composed of people who truly want to be there and do what they're doing for the money that they receive. Is such an industry still offensive to you?

In that hypothetical you have a utopia of a workplace.
Whether it's porn or not is irrelevant.

 

[ryzno]

Why would that matter? What do personal likes and dislikes have to do with morality?

I guess nothing... Even though we base our morals on what we believe.

Listen I don't have anything against porn and the people in it. I just think some scenes go to far. Also BDSM is not a category I watch but the thumbnails are there... And I still stand by my point that taking off your clothes and showing your private bits for cash is immoral. Kim K and the whole family comes to mind.

However again, nowhere as bad as it appears b/c it's not like these guys are cocking back and bringing in a 90mph swing into someone's face.

I beg to differ. I saw a scene where the girl took the money shot to the face and was showing off for the camera and dude did knock the crap out of her while she wasn't even paying attention. And dude got what was coming to him, she went strait for his willy after he hit her.

But let's say for the sake of argument we remove all the criminals from the industry, and it's only composed of people who truly want to be there and do what they're doing for the money that they receive. Is such an industry still offensive to you?

I'm not offended by it, but I do feel bad for some of them.

Get off your high horse.

I'm not on any high horse... But it gets hard trying to explain crap, then have to explain more crap that I didn't even say. And I wasn't going to be the receiver, I'm not a "bottom"...
But I spent more time with them then you think. Trying to get to know them and get my foot in the door. Witch was a waste of time and something I'm glad I didn't do, cause it wasn't what they were advertising. They came down from the Hotel with hot women, all the time to the food court, ordering pizzas from us.
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My closing statement in this thread. ANYONE who takes off their clothes for cash lost some moral points in my book. ANYONE who has sex for cash prostitution or porn lost some moral points in my book. Either that or I have no clue what morals are. And I've thrown some of my morals out the window before. I'm no saint and ain't better than anyone on this site, I NEVER said I was.

And this is for everyone in the O&CE section. Why the heck do I get cross examined every time I say something? Yet other people will say almost my same thoughts, just worded differently and no on says a word?

 

[Famine]

Even though we base our morals on what we believe.

You might...

 

[Danoff]

My closing statement in this thread. ANYONE who takes off their clothes for cash lost some moral points in my book. ANYONE who has sex for cash prostitution or porn lost some moral points in my book. Either that or I have no clue what morals are.

Probably the latter. I'd be interested to know where you draw the line on taking off clothes or sex for cash. Like... is a bikini ok? How about an ankle? How about topless? What about top on but just bottomless? How small can the thong get before it's immoral? Pasties? Merkin? What about something that's translucent... sheer but still kinda see through?

On the sex front, what about a massage? What about a massage that gets someone off even though no contact was made with private parts? What about sex with your spouse for money on camera where no nudity is shown? What about a farmer who needs to extract some genetic material from a prized boar?

And this is for everyone in the O&CE section. Why the heck do I get cross examined every time I say something? Yet other people will say almost my same thoughts, just worded differently and no on says a word?

Must be the way you said it. Maybe you just put it more succinctly than everyone else so we just have an easier time referencing it.

 

[Imari]

Listen I don't have anything against porn and the people in it.

You sure? Because a lot of what you say comes across as "I'm not racist, but...".

I beg to differ. I saw a scene where the girl took the money shot to the face and was showing off for the camera and dude did knock the crap out of her while she wasn't even paying attention. And dude got what was coming to him, she went strait for his willy after he hit her.

I dunno if you watch professional sports. Even sports that are ostensibly no contact occasionally have fights:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacers–Pistons_brawl

And sports like rugby have fights all the time.

Just because someone gets hit doesn't say anything about the industry. It's wrong and people who hit others should be punished, but it also happens everywhere so it's hard to use that to specifically designate why one industry is more immoral than others.

I'm not offended by it, but I do feel bad for some of them.

Why would you feel bad for someone getting paid to do something they enjoy? That seems like something that you should be happy for them.

I'm not on any high horse... But it gets hard trying to explain crap, then have to explain more crap that I didn't even say. And I wasn't going to be the receiver, I'm not a "bottom"...

Why does that matter? Is it worse to be taking it instead of giving it?

My closing statement in this thread. ANYONE who takes off their clothes for cash lost some moral points in my book. ANYONE who has sex for cash prostitution or porn lost some moral points in my book. Either that or I have no clue what morals are.

It's possibly true. You're very adamant that it's immoral, but you're having a hell of a time explaining clearly why it's immoral without resorting to "because I said so".

And this is for everyone in the O&CE section. Why the heck do I get cross examined every time I say something? Yet other people will say almost my same thoughts, just worded differently and no on says a word?

The only other person I see in this thread with similar views is Ibonibo, and he has also been asked about why he thinks the way he does.

You're not being singled out here. You have an opinion that it other don't readily understand your reasons for holding. It's a discussion board, so people are asking you about it. If you don't want to reply, put us all on ignore. Or don't post in an opinions section of a discussion forum.

 

[Blitz24]

I actually do think that Sasha Grey, in the same sense as Alex Rodriguez, can offer a lot to teach. One of the biggest reasons is that the individual has been through the experience of "immorality" (using quotes to avoid taking a side) and can help give the students an understanding of what it's like to be there, and then discourage them from doing so if the person considers it a mistake. Rodriguez took PEDs, Grey starred in Adult Films. They can take their past and help the next generation of individuals make a more informed decision.

 

[Danoff]

Rodriguez took PEDs, Grey starred in Adult Films.

So one of them cheated and one of them didn't. What equates those two in your mind?

 

[Blitz24]

So one of them cheated and one of them didn't. What equates those two in your mind?

The equating comes from the fact that they made decisions that could be frowned upon by many. So they can help educate others what consequences come from said decisions, because they experienced it first-hand.

 

[Danoff]

The equating comes from the fact that they made decisions that could be frowned upon by many. So they can help educate others what consequences come from said decisions, because they experienced it first-hand.

It's a bad analogy then. You're analogizing someone who has made a decision that is frowned upon based on arbitrary morals which can't be substantiated with someone who broke the rules of the sport. If you want to compare a porn star to someone who has made a decision which can arbitrarily be frowned upon, compare them to Manny Pacquiao. He didn't do anything wrong in his sport, but some people frown upon boxing in general.