The Morality of Adult Films

[MatskiMonk]

Just my two cents... I don't automatically see adult films as immoral, however I believe there are morality issues around the lower end of the industry, and some of the behavior that inevitably runs alongside it.

 

[Danoff]

Edit: I doubt I'd actually kill someone but I'd defiantly throw a punch or two with whoever prompted her to do it. There's nothing to show if you don't have an audience. Then I'd give her an ear full about hanging out in the wrong crowds/places.

If she's an adult, and nobody forced her to do it, why are you throwing punches at the people who prompted her to do it? It's her choice, not theirs. Or do you believe that she can't make a choice? Now switch all of the genders involved, and it's your son getting naked in front of a bunch of women... is it his choice? Or do you blame the women?

If I'm guessing at your mentality a little bit here, my guess is that you think she's impressionable because she's a woman. So you blame those around her since her little female brain can't possibly be responsible for this. That's backed up by the statement "daddy's little girl", which suggests an infantile view of a woman. This is what is referred to as "benevolent sexism". Taking care of a woman because she cannot be assumed to take care of herself. Defending her against all of the men who so obviously tricked her into doing something impure by going around punching them. A benevolent sexist is the man who shields his wife from financial details because he doesn't want her to have to worry her pretty little head over such things. A benevolent sexist is the guy who encourages his wife to to stay at home with the kids so that she doesn't have to deal with all of the stress of being out in the workforce. Here's an article on it.

"It's a very paternalistic, protective view of women, and it seems kind of appealing as a sort of chivalry," Goh said, "But it does contribute to inequality, because these men don't expect women to achieve high goals."

By examining the nonverbal cues, like expression and body language, that men had during conversations with women they were meeting for the first time, Goh found that this form of sexism wasn't just an idea in men's heads. It changed the way they interacted with women nonverbally.

"Men actually act friendlier and smile a lot if they have more benevolent sexism," Goh explained. He measured their ideology using a test called the Ambivalent Sexism Index. It had men rate their agreement with statements like "women are too easily offended" (an example of hostile sexism) and "a good woman should be set on a pedestal by her man" (an example of benevolent sexism). Statements that suggested equality, like "women shouldn't necessarily be rescued before men during a disaster" gave negative scores.

No matter how the women acted, men were more likely to show patience and friendly nonverbal cues the more highly they rated on the benevolent sexism scale.

"Sexism can appear very friendly and very welcoming, so in the paper we said that sexism can act like a wolf in sheep’s clothing," Goh said. "We add that sexism can consciously or unconsciously cloak itself in friendliness, so in a way it’s more insidious and treacherous than hostile sexism."

A funny thing about that is that the article has a little link in it that goes straight to a discussion of the gender pay gap... the assumption that the gender pay gap is due to sexism is benevolent sexism.

Your over-protective paternalistic instinct to go beat up all of the guys enjoying the show your daughter was putting on is an attitude that helps keep women down.

 

[Famine]

I'd defiantly throw a punch or two with whoever prompted her to do it

Is she so weak-willed that it would have to be someone else's decision or can she choose to expose herself of her own volition?

 

[MoLiEG]

Don't want to fight with anyone. I just wanna give my opinion 👍

I don't judge the morality of the performers, the things they do and the films themselves. I just enjoy them whenever I feel like watching.

Gotta say, it was odd when I watched one of these movies with my fiancee for the 1st time.

 

[huskeR32]

My friend who's been helping me work for the last few years(my road dogg) sees my son naked all the time around bath time. He stays next door so when we get home we'll have a few beers and a smoke session, while wifey deals with Jr. It's not that I want him to, but the way the apartment is designed if you sit in the living room you can see down the hall and see his room and the bathroom, he sees him darting all the time in between rooms. That said I could care less cause I know he ain't into that and it's not like he sees much anyways, its over 15 feet away and Jr. moving at warp speed between rooms, there ain't much to see even when he is naked.
I keep trying to tell y'all I do look at things differently and I do asses the situation. In this situation I see no harm, now in another year or two that's going to be another story.

Why?

 

[LeMansAid]

There's nothing to show if you don't have an audience.

I look at porn a couple of times a week.

Do I even need to comment?

 

[ryzno]

If she's an adult, and nobody forced her to do it, why are you throwing punches at the people who prompted her to do it? It's her choice, not theirs. Or do you believe that she can't make a choice? Now switch all of the genders involved, and it's your son getting naked in front of a bunch of women... is it his choice? Or do you blame the women?

Jesus Christ man! I'm getting tire of this circle jerk of questions that take my words and blow them out of proportion. I don't care if it's a guy or girl, if it was my kid doing anything like that below the age of 25; I'd have a nuclear cow at the thought of a group of guys or girls getting off to my child regardless if they are an adult and it would break my heart at the thought of me failing as a parent. I'm trying to raise my son so he can be better than me and not have to think about demeaning jobs just to get by!
Now after 25 when MOST people have common sense they can do what they please. Don't mean I'll agree or invite them to holiday meals.
Now if y'all want to keep trying to fit me in a stupid hypocrite box or a stupid sexist box or just trying to make me look stupid, go ahead . I know what I think and it ain't a dang thing you posted in that link.
I do find it interesting how y'all sit around acting holier than thou, I'd like to see what you'd really do if you found a video of your daughter getting screwed by 6 guys on pornhub. I bet you'd be heart broken to. And if you'd have no problem with it, maybe y'all need to ASK YOURSELVES some questions... Cause you failed as a parent in my book if your young adult has to do porn to get by. I'd take them back in before I'd ever dream of approving. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Is she so weak-willed that it would have to be someone else's decision or can she choose to expose herself of her own volition?

I never said anyone was "weak-willed". Please stop putting words in my mouth...

Why?

Cause he'll be getting bigger and by then hopefully I can trust him by himself in the bathroom and there will be no need for him to run around naked.

Do I even need to comment?

If that's all you can add to this then no you don't...

 

[Danoff]

Jesus Christ man! I'm getting tire of this circle jerk of questions that take my words and blow them out of proportion. I don't care if it's a guy or girl, if it was my kid doing anything like that below the age of 25; I'd have a nuclear cow at the thought of a group of guys or girls getting off to my child regardless if they are an adult and it would break my heart at the thought of me failing as a parent. I'm trying to raise my son so he can be better than me and not have to think about demeaning jobs just to get by!
Now after 25 when MOST people have common sense they can do what they please. Don't mean I'll agree or invite them to holiday meals.
Now if y'all want to keep trying to fit me in a stupid hypocrite box or a stupid sexist box or just trying to make me look stupid, go ahead . I know what I think and it ain't a dang thing you posted in that link.

Quite a few people here keyed off of the exact same sentiment in your post. It struck us all the same way - as refusing to recognize that one of the parties involved has a choice. I don't see any other way to read it.

dit: I doubt I'd actually kill someone but I'd defiantly throw a punch or two with whoever prompted her to do it. There's nothing to show if you don't have an audience. Then I'd give her an ear full about hanging out in the wrong crowds/places.

Even the last bit, the ear full about hanging out in the wrong crowds/places doesn't suggest an actual choice, but suggests that she was tricked by the crowd. That she went with their suggestions over her own. Nothing in this suggests that she is capable of making a choice. All of it, every last word, suggests that everyone but her is responsible. The only bit that even resembles her choice is the part where you imply that she should know better than to put herself in a position where she'd get tricked. Basically that she should know how impressionable she is.

Don't just tell me you think I'm wrong, explain why I'm wrong. I'm reading your words here and I only see one way to interpret them. If you think I've misinterpreted them, please do explain. Also, I'm not exactly going far into left field here, this is a very common attitude. I could see it even as a teenager when my parents took this kind of distinction between me and my sisters. My wife could see it when her parents did it to her as compared to her brothers. It's not like I'm ascribing something unusual to you here. I'm giving your words the only meaning they can have and it ends up with you acting like the majority of people in the US.

I do find it interesting how y'all sit around acting holier than thou, I'd like to see what you'd really do if you found a video of your daughter getting screwed by 6 guys on pornhub. I bet you'd be heart broken to. And if you'd have no problem with it, maybe y'all need to ASK YOURSELVES some questions... Cause you failed as a parent in my book if your young adult has to do porn to get by. I'd take them back in before I'd ever dream of approving. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Hopefully I'll know my daughters well enough to understand what's behind that video. If I thought that my daughter was doing that out of desperation (whether that's for money or attention) I'd consider it a failing on my part and I'd be heartbroken. I wouldn't want to go out punching people or killing anybody, but I'd want to help my daughter get into a place where she didn't feel like she was desperate. On the otherhand, if I felt that my daughter was just promiscuous by nature, maybe something I started noticing in high school, and thought that she honestly enjoys that sort of thing, great - more power to her.

It's not a great career. I'll be doing what I can to educate my kids about the various career options available to them so that they can make intelligent decisions about how to spend their time in college (if they go) or where to focus their energies on doing whatever it is that they feel suits them. I'm going to teach my kids to ski and snowboard. Maybe they'll want to become professionals at that, but that's not a great career either for a variety of reasons and I'd try to convey to them why that's the case and let them make their own decisions. Same thing if they want to be a musician or an artist. Each of these fields is one where all the hard work in the world may not pay off. There is a high degree of luck in each one as to whether you do well.

Stripper would be likely more profitable than porn star and has a higher long term upside, and has fewer occupational risks/hazards, and can even lead to healthy life-long hobbies. Stripper though would not be a building block to something greater. Being a stripper isn't grooming for the next, better-paying position. It's the end of the road.

The main thing though is that I view these as jobs. I wouldn't want to see my daughter doing anything out of desperation for money or attention, anything at all - including running for president (let's face it, that's why Hillary and Donald are doing it). I'd want to see my kids doing something they enjoy that puts them on a long term trajectory toward financial and emotional stability. It's not impossible that porn fits the bill, but it's not likely either.

 

[Famine]

I never said anyone was "weak-willed". Please stop putting words in my mouth...

I didn't. Notice how they're not in your quoted post, not in quote marks and in indigo. They're my words - and my question has gone unanswered.

You seem to believe that if your (adult) daughter gets her top off, someone else made her do it. Your answers over and over again suggest that you simply could not conceive that she could show off her own breasts for her own reasons without anyone's prompting - and you would react violently to an entirely innocent audience for her acts.

So to return to the question. Is she so weak-willed that it would have to be someone else's decision or can she choose to expose herself of her own volition?

Cause you failed as a parent in my book if your young adult has to do porn to get by.

Your book also contains gems like 'porn is immoral, I watch porn twice a week' and 'if my adult daughter got her jubblies out I'd beat up her audience for no reason' (both paraphrases of things you've actually said in this thread), so it's pretty fair to say it's a bit of an odd book with odd values.

 

[LeMansAid]

@ryzno You're now doing the double hypocrite. You've long suggested that you consume what you hold disdain towards others for consuming, and now you're throwing "holier than thou" around at people that simply have consistent morals.

Admittedly, part of me would be impressed though if you could find another layer that would complete a triple.

Seriously though, consistency and fairness won't always align with what you've been taught, or what feels like right and wrong. Stabbing a child to death in a video game should probably feel at least a little wrong - but it's not wrong at all. In a case like that, we can absolutely go by feelings as to whether or not we will engage in the activity ourselves, but not to determine whether or not someone else can. There is no victim in the video game situation, and there is no victim by default in a porn situation. As much as they might both trigger feelings in a person that make it feel wrong - they're not wrong, and pragmatism should override feelings in cases like that.

 

[Imari]

Jesus Christ man! I'm getting tire of this circle jerk of questions that take my words and blow them out of proportion. I don't care if it's a guy or girl, if it was my kid doing anything like that below the age of 25; I'd have a nuclear cow at the thought of a group of guys or girls getting off to my child regardless if they are an adult and it would break my heart at the thought of me failing as a parent.

And yet you probably want your children to have kids of their own. Which by definition entails them getting someone else off.

What a dilemma.

I'd put it to you that raising a child that can consider a situation and choose for themselves how they want to react is success as a parent. If what makes them happy is getting their tits out, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. You don't seem to be able to see it either, because you're still hiding behind "NUDITY BAD!"

There is nothing wrong with being nude. It's the most natural state for a human to be in, and I think it's somewhat of a tragedy that western society is so repressed that most people feel horribly uncomfortable about it. Some people can't even have sex with the lights on, which is missing out on half the fun if you ask me.

I do find it interesting how y'all sit around acting holier than thou, I'd like to see what you'd really do if you found a video of your daughter getting screwed by 6 guys on pornhub. I bet you'd be heart broken to.

Perhaps you'd like to think so. Perhaps we would. But at least while not in the heat of the moment we're able to objectively assess the situation and choose how we'd like to react to it, which seems to be more than you're capable.of.

And if you'd have no problem with it, maybe y'all need to ASK YOURSELVES some questions... Cause you failed as a parent in my book if your young adult has to do porn to get by. I'd take them back in before I'd ever dream of approving. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Who said anything about having to do porn to get by. I was talking about if my son or daughter chose of their own volition to do porn. If they want to be on Pornhub taking six big black men, then best of luck to them. I'll help them however I can, if that's what they want.

I find it amusing how controlling of your children you are, as though your idea of how they should live their lives is more important than their own ideas.

 

[ryzno]

And yet you probably want your children to have kids of their own. Which by definition entails them getting someone else off.

What a dilemma.

You know good and well what the heck I meant. I really am done with this. Y'all act like y'all some psychoanalysts without the PhD.

Perhaps you'd like to think so. Perhaps we would. But at least while not in the heat of the moment we're able to objectively assess the situation and choose how we'd like to react to it, which seems to be more than you're capable of.

So you do think I'm stupid! Thanks for the conformation not to talk to you again.

Who said anything about having to do porn to get by.

Y'all have been saying it's a job from day 1, you work to get by right? As Danoff said it's a temporary career, unless they work behind the scenes later on. Just like stripping.

 

[Imari]

You know good and well what the heck I meant. I really am done with this. Y'all act like y'all some psychoanalysts without the PhD.

No, I don't know what you meant. Because taken literally what you say makes no sense. You're hypocritical to the n-th degree, and you have a complete inability to take a breath and think about what you're saying. You continue to regurgitate stuff that you must have been taught as a child as though it were a valid philosophy.

It isn't, and one assumes that you're old enough to be able to think for yourself now. Try it.

So you do think I'm stupid! Thanks for the conformation not to talk to you again.

If we're being honest, then yes, I do think that you're a bit stupid. You're incapable of believing that others might react to a situation differently to you, and that we would lie about it instead. This is not meant to be offensive, I'm simply calling a spade a spade.

You continue to refuse to examine your own beliefs to be able to explain why you think as you do. You simplify it to "NUDITY BAD", and then take it out on us for pointing out how hollow that is. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but as long as you can't explain it then you'll keep having problems in this forum.

And if you keep coming up with stuff like your need to be violent to people who have happened to have their eyes open when your daughter takes her top off, then people are rightly going to mock you. People like you are why women are treated as second class citizens that can't think for themselves, and whose only purpose in life is to titillate men.

So yes, you can go back to your echo chamber where your beliefs aren't questioned. Or you can think about whether your current views really reflect the man that you want to be. Perhaps they do. Or perhaps you never really took the chance to think seriously about your views on women and what they might choose to do.

Y'all have been saying it's a job from day 1, you work to get by right? As Danoff said it's a temporary career, unless they work behind the scenes later on. Just like stripping.

I work to get by, but I chose the particular job that I have because I enjoy doing it. Whether it's a temporary career or not doesn't change that either. I've had temporary jobs that I've done that I had no intention of making my profession, but I chose them because they paid the bills and they seemed (and were) fun.

Jobs are not always fun, but most people have at least some choice about the job that they get. As I've been saying from day 1, I'm fine with anyone who chooses to get into porn. I have reservations about anyone who feels forced into it. But I have reservations about anyone who feels forced into their job, be it stacking shelves or cleaning sewers.

Sometimes we do what we've gotta do not to starve to death whether we like it or not, but porn is no different in that way than any other job.

 

[Danoff]

Sometimes we do what we've gotta do not to starve to death whether we like it or not, but porn is no different in that way than any other job.

Just to dovetail onto this a little bit...

There's no such thing as "this is the only thing I can do" in the US. A pretty young girl has quite a few options aside from porn. Stripping, for one, has similar skill requirements, just a bit of basic dancing to learn and it's off the the races. Stripping, though, requires that you show up regularly, work hard consistently, and you get paid a decent amount. Porn requires that you show up infrequently, work hard (depending on the role and what you're getting paid, some of the roles for these girls are really not that challenging), and get paid a bit better. It's easier, in many respects, than stripping. But only to someone who doesn't mind a lot of casual sex.

There are other options too. You can be a greeter or waitress at the local restaurant and do just fine as a young hot girl. Tips with be forthcoming whether you're particularly good at your job or not. The downside of waiting is that it requires all of the regular attendance but doesn't pay as well.

My breakdown above assumes that all you have going for you is being young, hot, and a girl (and STD free). No skills, no education, no actual marketable anything. There are, of course, other jobs like teaching, or daycare, or cleaning, or department stores, or cashier... lots of other jobs. The more you make the cleaner your act generally has to be. So if you're working a daycare you need to be someone that parents will leave their kids with all day. Meaning you can't be on drugs, or generally strung out, you need to be pleasant, good at engaging children, nurturing. These are things that you don't really have to do to wait tables.

So we have porn which will pay $500 per film for the easy work (maybe $2k for the hard work). Do 4 of those per month and you're making $24k in a year for working a total of 48 days. Or you could make $24k in a year working every single day and dealing with an annoying boss at the cheesecake factory. Or you could work as a stripper and pull down $70k in the year working your rear end off (somewhat literally) every night.

Different people will choose different ones of those. Whether they want to engage in recreational drug use, whether they want to have to show up to a job on a regular basis, whether they want to deal with a boss, or have to work hard... or whether they're comfortable being nude on film, or having casual sex on film. It comes down to the personality. It's a different optimization problem for each person depending on their skills, interests, comfort level, willingness to work, authority issues, and hobbies.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Sometimes we do what we've gotta do not to starve to death whether we like it or not, but porn is no different in that way than any other job.

I think that for those who did not particularly like it or want it, the constant fear of their past being used against them or to manipulate them is an issue that someone who used to stack shelves for a living wouldn't have.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think that for those who did not particularly like it or want it, the constant fear of their past being used against them or to manipulate them is an issue that someone who used to stack shelves for a living wouldn't have.

The point of the thread is whether or not it should have that stigma. The whole thing started with a scenario like that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The point of the thread is whether or not it should have that stigma. The whole thing started with a scenario like that.

Fair enough, I wasn't really referring to the stigma of it though.

 

[Famine]

Judging by the latest update from @ryzno, we're not going to be getting an answer any time soon about why his daughter can't make her own decisions, why he'd beat up the audience that benefitted from her decisions or why he is part of the audience for other people's daughters' decisions when he feels so sociopathically violent about his peers.