The Myth Of Car Damage

[Frank Budesa]

I'm not sure even the PS3 could have an infinite variety of damage. I would assume it would be more along the lines of having different sections of the car have a damaged and undamaged version, so if you hit straight on, you would get a damaged or complete loss of bumper and maybe a bent hood depending on the severity, but the hood always bends in the same place. Or something like that. I think what some are hoping for is to take a car to Test Track, ..., and have a shower of parts in all directions.

BTW, has anyone else run backwards at Laguna Seca, and hit a car head on just after [or before depending on how you look at it] the corkscrew? It's an interesting look at the physics at work in GT4. It works in GT3 too.

 

[mbavaria30s]

BTW, has anyone else run backwards at Laguna Seca, and hit a car head on just after [or before depending on how you look at it] the corkscrew? It's an interesting look at the physics at work in GT4. It works in GT3 too.

best ever?? It also works running from the top of the seattle hill.

 

[badcatnobiscuit]

The bad part about Damage would be that it would be expennsive to repair more expensive cars (maybe 100,000 for wrecking a F1)
The good part would be that damage would teach us to drive more carefully

 

[jman86]

💡 How about this idea, PD goes full out with the realistic damage in GT5 but if you bang up your car or even worse total it and you couldn't finish the race, your car will still magically return to normal after the race and you don't pay a dime for repairs.

Unrealistic, yes, BUT it will be one less thing to stress about if money is tight and you choused to have realistic damage at the start of your career.

Besides, we're all going to be playing each other online in GT5 ( Hopefully ) and although I currently have my 80 gold licenses in GT4 and I purposely avoid hitting the AI cars (although I wish they would do the same for me ) I can't promise that I won't have an accident during a damage-enabled-race online and take one you guys down with me, ending both our races for that particular session. Will I be sorry for what happened? Of course. Will I be crying in sorrow if you had to pay for my mistake by having to repair your beloved machine that you worked so hard to obtain? Maybe I exaggerated a bit too much but perhaps.

Anyway what do you think? Have the optional realistic damage but don't worry about having to repair your car so that you can enjoy the race more.

 

[gumpy]

Sports Car GT had a decent damage system. It was not graphic but where the tyre wear meter was there were damage meters as well. It took time to fix the damage in the pits and slightly reduced performance.

Making the damage system optional will help like the EA Sports GP games.

 

[the hodge man]

very sexy der alta kicking Adestroy off , from what i ahve heard he is a bit of an arse! , back to the topic anyways i think that the gt series having no damage makes the game more unique , it does not have the run of the mill feeling that many racing games of today have

 

[ADestroye]

hey i not been kicked

 

[Der Alta]

hey i not been kicked

Yes, you have. A second time.

AO

 

[dolande]

Whether a damage model or penalty model implemented (like the 5sec one) it will be main stream, I mean targeted to the mass public. This is a product for the masses (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62667) not at specialized SIM for a few (GTR sales anyone?). But then again with the capabilities of the PS3, PD may decide to go all out and try to satisfy everyone including several levels of damage in the game. Very cool for us GT fanatics but the regular gamer may say: “WTF I’m buying a $50 dollar game and I can’t complete the license? I’m not buying it”. If the licenses test and the missions stay in the game (and I think they should) you shouldn’t be able to turn damage off on them, because the game will loose consistency.

 

[skicrush]

Jman, that's an interesting take on the direction damage can go. I hadn't thought about us banging each other up too much, but I'll stick to my realism guns on this one. Except that I don't know if (or which) race bodies require you to pay for damage caused by you. But I think that's just a risk that you'll have to run. Of course, if damage is selectable, I guess you could turn it off, but IRL you're SOL when someone else totals your car. We've learned recently (ADestroye) that what goes around comes around, and if some jerk makes a habit of destroying other people's cars, he'll be avoided. As for the rest of us, sure, we'll feel bad when we mess someone's baby up, but that's the risk of racing. Ask anyone out there who AutoX's. It sucks, and sometimes you're the bad guy, but that's the risk you run. It is like that in ANY sport in the world, except that in racing, for the most part, the vehicles take the beating instead of people getting injured.

As for the thousands of pieces your car is supposed to break into when you wreck, I would actually like to see a grease spot STAY on the road and affect your tires when you run over it. Same goes for broken glass, or shards of fiberglass left on the roadway. You'd have to adjust your racing line to get around the "debris area." They could even make that part of the license tests--recognizing an obstacle and picking the best line around it. Now THAT would be realistic.

 

[skicrush]

Whether a damage model or penalty model implemented (like the 5sec one) it will be main stream, I mean targeted to the mass public. This is a product for the masses (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62667) not at specialized SIM for a few (GTR sales anyone?). But then again with the capabilities of the PS3, PD may decide to go all out and try to satisfy everyone including several levels of damage in the game. Very cool for us GT fanatics but the regular gamer may say: “WTF I’m buying a $50 dollar game and I can’t complete the license? I’m not buying it”. If the licenses test and the missions stay in the game (and I think they should) you shouldn’t be able to turn damage off on them, because the game will loose consistency.

I guess I don't see how damage would affect the license tests in any way. They fail you when you do much more than graze a wall anyway, or even drive on the grass with more than 2 tires (which wouldn't cause any damage under normal circumstances). The missions are different, but I would assume those would operate under the same level of damage you had selected at the beginning of GT mode (since that is my approved way of going about damage). It's no harder to make various damage levels in a GT game than making different levels of difficulty in any RPG under the sun.

 

[dolande]

I guess I don't see how damage would affect the license tests in any way. They fail you when you do much more than graze a wall anyway, or even drive on the grass with more than 2 tires (which wouldn't cause any damage under normal circumstances). The missions are different, but I would assume those would operate under the same level of damage you had selected at the beginning of GT mode (since that is my approved way of going about damage). It's no harder to make various damage levels in a GT game than making different levels of difficulty in any RPG under the sun.

Well you can't turn TC on/off during license/missions test, so I think you shouldn't be able to to turn damage on/off either.

 

[skicrush]

Well, I've been attacking it from a selection at the beginning of GT mode, not something you can change while you go (Live4speed convinced m this was the way to go. In any case, I STILL don't see how it affects your license tests. And for the missions, I'd take damage over the lame 5 sec penalty anyway. What does it matter, again? The 5 sec penalty almost invariably kills your chance of completing the mission. Damage COULDN'T be any worse. I guess I must be missing something--I don't see how it would negatively affect EITHER tests or mission. If anything, it would improve them by allowing you to not fail--you'd just have to live with the consequences. And if it happened close enough to the finish line, it would be BETTER for you than getting a fail 50 M from the finish line.

 

[Frank Budesa]

As for the thousands of pieces your car is supposed to break into when you wreck, I would actually like to see a grease spot STAY on the road and affect your tires when you run over it. Same goes for broken glass, or shards of fiberglass left on the roadway. You'd have to adjust your racing line to get around the "debris area." They could even make that part of the license tests--recognizing an obstacle and picking the best line around it. Now THAT would be realistic.

That's a great idea. When I saw the pace car for the first time I immediately thought I would possibly encounter a full course yellow some time during the game, which would go along well with the above. Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[_kamikazefly_]

As for the thousands of pieces your car is supposed to break into when you wreck, I would actually like to see a grease spot STAY on the road and affect your tires when you run over it. Same goes for broken glass, or shards of fiberglass left on the roadway. You'd have to adjust your racing line to get around the "debris area." They could even make that part of the license tests--recognizing an obstacle and picking the best line around it. Now THAT would be realistic.

nice, NICE, thats one way to put it without going into extensive damage ideas, great idea.

 

[skicrush]

They could do a loud POP! sound when you hit something, and they could show your tire wear in an flashing red for the popped tires. Make them behave 3 times worse than totally red tires or something. 1 at a time you could limp back at decent speed, but two or more and you'd be really crawling along to get to the pit. And they could make them turn black and then make the black fade away over a lap or two when you run over oil. I can also see making us drive around the wrecks as they're cleared if they can't manage to do a caution lap. Maintaining the caution lap speed, and pit lane speed too, that would add to it too and make it even harder! But that's probably something that would have to be selectable, too, or just included in the simulation damage selection.

 

[_kamikazefly_]

They could do a loud POP! sound when you hit something, and they could show your tire wear in an flashing red for the popped tires. Make them behave 3 times worse than totally red tires or something. 1 at a time you could limp back at decent speed, but two or more and you'd be really crawling along to get to the pit. And they could make them turn black and then make the black fade away over a lap or two when you run over oil. I can also see making us drive around the wrecks as they're cleared if they can't manage to do a caution lap. Maintaining the caution lap speed, and pit lane speed too, that would add to it too and make it even harder! But that's probably something that would have to be selectable, too, or just included in the simulation damage selection.

you know what, i think could have been possible on the ps2, and i think im liking this idea better then extreme damage modelling. it gives everyone a good challenge!

 

[ADestroy88]

in a real race debris gets cleared off the track and if there is oil usually at least a yellow flag, nice idea but not really realistic

 

[TheTubaMan2]

Okay, realistic damage. Let's look at it this way how realistic are the controls between you and the game? If you have the wheel its close, but still not perfect. In the fact gt4 is a game the controls are not perfect and you have little chance of saving the car if you are to crash. Humans make errors. I would be extremely angry to be on the 22nd hour of a 24 hour race and slam my car into a wall, or have a tire blow. I'm afraid to say gt4 is best without damage. So what if you can cheat the corners. If you really care about realism you're not going to cheat the corners. Accidents happen damage just makes these accidents far more frustrating. Designers try to avoid frustration. Frustration turns good games BAD.

 

[ADestroy88]

if you are doing a 24hr race something is bound to go wrong as often does at le mans, but yeah if you slam into a brick wall its prolly gonna be the end of your race. Seems fair to me,as it is the fastest way around a lot of corners in GT4 is to not brake at all

 

[JohnBM01]

Post #214- that reminds me of my Midnight Club experience. Let me try to run through some damage indicators form past games I've played. Maybe I can strike gold here...

Kind of a weird idea I had was to follow the Tokyo Xtreme Racer series way of damage. Your ride doesn't suffer any such damage, but during a race, you vs. your opponent is set up like a fighting game. If you trail the other person, you lose energy. If you whack something, you lose energy. If you've exhausted your energy, you lost.

The N64 version of "F1 World Championship" had damage toggling. If you damage something, the indicator on the right-side of your screen turns red. If you break something, the indicator flashes red.

The GTA clone "True Crime: Streets of LA" featured a damage radar for a damaged car. When shot at or ramming into objects, the area blinks from white to red. When the car got really damaged, it blows up.

Or if you want to be real crazy, the Grand Theft Auto series had a weird damage system, but tires blow out, hoods fly off, doors get ripped off, and when you see dark black smoke, next hit, you'd better jump out, or BOOM! Your car blows up. If any others are in the way, they blow up with you. And then just for fun, you can run around the track and steal another car, then race it to victory!

Finally, the RUSH series featured arcadish damage. Your car doesn't blow up until you (1) land on your hood, or (2) hit something very hard head-on. The car remains warped all the way around.

Many ideas, but there may be an idea about an alternative damage system. Know any? Share.

 

[James2097]

In the online races, I'm sure that if PD let damage have any lasting (beyond the current race) impact on your game, sim mode progress etc. If you had to pay big $$$ to fix a car that an idiot slammed into on purpose, it would frustrate beyond words.

I reckon online races could end up kinda like arcade mode - single race events or self-contained champoinships where any damage sustained is fixed automatically after every race. I doubt PD would let drivers (in this situation) smash their car beyond a drivable state, where it's unable to get to the pits... Sitting on the side of the track smashed up while everyone else burns round for any number of laps would be a bit annoying...

If you allow cars to be totalled online, the frustration factor for casual gamers would probably be too high. It could easily be different single player though, I wouldn't really have a clue, as much as anybody has so far...

Assuming online play doesn't affect sim-mode and is more akin to arcade (one off races), a toggle for different damage levels is fine for online races... just have different catagories for different damage levels, and the n00bs can race daihatsu charades with damage turned off, all the way to the crazy dudes running full grids (hopefully) of F1 cars with full damage on the ice arena Haha! Oh No!

 

[666ADestroy]

you have a point but how would you damage someone else car without damaging your own in the process effectivly losing you the race is the other raceers go on undamaged.
i supopse they could have qualifying then the people at the back of the grid have a higher chance of being smashed up

 

[James2097]

Yes, but surely you can't bet on everyone, noobs especially, to conciously never crash into others even if they don't want to! There will be a lot of paint swapping, its just the nature of the game.

 

[Dave A]

Exactly, it's the nature of the game, cars getting damaged and wrecked in racesis also the nature of the sport. **** happens and if your racing along and some retard screws you up, youve been shat on. Pay whatever ammount of cr, fix car race again. I think the key would be to not overcharge for the cost of repairing a car, it would suck to pay 100,000Cr to fix a Viper GTS-R or something beacuse someone else hit you but there would still need to be a cost incurred.

 

[skicrush]

SO, does anyone know if any race series actually imposes fines or requires the offender to pay some penalty or some portion of the cost to fix a damaged car? I'm not aware of any such rules, but I don't exactly go around reading the rule books for the various series. Any AutoXers that know anything about this?

I would imagine that when GT5 rolls out in 3-5 years, that this will probably not be an issue, though it would certainly be the most realistic (however RL turns out to be). Since 2 player and LAN are selected from Arcade, I'm guessing whatever damage is available in Arcade would probably be what you'd have to work with for online play as well.

 

[James2097]

I don't think PD would ever really approach their racing/championships around having different bodies or authorities putting on races with different teams entering cars with complex insurance systems etc. As much as I want that...

The GT series has always approached the concept of motorsport very simply. You buy the cars, you own them and are responsible for them (only uprading/tuning/oil etc so far, damage repair is simply another thing to add..). It would be nice of PD to incorporate some of the motorsport rules and different race team structures etc, but the player has always been central to everything that happens in a GT game. The way GT is evolving, I feel damage repairing (if in GT5) will be the player's responsibility to fix/pay for.

Pro Race Driver (though it suxorz) kind of tried to mimic different real world racing series, GT is a planet all to itself. Lets call it... GTPlanet!... hang on thats really quite lame. Moving right along >>

If PD were conjusive to the idea of incorporating various real world motorsports series into their game, they would've tried this to some extent in past iterations of the game. As it is, any car pretty much pops up randomly to race against nearly any other vaguely similarly specced car! Its a mixed motorsport variety night and this is perhaps its charm to some extent.. I'm happy with it!

 

[skicrush]

Wow, I hadn't even thought of that. I was just curious to know if ANYONE actually makes the wrecker pay for the wreckee's damages. From any kind of racing. I pretty much assumed they would just have one system for doling it out--I think it would be too hard to customize it depending on what kind of race you were in.

WOW! This thread is going to become a seroius competitior to the what do you want in GT5 thread!

 

[Dave A]

IRL the racing teams themselves pay to fix their own cars, they only get fined from the authorities if anyone on the team did something against the rules, car racing is a contact sport so contact itself is not against the rules but obviousely theres is still a limit tohow much. The racing bodies don't charge the teams for the repairs though, if the teams don't repair the car themselves they don't have a car simple as that.

 

[_kamikazefly_]

sh!!!!!t, i guess damage modelling is going to be really tough for polyphony, the deeper you delve into it, the harder and more complicated it seems!