The Myth Of Car Damage

[master212]

i dont know about you guys but the whole thrill of the game is to play aggressive and if damage is going to be a part of it then half the fun will be taken out of it. when a car is just starting a turn i love sliding on the inside of the turn and pushing him to the outside to throw off the driver or just completely hit him on the side at 200 mph while he's making a 90 degree turn. aggressiveness is a big part in the thrill of the GT series. when im playing multiplayer with friends none of us have any mercy. we hit each other so many times during a race. if there was damage we would be stuck in 1st gear by the end of a 2 lap race on Super Speedway. i think that if they have some scratches and dents would be cool but your whole car going out of commission for a couple of "minor" hits at 200 mph is retarded

well im out thats all ive got to say

 

[James2097]

PD have already made it clear they don't want us racing too aggressively! 5 second penalties anyone? They want us to race politely and follow the racing lines to win... overtaking missions anyone? I don't think Kaz condones bumper cars very much...

 

[JohnBM01]

I'm still contemplating on the statement "don't implement damage unless it's done extremely accurately." I think Kent said this, but I don't think anyone does it best. If I was running away from cops in a Grand Theft Auto game and I get hit by somebody, I'd likely die at high speed. Then again, hit anything (if it was completely real), and your chances of dying would greatly increase. I don't think cars explode when running into a tank. Many of us always contest the meaning of "The Real Driving Simulator." In one sense, the challenge is to make the game as realistic as possible, while not making it too realistic to the point where it's not fun. Even with the car damage many people want, who is at liberty to say that damage will make the game more fun while damaging your car will limit any chance of winning races? Now sure, it adds challenge for a game where too many people say Gran Turismo is "too easy," but does it make it fun to damage your car from end-to-end and still win races? Then too, how do other manufacturers see their cars showcased in this game? Are they there for auto makers to market their cars in a video game, or are they there for the auto makes to offer their cars for people to modify and enjoy en route to beating the game?

Too many questions, too few answers. But to something like this, you have to consdier all sorts of variables. I couldn't care less for damage because I care more about racing. Then, I think many of my peers would feel the same way. For many of us, damage would hinder our enjoyment. I don't really know what's my favorite game that includes damage. Either that, or it didn't come to me during this post.

 

[dolande]

PD have already made it clear they don't want us racing too aggressively! 5 second penalties anyone? They want us to race politely and follow the racing lines to win... overtaking missions anyone? I don't think Kaz condones bumper cars very much...

Agree but people should be able to play the way they want. other wise the appeal of the game will be diminish. I'm starting to agree with the "damage toggle switch"

 

[skicrush]

I was just wondering if they ever tag someone for the damage they caused when it was willful or just negligent. I don't think anyone does that, but I wasn't sure. Especially AutoX, where most folks don't have a lot of money laying around. I just wondered if they try to make you a little moreresponsible for your actions.

 

[EGFerio]

I was just wondering if they ever tag someone for the damage they caused when it was willful or just negligent. I don't think anyone does that, but I wasn't sure. Especially AutoX, where most folks don't have a lot of money laying around. I just wondered if they try to make you a little moreresponsible for your actions.

Last year 12hr Sebring. Max Papis & Max Angelleli ram each other in the final hours and took them self out. But I forgot what was the fine.

 

[JohnBM01]

The Myth of Car Damage... you know, I just had an idea. I know the manufacturers won't allow car damage in the GT series, much less some manufacturers (guess who) being in GT in the first place. So my point is, would the fantasy F1 race cars be candidates for car damage? They are mostly fantasy F1 race cars. So while existing manufacturers won't allow damage, do you think it would be possible for fantasy cars in a GT game to have damage?

 

[Cobra_UK]

Perfect Gran Turismo 5 on PS3 damage for me would be like this:

Settings (damage off or on with 3 settings)
- 1st setting - limited visual only allowing for paint scratching only and without ability to flip cars but allow tyre marks on all surfaces
- 2nd setting - full visual only, same as realistic but not affecting performance and without the ability to flip cars or loose wheels or tyres
- 3rd setting - realistic with visual and performance damage with HUD icon sistem similar to Forza Motorsport but more detailed; physics should allow for realistic contact between cars, statics and spectacular and violent crashes like in Colin McRae and Rallisport Challenge series but better with ability to flip cars in realistic mode

Damage (realistic mode)- dent or loose bumpers, body kits, spoilers, wind splitters, wing mirrors, aerials and wheels or tyres; damage, dent, bend, crumble every bodywork aspect of the car and even make them flap, hang or jam (like a wing crumbling and flapping against the tyre and jaming against it, maybe even causing a puncture), paint scrapping for light contact; have engine explode, catch fire blow malfunction if not serviced when needed (obviously same system as currently but with a warning icon when the service is desperately needed) or damage to underneath of car if the ride height is set too low (then just let physics take place and damage the car accordingly); tyres should blow if they are still used in when the current system shows them as red and critical condition); dirt build up on cars depending on the surface; every window or light can be cracked or smashed; ability to flip cars and leave tyre marks on all surfaces.

Give me that and up to 4 player split screen mode, online or LAN with up to 10 players, 3D motion-captured human element everywhere, current cars and tracks redone for PS3 quality (drop some cars that aren't worth it), multiplayer drag racing, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche cars, Formula 1, 3, 3000 and other cars (1000 cars and 100 tracks) and replay modes with the ability to save them from every race single or multiplayer and ability to choose my team colours in terms of pit crew and driver and I'd declare myself in GT heaven.

Hehe, well I can dream can't I?

 

[KENJIusa]

I got this from www.ps3land.com:
10-11-2004

New Gran Turismo 5 Details Emerge

Kazunori Yamauchi-san CEO of Polyphony Digital, spoke at a Japanese event today and confirmed that he expects to see real-time damage in the next instalment of Gran Turismo (GT5) on the PlayStation 3.

The ability to damage cars in real time has been sought after ever since the first Gran Turismo on the PSOne. The inability in the latest GT game Gran Turismo 4 has lead to criticism of the series. Polyphony previously stated that they couldn’t include car damage because the majority of car manufacturers didn’t want to have realistic models of their cars being damaged in video games. But other racing simulation games have included car damage with realistic cars since then.

Fortunately now, it would appear that Polyphony, after four iterations of the sector-leading franchise, have managed to convince the motor industry to allow car damage for the next Gran Turismo game.

Yamauchi stated that his team will only create realistic car damage when they can create a realistic car physics/handling engine that reflects the damage of the vehicle. Other details such as car rolling have yet to be revealed.


here's the link: http://www.ps3land.com/news/article76.php

 

[philbishop]

IMHO, I'd rather they sorted out the AI before worrying about damage. GT is a game not a sim

 

[enuttage]

Speaking of myths...

Car damage not being allowed by manufacturers IS a myth. Just last night I was playing GTR FIA on my PC. Lotus, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Lister, Dodge (Chrysler), etc., all have damage modeling.

Not sure why anyone thinks they don't allow it.

Why they haven't allowed licensing for the GT series is anyone's guess (or maybe hasn't been disclosed), but GTR, a much lesser known, smaller budget operation, sure as hell has it.

BTW, for those in this thread concerned with a racing sim and not an arcade-style 'sim', I'd highly recommend it. I race on the amateur level IRL, and with the exception of the caliber of car in the game (higher), it feels very much like real life racing. I'm quite impressed. the best simulation driver I've ever played, hands-down.

The GT series has their work cut out for them if they want to mislabel themselves as a 'real life' simulator again.

That being said, many of you are clearly expressing the reason why GT hasn't gone down this road...you don't consider it fun. Period. For me, a simple toggle, or separate mode without damage is all it would take, but others disagree.

We'll find out when v.5 hits the market. Until then, v.4 is a really fun game, but not at the top of the heap when it comes to 'real life'.

-E

 

[toska1]

i agree enuttage, hopefully they will have dammage in gt5 if not i reckon it will be a reall let down for the series, and yes it should be on a toggle switch, maybe with full damage, half damage (just bodywork and it doenst affect the feel off the car) and then damage off this would be great but will it happen this is the question !

 

[ZeratulSG]

Other details such as car rolling have yet to be revealed.

That would be awesome, full damage modeling plus the ability to realistically roll the car! Imagine going sideways into turn 1 at Apricol Hill, hitting the sandtrap at the wrong angle, and *POW* you're watching turn 2 doing backflips in front of you.

This I wanna see.

 

[JohnBM01]

This is why I don't think enabling damage is going to be a good idea. I'm sure if Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) in association with Polyphony Digital had a survey of if we want car damage, many of us will want it. There will be many who don't want car damage. Here's a rather sarcastic indirect quote made by a fellow GTPlanet member:

"...oh, I don't want my beautiful car ruined!" -???; ??/??/200?

I recently got (finally) TOCA Race Driver 2. I already had a thread on if cars can sparkle in games, and after playing through... 64% of Career Mode, I've had all kinds of wrecked race cars. If you slam right into a wall or another car at very high speed, you lose your two front wheels and get kicked out of the race. Sometimes, I INTENTIONALLY tried to ram into someone off the starting line, just to punish the pack for getting in my way. The damage on my car shown. And at that point, I begin to say that "this is a race, not a beauty contest!" But the damage plays a negative factor. You can bang up your engine pretty bad and lose top speed. You can have your gearbox damaged and have acceleration sacrificed. Have wheel damage and it will be tougher to handle or get up to speed. Damage your steering input, and it will be much tougher to use the steering wheel effectively. Mess up your suspension, and you'll have trouble trying to handle well.

GT is not ToCA RD 2; ToCA RD 2 isn't GT. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.

 

[skicrush]

Speaking of myths...

Why they haven't allowed licensing for the GT series is anyone's guess (or maybe hasn't been disclosed), but GTR, a much lesser known, smaller budget operation, sure as hell has it.

-E

Uh, I'm pretty sure it's the EA licensing issue. I didn't know it was up for debate still.

 

[enuttage]

Uh, I'm pretty sure it's the EA licensing issue. I didn't know it was up for debate still.

Probably long ago disclosed, it's just that I was unaware of it. I don't spend a ton of time over here.

What's the EA licensing issue?

And how is it that it only affects Sony/PD?

-e

 

[skicrush]

Because Playstation rights were sold to EA long ago, maybe even before PS2. It affects Sony because EA isn't making any use of the licenses, but they ARE keeping PD (or anyone else, for that matter) from using it. Which is good business sense, even if it makes them dicks. But its a BAD deal for the MFGs--we slowly forget they exist. They're not real--they're just abstract ideas (yeah, because they're in a GAME!!) Plus, it makes them seem even snobbier (we cost too much for you--so much, in fact, that you can't even go for a VIRTUAL drive. HA HA HA (evil laugh)).

 

[JohnBM01]

The obvious question here is, if EA isn't making the most of the PlayStation licensing or whatever, why don't PD just go after the licensing for the cars we've been wanting for all this time? I don't really care to see those car companies represented in any GT game, but why has it been tough getting the licensing deals for the car companies I've been mentioning?

I'm not saying any names, because for quite a while, I've kept reading and hearing about "it's inexcusable to not have xxxxxxxx in GT4." The EA licensing deal has been hot on most of us GT gamers minds.

If GT5 will have full-on car damage, how can PD or someone convince gamers who don't like car damage to still enjoy the game? I don't really care for car damage, but how do you convince (if you can) a gamer who doesn't like car damage to not feel so bad about it in GT4?

 

[mld0806]

Unfortunately, until they can design a GT AI that doesn't just "stick to the line" regardless of player car position, damage just isn't something that's going to work. If I've got the inside line IRL, someone on the outside is going to have to give, or else have very few friends in the pits. In the game, you get a run, it doesn't matter, you're getting hit. So, while I love damage and such (LOVE Dirt to Daytona for my stock car racing), I won't accept it if I'm going to be knocked about by AI cars that just don't see me.

As an example, I'm running Suzuka in the Mazda Club "RE" for the sixth time to try and win it after being smacked into the sand every time by AI cars that I had the line on......

 

[gsavill90]

What about flat tires from just barely going off track?
Who here wants to ruin a 100-lap race at the end simply because they send one tire into the dirt?

What about breaking something under the car when we fly over rumble strips?
Do you guys want your car to go out of commission when you straddle the rumble strip and accidentally break any number of exposed objects under the car?

You've got a point. I think it would just be frustrating with damage. Anyway, if we wanted damage, we wouldn't buy Gran Turismo. No damage is sort of the trademark of the GT series. Also, as has been pointed out, more realism means less cars...

 

[JohnBM01]

In a game like the thug racers in "Pro Race Driver," you get banged into hard by these punks. Even with a beat-up car, you can still win. I don't really consider it fun to win with a beat-up car, but I'd consider myself thankful I can still win under any circumstances. That's one reason why I don't think you see damage in GT games. Someone mentioned fewer cars to use. Having many cars in the game means that for 700 cars, it means that there's no excuse for someone not to find one true favorite. If it's in the game, enjoy the experience.

There would be some alternatives. When it comes to car damage, it doesn't have to be visual. When you don't patch the PC game "Sports Car GT," you get messages like "Body Damaged" and such. The worst damage you can have for the car is when you see "Wheel and Airdam Damaged," which significantly lessens your chances of winning. I think if PD wants damage and wants to convince the manufacturers that they don't want their cars damaged, make it physical. Sure, it would be dumb to say the left-front tire is broken off and yet it's still visibly there, but it doesn't have to be a unique system to every car. There was a makeshift damage system in the past, but I think it would be a nice alternative. I don't really care about car damage in GT like you can in Codemasters racing games, so I'm not really bothered. I've been used to little or no damage for quite some time. I'm pretty forgivable, so it's not that bad.