The New King of Racers? FM4
- Thread starter JoeMaPampang
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I think I know what Digitool is saying. When I was playing GT5 I didn't use the indicator to tell me exactly what I should do according to that but you can subconsciously wind up using it to help you consistently find your own braking points. Even though it might flash "Drop to 2nd gear now" you might find yourself using it as a guide where you wait a few flashes and drop to 3rd and take a corner. Whereas there's no such thing in Forza.
Also I wished they'd allow you to customize more of what parts of the HUD to turn off or not. GT5 was , from what I remember, like ALL , HALF or NOTHING. Forza allows you to put up what you want and what you don't for the most part.
Also I wished they'd allow you to customize more of what parts of the HUD to turn off or not. GT5 was , from what I remember, like ALL , HALF or NOTHING. Forza allows you to put up what you want and what you don't for the most part.
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It's a good point you raise about what info should be onscreen etc.
I actually like the brake level indicator in GT5, since the brake pedal must be the worst for being totally disjoint to the real world, it's the one time I think something to overcome that is a good idea..
But the gear indicator is akin to the braking line in Forza (and class as an assist), it provides a consistent reference for you to judge your braking point from. In the real world, it has nothing to do with 2D/3D, all drivers use visual reference points, whether it be a bit of trackside furniture, marker board, dip in the track, any visual clue..
I don't mind any of these things, as long as you can turn them off, and crucially there is some indicator as to which you used when setting a laptime (ala Forza)..
- 14
I agree... Forza 4 graphics are good but lacks photorealism. None of Forza 4 videos that I saw, creates the illusion of reality as happens in many, many videos of GT5!
In all videos, Forza 4 always looks like... a game!
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I couldn't go back to 07 after playing 09.
As for braking indicators, I ignore them in GT5. I go by landmarks on the track, which are memorized after frequency (as done in real life), as well as by "feel", as many times you know when it "feels" right to begin your decent. Sometimes it's not always best to use technology to determine what is best. If I went by a brake indicator in Forza, I would be braking at all the wrong times as the race progressed, due to the fact that the tires are now hot, and worn. I can feel that, and I know that I need to start braking sooner/lighter (at least until I pit). Oddly enough, I have never had any noticeable heat/wear effect in braking in GT5 and I can continue to use my same brake points.
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Regarding the question of this topic:
The new king of racers?
From what I saw until now in Forza 4 videos, I can answer right now that visually Forza 4 is not the new king, but yet we have to see the most important feature, that is the physics, and in this case Turn10 will have to work very hard.
Forza 3 physics, have to be completely revolutionized for Forza 4, to get near the actual consoles Race king .
And if Forza 4 really want to be the new king, will be forced to have 2 very important things;
-day / night cycle* (which requires dynamic shadows system, like GT5)
-dynamic weather conditions (dynamic... not just sun or rain all the race)
otherwise Forza 4 would be behind other games (and Kings are never behind), and realism of driving experience will be totaly compromised.
*(and with day / night cycle I'm not talking about racing at different times of day has been confirmed, because racing at different times gives us no realism and dont even require a dynamic shadows system, like GT5)
As an example, I give you the big event that took place this weekend in Le Mans, which in GT5 is recreated in almost all its plenitude (with day / night transition and unpredictability weather), whereas in Forza 3, the LeMans 24h are a totally frustrating and unrealistic experience.
The new king of racers?
From what I saw until now in Forza 4 videos, I can answer right now that visually Forza 4 is not the new king, but yet we have to see the most important feature, that is the physics, and in this case Turn10 will have to work very hard.
Forza 3 physics, have to be completely revolutionized for Forza 4, to get near the actual consoles Race king .
And if Forza 4 really want to be the new king, will be forced to have 2 very important things;
-day / night cycle* (which requires dynamic shadows system, like GT5)
-dynamic weather conditions (dynamic... not just sun or rain all the race)
otherwise Forza 4 would be behind other games (and Kings are never behind), and realism of driving experience will be totaly compromised.
*(and with day / night cycle I'm not talking about racing at different times of day has been confirmed, because racing at different times gives us no realism and dont even require a dynamic shadows system, like GT5)
As an example, I give you the big event that took place this weekend in Le Mans, which in GT5 is recreated in almost all its plenitude (with day / night transition and unpredictability weather), whereas in Forza 3, the LeMans 24h are a totally frustrating and unrealistic experience.
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- cuco33
The 'king of racers' is just marketing PR fluff driven forward by fans and fanboiz of certain franchises. It's not different than Turn10 claiming Forza to be the definitive racers just as it's no different than PD claiming GT to be the standard.
Even though I'd stick to racing in the dry/day I'd welcome the option of night/weather stages and welcome them more if done dynamically like GT5 does. It doesn't have to be though. I hate racing at night and have never been a big fan of night stages even across all GT iterations.
GT5 can recreate a more realistic Le Mans due to the dynamic light and weather but that's about it in my book. Endurance races have multiple drivers, a penalty system, and enduros are infamous for taking out almost half of the starting grid due to damage either via crashes or pushing the car too hard (i.e. pinning the tach close to or above redline will wear the engine faster and can damage it or it's subcomponents like transmissions). We all know damage is NOT done well in GT5, and some would say not done at all. A more realistic experience would bring a penalty or damage (or both) system before introducing rain and night shifts. And if they introduce weather and dynamic time of day, I hope they also incorporate different track conditions because cars run A LOT different at night when the air is cooler than in the direct sun on a hot sunny day.
Personally the best balance would be between both Forza and GT franchise mixed with a lil bit of other racing games to have the best of the best experience. Only way to get that though is with patience as competition will push the end product to be better.
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- 14
FM3... leader of what?
Are you trying to convince us that a game in which (among several other serious flaws) when a tire rolls over the grass in full turn and nothing happens, has good physics??
I agree that GT5 and Race Pro have the best physics on consoles racing games, but you forget to mention Ferrari Challenge, that also have a more realistic physics system than Forza 3.
You dont need to be a great expert of games to understand physics. You just need to be a good driver in the real world, because if you have the hability to feel and predict the reactions of a real car, you have the hability to understand the physics of racing games!
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FM3... leader of what??
I was mentioning that FM3 overall has better physics than GT5.
Who is "us" you speak of? As for the grass in full turn? I don't know which version of Forza you play, but when I play and get grass....oh hello quick sand, lol. Car pretty much comes close to a complete stop (actually this is a poor physics response compared to reality, but helps prevent corner cutting cheaters).
I wouldn't put GT5 anywhere near Race Pro. I have not experienced Ferrari Challenge, so I can't comment on that. But in order of realism, it would be Race Pro 09, Forza 3 and GT5 IME.
Exactly, and I couldn't agree more with that comment.
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FM4 better be as good as it's getting hyped up to be....or I will be pissed!
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Well, if you want to have the ability to properly judge the physics in a given game, you need to actually compare the cars to their real life counterparts. In which case, you need to habe experience with driving the same car - preferably on the same track. And I'm talking about driving it in a similar fashion as you would in the game, at race pace.
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- 14
Yes, you are right, but the example that I gave (when a tire rolls over the grass in full turn ) applies to all models of cars, regardless of the behavior they have and in games like Live For Speed, rFactor, iRacing, Netkar Pro, GT5, etc... when a tire rolls over the grass in full turn whe are out of the race, when in Forza 3 (like many Arcade games) nothing happens!
You dont need to test this with a real car to reach the conclusion that Forza 3 is the wrong one of this group of games. You just need to drive a kart in a outdoor track to realize that.
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And you do realise that the reaction to the grass isn't the only thing that makes a physic engine, right?
I mean, in Shift 2, for example, the cars react severly to puttiing a wheel of the track, does that mean it has better physics than FM3? When AWD cars are usually oversterring a lot more than equal RWD cars?
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- cuco33
Last night I was racing GT5 trying to tame the Red Bull X1, and I just so happened to be on Cape Ring, a track I'm not sure I like or not. What I noticed is the Mario Kart hop when driving the X1, even at 170+mph, has the car FIRMLY PLANTED on the road. No hop, no launch, no jump like all other cars do. Nothing whatsoever. Maybe the game itself keeps this specific car stuck to the ground but any physics model that does such a thing isn't one to be praised as the best in console physics. It's damn good, that's for sure, just as Forza 3's is. Both have room for improvements though. I've accidentally cut the corner in Forza 3 and planted wheels on the grass, losing control just as I have in GT5. I also experienced the complete opposite in both games where nothing at all happens.
Karting's massively low center of gravity, and overall extreme lightweightness of it compared to a car, handles FAR differently than a real car does.
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You are right. English isn't my first language... sorry.
I'm not saying that dropping a wheel onto the grass during highspeed cornering doesn't affect me, because it will affect... but in the wrong way.
It seems that the grass in Forza has a Glue Effect (best form I have to describe), where nothing that is supose to happen, happens (for example: a full spin or a crash)!
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OK, I've raced karts before, for several years, starting in my teenage years.
Don't you dare compare that to that of a car, for physics... lol. Any driver with an inkling of skill also knows that not only will your vehicle react differently in different circumstances running off the track, but that by easing off the throttle and not making sudden changes in direction or speed will save you a spin, you may lose a position or a couple of them, but you don't spin wildly out of control as you fantasize.
If you've never watched a real race before I suggest you youtube some different races, not nascar, but real road racing, see what happens with cars drop tires off the track.
Everyone says that GT5 has amazing physics but, really I think its a little TOO grippy (as forza is too out of control when you start to skid) and you can't talk about physics without specifying what kind of physics.
Collisions are physics too, and if you straight face tell me that GT has amazing collision physics then a mod needs to delete your account and ban you for life.
Having a better(or one at all) collision physics system and a better surface traction physics engine would make GT5 a unanimous decision for best physics, but it lacks in important areas to brag about.
Let's just say both forza and gt need to work on better physics.
And for the record, turn off all the assists in forza before you take a full turn in the grass, THEN you will realize you can spin out. Either that or you're driving 4mph.
Don't you dare compare that to that of a car, for physics... lol. Any driver with an inkling of skill also knows that not only will your vehicle react differently in different circumstances running off the track, but that by easing off the throttle and not making sudden changes in direction or speed will save you a spin, you may lose a position or a couple of them, but you don't spin wildly out of control as you fantasize.
If you've never watched a real race before I suggest you youtube some different races, not nascar, but real road racing, see what happens with cars drop tires off the track.
Everyone says that GT5 has amazing physics but, really I think its a little TOO grippy (as forza is too out of control when you start to skid) and you can't talk about physics without specifying what kind of physics.
Collisions are physics too, and if you straight face tell me that GT has amazing collision physics then a mod needs to delete your account and ban you for life.
Having a better(or one at all) collision physics system and a better surface traction physics engine would make GT5 a unanimous decision for best physics, but it lacks in important areas to brag about.
Let's just say both forza and gt need to work on better physics.
And for the record, turn off all the assists in forza before you take a full turn in the grass, THEN you will realize you can spin out. Either that or you're driving 4mph.
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