The "Online Boost" demystified

[slicecom]

As much as we all love to hate the online rubberbanding, I think it would be boring without it. Infact lately, I find myself slowing down and letting the field pass me again just for the challenge of working my way up through the pack. It's much more satisfying than being way out infront. The only way I'd enjoy being way infront is if my laps were recorded and my best lap time during an online race was ranked and compared to everyone elses, so I could "hotlap" while being way ahead of the pack.

 

[BreakerOhio]

They should do a voting system at the pre-grid screen. As you see the room fill up, before the race starts, it can default a button / flag or some indicator saying you want boost in this match or not. Everyone should have a voice in that grid to vote for it off or on. Majority rules and when the race begins, notify the racers if boost is there or not.

Definitely, boost keeps it interesting. I don't think it goes beyond the limits to give you an advantage. The fastest driver still wins. When you spin out, boost helps to get you back in the race. But I have not see it allow boost to continue when you get back in the pack. Once back in the pack from a spin, usually boost wears out. But the negative boost is still there. When lead the pack, it doesn slow you down more than your hotlap time. If you are running up front with another car I think it impacts you less.

 

[GTP_JASE72]

I think they just need to do away with rolling starts. There would be no need for boost at all then.

Admittedly Daytona Oval is always going to be a rolling start. But that too could be sorted by bunching the pack up more

 

[Earth]

I think they just need to do away with rolling starts. There would be no need for boost at all then.

Admittedly Daytona Oval is always going to be a rolling start. But that too could be sorted by bunching the pack up more

Or they could follow real rules and make the rolling start double file

 

[GTP_JASE72]

Yeah or that. Can you tell I don't watch NASCAR

 

[Mizuki]

thats kind of dumb the person in front already has the most pressure on them, hopefuly there will be some sort of option to turn it of in the near future

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

This is a bizarre thread.

I guess I am grateful that despite playing GT5P online now for close to a month, not once have I witnessed any "boost" or any artificial or unreasonable performance degradation as many have described in this thread.

In fact, I have been in countless close races where after a couple laps the other driver makes an error, goes off track, and despite getting right back on, over the next few laps I am able to maintain my lead.... and more often the opposite is true and I make a mistake and despite recovering and racing well am not able to make much ground on the leader.

I've even purposefully allowed the lead cars to get far ahead, just to test out this so-called boost against the same drivers and was also not able to trim the gap between myself and the leader.

When I brought this up in another thread, someone suggested I race against a friend with similar abilities driving the exact same car and setup, with one of us letting the other get a full lap ahead, then see how the two cars compare, and the results gave us no confirmation that any such boost exists... certainly not anything close to what you see in arcade style driving games, and not even close to what we saw from GT3's rubber band AI.

Being a data head, and being someone who appreciates scientific approaches to testing, I have already compiled a massive amount of data on GT5P, the cars, specs, AI, performance, etc. As such, I have also run several different tests regarding "boost" as well as document countless online races, paying very close attention to the cars in the race and the gaps during the race, and if there is any kind of boost it is extremely subtle, and could be caused by many different in-game variables.

Of course this wouldn't be the first time such a myth overtook the GT community. Let us not forget the infamous "Press X cheat" which supposedly would allow you to choose your prize car in GT3 rather than it being a random selection. Just look back at the old threads on GT Planet. It was amazing how many people believed it was true, and even more amazing is that people believed it for soooo long. Heck, many game sites, like GameFaqs were even listing the "Press X 4 Prize Car" cheat as something that was real.

Can I say with 100% certainty some form of "boost" doesn't exist? No, but I also can't say with 100% certainty that it does exist.

I can say there is definitely a very strong drafting physics model. I can also say there is definitely a tire condition physics model... which is very noticeable when you go off track and then get back on (takes a little while for the tires to get "clean" and up to optimal temperature - very nice feature BTW 👍). It also appears that there is some tire wear in online racing, but not in Time Trial - making lap time comparisons between the two rather meaningless.
💡

In fact, I suspect it's a combination of tire wear and draft that many are mistaking for an artificial change in their car's performance. Most of the comments even talk about a loss in grip.

I suspect these among other things may be giving the impression that there is some kind of "boost", but I'm sorry... after running hours of tests, and observing hundreds of online races, I have found no definitive evidence any "boost", certainly nothing as significant as some have suggested.

What's more, is that despite the countless numbers of videos capturing online races in GT5P on this site, and on YouTube, I have yet seen one example that clearly shows this so called boost in action... and if it were as significant as many have suggested, it should have been very easy to show it happening.

So for all the believers out there with a video capture cards, if you can, I'd really like to see what you consider proof of this boost in action.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue enjoying online races and thankful that for me at least, and the other drivers in the races I have participated in have not seen any significant change in our car's performance based on how far ahead or behind we are in a race. 👍


EDIT: I should add though that I rarely ever race online in anything but the Pro races... so perhaps PD added some form of boost to the races geared for less experienced drivers?

 

[Threshold]

I don't think it exists either. A couple of days ago I managed to get a 1:15.200 lap time at Fuji in the F2007 race. In 1st place and on the 4th lap, and while making little mistakes in some corners.

 

[Earth]

Boost is definitly there.

I can run 2'01s by myself in 750pp time trial, but in the 750pp race I've never managed a lap faster then 2'07

When there was 700pp Suzuka I could only run 2'10s by myself, but after sitting on the sand and waiting for the leader to get nearly a lap ahead I rejoined and ran a 2'04.

Lap times also very depending on how many cars are in the race, another evidence of boost.

Boost exists, it's just not that noticeable in close racing. but the further you get apart the effect becomes clear. I become fearful when I get a 5 second lead because it means your car lacks very little grip. I like others find myself spinning in the lead or overshooting corners because the leader loses grip because of the rubberband boost

 

[Vaxen]

Try turning on TCS and you'll see the boost in action.

When behind, TCS won't kick in as aggressively, not because it's not working, but because you have more grip so it doesn't cut the throttle as much. It's not extreme, which makes this form of measurement less empirical than I'd like, but I think it's a bit better than purely anecdotal data.

 

[kart.no.38]

The Boost is there.

In an F1 race I tuned the car to hit the rev limiter half way down the straight at Fuji. I gave the leaders a full straights worth of gap and then went on to try and catch them. During the process of catching them not once did I hit the rev limiter and I got massive top speed (345km/h). As soon as I got in front of them though the limiter started kicking in. It was beyond obvious.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

The Boost is there.

In an F1 race I tuned the car to hit the rev limiter half way down the straight at Fuji. I gave the leaders a full straights worth of gap and then went on to try and catch them. During the process of catching them not once did I hit the rev limiter and I got massive top speed (345km/h). As soon as I got in front of them though the limiter started kicking in. It was beyond obvious.

Then why hasn't anyone managed to capture what you describe on video... especially if it's "beyond obvious"?

BTW: That's never happened to me in any of the F2007 races I've been in.

So far all I have read in this thread is just anecdotal evidence, and it seems it mysteriously only effects some people and not others... which is either more evidence that either it is something else, or that what ever it is, it's indeed subtle.

 

[kart.no.38]

I will capture it tonight then.

When I say beyond obvious, I mean from my perspective.

 

[unimental]

So far all I have read in this thread is just anecdotal evidence, and it seems it mysteriously only effects some people and not others... which is either more evidence that either it is something else, or that what ever it is, it's indeed subtle.

There's absolutely nothing anecdotal about mysteriously losing multiple seconds from laptimes.

The impact of the "online boost" is dependent on three factors:

1) The number of cars in the field
2) The distance on track between the leader and the car in last place
3) The skill level of the driver

I'm both a fairly decent hot-lapper and racer, and put down very consistent times in the cars which I take on the track. If I'm able to run a car in practice mode at a constant 2:04 pace (multiple laps in a row), for example, there's no reason I shouldn't expect to hit those times with clean laps in a race when leading and not in a drafting situation. Putting down 2:07's or higher with well-driven laps makes no sense, yet that is exactly what I and many others have experienced with great frequency online @ Suzuka. What makes even less sense is that if you park the car and give the field nearly a lap's head-start, THEN you can nail those same practice times.

 

[zodicus]

I've run a best of 2.16 something in the viper at szuzuka 600 but the other night I went retarded and spun a few times on the first lap and got way behind. On lap 3 I turned a 2.12 thats 4sec faster Id call that beyond obvious. lol

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

I'm both a fairly decent hot-lapper and racer, and put down very consistent times in the cars which I take on the track. If I'm able to run a car in practice mode at a constant 2:04 pace (multiple laps in a row), for example, there's no reason I shouldn't expect to hit those times with clean laps in a race when leading and not in a drafting situation. Putting down 2:07's or higher with well-driven laps makes no sense, yet that is exactly what I and many others have experienced with great frequency online @ Suzuka. What makes even less sense is that if you park the car and give the field nearly a lap's head-start, THEN you can nail those same practice times.

I also can do consistent laps at 2.04. in free run I can do first split consistent at 54.xx/55.xx. but in lead in online race I rarely get under 57.xx. there is absolutely an penelty system

 

[BreakerOhio]

I go online because I want a heated battle. I want a good race.
When racing with random strangers...there are going to be different levels of drivers out there.
I see this as a concern for racing. What will PD do to counter this?
They introduce boost to keep the racing spirit alive out there. They implemented it in such a way...The positive boost puts you back in the pack, but I don't think it goes beyond that. The negative boost slow you down when you are dominating the crowd of racers by large distance .... I think it's very controlled and doesn't hurt you or give you an advantage. You will place where you belong in that race based on your commitment to drive consistently and drive well. That's what I see racing with other drivers is about. About determining the better driver out there.

I share this thought to help rethink and accept it for what it is. Online racing is not time trials. There's a mode for that if you desire to measure your times.
If you are a faster driver, you will finish as the faster driver. I don't think it matters much in online racing what my time is to me. I get that from doing time trials where it's consistent. I take online racing for the aspect of battling it out side by side with another driver, not about my times.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

There's absolutely nothing anecdotal about mysteriously losing multiple seconds from laptimes.

I respect your opinion, but I think you my not understand what anecdotal means. It doesn't mean false observations, it means it's only individual observations rather than a controlled test where each possible variable is accounted for, and the results can be replicated by anyone under the same conditions... and not just expressed.

Anecdotal:

refers to evidence based on reports of specific individual cases rather than controlled, clinical studies.

BTW: Comparing hot laps in practice to lap times in a race is in itself flawed due to the significant differences that can and do impact lap times between the two.

The fact that there are many on both sides of the fence who have different anecdotal evidence that contradicts each other suggests at the very least, if their is some kind of artificial performance adjusting algorithm built into the online racing component in GT5P, it is indeed a subtle one, and not anything like the rubber band AI in GT3 or arcade style racing games.

I share this thought to help rethink and accept it for what it is. Online racing is not time trials. There's a mode for that if you desire to measure your times.
If you are a faster driver, you will finish as the faster driver. I don't think it matters much in online racing what my time is to me. I get that from doing time trials where it's consistent. I take online racing for the aspect of battling it out side by side with another driver, not about my times.

Well said! 👍

And besides, I've been in far too many online GT5P races where the leader is able to break away from the pack, and increase his lead through out the entire race to know that if there is some kind of "boost" it can't possibly be very significant.

I suspect the reason all the hype over "boost" got started is people were comparing their time trial and practice lap times with actual race lap times, bu not taking in account all the different variables, like drafting, contact, less than ideal racing lines, possible tire wear, etc.

 

[hornet_burnout]

There is handicap/boost. If you can't feel it, good for you. For me (and many other) it's FLAGRANT and it drives us nuts sometimes.

I race (ONLINE) in some tracks so much, almost always with the same car, that I know the exact speed to tackle each corner entry, apex and exit. To the kph.

If I'm leading I have to do it slower than normal OR I will loose grip and probably spin out.

If I'm behind, grip is above normal, and can take some corners up do 10kph (that about 6mph) FASTER than when I'm leading, without loosing grip.

Again, if you can't feel it, good for you! But it is there.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I've run a best of 2.16 something in the viper at szuzuka 600 but the other night I went retarded and spun a few times on the first lap and got way behind. On lap 3 I turned a 2.12 thats 4sec faster Id call that beyond obvious. lol

First of all, a 3% difference is hardly what I would consider "beyond obvious"... seriously. I don't know what games you've played that have real rubber band boost, but even GT3's AI "boost" was more than four times greater than that.

More importantly, again, this is just anecdotal with no proof, nor any reassurance that all possible variables were accounted for when comparing lap times.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

For the record I'd much rather spend my time defending my line against someone who's inches away from my back bumper, waiting for the slightest gap to pounce, than pulling a 10 sec lead over 3 laps.

If boost is what's required to make this happen then realism can go forth and multiply.

Once private rooms come out and I'm playing in league races then yeah - the boost can go to hell but when I'm playing public servers It's not about the glory for me - it's about the sweat and finding out just how much grace I can muster under pressure.

That said I did feel kinda smug at one point last night when I actually did finish on a 10 sec lead but that's an ego stroke - it doesn't make me a better person.

 

[hornet_burnout]

For the record I'd much rather spend my time defending my line against someone who's inches away from my back bumper, waiting for the slightest gap to pounce, than pulling a 10 sec lead over 3 laps.

If boost is what's required to make this happen then realism can go forth and multiply.

Once private rooms come out and I'm playing in league races then yeah - the boost can go to hell but when I'm playing public servers It's not about the glory for me - it's about the sweat and finding out just how much grace I can muster under pressure.

That said I did feel kinda smug at one point last night when I actually did finish on a 10 sec lead but that's an ego stroke - it doesn't make me a better person.

With that I agree 👍

But it does drive me nuts when an abnormal loss of grip sends me tripping to the beach...

 

[three03]

Been reading this for a while, and would just like to chime in real quick.

My first reaction to something like boost was bad. How could PD do something so arcade to their sim. It is indeed in the spirit of racing. Nothing worse than being tapped out of line in a heated battle, losing it into the sand, knowing the race is over. You'll never see 1st place again. This Online Boost is very subtle, and is just assuring a close race.

This is something neat I noticed, and is my point here. When I'm in first place, I can slowly watch the field catch up to me, with 2nd place slowely but surely pulling up on me. Until he get's close enough where our "Boost" matches, then I see him slowly fall away again.
Just stay focused, drive hard, learn the track, tune your car. Nothing is better than being full tilt on a track of other cars inches from you. I know.

I would ABSOLUTELY like to see an update where we can have races that has this feature DISABLED! But I can live with it for the time being. Besides it's amazing practice trying to deal with a car that changes right underneath you constantly. Makes winning the race that much better.

The boost is definately there. I can see it in my mirrors.
Let's keep this discussion up, in a civil fashion. I'm sure PD is listening.

 

[Elrisen]

The boost works this way at HSR pp600:

Lap times:
Free run: 1:13-1:14 (mostly 14's)

Race with big lead: 1:17-1:18 (free track, no traffic)

Race when far behind: 1:10-1:11 (free track, no traffic)

The end time time is also very stable: around 6:30

I've led the race from start to finish: 6:30

I''ve stopped dead at the start, waited for 25s, then resumed race, end time: 6:30

(i've also had end times down to 6:20, but mostly with small tight grids (4-5 cars)

I've also joined HSR pp750 with my pp600 car: end time 6:05 (if I dont have any accidents)

I'm very stable and run consistant laps. (it's not so hard at HSR )

I've never seen an increase in top speed though.

Best way to see it in action is to run a few races in pp600, and take note of times. Then take the same car to pp750 and see if you dont improve

 

[BreakerOhio]

If I'm in first place, I can slowly watch the field catch up to me, with 2nd place slowely but surely pulling up on me. Until he get's close enough where our "Boost" matches, then I see him slowly fall away again.
Just stay focused, drive hard, learn the track, tune your car. Nothing is better than being full tilt on a track of other cars inches from you. I know.

I would ABSOLUTELY like to see an update where we can have races that has this feature DISABLED! But I can live with it for the time being. Besides it's amazing practice trying to deal with a car that changes right underneath you constantly. Makes winning the race that much better.

The boost is definately there. I can see it in my mirrors.
Let's keep this discussion up, in a civil fashion. I'm sure PD is listening.

👍 Agree
To be really far ahead it's sometimes boring. I have already proved my point by pushing 10+ second leads in the first two laps, boost can hit me, it's not going to change the outcome. If I was capable out distancing like that very early, any boost that allows them closer will end up reducing my negative boost effect and I will distance myself again.

I'm sure PD has thought out this scenario, and this is why I'm not upset at all about the negative boost up front, it's just part of the rubberband concept.

 

[three03]

yup! Oh btw, had a blast running with you a couple nights ago man.

 

[Mr P]

The boost exists 100% in this game it's a real pisstake too, you put in a good start to the race to pull away from the crappy shunters over lap 1 and the game then decides they need to be close to you again! so its stuffs up the brakes on the leaders car and gives the shunters behind a blooming nitro equivalent to level things up

It's a total crock and the only really enjoyable races are when you have several fast civilized racers who can pull away from the garbage and swap the lead with each other in an orderly sensible way .. then the good racers can be easy 20 secs away from the chaos

 

[slicecom]

I see there is just no convincing some people. That's ok, the vast majority of us knows it exists and have seen it's impact time and time again. We can use our awareness of it to our advantage, while they're continually caught off guard by a sudden loss of power and grip.

 

[BreakerOhio]

yup! Oh btw, had a blast running with you a couple nights ago man.

ditto, I remember your Tag. Good racing.

 

[lbloom]

I'm generally against any boost or, as it is called on another forum, "rubber band effect".

I understand the philosophy behind it and why PD included it. BTW...I think it is there even though what I have seen may justly be labeled as anecdotal.

The reason why I hate it is it gives a basher crasher the chance to get back on and a second shot at ruining my race. I have seen a basher crasher attempt to take me out and I've slammed the brakes, greyed my car, and he goes through into the kitty litter. I have also seen these people put themselves into the sand. Once they end up on the beach I don't want them back in the race where they get additional chances to bash me.

So please do away with it on the update PD.