The penalty system thread

[Johnnypenso]

@RotorHed @Johnnypenso

There's no way he hit him that hard. To me it looks like lag.

EDIT: I see he hit the wall, but there was still space between praiano and the wall. Surely Praiano could've given more room, but at the same time it was an over-motivated move by the other guy.

Maybe, but I'd like to see it from the other driver's perspective before I made any definitive conclusions.

 

[praiano63]

Another point of view, just like dr_slump say , over-motivated.... !!

 

[Dan Vincent]

Not only the bump should have been penalized but he had 4 wheels over the curb as well. If that isn't a track cut I don't now what is.

Question. With a 10 second lead you find out the guy you are trying to lap is a tool. Why not just back off a few car lengths and keep an eye on your lead?

*Facepalm* You have completely missed the point of the SR rating, its not a high score to be achieved, its a system to keep like minded drivers together, keep the good and safe with each other and the rammers and dirty drivers with each other. When both have an SR of S and the dirty drivers are ruining the races for the clean drivers it is not working at all.

Well you must have the worst luck ever with matchmaking!! I’ve had VERY few bad drivers when I reached SR B and I’m now on A. Obviously your going to have a racing accident here or there but it’s 100 times better than any online racing game I’ve ever played!

 

[timekiller001]

Another point of view, just like dr_slump say , over-motivated.... !!

To be fair, when he decided he's going for it, the door was open. I'd have done the same if the car in front (you) doesn't close the door before the apex.
As I said, I'd have done the same while expecting you to see it and close the door earlier or never.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Another point of view, just like dr_slump say , over-motivated.... !!

The behaviour of the following car isn't "normal". You can clearly see at 6 secs what looks like lag of some kind as the car jerks back and forth. The way the cars react to the collision looks like lag may be involved as well. It's possible he wasn't seeing the same thing on his screen that you were.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

To be fair, when he decided he's going for it, the door was open. I'd have done the same if the car in front (you) doesn't close the door before the apex.
As I said, I'd have done the same while expecting you to see it and close the door earlier or never.

If you take and advance the video frame by frame so that you can clearly see where the cars position is in relation to each other and to also to be able to determine the racing line the cars were on at what point prior to and during the attempted overtake and contact I would have to say praiano63 was still in the clear in front of the car attempting the overtake and did not alter but maintained the racing line he as the lead car into the corner owned the rights to.

Also it was obvious that his racing line was taking him towards the apex of the approaching corner and if you stop the frame just as the following car has gotten to the rear bumper of the leading car the position of the leading car on the track it shows that the inside lane was already closing down and by the time the overtaking car were to get beside the leading car the only way there would be room on the race track was if the following car hit and bumped the leading car out of the way.

Also the leading car would have to alter his racing line to avoid contact from a line that he was clearly committed and in my opinion entitled to as he was clear of any traffic upon starting the move towards the apex and the trailing car upon continuing to advance in no way would have had a full clear lane without making contact as he continued his approach up the inside.

This one is really close and probably should just be considered a racing incident as at speed it is that close but if you are going to use the replay to assign fault in my opinion the overtaking car is the one that did not have ample clearance to complete all aspects of an overtake without contact and remain fully on the race track.

Again if this was an incident reviewed by a replay of race stewards I believe the overtaking car would have been penalized for clearing the racing lane by contact and causing the crash.

 

[AKps3]

Got kicked off track and the guy got a blue A at the end
Great system....👎

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I can't for the life of me, figure out you get 10 sec penalty when someone spins in front of you and you hit them. This happend to me twice today. I didn't have time to avoid either of them.

One went wide, I took the inside. He had plenty of room. Next thing I know, he's going across the front of my car. I hit him in his right front wheel.

The other, wrecked over to the right at bus stop chicane on Dragon. He came shooting across the track and hit me.

Both of these I got 10 sec penalties.

 

[RotorHed]

@RotorHed @Johnnypenso

There's no way he hit him that hard. To me it looks like lag.

EDIT: I see he hit the wall, but there was still space between praiano and the wall. Surely Praiano could've given more room, but at the same time it was an over-motivated move by the other guy.

I understand your point, yes a lot of things like this are racing incidents in the real world.

The thing is, PD have programmed the system to apply the racing rules to the strict definitions and so I think it decides right/wrong/don't know and simply applies the penalty/SR degrade regardless of the track outcome.

In this example, it's a corner (albeit a gentle one). The guy behind gets alongside and to the apex alongside - the guy behind has "claimed" the inside and is now entitled to a car width of room. The OP then also moves to the apex but doesn't have the right to be there by FIA rules. The guy behind goes off track to try and avoid contact but either way loses control, and contacts the OP, the strict FIA definition is that the OP moved to a place they weren't allowed to go.

I suspect that's why "light taps" still get penalized and yet in other cases seemingly much heavier contacts result in no penalty.

The more I see of the system, the more I think PD have done a good job of implementing the strict definition of the FIA rules - the problem is those rules are usually interpreted by a steward at real races while the ones we race to aren't.

 

[Diire]

Regarding the penalties. It cannot be that its possible to reduce the penalty to 0 by just driving normal to the end. This need to be patched asap. It just happened to me in the suzuka manufacturers cup and i was - really unintended - the bad guy. I was in 3rd and came out of the hairpin slightly better than the guy in 2nd place. As we came close to the spoon i was durectly behind him. I just could see the rear of his car in front of me. I should have reduce a bit of speed and brake a bit earlier, dont know why i didnt do it but anyway... as soon as p2 was braking i rammed him off track (sorry for that). I got the 10 seconds penalty and 4 laps were to go. I just raced as usual to the end and in the middle of lap 10 the penalty was down to zero... i mean... wtf?! I really try always to be fair and respectful but a lot out there are not. With such a penalty system people will never stop to use it for their advantage. Its really kind of ridiculous...

I don't understand why they don't simply implement you having to hand back the place, that seems fairer all round.

 

[ASH32]

It seems that you can cut the track at the last corner at Nurburgring and not incur a penalty.

Yep and it's worse than that at the chicane, a car a few places behind may even get a penalty for it, that happened to me, six second penalty just before I hit the brakes for the chicane and I didn't cut anything or wasn't near enough to hit anyone, meanwhile the guy who used the grass as track got nothing but gained places and a rating boost.

 

[RotorHed]

Another point of view, just like dr_slump say , over-motivated.... !!

At 0:07 the guy in the inside is overlapping your back wheels. At that point he is entitled to a car width of space.


That’s why you got the penalty under the current automated system.

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

Not sure what I should write here. Saturday I successfully reach SR A. But next I am matched with super aggresive drivers which I dont know they are purely stupid or else. This Monday my SR dropped into D.

Who gets the hits, who gets the penalty..
Edit: Now E. DR also dropped to D.

Now D-E. Was B-A. Nice job, PD.

 

[JulesDennis]

I understand your point, yes a lot of things like this are racing incidents in the real world.

The thing is, PD have programmed the system to apply the racing rules to the strict definitions and so I think it decides right/wrong/don't know and simply applies the penalty/SR degrade regardless of the track outcome.

In this example, it's a corner (albeit a gentle one). The guy behind gets alongside and to the apex alongside - the guy behind has "claimed" the inside and is now entitled to a car width of room. The OP then also moves to the apex but doesn't have the right to be there by FIA rules. The guy behind goes off track to try and avoid contact but either way loses control, and contacts the OP, the strict FIA definition is that the OP moved to a place they weren't allowed to go.

I suspect that's why "light taps" still get penalized and yet in other cases seemingly much heavier contacts result in no penalty.

The more I see of the system, the more I think PD have done a good job of implementing the strict definition of the FIA rules - the problem is those rules are usually interpreted by a steward at real races while the ones we race to aren't.

Actually it does not work that way.
I know because I got a 10 sec penalty in a similar situation,2 days ago.The guy in front lost the corner and went hard breaking and in the outside line.
I just kept the inside line that was wide open.
Then that guy decided to go hard at the inside line (I was already there).There was contact,I got sideways and off the track with a 10 sec penalty and he just went on with the race with 0 penalty.
SR and penalty system IMO is more random that anything else.

 

[Haitauer]

Here is a bug in penalty system for you. These guys finished just 2 seconds ahead of me (after i spend the race scrubbing 30+sec of penalty). Funny thing is one of them finished with 20 sec of penalty, but as i finished "running" due to all the scrubbing he got to keep his place..

 

[GTP_MacGyver]

I don't understand why they don't simply implement you having to hand back the place, that seems fairer all round.

I think a real slow down should take place within the lap in which the incident happened. If not -> Disqualification.
Would help a lot imo

 

[RotorHed]

Here is a bug in penalty system for you. These guys finished just 2 seconds ahead of me (after i spend the race scrubbing 30+sec of penalty). Funny thing is one of them finished with 20 sec of penalty, but as i finished "running" due to all the scrubbing he got to keep his place..

It’s not a bug, you didn’t finish within the time limit after the winner’s time so you got deleted from the race (effectively DNF) - the guys with penalties did finish in time so their times count.

If you notice, Finish appeared for you before you crossed the line.

I think a real slow down should take place within the lap in which the incident happened. If not -> Disqualification.
Would help a lot imo

I don’t know - I think it is interesting to have to manage the penalty time. If you’re carrying 5 secs you know you have to beat the guy behind by that much or slow down somewhere to reduce the time.

The only thing i’d like is some way of knowing who has a penalty and ideally how much so you can decide how hard to push.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

Personally, even tho I have had some penalties I don't believe I should get. I think the problem is more the drivers than the system. Everyone wants to win on lap 1. They don't have any patience, which is important in racing. On Gr. 3 races, with tire wear, they are way too aggressive. Every time, they go by me on the first lap. It' usually 3 or 4 of them. By lap 5, I'm passing them back. Normally I wouldn't mind this so much. But, they all hit you multiple times to pass you. Which lowers my SR.

 

[GTP_MacGyver]

I don’t know - I think it is interesting to have to manage the penalty time. If you’re carrying 5 secs you know you have to beat the guy behind by that much or slow down somewhere to reduce the time.

The only thing i’d like is some way of knowing who has a penalty and ideally how much so you can decide how hard to push.

The problem remains that you can get rid of the penalty by normal driving without slowing down at all. And this need to be changed / fixed asap.

 

[RotorHed]

The problem remains that you can get rid of the penalty by normal driving without slowing down at all. And this need to be changed / fixed asap.

I think this part is inaccurate - if you find your penalty is dropping through normal driving, it means you are driving slower than the game thinks you should be at that point.

Now whether you agree with the game that you are slow is a different matter - but that’s why the penalty goes down.

Try it on an oval for example where you can flat out 90% of the time. Your pen time won’t go down unless you lift a lot.

On road tracks it’s hidden because of normal sub optimal lap times.

 

[GTP_MacGyver]

I think this part is inaccurate - if you find your penalty is dropping through normal driving, it means you are driving slower than the game thinks you should be at that point.

Now whether you agree with the game that you are slow is a different matter - but that’s why the penalty goes down.

Try it on an oval for example where you can flat out 90% of the time. Your pen time won’t go down unless you lift a lot.

On road tracks it’s hidden because of normal sub optimal lap times.

This is nonsense. For sure its a bit track depending, but - sincerely - coming around with the oval-argument is a bit cheap.
I received a 10 sec penalty in round 6 of 10 at suzuka. I am DR B / SR A. I drove at the limit, and for sure not slow, finished 2nd behind @PASM. And at the end of the race, the penalty was erased - by normal, fast and clean driving.
What does it mean? That's there are existing situations and penalties, which are no penalties....

 

[RotorHed]

This is nonsense. For sure its a bit track depending, but - sincerely - coming around with the oval-argument is a bit cheap.
I received a 10 sec penalty in round 6 of 10 at suzuka. I am DR B / SR A. I drove at the limit, and for sure not slow, finished 2nd behind @PASM. And at the end of the race, the penalty was erased - by normal, fast and clean driving.
What does it mean? That's there are existing situations and penalties, which are no penalties....

As I said, whether you think you are slow is a different problem. The penalty went down because the game thinks you are slow - usually it’s apex speed that is below the game’s threshold.

The reality is that the guys who are genuinely fast have to mange their lap time to erase the penalty while slower people don’t have to do that so much.

Of course the fast guys probably don’t get penalties that much either.

 

[JulesDennis]

This is nonsense. For sure its a bit track depending, but - sincerely - coming around with the oval-argument is a bit cheap.
I received a 10 sec penalty in round 6 of 10 at suzuka. I am DR B / SR A. I drove at the limit, and for sure not slow, finished 2nd behind @PASM. And at the end of the race, the penalty was erased - by normal, fast and clean driving.
What does it mean? That's there are existing situations and penalties, which are no penalties....

Actually even in the oval you can "eat" the penalty going "flat out".Example the last corner before the start/finish line in yesterday's Cup Nation.You can go as fast as you want but because you need to "slow down" -if you want to make that turn, the game starts erasing the penalty.If you have a 5 sec or less in that track,you have 0 penalty after one-two laps because of that corner alone.

 

[GTP_MacGyver]

As I said, whether you think you are slow is a different problem. The penalty went down because the game thinks you are slow - usually it’s apex speed that is below the game’s threshold.

The reality is that the guys who are genuinely fast have to mange their lap time to erase the penalty while slower people don’t have to do that so much.

Of course the fast guys probably don’t get penalties that much either.

I consider myself as fast. Not an alien, but fast. And again, i drove the **** out of suzuka. Fast and Clean. And i did not loose time due to the penalty. This is a fact. There is / was nothing at all to manage. And even if a lack of skill would be the reason... that would make it even worse. A penalty system should not work like this. Thats it. Not more, not less.

 

[praiano63]

The behaviour of the following car isn't "normal". You can clearly see at 6 secs what looks like lag of some kind as the car jerks back and forth. The way the cars react to the collision looks like lag may be involved as well. It's possible he wasn't seeing the same thing on his screen that you were.

Yes , perhaps lagging but if not ,already wanting to force a way in the grass , knowing he was going to slam me very hard. The point is not the move by itself, but why do i take 9 seconds penalty and nothing to him.
Penalties to be out of the road are not fair.

At 0:07 the guy in the inside is overlapping your back wheels. At that point he is entitled to a car width of space.


That’s why you got the penalty under the current automated system.

Sorry but not taking a line that pas throughthe grass inside the kerb. Lag or not. Anyway, i did a fantastic race yesterday running after the best drivers in americas and i can tell you this compense 100 bad races like this.

 

[FerrellJ]

Got kicked off track and the guy got a blue A at the end
Great system....👎

I think the biggest deficiency of the system right now is that there is no accounting for severity- if you lightly bump doors through a turn, it's the same as straight up punting someone of the track and ruining their race.

Same thing happened to me this weekend.

 

[Generatesparx]

New here, and I thought I would throw in my 2 cents from a Junior- Mid level racer. I have to agree that there are some areas that need adjustments, one is Lag. I have had multiple instances where I was passing a car on a straight that was clearly having network issues, the car glitched right in front of me while I was at full tilt, I ended up with a penalty and a reduced SR. I am by no means a great driver and I make plenty mistakes, mostly getting in the way being to hard on the brakes learning to get out of the way before hitting the brakes hard. I do take strides in trying to keep the race as clean as I can. So as a mid level racer that is trying to slowly work my way up the ranks and get better its very frustrating to get heavy penalties or drops in SR due to glitching. Overall the online experience with the matching has been a HUGE breath of fresh air, I rarely run into drivers that race with the intent to spoil the race.

 

[Haitauer]

Here is a wonderful example of penalty system PDI should fix. Just stay clear of that outside line - just tbone a guy from inside. You probably end up with better position and the same penalty.

From this situation I got a 10sec penalty + red sr even without other insidents - for being stupid I guess.. Tried to leave space to avoid crashes - FAILED. Didn't count for the third car..

 

[Twstcrv]

I started in this game thinking the sr rating was its best feature. I set out to increase my sr above all else, sometimes purposely going to the back to do so. My first FIA race was fine, placed third mostly because there was a huge gap between second, me, and fourth so no contact. The second FIA was a disaster, me qualifying near the back because of blockers, and then being blocked, brake checked, and run off the track by back of the pack rammers during the race. I still have faith in the sr system but getting penalized for being hit by rammers has to be fixed.
I am actively looking to build a friends list of like minded conscientious drivers trying to maintain high sr. Friend twstcrv if interested.

 

[jesQuick]

Im in SR A now but only because I've tanked my DR to get my SR up.
It's next to impossible to climb in SR (and DR) in SR C/B bracket due to rammers and dive bombers. You have zero chance to race clean if you qualli in the mid or back of the pack.
Even though you do everything you can to stay out of trouble. There're always a late breaking tool who will try to pass you at all costs. And that's even when fighting for a low place... smh