UKMikey
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Nah, just rampant authoritarianism. Problem?Hitler was also an artist, and a vegetarian. I guess these things are bad, too...
The Political Satire/Meme Thread
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Scaff
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Oh look, false equivalenceHitler was also an artist, and a vegetarian. I guess these things are bad, too...
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Hitler Ate SugarHitler was also an artist, and a vegetarian. I guess these things are bad, too...
The Very First Line
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- TexRex72
So yeah, the substantive bit there wasn't "Hitler also...", it was what it means to be a patriot.
I'd never purport to be a patriot, primarily because those who purport to be patriots tend to be mere caricatures of patriots. I'd be okay with being called a patriot if I'd accomplished something appropriate of such a label, but I'd be inclined to add something to the label. If I'm a patriot, I'm a critical patriot. I love my country, but I don't love everything about it. I want my country to be better.
I'm compelled to add that I'm not proud to be an American. I just am. I can't imagine being anything else even if I've never been closer than I am at present to wanting to be something else, but I think it's odd to be proud of a state of being. I'm not proud to be white, male or straight*...I just am. I'm proud of my accomplishments, and being American just isn't one of them.
*As for "gay pride," I tend to think the pride is in being it fully in the face of opposition in society, particularly when an effort can be made to conceal it from society.
I'd never purport to be a patriot, primarily because those who purport to be patriots tend to be mere caricatures of patriots. I'd be okay with being called a patriot if I'd accomplished something appropriate of such a label, but I'd be inclined to add something to the label. If I'm a patriot, I'm a critical patriot. I love my country, but I don't love everything about it. I want my country to be better.
I'm compelled to add that I'm not proud to be an American. I just am. I can't imagine being anything else even if I've never been closer than I am at present to wanting to be something else, but I think it's odd to be proud of a state of being. I'm not proud to be white, male or straight*...I just am. I'm proud of my accomplishments, and being American just isn't one of them.
*As for "gay pride," I tend to think the pride is in being it fully in the face of opposition in society, particularly when an effort can be made to conceal it from society.
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The gift that keeps giving.
Laura Ingraham Mocks Fact-Checkers for Proving Her Wrong
Claiming the outdated, out-of-context photos were merely “mismarked,” Ingraham said fact-checkers were just attacking her to “distract” from Biden’s failures.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. Reductio ad Hitlerum, or Playing the Hitler card. To say that X is bad simply because Hitler liked/practised X is just absurd. We all know that Hitler was bad not because of vegetarianism, drawing, or patriotism. None of these things alone make you a Nazi. Or as bad as a Nazi.
Why'd you decide that patriotic people would necessarily support an authoritarian government?
Well, that's a mistake to think that I would be a puppet of that old leftist who continues to flood my country with immigrants and fails to defend the Russian people even in their own country, not to mention the others.
UKMikey
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The person in the example I quoted is one of a subset of people who openly support an authoritarian government. This is made obvious by his mode of attire. To say that it's because Hitler did it too is missing the point... by a lot.
If someone does something harmless that Hitler also did then it isn't fair to compare them to the Nazis. If they emulate his worst excesses, like wrapping hatred of protected minority groups in a flag, demonising the media for doing their job or attempting a putsch, then the comparison's not only worth mentioning, but becomes inevitable.
Why'd you decide that defending them is a hill you wish to die on? Playing the "playing the X card" card's not a great look.
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- Simcoeace
I was curious about this statement. From what I understand Russia has a dramatically declining "native" population. This is similar to many other developed countries, although possibly more extreme than most.
Russia Expected to Lose 32 Million People by 2050
Russia faces a serious decline in population over the next few decades. What are the causes and what are the solutions?
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...I thought all those extra straws were a 'clever' nod to their need for strawman arguments?Plastic straws aren't great for the environment. They're potentially even worse if they're tossed haphazardly and end up in wildlife habitat. They're there to own the libs. Everything is to own he libs.
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I thought Hitler's worst excesses were different. Like, establishing a totalitarian regime, labeling whole nations as "subhumans", setting the fire of a world war, committing countless war crimes on the occupied lands, extermination of certain groups of people in massive numbers (with Holocaust being the most known, but just one of the cases) and so on. Things you've mentioned are kids' pranks compared to that. Not to mention that the government the pro-Trump protestors allegedly attempted to putsch is also responsible for many putsches (and putsch attempts) around the world. Oh, and demonising the media for doing their job doesn't seem unique to right-wing people - it's just some other media.
Seems like you got it all wrong.
If it's those stereotypic MAGA-hat-wearing, Trump-voting patriotic Americans opposing the gun control and vaccination we're talking about, these aren't the kind of people I'd wish to defend and be allied with. But.
First, it's just my sense of justice. Even if it's a group of people I don't always agree with, I don't like the idea of demonising them without a sufficient reason.
And second, comparing those people to Nazis, one of the most terrible political forces (if not the most) of the modern history, is just ridiculous and disrespectful to the actual victims of Nazi crimes. I already explained above why.
Exactly. While the native population is decreasing, the government is displacing us by importing more and more immigrants from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and other poor ex-Soviet -stans instead of creating jobs and improving the living standards of the local people. Because accepting migrants is easier and cheaper, even if it leads to increased corruption and crime rates. Recently, Putin personally signed an order to halt the deportation of illegal immigrants using the COVID as an excuse (but if course it won't stop more migrants from coming in). Russia has too loose immigration policy and it's one of the reasons why my level of approval for this government is going down.I was curious about this statement. From what I understand Russia has a dramatically declining "native" population. This is similar to many other developed countries, although possibly more extreme than most.
Russia Expected to Lose 32 Million People by 2050
Russia faces a serious decline in population over the next few decades. What are the causes and what are the solutions?www.thoughtco.com
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For you personally, what would be "sufficient reason"?
UKMikey
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But. Here you are continuing to defend the very same MAGA hat wearer in the example I quoted. I don't see how I got that wrong. I don't think attempting to overthrow a democratically elected government is a kids' prank either. Neither is legislating to make it more difficult for your opponents to vote. And any equivalence between fact checking "other" media (when it deliberately and provably spreads misinformation) and blanket declaring the majority of news outlets as fake (without proof) doesn't really add up.
As for disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust and other Nazi atrocities, I'd say that actively denying the Holocaust ever happened is quite a bit worse by comparison. It's a little harder to "both sides" this one when people who are doing this are actively being courted by one particular political party.
Precisely. How far do you have to go down the path of explicit authoritarianism before you can be compared to the authoritarians? Do they have to start goose stepping, speaking German and shaving the sides of their moustaches first? I suppose even if they're pretend Nazis like the Proud Boys they're still allowed the benefit of the doubt.
By some people.
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- Simcoeace
Hitler didn't invent the idea of demonizing foreigners, immigrants, other races, ethnics groups, religions - that has been around throughout recorded human history. And blaming "the other" for political gain is the oldest trick in the political playbook. Perhaps Trump's actions aren't anything like the Hitler of 1940 or 1945 ... they are more similar to the Hitler of 1932. Having experienced the slide down the slippery slope of fascism in the 1930's, a slope which culminated in a catastrophic global war, it makes sense to call out the intolerance of racism & nationalism whenever it rears its ugly face.
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