The Sound Update Thread (The Return)
- Thread starter TayeezSA
- 1,178 comments
- 146,595 views
- 748
- Canada
- hypershock12
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
I think the balance between gear whine, engine sound and other noises sounds pretty good here, and the engine sound is modulated, so they are still tweaking things
If you listen to other games in comparison, like PC2 etc, they sound so dead without the road, wind, and chassis sounds - makes it feel like your floating along the road and a general disconnect with the sound and what your seeing.
If you listen to other games in comparison, like PC2 etc, they sound so dead without the road, wind, and chassis sounds - makes it feel like your floating along the road and a general disconnect with the sound and what your seeing.
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- 592
- Spain
- Freeman_Cruz
As they have achieved a fairly decent sound for the engines in charge, rolling, the transmission and so on, now they should focus their efforts on the position of sound, especially when calculating reverberations.
It is very rare that in the circuit of Tokyo the cars circulate between closed walls and by several tunnels and we can not hear the echo.
I think that is an aspect that would be much more evident than any other small approximation to the reality of transmission whine.
It is very rare that in the circuit of Tokyo the cars circulate between closed walls and by several tunnels and we can not hear the echo.
I think that is an aspect that would be much more evident than any other small approximation to the reality of transmission whine.
- 8,713
This is definitely an area that games need to work on in general. There are a lot of cool things you can do already, with a bit of intensive pre-processing and some relatively basic (if ingenious) run-time algorithms. It just requires choosing your specific set of compromises.
- 2,534
- Johannesburg
- Tayeedz1
You've hit the nail on the head here.
- 1,393
- Tennessee
- tnfedexman
Delete. Wrong thread
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- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
As posted already by our member @queleuleu in the trailer thread. This specific video show changes in sound. (Inbefore it gets taken down)
Firstly we have the wobble during every gear changing (still that annoying whine) and it gives it a more realistic sounding.
Second off: tire scrubbing (FINALLY) sounds less annoying and more believable.
Third off: There is some slight updates in the shadow pointed out by another member @cutmeamango
Lastly: Enjoy the video
I am very much pleased with the sounds upgrades and hopefull that they will reach that realism factor with it.
👍
Firstly we have the wobble during every gear changing (still that annoying whine) and it gives it a more realistic sounding.
Second off: tire scrubbing (FINALLY) sounds less annoying and more believable.
Third off: There is some slight updates in the shadow pointed out by another member @cutmeamango
Lastly: Enjoy the video
I am very much pleased with the sounds upgrades and hopefull that they will reach that realism factor with it.
👍
- 16,109
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
As posted already by our member @queleuleu in the trailer thread. This specific video show changes in sound. (Inbefore it gets taken down)
Firstly we have the wobble during every gear changing (still that annoying whine) and it gives it a more realistic sounding.
Second off: tire scrubbing (FINALLY) sounds less annoying and more believable.
Third off: There is some slight updates in the shadow pointed out by another member @cutmeamango
Lastly: Enjoy the video
I am very much pleased with the sounds upgrades and hopefull that they will reach that realism factor with it.
Sounds get better everyday. It feels much less sedate in the cabin now, the backfires are awesome and the intensity of the sound from the 3rd person camera is fantastic.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
The sound in third person view is just awful to my ears. It sounds incredibly synthetic and detached, almost like it's sound that's been dubbed in rather than a natural sound emanating from a racing car. Synthetic is the first word that comes to mind when I hear this latest sound sample.
Yeah, I agree. The sound is good to my ears, but it's dry, in your face, and doesn't necessarily feel like it's coming from the actual car. If the exhaust sounded like it was filling the space (race track) with reverb and other things, then it wouldn't sound so artificial and detached from the car.
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- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
I can pretty much agree with this statement but to be honest, the BMW M6 GT3 aint the best sounding car out there so I would not lable it as synthetic but more like a dead monotoness sound with absolutely no reverb (Heck even PC2 has a reverb effect in the third person on the M6 GT3).
RIGHT! This is what is missing the space and environment filling up with with resonant of the sound from the exhaust. This is clearly what every loud car misses like the ferrari 458 GT3 or the vantage GT3 (Have you seen how loud this thing is!!) it sounds completely dry and there is no resonance/echo effect on the side walls giving it a loud enjoyable reverb sound to it (Forza 5 and 6 demonstrates this).
Even when running in the tunnel this is still lacking!
And like I said in a few earlier post the volume does not increase when the RPM goes higher it sounds stuck and very unpleasing, this takes away the realistic factor from me (Test it on any car you have and you will notice by every increase on the RPM the engine volume gets louder and not the mention the exhaust muffler on the back).
On the other hand I hope they work and improve on how the doppler effect (flyby sound) is presented by a car passing.
I Believe the only racing game sim who manages the capture an accurate doppler effect is R3E.
But despite all this the sound improvement is getting better but still lacks behind its other competitors in how it represented. Nonetheless I am pleased to hear GTS sound improvents.
- 8,713
I think a lot of the lack of impact in the external shots is due to PD reverting to more traditional methods of mixing and synthesis, the very thing I hoped wouldn't happen in the face of all the complaints.
Theoretically, recordings should reflect the differences in "volume" across the rev-range, to a point. But sample sets are usually balanced (normalised) for volume, so any loudness differences that make it into a game will usually be "scripted" in somehow, and therefore steamroller any nuance in the original source.
I like direct synthesis for this because it does all sorts of unexpected (emergent) things, but it can be harder to control. We are really sensitive to it, as well - I recently found a cool shortcut method to use less processing power in the generation step for my synths, but small variations (errors) in phase resulted in interference that caused a kind of "pulsing" effect as the rpm changed. It was only minor in absolute terms, but really ruined the effect perceptually.
It can do, it really depends, and it varies. It's certainly not a simple relationship - it's the sound power we should be talking about, anyway, which is really quite misleading in a lot of ways, because it has no real perceptual basis.
Theoretically, recordings should reflect the differences in "volume" across the rev-range, to a point. But sample sets are usually balanced (normalised) for volume, so any loudness differences that make it into a game will usually be "scripted" in somehow, and therefore steamroller any nuance in the original source.
I like direct synthesis for this because it does all sorts of unexpected (emergent) things, but it can be harder to control. We are really sensitive to it, as well - I recently found a cool shortcut method to use less processing power in the generation step for my synths, but small variations (errors) in phase resulted in interference that caused a kind of "pulsing" effect as the rpm changed. It was only minor in absolute terms, but really ruined the effect perceptually.
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
We all know that sound has gotten a pretty massive overhaul in comparison to the old GT titles (and that they are using three different methods to record sound) but lacks a bit behind competition such as Forza, Project Cars (2), Asseto Corsa and most importantly R3E.
The sound effect such as backfires, pops and gurgles are all their as we wished back in the GT6 days according to their "sound getting improved" comment.
Now @Griffith500 can explain in much more detail the sound method PD is clearly exploring with. An AES system which can do lots of goodies.
In the latest build we can also hear shifting sound sounding much more realistic compared to the BETA.
However there is one thing PD lacks with its current sound build: The "brutality"/agression and the freedom of the engine/exhaust note resonating.
There have been many videos showing evidence that (while sound have improved drastically) the sound still gives hint of being synthetic, dry, sterile and muffled.
And I believe where this is perfectly showed is in the third person cam and the replay mode.
Speaking of which the doppler effect/fly by sound (which PD was praised for) has been lacking in several ways IMO the way the car passes by the cam and indicating just a slight echo around with its surrounding then rapidly vanishing, is not enough for how a car in real life coming in at a high speed passes you by while leaving the entire area echo-ing and being miles away you can still hear it slowly vanishing but just loud enough for you to hear (not to mention if the area is narrow with walls on the side).
Also while having variation of engines such as V8, V10, V12 etcetera, all these have a pretty "major tone" that reacts with the whole environment surrounding it.
Enough of me blabbing, there is a video I stumbled accross on youtube which shows what I believe is missing in the sound mixing. (IMO)
NOTE: the video is heavily distorted and base boosted for viewers with headphones so be warned!
This is not exactly how I picture it would be but gives a fairly good example of what is missing in the sound department In my opinion again ofcourse (to each their own).
The sound effect such as backfires, pops and gurgles are all their as we wished back in the GT6 days according to their "sound getting improved" comment.
Now @Griffith500 can explain in much more detail the sound method PD is clearly exploring with. An AES system which can do lots of goodies.
In the latest build we can also hear shifting sound sounding much more realistic compared to the BETA.
However there is one thing PD lacks with its current sound build: The "brutality"/agression and the freedom of the engine/exhaust note resonating.
There have been many videos showing evidence that (while sound have improved drastically) the sound still gives hint of being synthetic, dry, sterile and muffled.
And I believe where this is perfectly showed is in the third person cam and the replay mode.
Speaking of which the doppler effect/fly by sound (which PD was praised for) has been lacking in several ways IMO the way the car passes by the cam and indicating just a slight echo around with its surrounding then rapidly vanishing, is not enough for how a car in real life coming in at a high speed passes you by while leaving the entire area echo-ing and being miles away you can still hear it slowly vanishing but just loud enough for you to hear (not to mention if the area is narrow with walls on the side).
Also while having variation of engines such as V8, V10, V12 etcetera, all these have a pretty "major tone" that reacts with the whole environment surrounding it.
Enough of me blabbing, there is a video I stumbled accross on youtube which shows what I believe is missing in the sound mixing. (IMO)
NOTE: the video is heavily distorted and base boosted for viewers with headphones so be warned!
This is not exactly how I picture it would be but gives a fairly good example of what is missing in the sound department In my opinion again ofcourse (to each their own).
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Just need more reverb that's all, remeber when they record the sounds it's close mic'ed and very dry
Seeing as they use HDR technique to capture environment lighting. Not hard to do the same with sound/reverb, using convultion techniques from Pro audio side
Then you could have the exact reverb of each track as near accurate to real life in each part of the track
Even the interior GT Sport sound scape is a bit too dry compared to real life
Seeing as they use HDR technique to capture environment lighting. Not hard to do the same with sound/reverb, using convultion techniques from Pro audio side
Then you could have the exact reverb of each track as near accurate to real life in each part of the track
Even the interior GT Sport sound scape is a bit too dry compared to real life
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
Right and this really kills the immersion and "real factor" as I like to call it especially when going into tunnels and the total lack of reverb/resonance of the sound.
The following video shows a Mclaren 650s entering a tunnel vs the leaked video showing the mclaren 650s passing through the tunnels of Tokyo Expressway creating absolutely no reverb or sound bouncing echoing in the tunnel.
Skip to 2:20 for the Mclaren Footage.
I really hope they will fix this lack of reverb atleast in the tunnels given the chase cam already sounds nice but lacking many reverbs. 👍👎
- 8,713
We keep hearing changes in the sound as each new demonstration, trailer or what have you emerges.
Perhaps the reverb implementation they eventually choose is dependent on other processing loads for other tasks, and so is not finalised / omitted entirely. A simple switchable algorithmic approach, like they've had until now (except not yet present in Sport), would suffice. I personally wish for something a little more adaptive and expressive.
EDIT: Kaz said "sound simulator"
Perhaps the reverb implementation they eventually choose is dependent on other processing loads for other tasks, and so is not finalised / omitted entirely. A simple switchable algorithmic approach, like they've had until now (except not yet present in Sport), would suffice. I personally wish for something a little more adaptive and expressive.
EDIT: Kaz said "sound simulator"
As posted already by our member @queleuleu in the trailer thread. This specific video show changes in sound. (Inbefore it gets taken down)
Firstly we have the wobble during every gear changing (still that annoying whine) and it gives it a more realistic sounding.
Second off: tire scrubbing (FINALLY) sounds less annoying and more believable.
Third off: There is some slight updates in the shadow pointed out by another member @cutmeamango
Lastly: Enjoy the video
I am very much pleased with the sounds upgrades and hopefull that they will reach that realism factor with it.
That's a major improvement over previous installment. It still have that high pitch whine at times but it's much better.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Off-topic ish but love your contribution to this thread. Shout out to the GOAT @Griffith500 as well.
- 2,227
- Bács-Kiskun
- 8,713
The entire video has dubbed portions, some of which I recognise from the first Mercedes VGT trailer. The engine sounds are a mix of 6 (or 12) cylinder and 8 cylinder. Even the verbal soundbites are cut and spliced; classic McLaren pretence.
On that basis, I would be surprised if those pops are in-game, especially given the way they are panned in the mix.
Thanks for that.But I agree, @CoolColJ has tirelessly sought out new evidence for years now!
Why is it that PD can make impeccable looking cars, with top notch physics, but continuously struggle with something that nearly everyone else has gotten right since the last generation (audio). Didn't they even get one of the Forza sound engineers?
It just seems like a curse at this point.
It just seems like a curse at this point.
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