The Sound Update Thread (The Return)
- Thread starter TayeezSA
- 1,178 comments
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- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
The chipmunk effect from the pitch shifting of the samples in the Mazda ruin it for me, it might not be an issue for others, but I do come from a sound engineering and music writing/mixing/masteirng background, so my ears are more attuned to hearing those artifacts
It all goes back to wether you want static samples or modelled sounds that are more interactive - the same thing happens in the music world.
GT Sport uses a hybrid approach. It could use more engine braking modelling
It all goes back to wether you want static samples or modelled sounds that are more interactive - the same thing happens in the music world.
GT Sport uses a hybrid approach. It could use more engine braking modelling
- 11,802
- Marin County
10 years ago the audio of FM or PCARS would have thrilled me, but just as I cannot stand low bit rate audio reproduction for music (it's like a subconscious revulsion) anymore, I can't stand the tired old method of messily looped samples.
/no background in sound, but detail oriented due to my chosen profession (architecture)
There are other forums and games you can indulge in if you want audiophiles to agree with you. All this daring to do this and that to present a better sound...very defensive stance. I get it, you want better audio, but there’s a fine line between something sounding realistic and something sounding right for the environment most people play these games in.
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What are we even arguing here.
If you want to argue that GTS cars reporduce sound better than 787b mod then you are completely wrong.
First of all GTS uses like 2-3 samples and stretches them to get those high revs. 787b mod uses like 7-8 samples and you can hear that every part of rev spectrum sounds differently. Unlike 787b mod i posted GTS also completely lack depth and grunt which is why most of the cars still sound like vacum cleaners despite some of the sounds being "correct"
GTS sounds despite being upgraded in latest patches still sounds NOTHING like their real world counter parts aside from tranny whine which even GT4 was rather good at reproducing (no dynamism tho)
What is more wrong is that they don't EVEN sound half as good as Pcars, Forza and many other racing sims. Hell it still sounds worse than some of the games created 20 years ago.
If you can't get engine sound right or exaust note right at any quality level then creating better "quality sound" is completely POINTLESS because it doesn't sound like it should in first place.
Like in case of SLS GT3:
which completely lacks grunt and engine sounds completely empty in GTS
Here is on other hand Pcars2, it has grunt:
forza 6, agan grunt:
raceroom aka the best sounding game out there:
GTS has THE WORST SOUNDING SLS GT3 and just about every other car there is, so i don't even get where are you coming from people saying it doesn't and you even dare to say forza/pcars sounds are bad or something.
And it isn't only about just lack of grunt either. GTS sounds are almost completely static.
Like i said before you can argue all you want about quality of samples but that talk is like talking about comparing two dishes and you arguing that dish that is burned down has to much salt in it compared to dish which at least isn't black husk.
At the end of the day one thing is important. If it sounds like real life counter part. GTS doesn't reagardless how much "quality" it has because they have ****ed up sound design or their sampling is ****.
Sorry but if source material is **** then there is nothing you can do, no amount of best hardware you can use to make it sound great.
On other hand if source material is great then even in ****** radio it will sound great and great setup could only enhance something that is already great.
Soundwork in GTS is simply almost decade in past where GT5/6 was like 20 years behind.
I spoke about GT5 era on gtplanet because i see exact same thing used here:
"GTS cars have better samples, better sound "quality"" when in fact they don't.
They use like 2-3 samples per car and they stretch those samples to infinity to hit those high revs and gives this GT plastic sound which they didn't fix in GTS. Despite claims that with GTS moved on from just reving car and recording those revs and moving to stress rev car to get actual car sounds right all their cars still sounds like their sounds are recorder without any load. Whole downshift/upshift also is completely sterile which points out that they don't have system which uses different samples to get upshift/downshifts right.
On other hand most of racing games now even those coming from small studios like PCars or asetto corsa use multiple samples recorded under load, they also record how car sounds when down****/upshift happens under different loads (which again sounds differently) and many other things PD is completely oblivios. Even modders can do that now thanks to tools like FMOD.
Here is how good sounding car should sound in game (F40 in Assetto Corsa):
aha argument: If you don't like one aspect of the game and you complain about it, don't play it !
Sorry but with my criticism i want for PD to acknowledge fact that they have **** audio, educate people that indeed it is **** and we as community should expect better of them and finally someone at PD will maybe notice it and they will finally do something about it without any ******** reasons like Kaz in one of the interviews said "sound for cars is hard to make" when literally every other game, coming even from amateurs does better job.
My criticism isn't because i want GTS look bad. I want complete oposite. I want for GTS to sound best of them all. But it can't happen if you won't speak about it.
IF people wouldn't speak about GT5/6 **** sound you wouldn't even have PD trying to do something about it in GT6 because Kaz finally noticed people are pissed off about sound.
From GT6 they had 4 years and they made GTS completely from scratch and they are still decade behind competition.
Because they are and it isn't hyperbole. IT is really hard to find ANY racing game other than GT that has such bad souding cars. GTS is literally worst sounding racing game on market right now.
If it at least sounded bad other way as in too much grunt and every car sounds like v8 at least it would be berrable because at the end of the day listening to proper v8 is joy in you ear instead of some vacum cleaner.
even latest NFS games sounds better than GTS despite being out right arcade games that doesn't even care about realism.
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- 6,911
- United Kingdom
I liked how the Mercedes-AMG GT3 sounded in the Beta. Sound promising for the future even though maybe missing some sounds currently but I think GT's sound engine (As well as everything else) has potential to scale well with better hardware and PS5 is probably not far around the corner.
PDI look to be a good position regarding sound compared to their competitors who seem quite invested in their old school sound approach so not sure how easy it will be for them to catch up and try and beat GT with next-gen sound approach.
The way it seems to me is PDI are trying to recreate the sounds while others are just trying to capture and play them back which I don't think will have as good sound quality potential.
PDI look to be a good position regarding sound compared to their competitors who seem quite invested in their old school sound approach so not sure how easy it will be for them to catch up and try and beat GT with next-gen sound approach.
The way it seems to me is PDI are trying to recreate the sounds while others are just trying to capture and play them back which I don't think will have as good sound quality potential.
It’s not on the market right now...
Besids, it’s statements like that which result in people not really taking you seriously or wanting to talk about it with you because you’re just being defensive towards people who disagree with you. It’s fine to have your opinion, and here’s mine. What I’ve heard so far sounds absolutely fine, and realistic or not, I prefer refined over raw.
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
I watched a few replays from the current demo, and the cars are really quiet on drive bys.
It's like the camera is either really far away from the cars or something, but you can hear the road noise fairly loud... strange and very obvious, like someone made a mistake in the settings when compiling the code.
This video is from a few months back but has much louder drive by audio, but the Black car later on in the vid has the similar quiet "bug"
It's like the camera is either really far away from the cars or something, but you can hear the road noise fairly loud... strange and very obvious, like someone made a mistake in the settings when compiling the code.
This video is from a few months back but has much louder drive by audio, but the Black car later on in the vid has the similar quiet "bug"
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Then how about you find me worse sounding game then... Even if you look at arcade racers you will have trouble to find worse sounding game because devs of those arcade games understand that where graphics is brain, hearth of car is the sound.
If this GT sport would come with PS2 graphics would you also wash it away as "good enough" in era where Pcars2, Forza7 etc. exist and even small italian studio like Asetto Corsa consisting of like 20-30 people can release game that looks great ?
Only thing that keeps me to GTS is physic system. Because at least on that front they seem to constantly do huge leaps from game to game often trying to compete with best. But that also becomes really muddled point since most of sim racers models hardly can be improved and difference between them mostly these days is more about subjective feeling of how car should be simulated.
I noticed the same on the recent replays. Still, we’ve no idea how these have been captured and at what audio levels. I’ll find out later on my setup I guess, but if it’s just a volume thing then that’s easy fixed.
I’m sure that the purpose of this demo is to do stress testing on servers, encourage digital downlaoders to get it down sooner rather than later to relieve strain at launch, and enable feedback to be gathered to put finishing touches to what I’m sure will result in some kind of day one patch.
I’m going to reserve judgement until it’s running on my setup that I know is calibrated reasonably well. You can only get an impression of something from YouTube videos. At home I can tune the levels, but with YouTube you get what the uploader decides.
Edit: Just whacked up the volume on my new iPad Pro on your latest video quote and it sounded pretty damn good to be honest with good stereo separation and no sync issues of note.
Edit: Just whacked up the volume on my new iPad Pro on your latest video quote and it sounded pretty damn good to be honest with good stereo separation and no sync issues of note.
- 477
- United Kingdom
I think the sound has got better judging by videos after the beta, but you're right we can't judge until the game appears.
Unless you're Perkel who seems to have decided GT Sport is the worst game ever before he's played it and appears to be on some sort of mission to convince the entire world of that.
- 518
- Draith
This is how I feel about some racing games sounds:
One thing that is missing from this demo is the dynamic range options they had in previous GT's... the dynamic range of a road car with a good muffler is very small compared to that of a race car with good air flow, you used to be able to set it to theatre mode and in some cars like the
Clearly different design decisions have been taken by the different developers... some are keen on love at first sight, some are keen on extended listening, presenting different sounds based upon the camera view and using parts of the sound to deliver feedback to the player that is usually given through forces on their body.
Here's where they clearly taped several vacuum cleaners together to simulate a V8:
One thing that is missing from this demo is the dynamic range options they had in previous GT's... the dynamic range of a road car with a good muffler is very small compared to that of a race car with good air flow, you used to be able to set it to theatre mode and in some cars like the
Clearly different design decisions have been taken by the different developers... some are keen on love at first sight, some are keen on extended listening, presenting different sounds based upon the camera view and using parts of the sound to deliver feedback to the player that is usually given through forces on their body.
Here's where they clearly taped several vacuum cleaners together to simulate a V8:
I’ve had this running now on a couple of replays. I would say that the drive-by audio feels glitched. The sound ends far too abruptly with each passing car, but then occasionally it kicks up a notch. Something easily resolved I’m sure, and the whole purpose of the demo is to get feedback like this,
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
Something is wrong with the audio in GT Sport, not sure but there is no sound scape. It sounds like you are driving in a vacuum, there is audio when a car is near but once it goes a certain distance all sounds vanish...that's impossible. Where are the ambient sounds and cars sounds reverberating off the environment, past GT's had this to some degree first noticed in Nurburgring, but this GT seems to be absent completely in these replays. It's very weird and makes the game feel flat, I mean the static background with no organic feel to them in the large foliage really breaks the immersion the visuals set up. We need a fix PD, sound scapes are missing, even the tunnel doppler effect isn't even there. Audio from cars overall is far too low, no race car is that quiet even full electric cars(formula E) make a ton of noise.
There is no NEXT-GEN technology used in GTS. IT is exact same tech everyone uses, they record samples and overlap them over themselves at various RPM ranges.
Difference is that they use LESS samples with LESS effects (like hollow reving without load, downshift/upshift at 5k rpm or 8krpm etc.) available that provide LESS actual spectrum of how car sounds at various RPM stages under load or not under load.
To make a point look at that F40 video. Even if you go from 5k rpm to something like 8k rpm you can hear that 5k rpm sounds different to 7k rpm and at 7k rpm you start to hear intake more which was subdued below 7k which gives you that difference once you hit 7k+range on f40.
They achieved this by recording multiple samples at different rev levels. But unlike GT they didn't just record 2-3 samples but they recorded something like 5-7 samples at each stage.
This is why car sounds like real thing because going from 5k rpm to 7k rpm isn't 5krpm sound sample being stretched to go to 7krpm range but 5k rpm sample fading into 7k rpm sample with very little scratching between them.
This is the reason why GT5/6 sound was total garbage GTS "fixes" that by adding probably one more sample to it in higher range rpms because GT5/6 streatched sample from something like 4krpm to something like 9k rpm in one go for some worst offenders.
Then like i said before car sounds different when it is under actual load VS hollow reving. While recording under load is difficult task to achieve since it requires actual car to actually drive on track while being recorded it gives you actually sound of car that sounds like in real life.
This is where GT5/6 massively failed because all of their sounds were recorded in closed dyno without any load. So just hollow rev.
Then there is quality of people who actually record that stuff and mix it after recording, which sadly is worst part of GT sounds. Samples they get are usually completely stripped out of any depth it has. Because i don't believe for a second that professional sound recording system can't capture grunt of a car while cheap phone microphone can. So it means this is deliberate choice in sound mixing studio in PD. Someone there is sitting there basically doing horrible job stripping samples out of depth.
While it is technically true that GT5/6 had BEST QUALITY audio, PCM multi channel surround sound for cockpit etc, like i said before even best hardware won't save you if source material is garbage. GTS follows the same logic albait they improved a bit by adding probably something like 1 more sample to overall 3-4 samples and few effects (but still way below industry standard)
This sound more like bug to me than actual sound design or lack of it. PD seems to add more stuff to sounds as time goes (though there isn't much time now).
But who knows. IT is PD, sound for them isn't priority at all.
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Holly hell i just remembered that GT5 had flanger effect in main audio constantly mixing from one side to other ALL THE TIME. I mean with cases like this i wonder if their sound design guy even knows what he is doing.
Flanger effect is effect popular in DJ circles when you use knob or electronic switch to phase (aka slightly pitch from below instead of up) for whole spectrum giving you effect of something like this:
If you have good ear you can here it constantly going from one side to the other in background on every sound in game. Effect is hardly noticeable but it is there.
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- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
*sigh* Citation required. Clearly with post like these you have absolutely no idea how sound engineering works (unless you actually work for PD).
They do not only use samples if you have read correctly the way they approach sound is in three different categories and not by using 2-5 samples as you said. At this point there is really no need to come with your "wake up people the sounds are bad" comments anymore because, you will be only seen as ranting and sharing false facts.
You mean facts like they use 2-3 samples and they streatch those samples on high rpms because they don't have recorded sample at high rpm ? SOMETHING YOU CAN CONFIRM YOURSELF
Fact like cars that DON'T have grunt when their real world counter parts do have and every other game doesn't seem to have problem with that ? SOMETHING YOU CAN CONFIRM YOURSELF
Kaz himself said in interview that they do not generate sounds anymore. In fact they stopped it doing it after GT2. Back then they used computer to generate sounds. They took some sample of a car. From GT3 they record multiple samples and play them via fading.
Which is exactly how everyone almost does it in gaming space when you want to have car sounds at various rpms.
BUT ok let us assume for a moment you are right. They have some glorious custom made technology no one knows about in industry.
This means only their technology is garbage since it can't compete with other games simplest solution that works well and is tested to work well over and over going back to GTR2 in 2006:
Yes that is game from 2006 that sounds better than GTS in 2017. IT does lack some effects modern games like Forza or Pcars achieved but still is better than GTS which sounds more clinical than it.
In that video you can even see that hollow reving and under load sounds completely different.
For driveby's I will agree GT Sport still has issues, specifically the sound doesn't resonate long enough when a car passes by. For chase cam I think sounds are decent, the biggest complaint seems to be they are a little quiet. In-car however, for me, GT Sport unquestionably has the best sound accuracy and reproduction amongst it's console rivals. They capture the soundstage exceptionally well, while most other sims reproduce what you'd expect to hear at the exhaust, but with added transmission whine.
- 477
- United Kingdom
