The Threat From China - Real or Not?

[Dennisch]

The real threat from China?

When they ban alcohol, and W3HS is still in China.

 

[W3H5]

The real threat from China?

When they ban alcohol, and W3HS is still in China.

That would be cause for concern!

 

[Zupplu]

Now where I agree that their economical importance will make that we will see them everywhere and they will become a big pressure group on governments everywhere, I disagree they will try to do this by force.

I think that the result of the terror governments in the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc... showed that this is difficult to maintain certainly big scale.
If there would be a way to propagate an ideology (not even certain that is on the agenda), it will be with economical pressure.

Ironically it seems that the "Peoples" republic is so competitive since it gives little to its people. The west is more "social" then it believes to be.

On the stealing of weapons, that is not immediately linked to using them, just showing off.

I am seriously scared of them. Did you know (this is fact my Mum and Dad lived there 4 4 years) that japanese people think they are the direct descendents of god and they are the best race? I admit, they are probably one of the prettiest asian races, but i still dont trust them. ( excluding PD, Nintendo and Sony)

 

[Joel]

And that has anything to do with China...how?

 

[a6m5]

I am seriously scared of them. Did you know (this is fact my Mum and Dad lived there 4 4 years) that japanese people think they are the direct descendents of god and they are the best race? I admit, they are probably one of the prettiest asian races, but i still dont trust them. ( excluding PD, Nintendo and Sony)

Yeah, this is completely true. I was born & raised there, so you guys know that you can trust me.

I'm not sure if god exist, and recent poll suggests that most Japanese don't even believe in existence of god, but we are pretty sure that we are his, her, or its' descendants. It was so funny because our ally during WWII, Nazis, they thought they were the bestest race. But we secretly knew that we were the bestest race and gooder than everybody else.

And to answer Noob616's question, when we have way too much spicy ramen noodles, we call it the Chinese dragon fire threat from down below. And now you know.

 

[Zupplu]

And that has anything to do with China...how?

They are both asian countries and they link because im scared of both of them

 

[Joel]

They are both asian countries and they link because im scared of both of them

Frankly, as a Canadian I'm more afraid of the United States (or losing to the Russian hockey team) than Japan.

 

[Sach]

What are people afraid they will do?

 

[CSLACR]

What are people afraid they will do?

Own us to a crippling point financially. It's not a far out concept either.

Someone correct me if I'm horribly wrong or mislead.

I am seriously scared of them. Did you know (this is fact my Mum and Dad lived there 4 4 years) that japanese people think they are the direct descendents of god and they are the best race? I admit, they are probably one of the prettiest asian races, but i still dont trust them. ( excluding PD, Nintendo and Sony)

So do many countries, what's your point?

They are both asian countries and they link because im scared of both of them

I'm used to better posts in this section of the site.

 

[Tesla]

Frankly, as a Canadian I'm more afraid of the United States (or losing to the Russian hockey team) than Japan.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong forum

 

[Vince_Fiero]

An immediate problem that is bubbling up is proposed EU and US sanctions on Iranian oil exports. These oil exports are their major source of income - oxygen vital for life, if you will. We are threatening them with slow death unless they knuckle under to our demands.

Iran, being backed by Russia and China in the UN and perhaps also militarily, is threatening to close (the Strait of Hormuz into) the Persian Gulf in retaliation for these Western sanctions. If successful, this could shut off ~40% of the world's oil supply and very conceivably precipitate something bordering on WWIII, whether hot or cold, with totally unknown consequences to most developed and developing nations on Earth.

I fear President Obama, having acquired a taste for killing people and asserting a sort of unfettered Imperial authority, may one day soon exceed his abilities and resources in the great game of Risk (i.e., world control).

2012 will be an "interesting" year.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

The issue is Europe and the US have a slowdown in economic growth (if any growth at all) the growth in the BRIC countries is keeping the petrol prices high, the message above will not make this less.

The economic issues in the West due to the strong influence of the East (lead by china) are just getting more and more clear.

It seems Europe is thrown out of the G6 now, unless they come as one economical zone, ....

Not clear if 2012 will be determining, but we are in an era of change for sure.

 

[Dotini]

It turns out that the 69 Patriot missiles impounded by Finland can now proceed to South Korea.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...ants-transit-permit-patriot-missiles-15286200

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Lizard]

I believe China is up to something with north Korea and russia as they are all starting to flex their military muscles in unison.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Found this today China warns U.S., it seems China doesn't like that Obama is moving military around and the way we've been speaking to them lately.

 

[Sach]

I believe China is up to something with north Korea and russia as they are all starting to flex their military muscles in unison.

Well, successfully mounting an organized attack against the US would essentially mean WW3 and the utter destruction of the global economy. Not in any of those countries' best interests.

 

[Lizard]

Well, successfully mounting an organized attack against the US would essentially mean WW3 and the utter destruction of the global economy. Not in any of those countries' best interests.

It is in there intrest it.
1. Means world domination is open.
2. They control England they control half the world as under the independence agreements our queen is still head of state in much of the commonwealth.
3. It spreads the communist cause.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Exactly, stranger things have been done and will go on. Big powers practice imperialism and America isn't innocent of that. China and Russia will look at it like that as well, if the U.S. can do it then why not us.

 

[Sach]

Hmm, well personally I think they'd get their 🤬 kicked if they actually tried it, but then again it might lead to something close to nuclear holocaust.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Hmm, well personally I think they'd get their 🤬 kicked if they actually tried it, but then again it might lead to something close to nuclear holocaust.

Well it depends on what kind of war we're fighting, one that afterward is nation building or a war where we go and defeat the enemy which in turn crushes them nationally and financially to a point of reform. Sort of like WWII. If we do the prior then China might easily beat us, and if we occupy them I could see the people of China getting tired of it and fighting us back.

One must remember that the Chinese are no more happy (especially the younger ones) with their government than the U.S. government is with the Chinese Government. I think a more feasable thing to do would be to create a civil war between the people and the government of china. Well I'll stop that for now, I fear that I'm sounding too much like the CIA.

 

[a6m5]

Well it depends on what kind of war we're fighting, one that afterward is nation building or a war where we go and defeat the enemy which in turn crushes them nationally and financially to a point of reform. Sort of like WWII. If we do the prior then China might easily beat us, and if we occupy them I could see the people of China getting tired of it and fighting us back.

One must remember that the Chinese are no more happy (especially the younger ones) with their government than the U.S. government is with the Chinese Government. I think a more feasable thing to do would be to create a civil war between the people and the government of china. Well I'll stop that for now, I fear that I'm sounding too much like the CIA.

From what I've seen, nationalism seems very high in China.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

From what I've seen, nationalism seems very high in China.

What part exactly? There are many over there that are mad at their government and have acted out in protest only to be quickly shut down. Especially those who have their land forcefully taken from them by the Government and only for the Republic to not relocate them but leave them with out homes. There are many Chinese that are tired of the BS they have to live with.

 

[a6m5]

What part exactly? There are many over there that are mad at their government and have acted out in protest only to be quickly shut down. Especially those who have their land forcefully taken from them by the Government and only for the Republic to not relocate them but leave them with out homes. There are many Chinese that are tired of the BS they have to live with.

My country(Japan) has one of the most sensitive relations, if not the most sensitive with China. Because of this, reading Japanese news, I can not escape the topic of China.

China is a large country, and there are land-grabs, or revolts reported, but mostly in remote areas. Creating civil war in China off of this, at least to me, would be like suggesting creating a civil war in the States fueling off of L.A. Riot, or Hurricane Katrina. Sure, so many are upset, but many times more are loyal to their country, and they have all the guns.

China isn't some developing country. If you think the Chinese people resent their government, you might be surprised by how much they resent the West.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

My country(Japan) has one of the most sensitive relations, if not the most sensitive with China. Because of this, reading Japanese news, I can not escape the topic of China.

China is a large country, and there are land-grabs, or revolts reported, but mostly in remote areas. Creating civil war in China off of this, at least to me, would be like suggesting creating a civil war in the States fueling off of L.A. Riot, or Hurricane Katrina. Sure, so many are upset, but many times more are loyal to their country, and they have all the guns.

China isn't some developing country. If you think the Chinese people resent their government, you might be surprised by how much they resent the West.

I wouldn't be surprised, if they resented us and I agree they should resent us as in our government. Our Government has done plenty to get itself hated. You've obviously misread or misunderstood. I'm saying that a Civil war could be enacted with influence from the CIA, I'm not promoting this and if you looked at my signatures you'd gain some insight on what my ideas are.

Yet you've shown me nothing that neither tells how much the Chinese love their country and how much they dislike it. There are several human's rights groups along with other groups that have documented the outright unjust harm of their people in various fashions. Also what makes you think that the Chinese people are all going to go against the Chinese, many of them today are older adults from the Tiananmen Square era and know that a fight against their government will not improve anything. China will openly attack their people and not care what other nations say, America is the opposite they do it behind the doors and in the shadows.

Also what about the wikileaks documents showing that there are still issues in China. What about the Aparthied like system going on in China? See your wrong the land grabs happen all over rural china and those remote areas you speak of are larger than that of the Urban areas. Those people in those areas seem to get treated as second class to those who live in the Urban cities.

Just to make this clear because I think you (but might be obviously wrong) have the thought I'm here to hate on China. To tell you the truth I don't care for any 1st world government because they're all corrupt.

 

[a6m5]

I wouldn't be surprised, if they resented us and I agree they should resent us as in our government. Our Government has done plenty to get itself hated. You've obviously misread or misunderstood. I'm saying that a Civil war could be enacted with influence from the CIA, I'm not promoting this and if you looked at my signatures you'd gain some insight on what my ideas are.

Yet you've shown me nothing that neither tells how much the Chinese love their country and how much they dislike it. There are several human's rights groups along with other groups that have documented the outright unjust harm of their people in various fashions. Also what makes you think that the Chinese people are all going to go against the Chinese, many of them today are older adults from the Tiananmen Square era and know that a fight against their government will not improve anything. China will openly attack their people and not care what other nations say, America is the opposite they do it behind the doors and in the shadows.

Also what about the wikileaks documents showing that there are still issues in China. What about the Aparthied like system going on in China? See your wrong the land grabs happen all over rural china and those remote areas you speak of are larger than that of the Urban areas. Those people in those areas seem to get treated as second class to those who live in the Urban cities.

Just to make this clear because I think you (but might be obviously wrong) have the thought I'm here to hate on China. To tell you the truth I don't care for any 1st world government because they're all corrupt.

I am so confused.

First of all, I haven't misread a thing. My comment in regards to L.A. Riot or Katrina is just that. Just because of big unrest in a huge nation, it is completely unrealistic to assume that powerful intelligence agency could start a civil war. My post was never about anti-this or that. I just used the U.S. as a example, because: a) it has powerful government & military, much like China. b) it had experienced major civil unrest many GTP'ers would be familiar with.

As for you asking me to prove the Chinese national pride, I am flabbergasted. Uhhhh... watch some TV, read the news? And after I suggested how impossible it would be to make Chinese fight each other, you ask me, in quote,

what makes you think that the Chinese people are all going to go against the Chinese

Yeah, I never even hinted that.

And all this intel you claim to have on large scale land grab, or uprising, I don't know what to tell you. All the story I've read over the years has taken places in villages. Villages in a country with population of over a billion. Which is why I brought up civil unrest examples from the U.S. Just because some of these things are reported every once in awhile, it doesn't automatically mean that majority of Chinese wants to overthrow their government.

Again, I couldn't care less if you are Pro-China, the opposite, or love everybody or hate everybody. I have no idea where this is coming from. I was merely stating that Chinese rather unite to fight outsiders than destroy their government. CIA can pay their people overtime, they still wouldn't stand a chance at creating a Chinese Civil War.

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

I'll tell you all what the real threat is from China, and it's not war.
Overpopulation comes to mind... but not quite.
Diet. More specifically, meat.

As their infrastructure and economy grows they are starting to enjoy a more western diet. I'm not saying the rice fields, or other great traditional dishes of the region will dry up, just their love for beef is growing.

What does this mean for the west? Well, do the math and come to your own conclusion.
It takes 11 lbs. of grain to produce one pound of beef. There is not enough land on earth to produce enough meat for us all.

I believe any issues out of China will be a direct result of the food supply, and or fossil fuels.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am so confused.

First of all, I haven't misread a thing. My comment in regards to L.A. Riot or Katrina is just that. Just because of big unrest in a huge nation, it is completely unrealistic to assume that powerful intelligence agency could start a civil war. My post was never about anti-this or that. I just used the U.S. as a example, because: a) it has powerful government & military, much like China. b) it had experienced major civil unrest many GTP'ers would be familiar with.

What are you confused about? You have to ask yourself what part of China has a great sense of nationalism and what part doesn't. It's obvious that 53% + of Rural China has an issue with the way their government decides how the farmers land should be used. Also you obviously don't know the history of the CIA that well, but okay. Libya had a large group of people for Ghadafi, that didn't stop the rebel forces from winning with U.S. covert backing and open backing. I wouldn't compare militaries of the U.S. and China, and China has vast power because of it's influence over the markets not because of military might. On paper country for country they're hardly impressive.

As for you asking me to prove the Chinese national pride, I am flabbergasted. Uhhhh... watch some TV, read the news? And after I suggested how impossible it would be to make Chinese fight each other, you ask me, in quote, Yeah, I never even hinted that.

Flabbergasted at what exactly, that someone isn't just simply following your rhetoric and wants maybe a stat or two that rectifies what your spewing.
What does me watching news tell me about Chinese nationalism? I've obviously used news sources and documentation to come to that opinion that China and it's people don't get along as you've painted. Also if given the means to reform their government to a nation more for the people and less for the government, they would easily do it.

And all this intel you claim to have on large scale land grab, or uprising, I don't know what to tell you. All the story I've read over the years has taken places in villages. Villages in a country with population of over a billion. Which is why I brought up civil unrest examples from the U.S. Just because some of these things are reported every once in awhile, it doesn't automatically mean that majority of Chinese wants to overthrow their government.

No one said overthrow, they want change and much less restriction as humans. Okay well let me show you then, Three Gorges Dam for example displaced 1.3million from villages and that is one of many big land grabs in recent years to make China and urban might against those of the West. Here is this vid and other bits of info that go against what you're saying as well. For years there has been many citizens of China against their government I don't know what stories your reading but you seem like an ostrich with your head burried in the sand when it comes to China.


China Government Censor new about Arab Spring
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/us-china-unrest-village-idUSTRE7BI0IE20111219
December revolt against power plant
More Land grabs
Protest again
villagers protest
This is some of what I've saved and found of 2011 and the vid was a quick search after remembering I watched it sometime ago.

This doesn't show the incidents that may have not made it to the news due to China censorship obviously, and this is just a few in a long list of more you can find.

 

[a6m5]

I am still confused, because you are googling like crazy, for data that proves organization like CIA could manufacture a civil war in China.

Maybe you were tired man, as this exchange took late last night(I couldn't sleep). What you are trying to prove, it can not be done by google. You must understand that. Most intelligence agencies, the pro's, I'm sure they couldn't guarantee a operation of this size.

If you honestly believe that CIA is as good as you say, or China is as fragile, by all means. I have some controversial opinions of my own. But this is a big waste of time.

 

[Lizard]

What part exactly? There are many over there that are mad at their government and have acted out in protest only to be quickly shut down. Especially those who have their land forcefully taken from them by the Government and only for the Republic to not relocate them but leave them with out homes. There are many Chinese that are tired of the BS they have to live with.

Read about stalins cult of personality and how many supported Kim Jong Il. Same thing happens in china.

 

[Crispy]

Heard this today about Russia. I felt that this should be the right place to post, since China has close ties with the Russians.

http://news.yahoo.com/who-knew/superweapons-27830486.html

100 Megaton bomb. That's the original goal set for the Tsar Bomba correct? Only they couldn't get it that powerful...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am still confused, because you are googling like crazy, for data that proves organization like CIA could manufacture a civil war in China.

You're still on that , it was a suggestion I'm not trying to sell it as if it's true, just something that I wouldn't be surprised at if the CIA tried it or thought of it before. Try to look at the point with depth and not some dry black and white meaning. I'm not trying to gather Data to prove the CIA could make this made up mission work. I'm trying to prove and said it in those post that you were wrong in thinking that those types of uprisings or incidents don't happen all the time in China.

Maybe you were tired man, as this exchange took late last night(I couldn't sleep). What you are trying to prove, it can not be done by google. You must understand that. Most intelligence agencies, the pro's, I'm sure they couldn't guarantee a operation of this size.

I'm not saying anyone could garuntee it, just saying this is something the CIA and NSA and others think about, such as Mossad and MI-5/MI-6. CIA and Mossad used stuxnet in Iran to cripple them and other incidents through history with nations show that the CIA isn't as weak as you make them out to be and would be used if not already to start the ground work on China if anything were to happen.

If you honestly believe that CIA is as good as you say, or China is as fragile, by all means. I have some controversial opinions of my own. But this is a big waste of time.

If you think it's a waste then why did you reply? I'm just saying it's not impossible for the CIA or any other groups like it to try and manufacture such a mission. It would be counter productive because of where the international economy sits and who is a major player. However, you didn't answer me on other stuff you just say "I've read the contrary" I didn't do a google search I have a lot of article over the years saved becasue I like to debate people on world diplomacy and other political issues. Sorry I'm just weird like that.