The Trump Impeachment Thread

[TexRex]

In response to my (I think rather excellent, correct, balanced and reasonable) prior post, someone asked a reasonable question, "can ours (the US) be a healthy and functioning system?", a system that accepts impeachment, trial and acquittal as reality and then moves on instead of dwelling morosely on the what-ifs and might-have-beens.

A long-term poll of the American people seems to suggest we really might have a healthy and functioning system, despite the fact some foreign nationals and domestic subgroups might be a bit less than satisfied or very satisfied.

That would be a "yes", then. And your response to the question is itself continued deflection.

An unaccredited poll of peoples 'satisfaction with their personal lives' has as much relevance in this thread as my poll below;

That dip in 2015 is surely substantive. One wonders if it can be attributed, at least in part, to Trump's escalator ride and announcement that he would make a bid for president.

/s

The first article was definitely potentially a crime, albeit a convincing case was not established for it due to lack of witnesses and evidence. Perhaps a 2nd impeachment could fix that?
The 2nd article was always a joke, something not even poor old Mitt could vote for. "Obstruction of Congress" for trying to take a subpoena to court is par for the course in Washington, DC.

Obfuscation. Only those wishing Trump not be held accountable were not convinced.

Obstruction of Congress is an actual, impeachable (obviously) offense. Congress being forced to go to court to seek enforcement of subpoenas is dependant upon commission of the offense.

During the "trail", as you say,

Deflection. The context in which the typing error occurred reveals both the error and the intended word, thereby not requiring confirmation or correction. The response that followed highlighting of the error also demonstrates knowledge of the intended word.

Typing errors and spelling errors typically go unaddressed here because pointing them out is not conducive to polite discussion.

it was the Senate's job to consider the impeachment evidence provided by the House. It fell short, end of story.

Deflection, obfuscation. A ball thrown to a receiver who chooses to run beyond the ball's apparent target doesn't fall short and blame lay on the receiver. Similarly, Senate Republicans simply were not going to be swayed from their intent to not hold Trump accountable; they made this much apparent before the ball was even thrown, with their relentless attacks on the proceedings that were aided by House Republicans. And then they openly announced as much.

The biggest problem was the House rushed its part of the process, failing to take the slightest effort to get sound witnesses and evidence. They know what they were doing with open eyes - eyes blinded by rage, fury and ******re impatience. Now they get to live with it. But wait! They can do it all over again and do it the right way - if they want to.

Deflection, obfuscation.

Do you understand the House failed to do its job?

Deflection.

But the House failed woefully in presenting sound evidence and witnesses when it was perfectly clear they could have done so. When they could have had Bolton by going to court (per precedent), they chose not to.

Deflection, obfuscation.

Ship of fools.

Deflection.

Of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, "It might have been".
John Greenleaf Whittier

Deflection.

The happiest words are, "I told you so".
Gore Vidal

Deflection.

What Bolton could have provided: Sworn, cross-examined testimony from an eye witness.

Deflection, obfuscation. Bolton testimony would have fallen on deaf ears, furrowed brows, shaking, pointed fingers and menacing words; "Bolton is bitter because he was fired! New book! DEEP STATE!!!"

 

[huskeR32]

Deflection, obfuscation. Bolton testimony would have fallen on deaf ears, furrowed brows, shaking, pointed fingers and menacing words; "Bolton is bitter because he was fired! New book! DEEP STATE!!!"

 

[TexRex]

Low-hanging fruit. But Lou Dobbs, man; that face could make a lemon pucker.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

uh-oh
Is the white house going to fire LTC Alexander Vindman?Oh say can you see

White House Weighs Ouster of Aide Who Testified Against Trump

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That's not surprising. I'm sure there will be plenty more targets for Trump.

 

[DK]

Low-hanging fruit. But Lou Dobbs, man; that face could make a lemon pucker.

He looks like he overheard someone say "OK boomer".

 

[Dotini]

Trump administration begins investigation of Hunter Biden.

WASHINGTON ― The Treasury Department has given congressional Republicans sensitive financial information related to Hunter Biden after having refused to give Democrats President Donald Trump’s tax returns.

Yahoo News first reported Thursday that the Treasury Department handed over highly confidential information in response to a November request from Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Homeland Security Committee Chairman Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) for suspicious activity reports filed with the department by financial institutions.

Last year, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin blocked a Democratic request for the president’s tax filings, saying Democrats had no legitimate legislative purpose for seeking the documents.

“The legal implications of this request could affect protections for all Americans against politically-motivated disclosures of personal tax information, regardless of which party is in power,” Mnuchin said in an April 2019 letter.

Apparently, that same standard did not apply when it came to non-tax financial information that may pertain to the son of former Vice President Joe Biden, a Trump political rival.

“The administration told House Democrats to go pound sand when their oversight authority was mandatory while voluntarily cooperating with the Senate Republicans’ sideshow at lightning speed,” Ashley Schapitl, a spokeswoman for Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), the highest-ranking Democrat on the Finance Committee, said in a statement.

Senate Republicans are investigating Hunter Biden as part of an inquiry designed to bolster Trump’s unfounded claim that Joe Biden used the vice presidency to benefit his son, who served on the board of a Ukrainian energy company while his father was involved in setting U.S. foreign policy in Eastern Europe.

The inquiry, which includes at least a half dozen records requests to various organizations and executive branch agencies, has proceeded since fall with relatively little notice. It picks up where Trump left off last summer when he asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate whether Biden had improperly recommended the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor.

In their letter seeking suspicious activity reports related to Hunter Biden and various associates, Republicans cited an internal Senate rule authorizing the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs to investigate the effectiveness of “all agencies and departments” of the federal government. Financial institutions are required to file suspicious activity reports with the Treasury Department if they reasonably suspect customer transactions may be connected to money laundering.
etc.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sena...0886fc4ed4?ncid=newsltushpmgnews&guccounter=1

 

[TexRex]

Trump administration begins investigation of Hunter Biden.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sena...0886fc4ed4?ncid=newsltushpmgnews&guccounter=1

Hey, look, something that at least resembles appropriate channels.

 

[Imari]

uh-oh
Is the white house going to fire LTC Alexander Vindman?Oh say can you see

White House Weighs Ouster of Aide Who Testified Against Trump

Hey, look, something that at least resembles appropriate channels.

Well, at least the Republicans are learning that there are whole sections of government that will fall over themselves to deal with an investigation like this, and that there's no need to involve foreign governments. You might hope that career politicians would have known that already, but I guess that just because one works for the government doesn't mean one knows how government works.

 

[Danoff]

uh-oh
Is the white house going to fire LTC Alexander Vindman?Oh say can you see

White House Weighs Ouster of Aide Who Testified Against Trump

I'd like to understand something about your character. Are you suggesting that this is appropriate, or good, or comeuppance? It seems that way. I just want to know if I have this straight.

 

[huskeR32]

Well, at least the Republicans are learning that there are whole sections of government that will fall over themselves to deal with an investigation like this, and that there's no need to involve foreign governments.

They will for the right team. Treasury was one of the biggest offenders of defying subpoenas during the impeachment proceedings. Now suddenly they're handing over any and everything they're asked for. All depends on who's asking, apparently.

 

[Danoff]

If it would not have done any good, why then are House Democrats even at this hour seeking Bolton's deposition? A 2nd impeachment attempt would be entirely justified, in my view.

Based on the new thread title (again), you seem to really like your idea of a 2nd impeachment. Did you not understand the part where Bolton's testimony changes nothing? It is quite clear that the Senate refused to convict regardless of any amount of evidence. More evidence in a 2nd impeachment would change absolutely nothing.

The Senate largely knows (and some have admitted) that Trump is guilty. Trump admitted it, all of the evidence supports it, there is no real contest on this point. The Senate refused to hear more information (at least in part) because they know. And they're fine with it.

If there is a 2nd impeachment, I would think that would be its own issue (another transgression from our President doesn't seem far fetched). It would probably be deserving of its own thread. Consider keeping this thread focused on this event, and please stop updating the title, it's confusing.

 

[TexRex]

Well, at least the Republicans are learning that there are whole sections of government that will fall over themselves to deal with an investigation like this, and that there's no need to involve foreign governments. You might hope that career politicians would have known that already, but I guess that just because one works for the government doesn't mean one knows how government works.

I mean...it doesn't seem so much like they're learning how things are meant to be done as it seems they're of the belief that conducting an actual investigation now will magically negate Trump's illegal conduct. And if there's potential to smear a political opponent, well, that's just the cherry on top.

...

Those things might actually be reversed.

 

[Danoff]

I mean...it doesn't seem so much like they're learning how things are meant to be done as it seems they're of the belief that conducting an actual investigation now will magically negate Trump's illegal conduct. And if there's potential to smear a political opponent, well, that's just the cherry on top.

...

Those things might actually be reversed.

[O].J. Simpson went home a free man Tuesday, spared by an unpredictable jury to pick up a life of privilege instead of a life in prison. Acquitted of murdering his ex-wife and her friend, he pledged to track down the real killers who are "out there somewhere."

https://journaltimes.com/news/natio...cle_20cc6047-8c0a-5304-ac3b-68b31a18e0dc.html

 

[Joey D]

This is how delusional Republicans are becoming: https://www.ksl.com/article/4671434...-romney-after-vote-to-convict-president-trump

The Republican ran government here wants the ability to recall Mitt Romney over his vote against Trump. It's apparently being done, according to Utah House Speaker Brad Wilson, R-Kaysville, as a way to "pay tribute to Trump." The man isn't a king, no one needs to pay him tribute and that's frankly some really worrying rhetoric.

 

[huskeR32]

This is how delusional Republicans are becoming: https://www.ksl.com/article/4671434...-romney-after-vote-to-convict-president-trump

The Republican ran government here wants the ability to recall Mitt Romney over his vote against Trump. It's apparently being done, according to Utah House Speaker Brad Wilson, R-Kaysville, as a way to "pay tribute to Trump." The man isn't a king, no one needs to pay him tribute and that's frankly some really worrying rhetoric.

The same people who thought Trump's actions did not warrant removal from office think that this does? The mental gymnastics continue unabated.

 

[Danoff]

The same people who thought Trump's actions did not warrant removal from office think that this does? The mental gymnastics continue unabated.

Fantastic point.

 

[TexRex]

Okay, this can't be real. Did someone go back in time and step on something they shouldn't have?

 

[Keef]

Okay, this can't be real. Did someone go back in time and step on something they shouldn't have?

They stepped on Mein Kampf and I still have a headache.

 

[NotThePrez]

This is how delusional Republicans are becoming: https://www.ksl.com/article/4671434...-romney-after-vote-to-convict-president-trump

The Republican ran government here wants the ability to recall Mitt Romney over his vote against Trump. It's apparently being done, according to Utah House Speaker Brad Wilson, R-Kaysville, as a way to "pay tribute to Trump." The man isn't a king, no one needs to pay him tribute and that's frankly some really worrying rhetoric.

Cult-like following of their leader? Check.

Complete disregard of said leaders actions when laws/professional expectations are disregarded? Check.

Blatant disregard of the opinions of their fellow citizens, as well as a disregard of their duty to them? Check.

Going after "one of their own," a fellow countryperson, because they dared call out their leader on his crap, in an attempt to hold said leader responsible for his actions, like a reasonable person would? Check.

I thought we all learned 70+ years ago how dangerous such acts can potentially be.

 

[Danoff]

The same people who thought Trump's actions did not warrant removal from office think that this does? The mental gymnastics continue unabated.

Also Vindman's removal from office.

Extorting Ukraine rises to the level of removal from office? No. Testifying before congress in response to an investigation? Yes.

 

[Dotini]

Both of the Vindman brothers have been fired and escorted off the premises.

Spoiler: Unsourced opinion and speculation on Trump

Somewhat like the ball changing possession in a football game, the administration has now gone on the offensive on a number of fronts. For instance, the FBI has over 1000 investigations under way in pursuit of Chinese technology theft, extending everywhere into American society. Even a Harvard professor has been arrested. With all his torments behind him for the moment, Trump, like an unchained monster, is set for a rampage of anger, aggression and destruction against a full range of his perceived enemies. This could make the early 50's investigation of communists pale in comparison. Taking full advantage of his cult of personality and court appointments, this reign of terror could carry through the rest of year. Using the coronavirus epidemic as justification, new government powers could be invoked to clamp down on borders, transport and who knows what that could slake his thirst for revenge. I expect he might like to place Nancy Pelosi and the City of San Francisco in quarantine.

 

[Danoff]

Sonland is gone too.

This is how the US executive operates? You cooperate under oath with the US congress and you're fired? Corrupt.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I swear if this was 100 years ago and/or a different country these people would be killed, not fired. Anyone that's "not loyal" to the President gets fired or has themselves and their reputation publicly insulted like a middle school lunchroom bully. It's ridiculous

 

[Danoff]

I swear if this was 100 years ago and/or a different country these people would be killed, not fired.

I'm waiting for the execution of the whistleblower to be announced.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I'm waiting for the execution of the whistleblower to be announced.

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they try to exile him

 

[Dotini]

Spoiler: Unsourced opinion and speculation

If the Republicans controlled 2/3 of state legislatures, or 2/3 of both the House and Senate, they could outlaw the Democratic Party or remove impeachment of a president from the constitution. Literally anything is possible if those kinds of majorities can be achieved.

Democrats need to listen to James Carville and get their act together.

 

[Joey D]

So it's getting worse with the more interviews coming out regarding Romney. Apparently, I was incorrect when I said Wilson wants to recall Romney, he merely co-sponsored the bill. Wilson wants to censure Romney. The recall bill, which changes how all Senators can be recalled in Utah, was put forth by Rep. Tim Quinn, R-Heber City. While he doesn't think it's needed right now to recall Romney, he said it "would be a nice “threat” to have on-hand." Phil Lyman, R-Blanding, had some equally concerning rhetoric too:

“If Sen. Romney continues to fight against the party that put him in office, I would say that would be a nice threat to have on the table,” Lyman said. “If you’re not going to support the people that supported you, they have the ability to recall.”

I mean Christ on Cracker, we're at the point of threatening Senators for now toeing the party line? I can't believe how asinine this is.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/2...trump-utah-recall-censure-recall-vote-convict

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Sonland is gone too.

This is how the US executive operates? You cooperate under oath with the US congress and you're fired? Corrupt.

He's been doing this since he got in the office and also on a TV show.

 

[TexRex]

I thought we all learned 70+ years ago how dangerous such acts can potentially be.

History is only worth considering when you think it helps your cause, sort of the way social conservatives will never forget Southern Dixie Democrats.