The Trump Impeachment Thread
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Dotini
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I know it's an off-topic bunny trail, but I can't resist - who really was Hitler's heir? Was it somebody or some organization set up in South America assisted by Juan Peron or Alfredo Stroessner?Apropos of nothing, always a good title for an intentionally sensationalist and misleading hook.
Dönitz was hardly Hitler's "heir".
Joey D
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Trump's road to reelection won't be super easy, but I can't see how he will lose. The Democrat party is a bit fractured right now between progressive and run-of-the-mill supporters. Those progressive supporters fully believe the fix is in again when it comes to Sanders and I can't see them really voting for Biden. They will probably either just not vote, or they will vote Green. Biden also really only appeals to the older demographic and I can't see many younger people really liking him. They too will probably either not vote or vote for a third-party candidate.
Trump needed a challenger from within the Republican ranks. I still think the average Republican doesn't like Trump, but will vote for him simply because he isn't a Democrat. A challenger from within the party would've really helped and made many Republicans think about who they wanted.
The Democrats really did this to themselves though, so if they lose then so be it. I can't see things being really any better if we replace one old, senile, alleged rapist with another old, senile, alleged rapist.
The more important thing for this election will be for people to vote for their representatives. If they really want to stop Trump, they need to make the House and the Senate both blue. Nothing will really get accomplished, but I'm OK with the government just spinning its wheels and not getting anything done.
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Göring and Goebbels.
Göring had the most de jure political power as President of the Reichstag and Prime Minister of Prussia, the largest state in the realm. He sent a telegram when Hitler was well and truly snookered in the bunker saying he would assume the duties as Executive if he received no reply, taking it as a sign of capitulation; Hitler replied denouncing him as a traitor and usurper and ordered his arrest but was captured by the Allies and committed suicide at the Nürnberg trials
Goebbels was designated Chancellor in Hitler's will and did officially hold that title for 24 hours but killed himself the day after Hitler anyway.
But we're getting quite off topic, which is my fault.
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Trump did not run unopposed. He just creamed the opposition.
He easily won on the right side because he was running against "no names".
Whether trump was known to be bad or not, his name was more "household" for simpletons to just blindly tick the box on the ballot...
He was waving his greens in front of dreamy and hopeful eyes and other desperates... What did they have to lose, but all their pride to be restored.
Is their pride restored now ? How is that been so far?
I just wish the guy can just behave for a whole month.... Just so we can feel for once what it is like to have a real leader....
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Trump did not run unopposed. He just creamed the opposition.
I think it's pretty consistent with expectations. 92% of Republicans approve of DT per recent polls. I'm not sure how realistic @Joey D idea of Trump being seriously challenged by another Republican. Trump is the Republican party...or rather I think Trump has superseded the Republican party, in some ways. The only Right-Side challlenge I can see forming in the future is either Marco Rubio cleaving off the non-libertarian, perma-hawk, evangelical coalition (aka, yay! road to militant theocracy! ) and/or Mit Romney cleaving off a moderate, good-old-days bloc. Amash could theoretically cleave off a libertarian group...but it wouldn't be big and he doesn't seem to have the charisma for it. (Well, libertarians almost by nature don't have the charisma to pull that off...but that's off topic).
The problem is that these are all semi-intellectual political avenues pursuing a rabidly anti-intellectual electorate. It won't work. Trump has basically zero vision (certainly zero intellectual interest) other than fabricating/finding, and subsequently bullying, boogeymen for his own personal advantage - but that certainly seems to resonate with conservative voters who really only seem interested in rage right now. I'd bet that the more ideological conservatives (probably more along the libertarian strain) are pretty damn annoyed that a goon like Trump has co-opted their platform (that they've been carefully building for several decades before Trump even was a Republican!) and is now wringing its neck.
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- TenEightyOne
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I can't find a link but I remember reading some linguistics research that suggested that Goebbels was a primary author of the will (or wills, given that copies were dispatched). The three beneficiaries were Goebbels (Chancellor), Doenitz (President and War Minister) and Bormann (Party Minister). Goering and Himmler (the latter now known by Hitler to be negotiating with the Allies) were out of favour and were referred to as traitors. I think it's difficult to argue that Doenitz wasn't Hitler's practical heir even if he might not be the man that Hitler would have chosen in better, winninger circumstances.
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From what I understand, and I'm not reading up to confirm this, the thread basically has it right at this point;
Given the choice, Hitler would likely have passed power to some combination of Himmler, Goebbels and Goering. Both Himmler and Goering would jump the gun and fall out of Hitler's favour before the end - both by the same means I believe, seeking to negotiate a peace with the west.
Many nazi officials were understandably concerned about the consequences of a Soviet victory in the German homeland - so much more so from the fact that the western allies seemed quite content to sit back and let the red tide do the bulk of the hard fighting, including the all-important attacks on the Seelow heights and of course Berlin.
However at the same time they had plenty to fear from Hitler, who had previously had men hanged with piano wire for such things as seeking a peace negotiation.
After Goering and Himmler fudged up - both commiting suicide after capture by the allies (the story of Goering's capture is quite entertaining - a second plane had to be found to fly him to Northern Germany as he was 300lbs + in weight), power essentially defaulted to Doenitz as he was basically the highest ranking Nazi left alive and loyal to Hitler.
Bormann also stood to gain from the transition of power - in the will he was named Hitler's most faithful servant and was trusted as executor of the will. His power had grown massively during the war. Goebbels, also present at the will signing, would have essentially headed up the government, with Bormann as party minister, the biggest chair of the bunch.
Of course, Goebbels outlived Hitler by only a few days, committing suicide with his wife. Bormann met a grisly fate, either blown up or mown down by Soviet fire whilst attempting to flee.
Doenitz, the last surviving benefactor, seemed to accept that his position as de facto leader of Germany was little more than a formality. He used the position to order German leaders to fully surrender and was trialled at Nuremberg.
So, basically, Karl Doenitz was heir to Hitler by way of a long chain of dominoes involving quite the bizarre amount of cyanide pills and luger barrels.
Joey D
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Trump did not run unopposed. He just creamed the opposition.
I know there's always someone who will run a campaign against the incumbent in their own party, but most of them aren't really serious threats. What I was talking about was someone mounting a serious campaign against Trump with political fundraisers, ads, media attention, etc. The only person I really know on that list is Bill Weld and that's only because he ran with Gary Johnson in 2016. I actually had to look up Joe Walsh to make sure it wasn't the Eagle's guitarist.
The Republicans needed someone like Ross Perot. I doubt they'd been successful, but at the very least it would've made people think. I also still believe most Republicans aren't happy with Trump since he's pretty much ruined their party. It's going to be hard to change the perception that the GOP isn't just a party of nationalists.
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An incumbent has seldom ever been threatened by their own party. LBJ dropped out but he wad old and going to die anyway. It probably hasn't happened since Taft (over 100 years ago) and not many times before then anyway.
Status quo is king.
Status quo is king.
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- TexRex72
Ah, you mean those whom Trumpkins are likely to refer to as "RINOs"--or "cuckservatives"--because they may be socially progressive while sticking to more classical Republican ideals of governance.
It's a nice thought, and I once looked at it similarly, but I think the GOP simply no longer represents who they previously did. This wasn't Trump's doing, mind; rather you may look more toward the dug-in tick McConnell.
Joey D
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In the short term? Sure, but COVID-19 will be way less of an issue in a year or two (or sooner).
There's probably some truth to that. I guess I just like to think that eventually the Republican party will stop being terrible and get back to actual conservative ideals instead of nationalistic asshatery.
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Right now, either party are too corrupted to have any sort of ideal...
The Corporations have their hands too deep down the politicians pockets and massaging them in their trousers for the politicians to do anything that is good for the people...
Btw:
It's interesting that we talk about trump in every other threads, but in the trump thread we don't talk about him...
The Corporations have their hands too deep down the politicians pockets and massaging them in their trousers for the politicians to do anything that is good for the people...
Btw:
It's interesting that we talk about trump in every other threads, but in the trump thread we don't talk about him...
Dotini
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This could be the key to conservatism? Am I a conservative because I wear both belt and suspenders?
Btw;
Human psychology is a funny thing.
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I'd posit that the title change wasn't meant to incite meaningful discussion so much as it was an attention-seeking measure of which the individual responsible for the change has demonstrated a propensity.
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Tendency to behave a certain way.
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A gallup poll claims that 90% of Republicans support Trump. Being that things are more partisan now than ever, many Republicans who opposed Trump at first show support for him now, disregarding his idiocy and unpresidential-ness, because that's still better than the Democratic alternative. And as we know, many Trump supporters, even those who initially opposed the man, support Trump like he's the second coming of Christ, buying up MAGA/KAG hats, bumper stickers, flags, shirts, etc, most of which is ironically made in China. I honestly think it's scary to support a political figure like this. Politicians are not meant to be worshipped. "Cult Experts", sociologists who study cults, find that Trumpism is like a cult, in which the supporters believe and support everything Trump does, and if they back away, they are faced with ridicule and hatred. I'm a big Bernie Sanders fan, but I don't, and never would, show my support for him in the same vein as Trump supporters. Bernie may have started a big, proud, grassroots movement, but you don't see his supporters ride his dick the same way Trumpers do. It's quite cringey, at the end of the day. He's just another reactionary, billionaire/big corporate shill like most other right-wing presidents, yet his supporters act like his presidency is like no other, and constantly "draining the swamp", when in actuality, the only things that really sets him apart is his constant social media preference, ridiculous choice of language, and his outspoken hatred for Hispanics/Latinx people coming through the Southern border, as well as Muslims. Most Republican politicians probably share that same view, yet they keep quiet about it. Trump doesn't, and for that, he's directly responsible for the rise of outspoken racism and alt-right rhetoric that's been growing in this country.
Sure, there are some (around 10%) Republicans that genuinely dislike the man and don't support him. Centrist Republicans who vote either way and think that someone like Perot or Rand Paul or even Hillary would have been a better choice. 2A diehards who think that machine guns and hand grenades should be legal, and any *minor* gun control legislations (like the banning of bump stocks) passed by the Trump admin constitutes an attack on their "god-given right". Or even alt-right identitarian crazies, who dislike him for not establishing the US as a white homeland and ending all nonwhite immigration. But for the most part, these people keep their disdain for Trump silent, unlike Dems, because they know they'll be exiled from the Republican party if they dare speak against Trump.
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Taking it out of context, but wouldn't the easiest way for Trump to consolidate his return to another 4 years of Presidential "success" would be for him to go to war of some sort?
As generally, that always seems to work if someone is running out of ideas of how they can get the public backing for them to vote them into power (ie: make an enemy out of something).
I'm just making a really really really simple statement, but that surprises me that Trump hasn't actually tried to go further towards this way if he was REALLY REALLY desperate to conslidate his potenial victory for the election.
That is, after showing so many bad stuff with the current panademic and it would give America an opportunity to just see how many hardcore Trump voters there actually are.
Am I wrong in thinking this?
Joey D
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I think Americans are pretty sick of war and I can't imagine it being wildly popular if Trump decided to pull the trigger. When the US tried to provoke Iran back in January, I think Trump saw just how much the average US citizen wants nothing to do with it. People are tired of hearing about young people dying in some far off country and they're tired of the trillions of dollars being spent.
If something like another 9/11 occurs, then America's appetite for war will be renewed, but for now I think even Trump knows it's a bad move. Or maybe he doesn't, I have no idea, but I just hope our military leaders are smart enough to strongly discourage another costly war.
If you are going to vote for a guy because of what you think he can do for you....that's one thing.
Coming out and voting for this guy while 'spouting' how much of a christian you are...is something else entirely.
I'm seeing 'Bible-thumpers' doing that every day.
He is simply not a nice person and very divisive.
He also is a 'win at all cost' kind of person....the kind that cheats at a test and then brags about getting an 'A'.
Throughout his life, the guy has screwed small businesses.
He'd give contracts to build, then file bankruptcy and leave them holding the bag, only to restructure a few months later.
Many of those companies folded under the lack of repayment.
This is not difficult to look up. It is public record.
That is my big problem with him.
He is immoral.
Coming out and voting for this guy while 'spouting' how much of a christian you are...is something else entirely.
I'm seeing 'Bible-thumpers' doing that every day.
He is simply not a nice person and very divisive.
He also is a 'win at all cost' kind of person....the kind that cheats at a test and then brags about getting an 'A'.
Throughout his life, the guy has screwed small businesses.
He'd give contracts to build, then file bankruptcy and leave them holding the bag, only to restructure a few months later.
Many of those companies folded under the lack of repayment.
This is not difficult to look up. It is public record.
That is my big problem with him.
He is immoral.
Danoff
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I asked him to stop changing the thread title a while back, since it's very confusing and makes a mess out of the history of posts. For example, if I want to find a post on impeachment, I would probably have put "impeachment" into the thread title search function.
He apparently didn't think the suggestion was a good one.
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Dotini
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Correct. IMO, your suggestion was not a good one. This thread title was changed in order to relieve massive off-topic posting on other threads, and it has helped in that cause, also relieving the task of moderators dealing with bunny trails. I think the overall experience of the forum is enhanced when the thread you are in more or less sticks to the topic. If there was no deliberate provision for thread title change, then it wouldn't have happened. But it is a fact of life and an available facility. And occasionally it makes practical sense to do this. So do your part, keep your posts on topic in whatever thread you happen to be, and take advantage of this thread to tell us how you really feel about Trump.
But if you still feel that your suggestion is a good one and the content of this thread is such a valuable historical archive, then how about you create a thread specifically devoted to Trump complaints and worries, use it keeping your on-topic discipline in other threads, and I'll change the name of this thread back to what it was before.
