The types of cars that should be in GT5

[Solid Lifters]

I wanted more American cars in GT4. When I say American cars, I mean the car companies that originated in America when they started, and what I saw on TV back in the early 70s racing on TV that were "American" race cars. That would include Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Chrysler, Lincoln, etc. I understand with multinational "global" investors owning these companies today really no longer makes them exclusive to America. But, whatever.

I wanted the race cars I grew up watching on TV in GT4. Camaros, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc. This doesn't mean I wont like or enjoy Skylines, Evos, Imprenzas, etc. But I never grew wanting to drive any of these cars. Over 100 Skylines, or near that amount anyway, and yet only four or five Corvettes, Camaroa and Mustangs? That doesn't work well for me.

So, GT5 needs more "American" race cars in my opinion. An argue with me all you want. I know what I mean, if you don't.

 

[Folkedahl]

I'd like to see more old racecars.

 

[Classic Anycar]

I wanted more American cars in GT4. When I say American cars, I mean the car companies that originated in America when they started, and what I saw on TV back in the early 70s racing on TV that were "American" race cars. That would include Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Chrysler, Lincoln, etc. I understand with multinational "global" investors owning these companies today really no longer makes them exclusive to America. But, whatever.

I wanted the race cars I grew up watching on TV in GT4. Camaros, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc. This doesn't mean I wont like or enjoy Skylines, Evos, Imprenzas, etc. But I never grew wanting to drive any of these cars. Over 100 Skylines, or near that amount anyway, and yet only four or five Corvettes, Camaroa and Mustangs? That doesn't work well for me.

So, GT5 needs more "American" race cars in my opinion. An argue with me all you want. I know what I mean, if you don't.

I agree with you. They should be more like Forza. Decent cars, good regional variety, and plenty of racecars. Forza has the Speed GT CTS-V and the ETCC Opel Calibra.

 

[Classic Anycar]

My Sudgestions

2004 Pontaic Grand Prix
2005 Chevy Colbot
2005 Chevy Corvette Z06
2006 Saturn ION
2007 Saturn Sky Roadster
2005 or 06 Pontaic IROC XXIX TransAm
2006 Ford Fusion
2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS
2006 Dodge Charger

Wrong thread. You should post this in the wishlist. This is a type of car discussion.

 

[Hitman]

Ford GT - Made by Roush (British company) in the UK.
Ford RS200 - Made by Ford Europe (German company), Reliant (British company) and Cosworth (British company) in the UK.
Ford Escort - Made by Ford Europe (German company) in the UK and the Netherlands.

BUT

Vauxhall/Opel Astra - Made by Vauxhall/Opel, wholly GM-owned subsidiary (as with Lexus/Toyota, Infiniti/Nissan, Acura/Honda) in the UK/Germany.

The Escort and RS200 were never sold in "America" and so are neither sold in nor made by American companies - as your stated criteria - yet account for three of your American cars. The Ford GT, while sold in the US and funded by US money, is manufactured - as with its predecessor - in the UK, by Roush (the GT40 was built by Ford Europe, rather than Roush, but still in the UK) - so is sold in the US under US corporate badging but not actually made by US companies. On the other hand, the Astra is made by a US company, on European shores, but not sold in the US.

So, if the Astra is European, then the Infiniti G35 is American. If the Infiniti G35 is Japanese, then the Astra is American. The Focus RS (and rally car), Focus ST170, Escort, Ka and RS200 (and rally car) aren't American in any way, other than that the money trail eventually leads to the US, as it does with all Mazdas, Jaguars, Aston Martins and Volvos, so if any of those Fords are classed as American then the Mazdas, Jaguars, Aston Martins and Volvos are too.


As I said, when you ask where a car is from, life gets very complicated.

Actually, the Ford GT is made by Saleen, which is located in California, so it does count as an American Car. Also, the Ford GT40 Race Car is the Mark II so it was made in America also.

 

[Disturbed07]

@Disturbed ; is your 2.2% category a vehicle purchasing demographic ?
I zertainly hope not , meh .

This was my favorite, so I'll highlight it.
I can type, so I've got you there.
Yes, my IQ is vehicle purchasing demographic.
Why? Did you see some big words together somewhere?
By the way, Mechanical Engineer is actually in my scores demographic - there's a link at the bottom, but, no vehicle purchasing...no sir, I'm not qualified, only YOU are.


MAXDC: you're right, an IQ test is certainly not all telling. I never said it was, however, if you think it means nothing, all 10 of your scientists will likely agree.
P.S. I read that same paragraph on that same website, and I know you copied it, and passed it on as your own words, but thanks for trying. So you can stop winking and do more thinking, if it suits you.
IQ Test Scores: The Basics of IQ Score Interpretation
theres a link if you'd like to read half of what you said, at least close to word-for-word.

 

[Famine]

Famine - where did I say GM was the only cars I count as American?

I stand with cars sold in America, made by companys owned by Americans.... no, I don't care if that leaves dodge out, I mainly mean GM anyway.

You say you have a better definition

Quote me saying that, please.

I DID say that it isn't easy to point to any given car and say where it's from. I ALSO said that your definitions of where a car is from includes certain cars that you ignore and excludes certain cars you include. I have asked you why you readily contradict yourself in this manner and, thus far, you have been non-compliant, evasive and rather hostile.


Question: Do you consider the Chrysler Crossfire as "American"?

Ancillary question: What is 2.2% of 83,011?

 

[VeilsideR33sub]

Just a Speculation ;
GT4 raised a question that the others in the series did not ; where do you draw the line a Classic / Used category inclusion ?
More Models from the past will stray into inclusions from the prewar years that underperform in every way conceiveable to the modern sense . They would look amazing and be competetive within Classes ( power , pointage , vintage , shelfage and so on . . . ) but they might not be construed as Modern racing .
The question being raised needs some sort of reply by it's successor in the series . . .


^ancill = 1826.242 , just seen that on the tyreoscope

 

[Max_DC]

Mechanical Engineer is actually in my scores demographic -

So you are studying mechanical engineering ? Is that why think you are in the top 2.2 %? Where, FH or university ? What is the numerus clausus of what you study? You are in Frankfurt, so if your Abitur is from Hessen, then you know that it means less than a Bavarian Abitur for example ? You know that right?

MAXDC: you're right, an IQ test is certainly not all telling. I never said it was, however, if you think it means nothing, all 10 of your scientists will likely agree.
P.S. I read that same paragraph on that same website, and I know you copied it, and passed it on as your own words, but thanks for trying. So you can stop winking and do more thinking, if it suits you.
IQ Test Scores: The Basics of IQ Score Interpretation
theres a link if you'd like to read half of what you said, at least close to word-for-word.

I didn't say it means nothing, but certainly not a lot. I've never read your website before, it all just came out of my brain... I study medicine, I kind of know how things work in human beings... Nice to see though, that you know that I copied it from the link you provided, you really must be intelligent, since even I can't remember... btw concerning your list I'm also in the 2.2% W0000000t 👍
Sorry but you are the one who provoques discussions like that, what is this sig for? Do you want to prove that you are smart? just show it. Famine doesn't need such a sig, you do neither. I mean, yeah whatever makes you happy...

 

[Disturbed07]

Quote me saying that, please.

I DID say that it isn't easy to point to any given car and say where it's from. I ALSO said that your definitions of where a car is from includes certain cars that you ignore and excludes certain cars you include. I have asked you why you readily contradict yourself in this manner and, thus far, you have been non-compliant, evasive and rather hostile.


Question: Do you consider the Chrysler Crossfire as "American"?

Ancillary question: What is 2.2% of 83,011?

I woulda guessed about 1800...but Veilside showed me it's 1826.... I woulda been far off, but that's without thinking more than 3 seconds, sorry to dissapoint.

Actually you've misunderstood most of what I've said. Case in point? where you said I only count GM, note that funny part where it says MAINLY - meaning these are the American cars I want to see. I don't care about european ford's much, or opel's, and the only Dodge's I like are already in. Get it now? now that I spelled it out for you?

Off the top of my head, yes the Chrysler Crossfire is American,I don't know if it's not, I'm sure you do, but what you arent seeing here is, there's a simpler way of seeing it, that works much better. And if it's made by somebody else, I don't care, that's what you don't get here. I care about cars made by American company's, that are sold in America. And for some reason, I feel like I said that before.... hmmm...
You're absolutly right, you never once said you knew the answer. However, if you argue somebody's statement, arent you supposed to have an opinion? or at least say you don't know the answer? you can't have both, so pick one or the other, please, spare the drama and chose.

MAXDC: I returned to America the 31st, yesterday. sorry to dissapoint, I've said things here before to implie that I'm an American, but that may have been before you joined, or in thread's you didnt visit. Either way, I don't speak German worth crap. -so no, I dont understand you, you've beaten me.

P.S. You're the only person to bring up the sig, since then, maybe 1 other person has, you're the only person who felt a need to whine, or try to prove yourself better than me for it.
It's also a phsycological trap, and you fell in. You see, now you're trapped! And I have mind power over you!
Anybody who puts that much effort into proving themself smarter than me, calling the test dumb, then taking it, and saying they did as good as me, is an ass. If it's so dumb, why'd you ever take it? And if you took it, and thought it meant something, how can you put me down for it? And if either is true, and you did score so high, why would you be so concerned about being smarter? And what makes you think Famine took one? But who said he was smart? he knows where/who makes owns cars, and that's good, but it doesnt make him smarter than the average bear, simply knowledgable about this topic, however, he's failed to have an opinion, or admit he doesnt know the answer

I'm not saying my definition is perfect, I'm not saying anybody has to like it, or agree with it. I am saying I have a definition, which is right in line with everybody else who posted an opinion.
Anybody who thinks we're wrong, feel free to give us a list of what's American.
Or at least say you don't know what should count, anything other than directionless argumentation

Go Ahead, Famine - Enlighten us with your utter and profound wisdom!

 

[Disturbed07]

Quote me saying that, please.

I DID say that it isn't easy to point to any given car and say where it's from. I ALSO said that your definitions of where a car is from includes certain cars that you ignore and excludes certain cars you include. I have asked you why you readily contradict yourself in this manner and, thus far, you have been non-compliant, evasive and rather hostile.
Well, hows this for non-evasive. I readily contradict myself because, since I know many cars are skewed all over the map, there must be a simpler generalization. Rather than ***** and argue about who's what and who just bought who, I'd go with the common association of where each car is from, JUST LIKE GT1,2,3,4 DID. So, I then came up with one, it's in the post before this, and the post before that, and it might just be in another too, but that's a long time ago.




Question: Do you consider the Chrysler Crossfire as "American"?

Ancillary question: What is 2.2% of 83,011?

oops, I double posted. well, might as well say something now, ooohh! I know!
Notice how the European Ford's are in America, but you can't race them in the American events?
Does everybody consider them American cars, or "european" in europe? cause, europe is NOT a country, and it can't own anything such as a car company, so, what do you call them there? I'll bet people there consider Opel's German, no? are Ford's American? how about Vauxhaul's? Are Lamborghini's still Italian? oh, I guess I have some credibility here after all.
maybe they call the opel's or vauxhaul's american, but I doubt it, but I'm damned sure of the other two

 

[Max_DC]

Off the top of my head, yes the Chrysler Crossfire is American,I don't know if it's not, I'm sure you do, but what you arent seeing here is, there's a simpler way of seeing it, that works much better. And if it's made by somebody else, I don't care, that's what you don't get here. I care about cars made by American company's, that are sold in America. And for some reason, I feel like I said that before.... hmmm...

As far as I know the base for the Crossfire is the MB SLK, but that is tough decision, since the desing is totally new and abviously American.

MAXDC: I returned to America the 31st, yesterday. sorry to dissapoint, I've said things here before to implie that I'm an American, but that may have been before you joined, or in thread's you didnt visit. Either way, I don't speak German worth crap. -so no, I dont understand you, you've beaten me.

Didn't know that you are from the USA...

P.S. You're the only person to bring up the sig, since then, maybe 1 other person has, you're the only person who felt a need to whine, or try to prove yourself betphsycological trap, and you fell in. You see, now you're trapped! And I have mind pter than me for it.
It's also a ower over you!

Actually your posts sounded agressive and arrogant sometimes, that's why I've read your sig and it fitted perfectly

I

Anybody who puts that much effort into proving themself smarter than me, calling the test dumb, then taking it, and saying they did as good as me, is an ass.

I didn't say that I'm smarter than you, I just said, that if you define yourself as smart only because of an IQ test, then you might get a wrong impression. Of course I don't know you and how smart you are, since we are only talking about cars here, but you highlighted the fact that you took part in that test and scored high.

If it's so dumb, why'd you ever take it? And if you took it, and thought it meant something, how can you put me down for it? And if either is true, and you did score so high, why would you be so concerned about being smarter?

I havn't and I won't. Why should I ? And if I would have, I wouldn't highlight it in my sig, that's for sure... ever heard anything about understatement ?
Well, for somebody who claims to be that smart, you talk a lot of bs, you know .
That somehow doesn't fit... And sou seem to believe, that you are right most of the time. From what I've read from you here, I somehow can't agree on that.

And what makes you think Famine took one? But who said he was smart? he knows where/who makes owns cars, and that's good, but it doesnt make him smarter than the average bear, simply knowledgable about this topic, however, he's failed to have an opinion, or admit he doesnt know the answer.

Well, that is something you can't know, since you are rather new here. Famine is a scientist and he knows a lot, although there were several situations, where I didn't agree with him
Having an opinion on everything makes you smart ? Well...
Imo you tend to make the world easier than it is, you can't put complex questions into simple answers without risking to be wrong. Another form of intelligence : being able to connect many aspects of a certain problem before you make a decision. I don't know the correct terms for that in english however...

If you don't mind, please tell me what you do? What do you study ?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

WAY MORE Australian Cars

 

[Disturbed07]

As far as I know the base for the Crossfire is the MB SLK, but that is tough decision, since the desing is totally new and abviously American.

Wouldnt surprise me.

Didn't know that you are from the USA...


Actually your posts sounded agressive and arrogant sometimes, that's why I've read your sig and it fitted perfectly

I


I didn't say that I'm smarter than you, I just said, that if you define yourself as smart only because of an IQ test, then you might get a wrong impression. Of course I don't know you and how smart you are, since we are only talking about cars here, but you highlighted the fact that you took part in that test and scored high.
It actually was a joke, and I was quite right thinking somebody would get over-zealous in a response to it. I did score quite high, and I do think I'm smart, I thought I was smart before I took it too, but it gave me something extra, yes. why wouldnt it? especially to someone who makes fun of most people he sees for being dumb, and doing dumb things. I may be condescending at times, but it's what I enjoy, I won't apologize for it, it's who I am.

I havn't and I won't. Why should I ? And if I would have, I wouldn't highlight it in my sig, that's for sure... ever heard anything about understatement ?
Well, for somebody who claims to be that smart, you talk a lot of bs, you know .
That somehow doesn't fit... And sou seem to believe, that you are right most of the time. From what I've read from you here, I somehow can't agree on that.
I didn't say it means nothing, but certainly not a lot. I've never read your website before, it all just came out of my brain... I study medicine, I kind of know how things work in human beings... Nice to see though, that you know that I copied it from the link you provided, you really must be intelligent, since even I can't remember... btw concerning your list I'm also in the 2.2% W00000
Ahem, excuse me? you won't take it? you just said on that list your in the top 2... unless you thought it meant EVERYBODY in those fields HAS to be in that percentage..no... did you really? wow. It's a generalization man, it doesnt mean everybody's in that range, how could you even think that?
Well, that is something you can't know, since you are rather new here. Famine is a scientist and he knows a lot, although there were several situations, where I didn't agree with him never said he was stupid, just being stupid about this.
Having an opinion on everything makes you smart ? Well...
Imo you tend to make the world easier than it is, you can't put complex questions into simple answers without risking to be wrong. Another form of intelligence : being able to connect many aspects of a certain problem before you make a decision. I don't know the correct terms for that in english however... connect the dots?
I never said my definition is perfect, I know it's not. however, once you get into all that crap, the lines get so blurred, almost nothing is from anywhere, and I'm talking about specific cars, from a general area of the world. So rather than speculate as to what may or may not be, and never have an answer, I made a generalization to simplify it. However, Famine could not grasp this, and did what I already knew to be an excercise in futility. Because the argument would be never-ending, And I look for the end, at the beginning.

If you don't mind, please tell me what you do? What do you study ?

I am a student. I am/will be a Psychological Analyst
I'm working in the field now, but won't make any real money until I'm out of school
Right now, we're actually doing a hilarious bit, that I believe, completly personifies human stupidity.
How drunk is the guy with non-alchoholic beer? how drunk is his twin brother, drinking regular beer? can either drive better than the other right now?
You'd be both amazed and saddend by the results that are seemingly inevidible.
I also cannot spell good, but I do my best, that's where the IQ test made fun of me, I was only in the 70-80th percentile there, that's so far below the rest it is also sad.


Forgive the giant letters, I don't know how to make the quote's run through the post, nor do I know how to quote different people in the same post.

 

[Disturbed07]

WAY MORE Australian Cars

Sorry to double post, but I had to say Hell yeah to what this guy said, and be thankful he hasnt tried classifing everything in a manner with no end.
So, Hell Yeah
More of everything, but mostly, more of everything non-Japanese, not that I don't like Japanese cars, but I think we've already got just about all of em

 

[Max_DC]

Forgive the giant letters, I don't know how to make the quote's run through the post, nor do I know how to quote different people in the same post.

First of all, you press the reply button. Then you cut out the /quote at the end of the text and paste it at the end of the first paragraph you want to quote.

The rest of the text is not quoted now. in order to do that, just mark the text/part of the text and hit the quote button in the tool bar ( first one on the right side, next to the php button.

I am a student. I am/will be a Psychological Analyst
I'm working in the field now, but won't make any real money until I'm out of school
Right now, we're actually doing a hilarious bit, that I believe, completly personifies human stupidity.
How drunk is the guy with non-alchoholic beer? how drunk is his twin brother, drinking regular beer? can either drive better than the other right now?
You'd be both amazed and saddend by the results that are seemingly inevidible.
I also cannot spell good, but I do my best, that's where the IQ test made fun of me, I was only in the 70-80th percentile there, that's so far below the rest it is also sad.

We learned similiar things in our psycholigcal courses, it is relly interesting indeed.

It actually was a joke, and I was quite right thinking somebody would get over-zealous in a response to it.

Can I smell that? There are so many idiots and poser in the internet, that it is hard to find the one, who is being sarcastic with it. It doesn't get easier whn I don't see your face, but just afew letters; as you are a student of psychology I don't have to tell you that....

I did score quite high, and I do think I'm smart, I thought I was smart before I took it too, but it gave me something extra, yes. why wouldnt it? especially to someone who makes fun of most people he sees for being dumb, and doing dumb things. I may be condescending at times, but it's what I enjoy, I won't apologize for it, it's who I am.

Again I hope that you know how other people will interpret your behavior.
What you say now is totally different to your previous posts. Always remember, we can't see you, we don't know you. All we see are your posts in various threads. There are 12 year old wannabe experts and poser who write the same stuff like you ( car xy is teh rul0000r and Japanese cars are teh suxxxx000rssss !!11!1!1!!! etc ) and we can't tell the difference and your signature certainly doesn't help

Psychology was also part of my studies in medicine and I know many students of psychology. They often like to play with their knowledge in order to test the reaction and behavior of the people. That, however doesn't work that great on the internet, as we can see.

Ahem, excuse me? you won't take it? you just said on that list your in the top 2... unless you thought it meant EVERYBODY in those fields HAS to be in that percentage..no... did you really? wow. It's a generalization man, it doesnt mean everybody's in that range, how could you even think that?

You provided a link; you said I copied my text from there, which was wrong btw. Then I read your link and found that list at the end. Again... the W0000t + + 👍 should indicate the sarcasm of my sentence, of course it is wrong to think that you have an IQ of XY, just because of this list. And even with these smilies you didn't notive the sarcasm, how should we see the sarcasm/irony/provocation in your signature then ?
Actually I thought that you were the one, who saw that list and said to himself : Hey I study the same ...wow I'm in the top 2.2% .

 

[Famine]

I woulda guessed about 1800...but Veilside showed me it's 1826.... I woulda been far off, but that's without thinking more than 3 seconds, sorry to dissapoint.

Okay, now WHY did I ask you that specific question?

Actually you've misunderstood most of what I've said. Case in point? where you said I only count GM, note that funny part where it says MAINLY - meaning these are the American cars I want to see. I don't care about european ford's much, or opel's, and the only Dodge's I like are already in. Get it now? now that I spelled it out for you?

As soon as you said that the list was what you felt, rather than any logical determination, I got where you're coming from. A flawed point of view.

Off the top of my head, yes the Chrysler Crossfire is American,I don't know if it's not,

Made in America, sold in America, based on a Mercedes.

Remember why you don't class Lexus as American? Made in America, sold in America, based on a Toyota.

So you class Lexus as not American, but the Crossfire as American. Like I said, flawed and not based on any logical determination. Why not quit with the attempts to justify yourself and just admit that the list only contains what you like?

You're absolutly right, you never once said you knew the answer. However, if you argue somebody's statement, arent you supposed to have an opinion? or at least say you don't know the answer? you can't have both, so pick one or the other, please, spare the drama and chose.

I already did. My opinion is that you are wrong, because it is nearly impossible to classify where any given car is "from".

My further opinion is that I don't CARE where a car is from, as long as it is good to drive.

And what makes you think Famine took one? But who said he was smart?

Use the search facility. Search for the phrase "IQ Test" on the whole site.

he knows where/who makes owns cars, and that's good, but it doesnt make him smarter than the average bear, simply knowledgable about this topic

Go into the Rumble Strip. Look for "GTP Awards 2K5". It's quite high up. When you're done, go into the 2003 Awards forum (hidden from normal view)

however, he's failed to have an opinion, or admit he doesnt know the answer

I've told you three times what my opinion is. You've failed to understand it.

 

[Nattefrost]

And what makes you think Famine took one? But who said he was smart? he knows where/who makes owns cars, and that's good, but it doesnt make him smarter than the average bear, simply knowledgable about this topic, however, he's failed to have an opinion, or admit he doesnt know the answer

This is the best.

I don't know who said Famine is smart, but I sure say he is.
Why? Not because he knows a lot about cars or whatever, but because of his unbelievably sensible way of participating in a discussion.

He failed to have an opinion? I should advise you to read everything he's said again, if you didn't get his opinion. And if I say read, I mean read what he says, not interpret everything he says the way it suits you best. He has a very clear opinion, manages to back it up with very reasonable and logical arguments and at the same time proves you wrong. Still, you keep on using the same arguments over and over again, refusing to accept any explanation given by Famine or anyone else.

I think it's time to rethink your forum-strategies...

 

[Disturbed07]

Okay, now WHY did I ask you that specific question?


As soon as you said that the list was what you felt, rather than any logical determination, I got where you're coming from. A flawed point of view.


Made in America, sold in America, based on a Mercedes.

Remember why you don't class Lexus as American? Made in America, sold in America, based on a Toyota.

So you class Lexus as not American, but the Crossfire as American. Like I said, flawed and not based on any logical determination. Why not quit with the attempts to justify yourself and just admit that the list only contains what you like?



I already did. My opinion is that you are wrong, because it is nearly impossible to classify where any given car is "from".

My further opinion is that I don't CARE where a car is from, as long as it is good to drive.



Use the search facility. Search for the phrase "IQ Test" on the whole site.



Go into the Rumble Strip. Look for "GTP Awards 2K5". It's quite high up. When you're done, go into the 2003 Awards forum (hidden from normal view)



I've told you three times what my opinion is. You've failed to understand it.

okay, Famine, I'm sure whatever these awards you have or whatever it is you're talking about, are nice, and you got them for a good reason. - But they are your awards, show them to me or don't, I'm not dunning around looking for your accomplishments

I also now realize that you think we can't classify cars.
Would you like GT5 to have simply a "car list", rather than different subdivisions that are countries, and/or continents?

You have yet to tell me where these Lexus' and Infinity's, and Acura's are built in America.
I live here, you don't, so if you know for a fact that they are built here, and not simply assembled, (from already built parts), or even that, or where those factorys are located, or some kind of useful information regarding that, since all my life, I've never heard somebody say the cars were built in my own country, please, relieve me from my ignorance.

Mercedes and Dodge
Acura and Honda
the difference? one started out American, and still sells almost all of it's cars with an American design.
other difference: Dodge isnt simply all copies of Mercedes, and neither is any Chrysler company. So, how is this the same? Plus, I've still yet to learn that Acura's are actually built in America, or Infinity's, or Lexus.
I'd call each of these differences, that would cause possible conclusions that Dodge is far more American than Acura.

Like I said, is Lamborghini German now? did it change as soon as Volkswagon bought them?

If acura's and the like are actually built in North America, just like Ford's, Chevy's, and Dodge's, and so forth, AND generally designed by American's, then yes, they're American, but they are NOT. - even IF, they are built here, all are simply copies of Japanese cars. Period.
Just like the GTO is a copy of an Austrailian car.
but that has a completely, 100% American Engine, Transmission, and numorous other parts, so, even that is FAR more American than any Acura I know of.

Tell me with a straight computer-face that's untrue.

It's been a bit since I've been here, and my memory from last-night could be better, so, where did I say it was what I felt, and not what I think?

You likley asked that question trying to "imitate" me, and therefore say I was asking random, non-related questions, but I could be wrong, as MAXDC said, this is typing.

MAX-DC, I know this is typing, and that's why if I use sarcasm, it'll likely say it with an arrow, or it'll be obvious I'm being an ass about whatever the subject may be, even through typing. I also understand that there is no way for you to realize that my sig is for fun, until you say something to me about it, but that was kinda the point, I know everybody sees it, but I wanted to see if people would point it out, or wait till in an argument, and then when they wanna prove me stupid, use it.
Hopefully nobody's dumb enough to point out the fantasy world - I'll have a field day!

P.S. I didnt catch your sarcasm because I'm not better at sensing things like that through typing than anybody else, I can only use the general way people talk, to get a description of them on the net.

 

[Disturbed07]

This is the best.

I don't know who said Famine is smart, but I sure say he is.
Why? Not because he knows a lot about cars or whatever, but because of his unbelievably sensible way of participating in a discussion.

He failed to have an opinion? I should advise you to read everything he's said again, if you didn't get his opinion. And if I say read, I mean read what he says, not interpret everything he says the way it suits you best. He has a very clear opinion, manages to back it up with very reasonable and logical arguments and at the same time proves you wrong. Still, you keep on using the same arguments over and over again, refusing to accept any explanation given by Famine or anyone else.

I think it's time to rethink your forum-strategies...

So you're telling me the fact that Acura's are simply copies of Hondas, and Chrysler design their (most anyway) own cars isnt a major difference?
Or that the fact that Infinity was never owned by American's, and has never built an American car, simply used Nissan's to copy, isnt a major difference?

I never said Famine is stupid, I questioned his thinking in this single thread, and said "Who said Famine is so smart"
You taking this to mean he is not, would be YOU interpreting what I say, would it not? Take it direct, no alterior motive involved.

with that clear and indisputable evidence on the table, what exactly was I proven wrong on?

And I've still never once said they're completly American, simply can be classified as American. That is what I've meant, to say the least.
Perhaps I've contradicted myself here,in this thread at times. However, that is simply because I was trying to avoid an argument, and get a general classification down, which was to no avail, as Famine won't accept anything as anything, unless it is, was, and is to be, forever.

 

[Nattefrost]

So you're telling me the fact that Acura's are simply copies of Hondas, and Chrysler design their (most anyway) own cars isnt a major difference?

Am I now?

He has proven you wrong, several times in this thread. I'm not going to waste my time quoting him, it would be useless, as you have shown you're not going to listen to him. You've been in this thread long enough, you should have seen all the "evidence" you need. The fact that you ask for it shows you didn't take the time to read it properly.

The thing is, while you're so obsessed about giving the perfect definition of where a car belongs to, Famine doesn't try to give one. And because he doesn't, you consider his opinion worthless, while all he tries is to point out the flaws in your definition. And he succeeds by the way.

So, if you want to have this perfect definition, listen to what he says, take his advice. If he manages to point out flaws, change your definition. Maybe you'll ultimately come up with a decent one, one Famine agrees with. Don't consider him your enemy for just going up against you. Put aside the ego and stop holding on to your own flawed theory.

I never said Famine is stupid, I questioned his thinking in this single thread, and said "Who said Famine is so smart"
You taking this to mean he is not, would be YOU interpreting what I say, would it not? Take it direct, no alterior motive involved.

Again, do I now?

 

[Disturbed07]

I guess my problem is that Famine doesnt respond about certain things I say, rather, he highlights a different part, leaving out that argument, or point. He's done it quite a few times now, like my question of wether in England, they call the Ford Focus ST American, or what do they call it?
You are absolutly right, Famine has only said when I was wrong, or when he thought I was, and that, my friend is another problem. why? how? because all he says is "there is no definition anymore" So no cars count as American??? are none Japanese??? there ARE classes, and it's quite easy to figure out, I've said this 5 times now.
Where is it designed? built? sold?, who designed it? built? and what country is this company FROM. maybe Opel is owned by Americans, but it's IN Germany, and designed by Germans, and so forth. Acura's, Designed in Japan, at LEAST partially built in Japan, and owned by Japanese a Japanese company, though maybe based in America, all they do is sell them here, possibly, assemble, though I find it unlikly, but maybe. Also, ALL of their cars are remakes of their big brother, Honda. - not the case with--> Chrysler, Designed by Americans, Built by Americans, and located in America.
anybody tell me that's wrong. You may be able to name your specific Crossfire, (though bodywork was developed in America, by Americans, I believe), so, like I've said 5 times before, Famine, you can keep trying to nitpick it, buts it'll fall true more than your theory of everything being blurred will.
If you wanna name cars, we can, but we both know almost every single Chrysler, Ford, and GM cars, that I consider American, will be completly in these bounds I have just stated, for the 3rd time, though now I'm being much more descriptive.

I'm sorry, Famine, I wanted to simply compromise, and just get a simple, general agreement with you here, though you made it impossible, and even when I changed definitions to try to suit you, you simply stated my obvious contradictions, and people wonder why I never compromise.... don't worry, it won't happen again.
Now, let me know every loophole you can think of, and I'll tell you why the car is from a certain place. (though 9 times out of 10, it's gonna be who owns the company, barring companies that've been bought out.)
And some cars you can consider hybrids, or cars from 2 different countries, or worlds, like the old Shelby Cobra's.... calling it American it correct, and calling it (was it the U.K?) from wherever else it was made, (the chassis, etc) is also correct.
I rest my case.

 

[Nattefrost]

I'm sorry, Famine, I wanted to simply compromise

No, you didn't. And still you don't, that's clear.
You still failed to take anything Famine said into account.
And no, you didn't change your definition to suit him.
Why do you fail to see your own faults?

 

[Appie]

what are riceburners???

 

[Appie]

what do you all talking about

 

[Messiah]

Bugatti Veyron.

& more Euro Hot Hatches from the 80's / 90's.

 

[Famine]

okay, Famine, I'm sure whatever these awards you have or whatever it is you're talking about, are nice, and you got them for a good reason. - But they are your awards, show them to me or don't, I'm not dunning around looking for your accomplishments

GTP Awards 2003

GTP Awards 2005

I also now realize that you think we can't classify cars.

No - I don't think that either.

You have yet to tell me where these Lexus' and Infinity's, and Acura's are built in America.
I live here, you don't, so if you know for a fact that they are built here, and not simply assembled, (from already built parts), or even that, or where those factorys are located, or some kind of useful information regarding that, since all my life, I've never heard somebody say the cars were built in my own country, please, relieve me from my ignorance.

Now, had I said "United States of America", or "USA", or just simply "US", you'd be right. But I said "America". The continent.

Lexus build the North American Market RX in a factory in Canada.

Mercedes and Dodge
Acura and Honda
the difference? one started out American, and still sells almost all of it's cars with an American design.
other difference: Dodge isnt simply all copies of Mercedes, and neither is any Chrysler company. So, how is this the same? Plus, I've still yet to learn that Acura's are actually built in America, or Infinity's, or Lexus.
I'd call each of these differences, that would cause possible conclusions that Dodge is far more American than Acura.

And, in general, you'd be correct. However, this is a change in position from:

how about the cars listed in America, in GT4? Is that to simple for you to understand

And:

How about this::::::::Who Owns The Comapany? that is ALL since you just can't get over petty details

The former phrase would include Acura. The latter would exclude Dodge.

Like I said, is Lamborghini German now? did it change as soon as Volkswagon bought them?

Well, according to you, yes:

How about this::::::::Who Owns The Comapany? that is ALL since you just can't get over petty details

As I say, I haven't actually made ONE definition yet. You've leapt to a whole load of conclusions and repeatedly changed your definitions, each time insisting that they are correct (yet still changing them) and that mine, which I haven't stated, are not.

If acura's and the like are actually built in North America, just like Ford's, Chevy's, and Dodge's, and so forth, AND generally designed by American's, then yes, they're American, but they are NOT. - even IF, they are built here, all are simply copies of Japanese cars. Period.
Just like the GTO is a copy of an Austrailian car.
but that has a completely, 100% American Engine, Transmission, and numorous other parts, so, even that is FAR more American than any Acura I know of.

Hmm. Please define these "numorous other parts" (sic) for me.

Aaaand, to drag you back to Ford... Where do you classify these vehicles (I include extra information to assist you)?

Ford Ka - designed, built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus ST170 - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus RS - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.
Ford Escort Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.
Ford RS200 - designed, built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe, with work outsourced to Reliant (UK) and Cosworth (UK). Never made it to US.
Ford RS200 Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.

(we'll skip the GT for now as there is conflicting information which I cannot verify presently)

At the very least if you're using ANY (or even ALL) of your definitions, these cars must be struck from your list of American cars as none of them were made in America, sold in America, used American parts or used American personnel at any point of the construction process. The only thing American about them - as with the only thing Japanese about the Lexus RX - is that the parent company, and thus source of funds, is from there.


And this is my point. As yet you haven't amended your count of "60" which excludes cars due to what is a perfectly okay reason, but includes cars which also fall foul of that same perfectly okay reason. It's not that your definitions are bad per se (well, when you settle on one), but that your deductions based on those definitions are inconsistent.

You likley asked that question trying to "imitate" me, and therefore say I was asking random, non-related questions, but I could be wrong

Yes, you are. There is a very, very specific reason why I asked that question and I'd have expected you to twig it.

Top 2.2% = The bracket in which you claim your IQ to be.
83,011 = The population of this site at that time.
2.2% of 83,011 = The population of this site who are...?

Go on. You can do it.

 

[Max_DC]

Top 2.2% = The bracket in which you claim your IQ to be.
83,011 = The population of this site at that time.
2.2% of 83,011 = The population of this site who are...?

Go on. You can do it.

Which would mean, that GTP is representative. Is that the case? I don't know... You almost completly leave out the female population for example...

 

[Famine]

Indeed - and it has been shown by various IQ Test threads that the population at GTP has a higher average intelligence (such as is indicated by these tests) than the general population. You would expect this, as men tend to score better on IQ tests than women (due to a high dependency on spatial awareness - an ability in general better in men than women), and internet users AND computer games players are both populations where IQ is higher than overall average (and, of course, we're both).

So in fact I'm being overly kind. But it's a good little wake-up for our new friend.

 

[Disturbed07]

Now, had I said "United States of America", or "USA", or just simply "US", you'd be right. But I said "America". The continent.

Lexus build the North American Market RX in a factory in Canada.

Hey, read this, there is no continent in the world called America That is a Country, North America, is the continent, as you make sure to call it the second time
America - the country I live in.
North America - The continent I live in.
South America - The other continent over here.
Do you understand now? I am not a u.s.ian, I am an American, I live in America, a guy in Canada, is not an American, he is a Canadian
I'm sure you think you're clever and you got me with a technicality, however, we beat you're country up, to get ours, and you do not get to tell us what it is called, either.
We made our country, and it's called America, and the group of United States, is America, and are OF America, not part of North America, to be called America, and changed around by the very people who failed to stop us from leaving their country 235 years ago.

And, in general, you'd be correct. However, this is a change in position from:

And:

The former phrase would include Acura. The latter would exclude Dodge.

Well, according to you, yes:

As I say, I haven't actually made ONE definition yet. You've leapt to a whole load of conclusions and repeatedly changed your definitions, each time insisting that they are correct (yet still changing them) and that mine, which I haven't stated, are not..

Is it making sense now where I said I was trying to appease you? are you thinking yet? I told you they changed, I tried to go with something I could agree with, that would be acceptable to you, but there is none.

Other people said you had explained your definition a bunch of times.. so tell them how dumb they are, but I assumed since they were all so gung ho you had stated one, I'd try to find it, well, how about you get an opinion? or shut up, and stop whining other peoples arent correct.



Hmm. Please define these "numorous other parts" (sic) for me.

Aaaand, to drag you back to Ford... Where do you classify these vehicles (I include extra information to assist you)?

Ford Ka - designed, built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus ST170 - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus RS - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe. Never made it to US.
Ford Focus Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.
Ford Escort Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.
Ford RS200 - designed, built and sold in Europe by Ford Europe, with work outsourced to Reliant (UK) and Cosworth (UK). Never made it to US.
Ford RS200 Rally Car - original design from Ford Europe. Vehicle variant built by Ford Rally (UK) based on vehicles built in Europe by Ford Europe.

(we'll skip the GT for now as there is conflicting information which I cannot verify presently)

At the very least if you're using ANY (or even ALL) of your definitions, these cars must be struck from your list of American cars as none of them were made in America, sold in America, used American parts or used American personnel at any point of the construction process. The only thing American about them - as with the only thing Japanese about the Lexus RX - is that the parent company, and thus source of funds, is from there.


And this is my point. As yet you haven't amended your count of "60" which excludes cars due to what is a perfectly okay reason, but includes cars which also fall foul of that same perfectly okay reason. It's not that your definitions are bad per se (well, when you settle on one), but that your deductions based on those definitions are inconsistent..[/QUOTE]
Ford Focus ST170 - Looks, sounds, drives, and has same power rating as Ford Focus SVT.... minus 5 hp, so what's your point? I say the Focus was designed in America, for America, and as much donkey pooh as you've thrown around, you still dont have an opinion. Get one.

Yes, you are. There is a very, very specific reason why I asked that question and I'd have expected you to twig it.

Top 2.2% = The bracket in which you claim your IQ to be.
83,011 = The population of this site at that time.
2.2% of 83,011 = The population of this site who are...?

Go on. You can do it.

What, you actually think 83 thousand people post in here?
how about 800, maybe.

Alright Famine, it's time to become a man, and devolope your own opinion, instead of beating around the bush, like a polotician, and actually take a stand here, if your gonna complain about other people's (inferior) definitions