The war on ISIS.

[Sanji Himura]

If I were in charge, I would provide for a lesser West Syria to include Alawites, Shiites, Druze, Christians, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Jews and anyone else who is not a Sunni extremist in a secular, democratic arrangement. I would carve off a large swathe in the east for Sunnis and perhaps attach it to Iraq, and in the northeast I would provide a nation state for Kurds, also to include portions of Iraq, Turkey and Iran.

The large overall problem with that is that it is already happening with ISIS. No matter whatever treaty that would eventually be signed between all parties involved, large swaths of Eastern Syria would be under NO control, just waiting for someone to fill in the power vacuum, something that a group with similar goals of ISIS could easily fill and expand.

Basically, you would have created the whole problem all over again.

 

[Rage Racer]

Turkey refused to close the border with Syria as suggested by the US.

Stay classy, Recep...

 

[Touring Mars]

I would carve off .. portions of ... Turkey

Thanksgiving was last week...

Sadly, I think the others are right - no matter which way you sliced it, the root causes of conflict - sectarianism, intolerance, greed, resources etc., would not be addressed.

 

[Rage Racer]

Turkey deploys its troops on the north of Iraq territory.
Iraq calls it a violation if its sovereignity and threatens with a military response.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Turkey deploys its troops on the north of Iraq territory.
Iraq calls it a violation if its sovereignity and threatens with a military response.

It's a strange one, Turkey have been active in the region for a year or two and were invited to be there by Iraq. Something has changed behind the scenes for sure.

 

[mister dog]

It's a strange one, Turkey have been active in the region for a year or two and were invited to be there by Iraq. Something has changed behind the scenes for sure.

My bet would be that the Iraqi gov. found out Erdogan is buying Daesh oil

 

[ECGadget]

My bet would be that the Iraqi gov. found out Erdogan is buying Daesh oil

If that is true, get him into a cell. Funding ISIS knowingly is as bad as commiting the crimes they do.

@Rage Racer That is quite a good cartoon. Shows how unstable the entire area is.

 

[mister dog]

If that is true, get him into a cell. Funding ISIS knowingly is as bad as commiting the crimes they do.

The Russians already gave their proof with satellite images of oil trucks crossing the border:

https://www.rt.com/news/324303-isis-oil-routes-turkey/

 

[TenEightyOne]

The Russians already gave their proof with satellite images of oil trucks crossing the border:

https://www.rt.com/news/324303-isis-oil-routes-turkey/

They proved that oil trucks cross into Turkey. We also know (though you can't tell from those photos) that a good portion of the supply going into Turkey and surrounding areas contains oil from the same black market that Da'esh sell to.

What those photos don't prove (unless you add a caption saying so) is that Erdogan knowingly trades directly with Da'esh. I'd like to see the proof of that to believe it, and those photos aren't it.

 

[ECGadget]

The Russians already gave their proof with satellite images of oil trucks crossing the border:

https://www.rt.com/news/324303-isis-oil-routes-turkey/

As long as the proof is as clear cut as can be, then that's all the proof the UN should need. BUT we always need to be careful when dealing with 'proof' that can be shown for political reasons. I've learnt that when dealing with high profile takedowns such as these, you want to make sure that the proof is indeed authenticated. 'Easiest' way? Catch them in the act. Seeing the deals, coupled with satellite imagery courtesy of Russia would lead to a case that cannot fail. And the last thing we want is politicians slipping their way out of a situation on some fabricated excuse or technicality.

 

[FoRiZon]

Turkey deploys its troops on the north of Iraq territory.
Iraq calls it a violation if its sovereignity and threatens with a military response.

Obama should participate too since he basically also do it.

Or just with Putin, i suppose.

 

[mister dog]

They proved that oil trucks cross into Turkey. We also know (though you can't tell from those photos) that a good portion of the supply going into Turkey and surrounding areas contains oil from the same black market that Da'esh sell to.

What those photos don't prove (unless you add a caption saying so) is that Erdogan knowingly trades directly with Da'esh. I'd like to see the proof of that to believe it, and those photos aren't it.

Then Erdogan has no control at all over his borders, and Turkish refineries are acting behind his back.
It's been known for a long time already that the Turkish gov. is acting very passively towards Daesh, using the conflict to aim for the Kurds instead, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is true.

As long as the proof is as clear cut as can be, then that's all the proof the UN should need.

That's the problem, when proof is used for political reasons it will never ever be clear cut

 

[TenEightyOne]

Then Erdogan has no control at all over his borders, and Turkish refineries are acting behind his back.

You make oil supply in the Middle East sound so simple. It's a shame it isn't, everything would be so much easier.

 

[mister dog]

You make oil supply in the Middle East sound so simple. It's a shame it isn't, everything would be so much easier.

Vote mister dog for regional dictator.

 

[ECGadget]

@mister dog if that is the case, the crime does not lie with Erdogan, and we cannot incriminate someone falsely. We've ended up doing that far too many times in history whilst the actual criminals remain free, sometimes never caught. Shame it isn't that easy though.

 

[jimipitbull]

The Russians already gave their proof with satellite images of oil trucks crossing the border:

https://www.rt.com/news/324303-isis-oil-routes-turkey/

Russians have been known to photoshop images. Where are the videos?

 

[mister dog]

@mister dog if that is the case, the crime does not lie with Erdogan, and we cannot incriminate someone falsely.

The dude has a tight grip on his country lately, so there's no reason to say he isn't involved in the whole oil trade business running through his territory neither. All i'm saying is i wouldn't be surprised if he were

 

[ECGadget]

The dude has a tight grip on his country lately, so there's no reason to say he isn't involved in the whole oil trade business running through his territory neither. All i'm saying is i wouldn't be surprised if he were

That I can understand, yes!
Mister dog to take over as PM

 

[Rage Racer]

Russians have been known to photoshop images. Where are the videos?

Lemme guess, you're talking about that MH17 pic picked up by some Russian media from some internet forum, then picked up on the West with "haha, look at this!"?

But you simply generalize it to "Russians photoshop images" without keeping in mind (or knowing at all) that none of Russian officials claimed this as evidence anywhere. Had the RF Ministry of Defence revealed anything that is proven to be photoshopped?

And if you ask for a video, here it is. Unless you suggest it was made in Source Filmmaker or something.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Let's not forget that Turkey has Article V in its back pocket. Any attack on that particular supply line and Turkey could invoke it, regardless of a, the facts and b, who really attacked it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I still only see oil trucks crossing the border of a country that buys a lot of oil (and that requires faith that we're seeing exactly that, I don't know the border). Given what we already know (Da'esh make money feeding the many-years-old black market) where is Putin's proof that Erdogan trades directly with Da'esh? It isn't in that video.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I still only see oil trucks crossing the border of a country that buys a lot of oil (and that requires faith that we're seeing exactly that, I don't know the border). Given what we already know (Da'esh make money feeding the many-years-old black market) where is Putin's proof that Erdogan trades directly with Da'esh? It isn't in that video.

Its on the same page that has proof of Assad ethnically cleansing people.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Its on the same page that has proof of Assad ethnically cleansing people.

No, that was the UN report set that referred to Assad - if you recall you didn't want to read through it. This is something separate.

 

[DK]

Do we know where exactly those trucks were crossing the border? Were they crossing over from Da'esh territory?

 

[jimipitbull]

Perhaps Turkey is selling zamzam to Da'esh. Those trucks could be empty, on their way back to the depot.

 

[VolkswagenX]

No, that was the UN report set that referred to Assad - if you recall you didn't want to read through it. This is something separate.

I read through it, what you claimed is not there.

 

[unit-one]

Where are the reports of huge oil fires from those destroyed tankers?

Bombing a water plant and grain silos:





Although this may be accidental. iunno.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You'll never get direct evidence of first hand knowledge on the part of Erdogan. Any politician worth his salt is going to have fall guys lined up from here to Istanbul. At best you'll get some circumstantial evidence that'll point to no one and everyone at the same time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You'll never get direct evidence of first hand knowledge on the part of Erdogan. Any politician worth his salt is going to have fall guys lined up from here to Istanbul. At best you'll get some circumstantial evidence that'll point to no one and everyone at the same time.

This is my point, Putin is making a claim that falls down at the [Citation Required] stage. Very un-GTP!

 

[x3ra]

I still only see oil trucks crossing the border of a country that buys a lot of oil (and that requires faith that we're seeing exactly that, I don't know the border). Given what we already know (Da'esh make money feeding the many-years-old black market) where is Putin's proof that Erdogan trades directly with Da'esh? It isn't in that video.

Totally agree. No proof whatsoever.

I'll tell you what is absolutely outstanding. Any person involved in this thread has the intelligence to know that SOMEONE was buying the oil that DAESH was selling, and also that if they were really bothered, then they would know who was buying it. They weren't bothered. Simple as that. Daesh suited them.

Since oil is a 'hardware' then there would be very few countries that it could pass through.

And if Turkey aren't the middlemen, then who is?