The war on ISIS.
- Thread starter mister dog
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- KCCO
15 minutes is now 47 minutes... I mean, A+ for effort.
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I assumed that there was a cool backstory of a Jew that had infiltrated an Islamist group and was trying to bring it down from the inside.
* Fake quote.
- 61
- Norway
This lady, former canadian model, says the ISIS guys are a disappointment, and she is fighting against them. She also says Turkey is the main enemy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/canadian-model-about-fighting-isis-2015-12
Take a mirror and admire what corporate media is doing to you.
Good night and stay scared!
http://www.businessinsider.com/canadian-model-about-fighting-isis-2015-12
Take a mirror and admire what corporate media is doing to you.
Good night and stay scared!
- 29,154
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Can you sum up what you mean by that? Without watching the full 47 minute video, I can safely say that 'the ISIS issue' probably goes far beyond anything Sen. Paul may or may not have argued for or against.
From memory, both Sen. Paul and his famous father have questioned the wisdom of getting involved in civil conflicts, esp. if it means providing either direct or tacit support for groups that are just as bad as the intended enemy - the al-Nusra front in Syria for example..
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/a...is-despite-opposition-islamic-state-976490550
Anyway, a little more detail as to what you meant would be handy, since it is not at all clear.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
The funding of Syrian Rebels to fight Assad, He was against it.
No, what you need to topple is the House of Saud from the Arabian peninsula and institute either a transitional government with the help of Iran (overwatched by a UN composed Islamic overwatch international coalition), as you know that no non-muslim can't put a foot on holy land in Mecca and Medina.
Saudi-Arabia government is basically a lineage of the family of Ibn Saud, the richest people on the world who happen to have control of both the main oil production in the middle east, as well as many of the US-Saudi oil enterprises, helping them found ISIS as a way to overflow the market with cheap oil as well as creating church-based proxy governments and organizations, using Wahhabism as a way to control extremists and control oil prices, hence the austerity measures and the slowing down consumerism.
Initially I thought that ISIS were a group who emerge due to the violence in 2003, but in reality they are part of sectarian groups that follow a central directive given by Saudis (Like Osama Bin Laden), is likely that these directives are given from Riyadh, then these directives are transmitted through transport hubs (like Abu Dhabi, with the largest airport in the middle east, which has a free economic zone to do any kind of transaction in Dubai and probably building a new one in Abu Dhabi in cooperation with UAE government assistance).
So, ISIS or the related influential churches of Islam were always under the control of the House of Saud since the British left the Arabian Peninsula, they were supported by the Turkish as Ottoman Empire was still on war with the British Empire around 30 to 40 years before the de-colonization process, during the 30 to 40 years the Saud lineage gain more control of institution as sons and brothers of the same tribal family diversify, they were allowed to have multiple childs and multiple children (mind you, King Abdullah is also known to have 144 sons, due to Salafist marriage arrangement rules).
So, in the 1950's both the Saud and the US created a joint venture to create Aramco, nowadays valued in 10 Trillion Dollars, owners of the land are Sauds (not the Arabian people) and the US, and they have the largest oil production capacity in the world, this grants the house of Saud to do anything as they have the basically control of the industrial sector in the US, as they have the power to control the oil flow to fuel such industries (hence Bush family interest in the region), and hence why they haven't had a spotlight on what happens there for the last 40 years.
If people really want to eradicate ISIS, they need to do it from it's source (the house of Saud), and due to the religion and regional circumstances the only available force that can help realize such endeavour is Iran, hence the US and international interest in helping them defeat this problem:
The kings and royal families within the Arabian Peninsula (Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait and the House of Saud) need to be toppled, either constitutional monarchies need to be instituted, or do what the French did and just kill them (and yes, we need to either kill them, or capture them and left them somewhere where they can't be free or have contact with the world), the hypocrisy of the west cannot continue anymore, for the US money is god, and since the Saudis have ALL the money they Saudis have effectively become their gods for them, given the circumstances this cannot continue and the general population in the west are slowly realizing this.
As difficult as it seems Iran is the only country that can make this possible, the French have realized this and now they are trading weapons with them, the proxy wars within them cannot continue, the Shia and Sunni population on the gulf states need to be freed from the Saud ruling class, by any means necessary if we want to stop this war.
Sorry but the results of this would be much worse than currently it's. How about we actually start bothering about what's happening in Yemen, Syria...etc? Everyone seems to think ISIS is the only problem when you got Assad, houthis, hezballah, Muslim brotherhood, Iran, Daesh...etc? Why support Assad when he's the one who started murdering, air striking his citizens and made them flee their country in fear? Daesh are no difference ether. Making Iran go and invade the whole Arab peninsula is my biggest fear of all. It won't stop the sunni / shia war, it will make it WORSE! And also civilians will be wiped out and then even more death and refugees escaping the whole mess. Yes, I don't like being with the government for number of reasons nether a lot of other people but in this case, I had to...for my nation and our citizens. I don't want to witness my family's death in front of my eyes and see my home getting destroyed. Just seeing my last moment in my live in a horrible ruined land full of chaos with Army's surrounding me willing to kill me for being not part of their race, religion or nation.
At the end, something similar to Daesh will exist once again because of what happened.
At the end, something similar to Daesh will exist once again because of what happened.
Persian gulf kingdoms and al-Sauds need to go, they are far too radical and too extremist to keep population in check without wide spreading violence. They will never adopt a UK style constitutional monarchy, they will just crush opposing sectors of the population resulting in more violence (which is ironic, because both the UK and US still sells them weapons, but whatever, they have demonstrated to be as bad, or worse, than Assad).
Either Arabia becomes a democratic state (Or the Republic of Arabia, or it will divide in 4 countries given the demographical distribution), or they go to war with Iran. There is no other exit but war, unless they capture all Al-Saud and associates worldwide to find the real sources of the oil money, or to stop them harbouring more money to control states and fund militants.
I live in a country in a state of civil war for the last nearly 60 years, every country has to go through that because dictatorships, monopolies control and the lack of separation between Church-State, parts of what made ISIS, which practically became a threat to the whole world. For 50 years a small group of people had the control of most of the fuel in the whole world, and right now is pretty obvious that letting an individual hoard crazy amount of resources generally ends up with people like Abu Bakr, Bin Laden and even Saddam (when the US and Arabs were supporting them during the Iraq-Irani war).
That is the counteracting effect of the 2011 spring, it wiped out dictators, leaders and now kings, that is the inevitability of war given what the Wahhabists had become, they are new Nazi ideology that needs to be wiped out and consign to history books, so these errors of accumulation of capital and resources by small groups of people stop.
And yes, I believe Iran should go to war with the kingdoms of the persian gulf to stopple the ultra rich families supporting ISIS, they are insane:
Either Arabia becomes a democratic state (Or the Republic of Arabia, or it will divide in 4 countries given the demographical distribution), or they go to war with Iran. There is no other exit but war, unless they capture all Al-Saud and associates worldwide to find the real sources of the oil money, or to stop them harbouring more money to control states and fund militants.
I live in a country in a state of civil war for the last nearly 60 years, every country has to go through that because dictatorships, monopolies control and the lack of separation between Church-State, parts of what made ISIS, which practically became a threat to the whole world. For 50 years a small group of people had the control of most of the fuel in the whole world, and right now is pretty obvious that letting an individual hoard crazy amount of resources generally ends up with people like Abu Bakr, Bin Laden and even Saddam (when the US and Arabs were supporting them during the Iraq-Irani war).
That is the counteracting effect of the 2011 spring, it wiped out dictators, leaders and now kings, that is the inevitability of war given what the Wahhabists had become, they are new Nazi ideology that needs to be wiped out and consign to history books, so these errors of accumulation of capital and resources by small groups of people stop.
And yes, I believe Iran should go to war with the kingdoms of the persian gulf to stopple the ultra rich families supporting ISIS, they are insane:
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- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
As much as you think they need to go, because yes they are quite terrible. A war will not resolve anything as proven with every war thats basically happened in this area.
The best thing that can be done here is for the western countries to completely cut ''aid'' to any and all of these governments, and let them do it themselves.
By getting involved all your doing is putting your own national security at risk for something that won't help the Country your taking sides with.
This area is filled with Religious extremists groups that are ready to take whats left of a collapse and give them selves a Massive power boost that puts everyone at risk.
The problem is alot of the damage is already done, and groups such as ISIL are now a threat to everyone outside these areas, and it all comes down to the fact they where ready to take advantage of a wounded power.
Many of these rebel groups in Syria that the west had been funding to topple Assad have been merging with ISIL, because they align with their ideology and it gives them more chance to grow power and this all just expands the problem for everyone.
Using conventional tactics in the middle east is a fools game and it always was, this place is not like anything anyone outside this area has dealt with before.
Not to mention if you go through the full history of the Wests involvement in these areas post WW2 you can see this was basically all created by the West in the first place, Why do you think the Saudis have soo much power?
The Gulf war, Iraq War, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel & Palestine, Egypt. You go back enough on all these Wars and Problem areas and it all stems from the West, in the from of ''Aid/Assistance/Control''.
The Soviets/Russians are what I would blame in the long term for what is happening with the Assad regime combined with the Wests created Mess ISIL.
Alot of it is actually a Delayed after effect of the Cold War.
The best thing that can be done here is for the western countries to completely cut ''aid'' to any and all of these governments, and let them do it themselves.
By getting involved all your doing is putting your own national security at risk for something that won't help the Country your taking sides with.
This area is filled with Religious extremists groups that are ready to take whats left of a collapse and give them selves a Massive power boost that puts everyone at risk.
The problem is alot of the damage is already done, and groups such as ISIL are now a threat to everyone outside these areas, and it all comes down to the fact they where ready to take advantage of a wounded power.
Many of these rebel groups in Syria that the west had been funding to topple Assad have been merging with ISIL, because they align with their ideology and it gives them more chance to grow power and this all just expands the problem for everyone.
Using conventional tactics in the middle east is a fools game and it always was, this place is not like anything anyone outside this area has dealt with before.
Not to mention if you go through the full history of the Wests involvement in these areas post WW2 you can see this was basically all created by the West in the first place, Why do you think the Saudis have soo much power?
The Gulf war, Iraq War, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel & Palestine, Egypt. You go back enough on all these Wars and Problem areas and it all stems from the West, in the from of ''Aid/Assistance/Control''.
The Soviets/Russians are what I would blame in the long term for what is happening with the Assad regime combined with the Wests created Mess ISIL.
Alot of it is actually a Delayed after effect of the Cold War.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
IMO, the absence of secular democracies and free elections is the reason the middle east is in the state it is in. So long as you have dictators, kings, family dynasties and whatever running the show, the middle east will remain pretty much the way it is now and the various powers that be, Russia, China, U.S. etc. will attempt to buy favour and influence with whomever is in charge. It's pretty easy to justify invading when a brutal dictator is running the show, a lot harder when a country is truly democratic and run by the people's elected representatives.
They are already in power, it sounds ridiculous but western media never, ever shows anything about the Arabian Peninsula.
The King in Saudi Arabia must respond by theocratic decree to this person, by ideological principle he must obey what he says (him being one of the elders whom they need to respond to), which also happens to be the same person who holds enough Islamic "church" power to issue holy wars, like the ones Osama and Abu Bakr were following when they themselves thought they have the power.
I think the US kinda wants to solve this issue, Iran sanctions were finally lifted and they are arming themselves and probably rival groups against ISIS, now that they know who to trust given the turmoil.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
3'000.000 Slave workers from Bangladesh and India in Dubai, not to mention the ones imported from North Korea for the world cup.
About 100 people beheaded for not following Sharia Law (minor offenses in the US, most of the times not even that).
The Civil War in Yemen (that's not real .... oh wait, it is).
You will never see that in a western media outlet exposes this, specially stuff about the Emirates before of the 2020 world cup, and the Formula 1 GPs located in the region, not to mention the other business ventures that happen there, which also happens to involve human trafficking.
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- KCCO
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- mustafur
Look up the history, Syria used to be a democracy until the a Soviets funded the Regime which become the current Assad regime.
Iran was Basically self created from America from what they did in the 60s and 70s.
And Saudis have soo much power because America has been funding them and supporting their interests for soo long.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
I'm sorry but I think you have next to no idea the full scale of what's happening on the ground here.
As much as you may hate the Saudi royal family how comfortable would you be with a group like ISIL taking what's left and having that kind of power?
Cutting Aid to all these Areas would mostly rebalance the power in the long term.
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- 4,572
- Moscow
- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
Meanwhile, there's a terrorist attack in Damascus taking over 60 lives.
Nobody gives a **** as usual, because it's dictator Assad's problem.
Nobody gives a **** as usual, because it's dictator Assad's problem.
- 31,545
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Same goes for Africa and Boko Haram.
Or maybe because the place has been crapsack in the first place.
Remind you that Syria is already in ISIS title.
Which is ironic because ...
They all have that kind of power, the King responds to the cleric who send funds to ISIS because they are Sunni extremists, and ISIS themselves respond to the cleric.
All the slaves that ISIS control probably end up in India, or Pakistan or the Peninsula itself, so there is no point in defeating ISIS in Syria because they will never be defeated given the climate. ISIS are a junction of terrorists cells and the only thing cells need to spread is resources; if they can get oil, or slaves, or tax the population, or receive money from the Saudis they will continue to operate, maybe in Iran, maybe in Egypt, or maybe in Jordan, or in Africa, or in Asia, or even in Europe and America if things continue to degrade.
The Saudi problem is not going to sort out itself, and they have far too much money and too many ideological religious ideas to manage that kind of power, this relates to the concept that the capital system is failing, the Saudis have far too many basic industrial resources to control oil prices and control economies, and is good until every country has to go with austerity measures to counter the effect of the fluctuating oil prices.
People with the kind of capital that the Emirates and Saudis have cannot exist, the capitalist model failed as most of the world's economy is being managed by the people who have the greatest amount of capital, despite the fact that they are murderers, slavists and all around psychopaths (and is not a Muslim thing, is an extremist Sunni problem, with links to the top 10 elders and clerics in Arabia who are clearly insane and have too much power in their hands).
That is just nonsense, they used up a lot of resources to get ISIS into economic submission. Iranians, Russians and now even the French are assisting each other to defeat ISIS, most of the problems with the UK and US governments are related to the pretension that they know what's really going on, and take stupid decisions like the ones in 2001.
The only thing that is effectively working against ISIS have been the Russian air strikes that disrupted the funding chain, and the ground war that is been fought, the US have been terribly stupid in handling this manner, but I understand them given that the Saudis control large sectors of that economy (US banks also have Saudi money, for leasing and lending funds used by people in the US).
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- mustafur
The problem is your looking back 10 years im looking back 60 and adding everything else inbetween.
There is no direct evidence that Saudis money is going directly into ISIL, however there is for Sunni Rebel groups deemed as Moderates, the same groups Funded by the west as well(to fight Assad see the video i posted at the top of this page for proof).
When these groups inevitably join ISIL as their influence is too weak or they where possibly a hidden front for ISIL in the first place, that same money is now funding ISIL.
Yes I understand what your saying but your laughing if you think this is a purely Saudi agenda.
There is no direct evidence that Saudis money is going directly into ISIL, however there is for Sunni Rebel groups deemed as Moderates, the same groups Funded by the west as well(to fight Assad see the video i posted at the top of this page for proof).
When these groups inevitably join ISIL as their influence is too weak or they where possibly a hidden front for ISIL in the first place, that same money is now funding ISIL.
Yes I understand what your saying but your laughing if you think this is a purely Saudi agenda.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
The government of Syria was first overthrown in 1949 by a military coup funded by the CIA. Regardless of past history, the answer is, and always will be, democracy. So long as the region is dominated by monotheistic states run by unelected dictators who answer to no one but themselves and highly radicalized clergy, the region will be in chaos. Equal rights for all, free elections and secular governments are the way forward.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
So the solution is to invade and take over then right?
The CIA and Britian are basically the ones responsible for Syria losing democracy in the first place the Soviets then established what we have now(and as you can see Russia still supports the regime as you can see with this conflict).
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- 28,470
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- Johnnypenso
