The wife caved, I can have my sports car!

  • Thread starter JCE
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JCE
I feel I should point out before I continue I like German cars more than just about anything else and don't think I'm not a bit irritated that pre-owned ones are either a time bomb or fantastic--and there would be almost no way to tell past what I just mentioned if I would get a lemon or not. If I knew with even a 75% certainty that I could get a reliable pre-owned Merc I WOULD JUMP ALL OVER IT. I just don't feel confident on the previous owners of these luxury cars ability to have them maintained. The local Mercedes dealer would need to show me records of the previous owner bringing in the car for it's routine maintenance and give it a clean bill of health before I'd consider it. This goes for Audi, BMW and Jaguar as well. I hope that clears up why the Europeans aren't on my list.:D
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So let me get this straight? For a European car you demand a full service record, but for any other car you just take the gamble? That's stupid, you need to demand a full service record for any car! On top of that, if you suspect the car has needed maintenance coming, demand the seller has it done before you buy it, or the price gets lowered by the amount it would cost for you to pay for it yourself. If not, go to a different dealer/seller.

Also, I think the percentage of well-maintained vehicles under luxury cars is higher than cheaper cars, since people that spend a lot of their hard-earned cash on a car usually maintain it well as well. Exactly the opposite applies for people that go for cheap. Where the car comes from (Europe, Japan, or whatever) has no impact on owner behaviour.
 
NLxAROSA
So let me get this straight? For a European car you demand a full service record, but for any other car you just take the gamble? That's stupid, you need to demand a full service record for any car! On top of that, if you suspect the car has needed maintenance coming, demand the seller has it done before you buy it, or the price gets lowered by the amount it would cost for you to pay for it yourself. If not, go to a different dealer/seller.

Also, I think the percentage of well-maintained vehicles under luxury cars is higher than cheaper cars, since people that spend a lot of their hard-earned cash on a car usually maintain it well as well. Exactly the opposite applies for people that go for cheap. Where the car comes from (Europe, Japan, or whatever) has no impact on owner behaviour.
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I think his point was that most of these European cars will be more expensive to maintain/fix over here, especially if they already have a history of problems. I would imagine he'd get a history report for any car if possible but was just showing extra concern in these cases.

Also, those Mercs and BMW's are just status symbols to most people, and just because they cost more does not mean in any way that they have been treated better or maintained better. Maybe since most of the original owners had to lease them to afford they might have gotten free scheduled maintainence from the dealers but otherwise.... I know plenty of people at work who have very nice cars and they just beat the hell out of them because they are too busy to care. I take better care of my 2003 mazda 6 than most of them take care of their $50,000+ cars.
 
dchPSUone
I know plenty of people at work who have very nice cars and they just beat the hell out of them because they are too busy to care. I take better care of my 2003 mazda 6 than most of them take care of their $50,000+ cars.
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And I know more people where it's the exact opposite. Hence my remark: always ask for full service record and demand that any soon-needed maintenance is done beforehand. If the seller refuses, you know you should look elsewhere. Regardless of car brand/origin.

I do understand why one would object to cars that require parts that are scarce or have to be flown in for maintenance, that could potentially bleed you dry.
 
I would take a Z over a G. Why? With the G you gain 3 things; a backseat, a nicer interior, and weight. The backseat is pretty cramped. A '06+ Z isn't exactly a bad place to be. All that weight is bad, and means you sacrifice acceleration and handling for a useless backseat and nicer leather.
 
The G35's back seat may be cramped, but it's good for cargo. I believe the trunk is bigger too. It may not be good for people, but it's good for stuff.
 
NLxAROSA
So let me get this straight? For a European car you demand a full service record, but for any other car you just take the gamble? That's stupid, you need to demand a full service record for any car! On top of that, if you suspect the car has needed maintenance coming, demand the seller has it done before you buy it, or the price gets lowered by the amount it would cost for you to pay for it yourself. If not, go to a different dealer/seller.
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I of course want as much of a service record as I can get for any prospective vehicle before purchase. I was simply explaining my position regarding my statement for European pre-owned cars. :)

Also, I think the percentage of well-maintained vehicles under luxury cars is higher than cheaper cars, since people that spend a lot of their hard-earned cash on a car usually maintain it well as well. Exactly the opposite applies for people that go for cheap. Where the car comes from (Europe, Japan, or whatever) has no impact on owner behaviour.
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That may be true over the pond but around here--especially locally--this is not the case very often. These cars are often leased but that doesn't generally mean they were serviced and or not driven into the ground more or less than the others. I in fact do see more BMW 3-series, C-class Mercs, A4 Audis and S-Type Jags that were treated poorly in their lifetimes. The people that generally buy these are younger professionals who want that "taste of luxury" but do not think about the cost of maintaining such vehicles so they generally aren't as well maintained as the next model up. Even then that doesn't exclude the E-class, 5-series, A6 or XJ from being neglected. It is part of the American culture to live beyond your means, and that's one of the reasons why we are in this depression to begin with. :(

dchPSUone
Also, those Mercs and BMW's are just status symbols to most people, and just because they cost more does not mean in any way that they have been treated better or maintained better. Maybe since most of the original owners had to lease them to afford they might have gotten free scheduled maintainence from the dealers but otherwise.... I know plenty of people at work who have very nice cars and they just beat the hell out of them because they are too busy to care. I take better care of my 2003 mazda 6 than most of them take care of their $50,000+ cars.
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Quite my thoughts exactly. :D

Bones Brigade
I would take a Z over a G. Why? With the G you gain 3 things; a backseat, a nicer interior, and weight. The backseat is pretty cramped. A '06+ Z isn't exactly a bad place to be. All that weight is bad, and means you sacrifice acceleration and handling for a useless backseat and nicer leather.
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Hmmm, need to consider the added weight thing affecting acceleration. "Nicer" leather and backseat to me isn't a selling point. :) So I agree with your assessment. Still, either one are a very nice place to be, eh?

12thgear
The G35's back seat may be cramped, but it's good for cargo. I believe the trunk is bigger too. It may not be good for people, but it's good for stuff.
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Our second car can be for "cargo" and screw the boot. I've rarely used the boot on my own cars. :lol:
 
Can't believe I forgot to mention the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Spec.B.
Regular 2.5GT would be ok as well but with the spec B you get the 6spd manual and the DCCD from the STI.
 
eSZee
Can't believe I forgot to mention the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Spec.B.
Regular 2.5GT would be ok as well but with the spec B you get the 6spd manual and the DCCD from the STI.
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Above his price range. They still go for around $20K with 70K miles.
 
eSZee
Damn, yeah, you're right.
No Spec B unless you try the various private sales on various subaru boards.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...e=b&num_records=25&cardist=233&standard=false

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...e=b&num_records=25&cardist=244&standard=false
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While I love my mom's Legacy for it's comfort, and relatively good MPGs (She has a 2.5 Limited, not 2.5GT) I don't think even the 2.5GT is as "sporty" as the other cars he's listed. While the steering is direct, there isn't much feel at all and I don't think the suspension was upgraded much from the 2.5 to 2.5GT. However it's a great mix of comfort and commendable handling in the limited trims. (I can't speak for non-limited models) He could still drive a 2.5GT or 3.0R and see how he likes them. The 3.0R is only available with the 5spd auto, but that flat-6 sounds sweet.
 
What's the acceleration like on those Legacies? I do enjoy the exterior styling and I am confident they would be reliable (prove me wrong?).

The Spec.B is rare down here and easily goes for over $20k. The 2.5GT Limited runs a healthy $17-19k depending on mileage. 3.0R models run over $20k. Hate to say it but I think WRX and STI models are easier to come by. *shrugs*
 
I've seen Legacy GTs for around 15k with decent mileage. I've never driven one bit it was compared favorably to the MS6 and S60R.
 
Bones Brigade
I've seen Legacy GTs for around 15k with decent mileage. I've never driven one bit it was compared favorably to the MS6 and S60R.
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Oh really? I will do some research and see about a test drive. :D

sumbrownkid
I don't know about getting a Corvette in auto.

It's like getting a gun, and its only firing blanks...
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I disagree, I've driven an automatic C5 Vette and it was no slouch. 0-60 in 5s or so is nothing to sneeze at. 👍
 
He's probably trying to say that a Vette should only be driven with 3 pedals.

I'm sure the take rate on the third pedal is around 10% or less. The only Vettes with a high percentage take rate on manuals are the Z06 and ZR1...because there is no auto.

With some cars, like a Z for instance, I may agree. But a Vette is a Vette. No one really cares about the transmission because it's a Corvette. Sure, I wouldn't get an auto Corvette, but there are many other cars where it is far more ludicrous to opt for the slushy. For instance, small hatchbacks and economy cars.
 
JCE
I disagree, I've driven an automatic C5 Vette and it was no slouch. 0-60 in 5s or so is nothing to sneeze at. 👍
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An auto C5 (as quick as they still are surprisingly), I'd have to say just doesn't sit right with me either & they don't appear to be quite as quick as a Corvette should be.

I've driven a couple C5s myself because apart of me really, really wants one & personally, the autos seem slow to me. I'm not saying the car itself is slow, but in contrast to a manual Corvette, they just don't feel anywhere as fast. There's some "pep" to them yes, but the manuals just seem to really throw the power down much better.

Now, I will admit that I probably have this warped view because it has been a long time since I actually drove an auto C5. Back then, I drove the auto first & then the manual. But unfortunately, I can't really remember how much quicker that base C5 manual was in comparison b/c now when I read, "manual Corvette", all I can think of are the 2 Z06s I've driven this year that just erased any memory of the manual C5.

So, I guess it's not a completely fair viewpoint, but I just have to stick with my gut feeling that an automatic Corvette just doesn't seem right. Like a 5.0 GT, it just strikes me as a car you have to buy in manual because of "raw" V8 power.

If you're not after power though, & just want the car itself as a whole package, then who am I to tell you what transmission to buy. :)
 
If you're not tracking the car, the differences between an auto and manual aren't worth speaking about. If he wants an auto, trying to convince him that it's a bad idea simply doesn't make sense. There's nothing wrong with automatic anythings.
 
Somehow... I've never felt bad about driving big engines with automatics. Obviously... the manuals are faster, but there's a lot of fun in doing a burnout like a boss, with your right hand on the wheel and your left elbow hooked over the windowsill... getting caked in burnt rubber...

Manuals are for the times you're booking it on the racetrack or down the backroads... and given the fact that a Maxima was on that list and it still includes an F150, an M45 and a Charger... I doubt that this will be an out-and-out trackster... more like the car he's going to drive when he's not flogging the nuts off the Focus. :D
 
I would get the Charger Daytona , because you would get a double look driving down the street , but i think it would be hard to find one other than E Bay , and it could be bad off E Bay
 
atomicnmd
I would get the Charger Daytona , because you would get a double look driving down the street , but i think it would be hard to find one other than E Bay , and it could be bad off E Bay
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They are hard to find, very hard. Those are some bad ass cars, I love the way they look and sound. Don't care for the interior but then again as long as it's comfy, fast and has a good radio who cares right? :lol:

niky
Somehow... I've never felt bad about driving big engines with automatics. Obviously... the manuals are faster, but there's a lot of fun in doing a burnout like a boss, with your right hand on the wheel and your left elbow hooked over the windowsill... getting caked in burnt rubber...

Manuals are for the times you're booking it on the racetrack or down the backroads... and given the fact that a Maxima was on that list and it still includes an F150, an M45 and a Charger... I doubt that this will be an out-and-out trackster... more like the car he's going to drive when he's not flogging the nuts off the Focus. :D
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One of the things I liked most about my Camaro when I drove it daily was simply leaving it in gear and just stomping on the accelerator and basking in the wondrous V8 rumble. While our RX-8 is hideously slow I do enjoy taking it to the corner store to pickup some milk or ice cream. Put it in D and cruise.

And keep in mind I'm selling the SVT Focus at the first available opportunity that I can have that will break me even on my depreciation. :D

McLaren
An auto C5 (as quick as they still are surprisingly), I'd have to say just doesn't sit right with me either & they don't appear to be quite as quick as a Corvette should be.

I've driven a couple C5s myself because apart of me really, really wants one & personally, the autos seem slow to me. I'm not saying the car itself is slow, but in contrast to a manual Corvette, they just don't feel anywhere as fast. There's some "pep" to them yes, but the manuals just seem to really throw the power down much better.

Now, I will admit that I probably have this warped view because it has been a long time since I actually drove an auto C5. Back then, I drove the auto first & then the manual. But unfortunately, I can't really remember how much quicker that base C5 manual was in comparison b/c now when I read, "manual Corvette", all I can think of are the 2 Z06s I've driven this year that just erased any memory of the manual C5.

So, I guess it's not a completely fair viewpoint, but I just have to stick with my gut feeling that an automatic Corvette just doesn't seem right. Like a 5.0 GT, it just strikes me as a car you have to buy in manual because of "raw" V8 power.

If you're not after power though, & just want the car itself as a whole package, then who am I to tell you what transmission to buy. :)
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I appreciate your insight and opinion. I believe having an automatic attached to an American V8 is almost "classic". I can remember my dad talking about racing scene back in the 60's and plenty of those were autos. BTW, just buy a C5 with me and get it over with!! Popup headlights FTMFW!!!

02-corvette-3.jpg


Like you alluded to I'm not really big on extreme power and speed. Just some noise and speed while in some comfort. You should drive a C5 auto, it really isn't that bad. Just forget about Z06's when driving it. :lol:

That and they will be monstrously faster than my Focus.

Bones Brigade
He's probably trying to say that a Vette should only be driven with 3 pedals.

I'm sure the take rate on the third pedal is around 10% or less. The only Vettes with a high percentage take rate on manuals are the Z06 and ZR1...because there is no auto.

With some cars, like a Z for instance, I may agree. But a Vette is a Vette. No one really cares about the transmission because it's a Corvette. Sure, I wouldn't get an auto Corvette, but there are many other cars where it is far more ludicrous to opt for the slushy. For instance, small hatchbacks and economy cars.
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Let me ask you this. If you wanted to cruise and relax why would you get a manual? I don't care too much about squeezing out another half second of 0-60 times and being just a bit faster. :D. Now, some of my choices have only a manual--for those I just need to determine when the time comes if I would be able to live with it for years.

ShobThaBob
If you're not tracking the car, the differences between an auto and manual aren't worth speaking about. If he wants an auto, trying to convince him that it's a bad idea simply doesn't make sense. There's nothing wrong with automatic anythings.
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I tend to agree that automatics more often then not get a bad rap. They are perfectly acceptable, my Camaro is an automatic and I loved driving it. :D
 
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Off Topic: I drove the Daytona off the lot HOLY 🤬 that thing is fast. Too bad it was out of my pric range! Got a challenger now. Good Luck on the hunt!
 
I noticed you said almost anything European, but would you not consider an BMW E39 M5?
Another suggestion (probably ridicule this) is the Mercedes CL600? lol It's quite a car for the money but I guess you may not be looking for that kind of old serious guy image :P
What about a Porsche Boxster or BMW Z4? If not that then Japanese alternative of Honda S2000
I'm just making sure you haven't overlooked some great cars, but I think you'll probably won't be interested in my suggestions, but I'm just trying to help.
Otherwise I'd recommend the Subaru Impreza WRX, great car but the interior isn't the best of cars..
 
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All right, I’ll try not to make this long but here’s my personal ownership experience with Fbodies. I’m currently on my second Fbody and my first was a pewter ’00 Trans Am WS6 which I owned for approximately 3 years or so before losing it in a car accident. My current Fbody is coincidentally a navy blue metallic ’01 Trans Am WS6 which I’ve owned now for almost 3 years now. I’m not going to go into detail but if you have any questions I’ll try to answer them to the best of my ability. If I don’t know the answer then I’ll try to direct you in the right direction. First we’ll start with the cons, followed by the pros.

Cons
Tight engine compartment in addition to part of the motor being shoved under the cowl, which makes it difficult to do a simple task such as changing spark plugs.
Plastic door panels: I don’t think this is an issue with the Camaro’s but the top portion of these door panels tend to crack. If you’re able to find a Firebird/Firehawk/Trans Am that doesn’t have this issue then consider yourself very luck.
10 Bolt Rearend: what more can I say about this glass jaw of a rearend. When you actually start making some good power i.e. 400rwhp, consider your rearend on borrowed time because these things can’t handle the abuse. Hell, there are people who have actually broken these with their car in stock form.

Pros
LS1’s are no slouch, and are a good bang for the buck if you’re looking at getting an older car to modify. It doesn’t take much to get 400 rwhp out of these and they’ll keep up with just about all of the modern muscle cars.
Appearance wise, there isn’t anything else like it on the road. It’s funny seeing how many aftermarket companies have duplicated the Ram Air hood and made it available for Trucks, SUVs, and various other vehicles.
T-Tops, need I say more?
Lastly, these cars are unique and you won’t find anything else like them on the road.
 
JCE
Let me ask you this. If you wanted to cruise and relax why would you get a manual? I don't care too much about squeezing out another half second of 0-60 times and being just a bit faster. :D. Now, some of my choices have only a manual--for those I just need to determine when the time comes if I would be able to live with it for years.

I tend to agree that automatics more often then not get a bad rap. They are perfectly acceptable, my Camaro is an automatic and I loved driving it. :D
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I was only suggesting what the other guys underlying thought might have been.

I dont have a problem with autos, and to answer your question, I would get a Volvo S80.
 

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