The World's Best Car

[Dave A]

I can afford the mortgage on my house, but I couldn't afford my house. People can't afford houses these days, they get mortgages and loans, that's not affording thats borrowing. If I could slap a quarter of a million pounds on the table and say I'll buy that house today, cash. Then I could afford it. Being able to afford to borrow is a different matter all together. When you buy a car you can ofcourse buy a car on finance, but again that's not affording it, that's borrowing. Anyone can get a loan, that's not affording something.

 

[El Jarretto]

Nothing stands in the way of the Hyundai Tiburon! Nothing! I voted for the 911, it's an amazing car that still brings competition to the track to today. Although I'll give the Miata a thumbsup, it's an affordable small roadster with a small engine for efficiencies and can be made into an awesome auto-x car or even a track car.

 

[Famine]

You missed my point, my boy.

I'm older than you... I can only be your boy if you were a Time Lord.

I used a house as an example of an item that can be purchased when you don't have the money to purchase the item outright, making the point that things that aren't "affordable" can indeed be within reach. I wasn't using the house as a comparison to the Corvette - just saying that people frequently go into debt to buy things they can't afford, in order to counter your statement which outright dismissed the possibility that anyone can afford a Corvette.

My statement did nothing of the sort. I pointed out that a Corvette, at a cost of an annual wage, cannot be considered "affordable" when, as I went on to explain, the average new car bought is generally lower in price than a Corvette - and that doesn't even take into account the used car market.

 

[1X83Z]

My statement did nothing of the sort. I pointed out that a Corvette, at a cost of an annual wage, cannot be considered "affordable" when, as I went on to explain, the average new car bought is generally lower in price than a Corvette - and that doesn't even take into account the used car market.

You statement was:

a car which costs that much cannot possibly be "affordable".

If that's not an outright dismissal of affordability, I'm not sure what is. Either way - we agree that the vehicle is affordable relative to the price of its rivals, at least in the place where it matters (its home and largest market).

Which should read "It is incorrectly regarded as the first affordable automobile, the car which put America on wheels."

Excuse me?

 

[Famine]

You statement was:

a car which costs that much cannot possibly be "affordable".

If that's not an outright dismissal of affordability, I'm not sure what is.

It is. But what it isn't is:

your statement which outright dismissed the possibility that anyone can afford a Corvette.

I'm sure that quite a few people can afford a Corvette. I'm sure that quite a few people just above the average wage will make a few sacrifices to hop onto a finance deal for a Corvette. But it is outside the realm of the average new car buyer - let alone the average car buyer - and so cannot possibly be classed as affordable. Relatively inexpensive for the class... yes, probably. But you could buy a classic Mini, a brand new MX-5, another classic Mini, a new Hyundai Coupe/Tiburon, another classic Mini and another brand new MX-5 for the price of one C6 in the UK...

And maybe another classic Mini.

 

[Sharky.]

911.

I must admit, it was a toss-up between the MX-5 and 911. The Porker gets it because of the sheer engineering effort needed to work the ass-out engine format into decent handling.

 

[Tornado]

Excuse me?

Oldsmobile beat it by 7 years and 200 turn-of-the-century dollars. And I'm sure Ransom Eli Olds didn't hire people to beat up union workers on strike.

 

[samj_13]

Base C6 Corvette = £45,850

Corvette Z06 = £60,000 (approx.)

Porsche 911 3.6 Carrera = £59,070

So no even at base level the 911 is still around £14k more expensive, however the 'Vette will have the steering wheel on the wrong side of the road for us in the UK no matter what model you get.

Ah, ok, but that's just about the complete opposite in the US.

Chevy Corvette Z06= ~$75,000

Porsche 911 3.6 = ~$90,000

The Porsche and the Corvette are both on the left side here, so drive-thrus are a no hassle.

But, like I said, I'd personally prefer a Corvette because my dad loves Corvette's and has had 2 already and I would give that to him for his 50th birthday because he loves the new one and wants one really bad (his 50th is in 3 1/2 years).

Then I'd get a Vette as well, and a 911!

 

[STLbarcelona5]

Since my Beetle was outvoted by the 911. And it is my belief that other than the Model T, the Beetle is the most important car in automotive history. I have to give my vote for the 911 just because it had beaten the Beetle. And, well, it's been a damn good car for 40 years, and that counts for a lot.

 

[Kylehnat]

Yes but this argument is completely irrelevant because it's relative to the price of the item. A $400,000 house being paid off over 30 years is probably relatively similar in price to a $40,000 car being paid off over 5 years. No one in their right mind would want an item for $40,000 to be paid off over 30 years, because they could easily pay it off in less time.

Do you understand how much money that is?

A new Corvette can be had for $60,000. With tax and licensing (in WA), that balloons to about $70,000. Say you can afford to put $10,000 down (which itself would take a while to save up). So, financing $60,000 with 6% interest and a 60-month term, you'd pay $1,200/month. Most people don't have that much to piss away on a car, and only the most financially irresponsible people would make a plan to "scrape by" while they pay for the car.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

My vote:

Classic.

 

[Tornado]

Awesome. Pure awesome for the Bean Mini.

 

[=V8 Power=]

One word: Z06

You can fight all you want, but you know the specs...
BTW even though the 911 is quicker off the line, after 100 its all over.

 

[Sharky.]

Maybe, but performance isn't everything.

 

[Tornado]

And the 911 Turbo, as good as the Z06 is, just is such a better car than it's American counterpart (though you do pay for it).

 

[Sharky.]

Exactly. Besides, the 911 handles so much better. The Z06 might handle better than other American cars, but it's still no match for the prowess of the Porsche (especially the Turbo).

 

[Sakiale]

Well, I voted for the Mazda Miata (1st Generation, not the new ugly heavy MX5 crap)

The Miata brought back the idea of a true sports car-- lightweight, with a small engine, and open-top. It was available to anyone with an average income, and it looks so cute with those Austin Healy style bugeyes

 

[IMADreamer]

Not at all, but what i dont like to see is a hairdressers car in the Japanese section, i'm sure we would have more than one vote up there by now if we had a Skyline, Supra, Impreza or say an Evo in there. Now im not saying thats what car should be there as the MX5 obviously won the poll for best Japanese cars for some misterious reason.

Wheres all the MX5 followers? No where but im sure we have a few die hard Skyline fans about.

Barry

I don't want to start a Japan v USA or any other country war but there are some good reasons why the cars you mentioned are not on this final list.

The skyline is somewhat over rated. It has never had a worldwide impact and is not sold in the states. That last part doesn't mean much really but yet it does. If you are going to be relevant you have to be relevant in the states for the most part. I like the skyline, I think it's a great car, but it's over rated. ALOT. Especially by young American kids. It does not belong on a short list of the worlds greatest cars. The supporters are here, I think many of us here like the skyline a lot and it got a ton of votes in the Japan thread, but the MX-5 won.

Why did the MX five win? It's an enthusiast car. it is relevant worldwide and it's a great drivers car. Esentially you can go to the track with it right out of the box and be competitive. It's also extremely affordable. In terms of significance, and value the Skyline does not hold a candle to the Miata.

Supra: I'm curious as to why you think that car is great? Is it a good tuner? Yes, but outside of the Fast and Furious generation it has no significance. It's never had any racing history, it has no heritage, they were/are expensive, and have never made an impact on the car world.

Imprezza or Evo: all of the above basically. Outside of the rally world they have made no impact on anything. They are cars that are lost in the pack of everything else. They are ordinary cars essentially, nothing great about them.

Again, I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why I think those cars didn't make the cut. I don't think any of them are in the same class as the Corvette or 911 which are truely world class legendary cars.

 

[Sakiale]

Agreed. Maybe the fanboys would vote for them, but IMO they arent really that influential--most people in the US dont even know what a Skyline is, and the Evo and Impreza aren't exactly the 'best'.

 

[IMADreamer]

Exactly. Besides, the 911 handles so much better. The Z06 might handle better than other American cars, but it's still no match for the prowess of the Porsche (especially the Turbo).

Actually the 911 doesn't handle better then the new Z06.

Take from the current Car and Driver.

"On paper, the Z06 Corvette is the best car here. It accelerates as quickly as the 911 Turbo through the quarter and wastes both the Porsche and Ferrari at speeds above 120 mph. How about 0 to 150 mph in 17.7 seconds? That’s up there in Ford GT territory, if not as stupid fast as a McLaren F1. The Z06 has the most grip at 1.01 g and the best braking performance. On an autobahn, it was still accelerating while the Ferrari was topped out in sixth gear at 186 mph. Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari’s price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period."

 

[SagarisGTB]

Hypocrite! You put down the Skyline because it didnt have a worldwide impact and then say its nowhere near the Corvette. Has the corvette ever been respected outside the US? Up until a few years ago (and some will argue it still doesnt) the Corvette had no respect in europe and I doubt the Japanese even knew what a Corvette was until Gran Turismo.

Im not a skyline fan, but I truly respect what it did on the ring and JGTC and other racing in the 90s. And have you ever driven one? All ive heard from reviews from drivers is compliments. The Corvette was a BAD car until the C5 came along, and even now its not on the level of the 911.

The Skyline and the NSX are closer to the 911 than the corvette (IMO). But I agree about the Supra. And the WRX and Evo will need more time and refinement before its in the BEST CAR in the world category.

Though I think the best cars in the world are the Honda Accord, Merc S-class, BMW 3series, Audi 80/90 (with QUATTRO), cars like that, not supercars.

 

[Tornado]

While I do agree with you that the NSX and Skyline GTR are far closer to the 911 than the Corvette is (and I will establish this right now: the Skyline was only meant to be faster than the base 911. So any non-base 911 arguments you would like to use should be put back in the proper place. The NSX was desgined to be better than the worst Ferrari ever, the base 911 and the Esprit. And it was better than these cars for about 5 years. So, again, any non-base 911 arguments you would like to use should be put back in the proper place.), there is a problem. That is why the car gets no respect. And the NSX lacking HP is why it gets no respect, despite handling by far well enough to make up for it.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Well, it took the 996 and C5 to match the NSXs pace, and by then the NSX was 8 or so years old, usually after most cars are replaced. Anybody who doesnt respect the NSX for lack of power is an idiot. Honda respected the gentlemans agreement and was still able to compete (without a redesign) for 10 years with the 911 and M3. To dismiss Senna's car because it didnt have 400hp (like americans do) is rediculous.

And the fast and furious was unfortunate, but shouldnt diminish the Skyline's stature.

And of course were comparing to the base-911 and RS. Turbos and GT2s are a step above (but would get outhandled by an NSX)

I am an NSX fanboy btw.

 

[KSaiyu]

Aye, Senna's car was a true legend.

I voted 911 btw since the bloody mclaren didn't get through.

 

[IMADreamer]

Hypocrite! You put down the Skyline because it didnt have a worldwide impact and then say its nowhere near the Corvette. Has the corvette ever been respected outside the US? Up until a few years ago (and some will argue it still doesnt) the Corvette had no respect in europe and I doubt the Japanese even knew what a Corvette was until Gran Turismo.

Im not a skyline fan, but I truly respect what it did on the ring and JGTC and other racing in the 90s. And have you ever driven one? All ive heard from reviews from drivers is compliments. The Corvette was a BAD car until the C5 came along, and even now its not on the level of the 911.

The Skyline and the NSX are closer to the 911 than the corvette (IMO). But I agree about the Supra. And the WRX and Evo will need more time and refinement before its in the BEST CAR in the world category.

Though I think the best cars in the world are the Honda Accord, Merc S-class, BMW 3series, Audi 80/90 (with QUATTRO), cars like that, not supercars.

Did I any where bash the skyline? I'm not saying it's not a great car, but it's not world class. If this poll were conducted five years ago I would be suprised if the skyline would have even been mentioned let alone recieved the huge number of votes it got in the Japan thread. The fact is while the Skyline is a great car it is not great in the same sense as a Corvette or 911.

The NSX if any car, is the car from Japan that should be brought up here, not the skyline. The NSX is iconic, it was significant, and while not relevent today certainly made a big splash 15 years ago.

As far as the Vette being on the same level as the 911, well to what extent do you mean? If you are talking about performance then the C6 Z06 is certainly on the same level. In refinement, no, but I supose that makes up the price difference. The discussion I am bringing up is not about the 911 or Vette though. I believe those two are world class cars and belong on this list. It's the skyline supporters that I think are wrong. The car just doesn't have the moxy to make this list. If we were doing a top 50 list then sure, but not just a handful and it's certainly not the best Japan has to offer.

 

[IMADreamer]

Well, it took the 996 and C5 to match the NSXs pace, and by then the NSX was 8 or so years old, usually after most cars are replaced. Anybody who doesnt respect the NSX for lack of power is an idiot. Honda respected the gentlemans agreement and was still able to compete (without a redesign) for 10 years with the 911 and M3. To dismiss Senna's car because it didnt have 400hp (like americans do) is rediculous.

And the fast and furious was unfortunate, but shouldnt diminish the Skyline's stature.

And of course were comparing to the base-911 and RS. Turbos and GT2s are a step above (but would get outhandled by an NSX)

I am an NSX fanboy btw.

The NSXs intent was not to compete with 911s or Vettes, it was aimed straight at Ferrari. It did do well for a few years until the release of the 355 in 1995. Then it was over. Ferrari recaptured the lead and never looked back. That's not to at all diminish what the NSX did. It made Ferrari striaghten up it's act.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Did I any where bash the skyline? I'm not saying it's not a great car, but it's not world class. If this poll were conducted five years ago I would be suprised if the skyline would have even been mentioned let alone recieved the huge number of votes it got in the Japan thread. The fact is while the Skyline is a great car it is not great in the same sense as a Corvette or 911.

Five years ago the GTR went out of production. And why is it not World class? The R32, R33 and R34 were all great performers and superb driving cars. What makes the corvette any better? Its been around for 50 years and has been selling well in america. The same way the skyline has been selling in japan (not for 50 years mind you). The corvette looked great in C2 and C3 guise. Skyline has always looked handsome, not overly anything, but simply good. The C5 and C6 are good cars (not great) and the Z06 is an excellent performer. All three 90s skylines were great cars and the Nismo versions were great performers. The skyline had its day before the days of your Z06 anyway. The compare a R34 to a Z06 is silly. So, what makes the corvette a step above the GTRs?

As far as the Vette being on the same level as the 911, well to what extent do you mean? If you are talking about performance then the C6 Z06 is certainly on the same level. In refinement, no, but I supose that makes up the price difference. The discussion I am bringing up is not about the 911 or Vette though. I believe those two are world class cars and belong on this list. It's the skyline supporters that I think are wrong. The car just doesn't have the moxy to make this list. If we were doing a top 50 list then sure, but not just a handful and it's certainly not the best Japan has to offer.

The 911 is more than just performance, something the corvette has yet to reach. The current 911 has the poise, grip, stabilty, handling and everyday usibility that the corvette isnt matching. Driver feel in the curving hills. And thats just a comparison of todays cars. Histrically, corvettes havent been good and 911s have.

 

[Race Idiot]

Did I any where bash the skyline? I'm not saying it's not a great car, but it's not world class. If this poll were conducted five years ago I would be suprised if the skyline would have even been mentioned let alone recieved the huge number of votes it got in the Japan thread. The fact is while the Skyline is a great car it is not great in the same sense as a Corvette or 911.

The NSX if any car, is the car from Japan that should be brought up here, not the skyline. The NSX is iconic, it was significant, and while not relevent today certainly made a big splash 15 years ago.

So a car that first built in the 50's (yes the first skyline was built in 1955 if I remember correctly), enjoyed moderate touring car success in the 70's, 80's and utterly dominated group A racing untill it was neutered with restrictions and added weight in the 90's (even then it was still competitive) isn't world class?

If anything the skyline is pretty much Japans Corvette, the NSX does not have the history or the success in motorsport that the Skyline has.

 

[1X83Z]

Oldsmobile beat it by 7 years and 200 turn-of-the-century dollars. And I'm sure Ransom Eli Olds didn't hire people to beat up union workers on strike.

Nor did he sell a tenth as many vehicles as Ford's pinnacle of automotive engineering. Sorry - not buying it.

Do you understand how much money that is?

A new Corvette can be had for $60,000. With tax and licensing (in WA), that balloons to about $70,000. Say you can afford to put $10,000 down (which itself would take a while to save up). So, financing $60,000 with 6% interest and a 60-month term, you'd pay $1,200/month. Most people don't have that much to piss away on a car, and only the most financially irresponsible people would make a plan to "scrape by" while they pay for the car.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I'll play this seriously.

$1200 a month for 12 months is $14400 a year.

Perhaps this explains why the poor don't buy Corvettes? I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of the majority - the vast majority - of Americans.

 

[Poverty]

Actually the 911 doesn't handle better then the new Z06.

Take from the current Car and Driver.

"On paper, the Z06 Corvette is the best car here. It accelerates as quickly as the 911 Turbo through the quarter and wastes both the Porsche and Ferrari at speeds above 120 mph. How about 0 to 150 mph in 17.7 seconds? That’s up there in Ford GT territory, if not as stupid fast as a McLaren F1. The Z06 has the most grip at 1.01 g and the best braking performance. On an autobahn, it was still accelerating while the Ferrari was topped out in sixth gear at 186 mph. Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari’s price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period."

that article isnt misleading or biased....

Hypocrite! You put down the Skyline because it didnt have a worldwide impact and then say its nowhere near the Corvette. Has the corvette ever been respected outside the US? Up until a few years ago (and some will argue it still doesnt) the Corvette had no respect in europe and I doubt the Japanese even knew what a Corvette was until Gran Turismo.

This is true, not untill the C6 Z06 no one outside of europe would have given the vette any respect at all. Infact it was a bit of a laughing stock, and the butt of all jokes about american cars.