The World's Best Car

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VOTE For World's Best Car


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Actually the 911 doesn't handle better then the new Z06.

Take from the current Car and Driver.

"On paper, the Z06 Corvette is the best car here. It accelerates as quickly as the 911 Turbo through the quarter and wastes both the Porsche and Ferrari at speeds above 120 mph. How about 0 to 150 mph in 17.7 seconds? That’s up there in Ford GT territory, if not as stupid fast as a McLaren F1. The Z06 has the most grip at 1.01 g and the best braking performance. On an autobahn, it was still accelerating while the Ferrari was topped out in sixth gear at 186 mph. Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari’s price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period."


Just to play devil's advocate here, but that extract does not once talk about handling in any form.

I can see a lat-g figure, but grip is not handling, I can see a lap time, but that is arguably very subjective (a different track could yield different results) and I see talk of braking performance.

What I don't see in any part of that piece is a description of any element of any of the cars handling characteristics, cold hard figures I see plenty of, but nothing to tell me which of these cars will communicate exactly what it is doing and going to do.

As a driver, in terms of driving enjoyment, that's information I would find far more valuable and interesting.

Regards

Scaff
 
Actually the 911 doesn't handle better then the new Z06.

Take from the current Car and Driver.

"On paper, the Z06 Corvette is the best car here. It accelerates as quickly as the 911 Turbo through the quarter and wastes both the Porsche and Ferrari at speeds above 120 mph. How about 0 to 150 mph in 17.7 seconds? That’s up there in Ford GT territory, if not as stupid fast as a McLaren F1. The Z06 has the most grip at 1.01 g and the best braking performance. On an autobahn, it was still accelerating while the Ferrari was topped out in sixth gear at 186 mph. Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari’s price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period."

Where in this article does it mention anything about handling?

Acceleration, lateral grip, braking, lap times, value for money - but absolutely nothing that has anything to do with how a car handles.

One word: Z06

You can fight all you want, but you know the specs...
BTW even though the 911 is quicker off the line, after 100 its all over.

Does this make it the best car in the world?
 
To me, the world's best car was and always will be the Nissan GTR.

But seeing as it isn't in the poll and I like to commend Aussie cars, the Monaro gets my vote. So much greatness, so much heritage.
 
that article isnt misleading or biased....:rolleyes:



This is true, not untill the C6 Z06 no one outside of europe would have given the vette any respect at all. Infact it was a bit of a laughing stock, and the butt of all jokes about american cars.



Your right, the article isn't biased. The Z06 finished last in the over all comparo. The 430 was first and the 911 second. Basically due to refinement and all that other good stuff. I won't argue with that result. While the vette is presitious, it's not as much as the other two, and the other two are more refined. It's no secret the Europeans do that better. I left the result out though because I wanted to see if someone called fowl on the article. Oh look they did!

I'm not saying the Z06 is the worlds greatest car, but it's great, and performance wise it is on par with the 911. I do think the Vette is best car on our list here but admittedly I am bias.

Back to the skyline though, it just wasn't revolutionary and is not well known on the world stage. Laughing stock or not everyone knows about the corvette. A few years ago very few in the states knew about the skyline. I could argue that if it weren't for a movie or two there would still be only a handful who knew about the skyline in the states. Maybe it's because I live in the US and in a US centric world but I think you have to be big in the US to be relevant in this discussion.

By the way I did know they made skylines in the 50s, but honestly it was just because of Gran Turismo that I knew that. Also those early skylines weren't the splash that the Vette was.

The whole point of my ramblings is that the Skyline doesn't deserve to be on this final list like a couple think it should. It's just not the best Japan has, while the Vette probably is the best the US has.
 
i vote for the 911 because it's something like a status-symbol here in europe. i live in austria, near the homecountry of Porsche and a lot of people talk about a Porsche as their dreamcar, because it's something not everyone can afford....

viper
 
I'm not saying the Z06 is the worlds greatest car, but it's great, and performance wise it is on par with the 911. I do think the Vette is best car on our list here but admittedly I am bias.
Yes, but there's a hell of a lot of cars that are performance wise on par or better than the Vette, that cost less as well.

Back to the skyline though, it just wasn't revolutionary and is not well known on the world stage.
Neither is the Corvette.

L
aughing stock or not everyone knows about the corvette. A few years ago very few in the states knew about the skyline.
I gaurentee more people know about the Skyline in the UK than the Vette. Not many people outside the US really know anything about the Vette.

I could argue that if it weren't for a movie or two there would still be only a handful who knew about the skyline in the states.
You could, and if it wasn't for internet message boards and computer games the Vette would be pretty unheard of here too. Oh hanfg on it already is.

Maybe it's because I live in the US and in a US centric world but I think you have to be big in the US to be relevant in this discussion.
No you have to be big in the world. If your big everywhere else but the US your doing far better than something big in the US and nowhere else.

By the way I did know they made skylines in the 50s, but honestly it was just because of Gran Turismo that I knew that. Also those early skylines weren't the splash that the Vette was.
The Mustang was a splash, it was sold outside the US, the Vette's splash was local.

The whole point of my ramblings is that the Skyline doesn't deserve to be on this final list like a couple think it should.
My point is that the Skyline and Vette arn't that differet in terms of what they mean to people, in Japan the Skyline is HUGE, outside Japan it's a car people have heared of by reputation. In the US the Vette is HUGE, outside the US people know it by reputation, and to be honest, until the C6 Vette, it's reputation wasn't very good in Europe.

It's just not the best Japan has, while the Vette probably is the best the US has.
Best what? Performance for your cash? I'm sure the US has some specialist or kit car manufacturer who can build a car that's cheaper and faster. It's a mainstream sportscar IN THE US, but nowhere else. Much like the Skyline is in Japan but nowhere else.
 
Your right, the article isn't biased. The Z06 finished last in the over all comparo. The 430 was first and the 911 second. Basically due to refinement and all that other good stuff. I won't argue with that result. While the vette is presitious, it's not as much as the other two, and the other two are more refined. It's no secret the Europeans do that better. I left the result out though because I wanted to see if someone called fowl on the article. Oh look they did!
Thats what you think.
"Around our road course, it was an easy victor, 1.7 seconds quicker than the Porsche on a near-76-second lap. It does all this for about a third of the Ferrari’s price. The Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period."

Firstly the 911 is faster around the 'ring and C/D fully well know that as they were the ones I got the 7'39 lap from. Secondly not only is the Turbo faster around the 'ring but so is the GT3. It all depends on the track as to which one is faster on the day, and arguably the conditions.


Secondly and what makes the article misleading and bias is highlighted in red. To say that the Z06 is the best performance bargain in the world is complete and utter crap. Its not even the best performance bargain in the USA let alone the world.
I'm not saying the Z06 is the worlds greatest car, but it's great, and performance wise it is on par with the 911. I do think the Vette is best car on our list here but admittedly I am bias.

Back to the skyline though, it just wasn't revolutionary and is not well known on the world stage. Laughing stock or not everyone knows about the corvette. A few years ago very few in the states knew about the skyline. I could argue that if it weren't for a movie or two there would still be only a handful who knew about the skyline in the states. Maybe it's because I live in the US and in a US centric world but I think you have to be big in the US to be relevant in this discussion.

By the way I did know they made skylines in the 50s, but honestly it was just because of Gran Turismo that I knew that. Also those early skylines weren't the splash that the Vette was.

The whole point of my ramblings is that the Skyline doesn't deserve to be on this final list like a couple think it should. It's just not the best Japan has, while the Vette probably is the best the US has.

The Z06 being on par performance wise with the 911 is arguable. Say there a Z06 and a GT3. The Z06 will beat it in a straight line every time, but in all other categories the GT3 wins hands down and very easily. On a complex and twisty track, a GT3 would completly trounce a Z06, whilst still being a much more comfortable car (many publications have said the Z06 has a harsh ride, whilst the 997GT3 is rather comfortable if you didnt tick the race suspension box; I can back this up with evidence)

As for the vette making the list if we did this before the C6 Z06 came out I dont think it would have made it.
 
Hmm.

Everyone - or at least everyone who was a member - had a chance to vote for the finalists in this round over the last couple of months. There is no sense complaining that x, y or z isn't there - they had their chance in the national rounds and didn't make it through to the final.


The cars presented here are the only cars that did. Vote for one of them or vote for none of them - the list will not be changed.
 
Hands up everyone who's driven the 911 and the Corvette. Anyone? No? Then no-one here is in any position to compare the handling of the 2 cars. You can't accept any magazine's reviews as gospel either, because at the end of the day, it's only the opinion of one person (the tester themself), despite that one person being - presumably - highly experienced with those types of car.

More or less everyone on GTP has played Gran Turismo, and will therefore know about both the Skyline and the Corvette. So it's difficult to prove just how many people in various countries have heard of various types of car, because we can't use personal experience that easily.

If I was buying a high-performance car over here, I'd have gone straight to Blackpool. TVR have similar performance for similair money to the Corvette, with the added bonus of having the steering wheel on the right side for us crazy Brits. You can even get a nice little rear wing on some TVRs to hang the "On Tow" sign on, which I don't think the Corvette has.
 
Handling cannot be defined by a set test be it a skid pan, a slalom or a lap of a selected track. Handling is also personal, ie two cars can take the same corners at the same speeds but person A might love the frist and hate the second, person B might hate the first but love the second. Regarding the Corvette and the 911, both handle well, we can accept that as a truth. However regarding ride quality, that is an altogether different matter. I don't think I need to ride in either to believe that the 911 offers a better ride than the Corvette. How that factors into the best car in the world is again a personal thing.
 
Handling cannot be defined by a set test be it a skid pan, a slalom or a lap of a selected track. Handling is also personal, ie two cars can take the same corners at the same speeds but person A might love the frist and hate the second, person B might hate the first but love the second. Regarding the Corvette and the 911, both handle well, we can accept that as a truth. However regarding ride quality, that is an altogether different matter. I don't think I need to ride in either to believe that the 911 offers a better ride than the Corvette. How that factors into the best car in the world is again a personal thing.

While I totally agree that handling can not be defined by numbers alone (as I said earlier in this thread and many times before), I don't agree that handling is so personal as to always invalidate a testers opinion.

Yes certain cars will divide opinion massively, just look at the road tests relating to the Focus RS. However the vast majority of the time the opinion on the handling of a car does match across a range of testers, for example when the Ford Escort 1.4lx was launched in 1990 every road test was strongly critical of the cars handling, on a flip side the Lotus Elan is held up as an example of handling prowess by almost everyone.

The best motoring writers show themselves by being able to describe a cars handling characteristics in such as way that you can gain an understanding of those characteristics, and again a good piece on a car will contain the thoughts and opinions of a number of testers to allow a range of opinions to be discussed.

BTW @ Roo - hand half up, I've driven a couple of 911's and had a ride in a C5 'vette so that almost counts.

Regards

Scaff
 
How that factors into the best car in the world is again a personal thing.

... which pretty much applies to any aspect of any car - it's all down to personal taste, and I thank l4S for bringing it up, because I hadn't thought of that.

I reckon the frst question in the thread ought to have been "In your opinion what is the world's best car?"

I still think though, that of you haven't had experience of the car you're arguing for, then you should be careful of what you say. I can tell you how a Mini handles (grippy, with bags of understeer at extremes and any tiny bit of lift off oversteer in the wet, in case you were wondering) and what it's ride is like (bouncy), but I'm not going to say it's any better than any of the other cars on the list, because I haven't driven - or even been a passenger - in any of them.

BTW @ Roo - hand half up, I've driven a couple of 911's and had a ride in a C5 'vette so that almost counts.

That's fair enough then - you have the experience to draw from.

This debating lark is proving more fun than I previously thought.
 
Roo
That's fair enough then - you have the experience to draw from.

This debating lark is proving more fun than I previously thought.

You are right it is good fun, and I've just realised I have driven four of the final cars (Hyundai Coupe, MX-5, Mini and 911) and been driven in two others ('vette and a Vauxhall Monaro), I do however think that adding the rest to either of my lists will prove quite a bit more difficult.

LOL

Scaff
 
While I totally agree that handling can not be defined by numbers alone (as I said earlier in this thread and many times before), I don't agree that handling is so personal as to always invalidate a testers opinion.
Personal opinion certainly couldn't cause one person to say that the Kia Sedona handles better than an Elise and mean it. But if your comparing two sportscars that are both very good then personal opinion can play a large role in who say's which one is best. I'd say that they have to both be in the same ball park though for it to be the deciding factor. That's why I used the two cars taking the corner at the same speed, if one was 50mph and the other could do it at 100mph and both cars had the same engine tuned to the same power outputs, then it's clear which car can take the corner better.
 
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I'll play this seriously.

$1200 a month for 12 months is $14400 a year.

Perhaps this explains why the poor don't buy Corvettes? I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of the majority - the vast majority - of Americans.
I'm guessing you've never lived on your own. Anyone who spends every last free penny they have on a car is a complete idiot.

Let's put this in perspective. If the car costs $1,200/month, how much money does one need to earn? Using myself as a base (and I live modestly), monthly expenses (rent, utilities, food, phone, internet, insurance, gas, etc...) would work out to roughly $2,000/month. So, to "afford" the Corvette, I'd need to earn $3,200/month NET. Working backwards with WA tax laws + federal, someone earning $3,200/month net has about 28% of their gross pay taken in taxes/social security (and we don't even have a state income tax). So, that would imply a gross salary of $4,450/month, or $53,500/year. That's not an easy salary to obtain. In fact, that alone eliminates more than half of the U.S. population (median salary is estimated at $46,000). And, I don't know anyone who earns that much who even considered buying a Corvette. It's not just "poor" people who can't afford Vettes.

Furthermore, anyone who earns this much and decides to buy a Corvette, they have no money for anything else. Can't fly home for the holidays, can't buy that new TV, and can't go to the ballgame with friends. Landlord raises your rent? Oops. No money to pay for that, either. Want to save for a house? Nope. Sorry. And this is all for me, a single man in his early 20s. Throw a wife and kid into the picture, and the Corvette is a pipe dream (and where is that baby seat going to go? In the trunk?).

However, there's no doubt that the Corvette is pretty much the best bang for the buck. I voted for it because it is a consistently good car, and is a huge part of American automotive history, and is the most worthy representative to the world.
 
Personal opinion certainly couldn't cause one person to say that the Kia Sedona handles better than an Elise and mean it. But if your comparing two sportscars that are both very good then personal opinion can play a large role in who say's which one is best. I'd say that they have to both be in the same ball park though for it to be the deciding factor. That's why I used the two cars taking the corner at the same speed, if one was 50mph and the other could do it at 100mph and both cars had the same engine tuned to the same power outputs, then it's clear which car can take the corner better.

While I agree with the sentiment at the start (would be hard not to as its agreeing with my last post), the section I have highlighted is simply another way of looking at lateral g. It doesn't tell me what the two cars would be like to drive around the corner, simply which would get around it at the highest speed.

In fact we can convert them directly into lat-g figures, lets assume the corner has a 200ft radius (as most skidpan tests use this radius).

To calculate cornering speed the formula is

15 * G * R = MPH^2

G = Lateral G

R = Radius in feet
(Source - Going Faster - The Skip Barber Race School)

So we can use that to work out lat-g if we have cornering speed and corner radius.

This works out as

50mph (200ft radius) = 0.83g

100mph (200ft radius) = 3.33g


So once again, for me, these figures are of no use in describing the handling of the two cars, simply at indicating which cornered the quickest, not which one wanted to involve me the most as a driver. So I could not agree that it tells me which takes the corner better, simply which one takes the corner quicker (the faster one could be terrifying - no feel or feedback, am I about to spin of the road and die, etc).

Regards

Scaff
 
So once again, for me, these figures are of no use in describing the handling of the two cars, simply at indicating which cornered the quickest, not which one wanted to involve me the most as a driver. So I could not agree that it tells me which takes the corner better, simply which one takes the corner quicker (the faster one could be terrifying - no feel or feedback, am I about to spin of the road and die, etc).

Regards

Scaff
Ironically, race car drivers (who are really the only people who need to worry about handling) are expected to deal with those feelings of impending death in a squirrely car--all for another couple tenths :lol:.

I'm with Scaff on this one; I'd rather have the car that feels the best, not the one that's best on paper. It's unlikely that I'll ever experience that paper difference anyway. The turn into my driveway is probably a grizzly 0.05 g ;).

There is no way to quantify which of these cars is the "best". If there were, there'd be no need to discuss it, and no need for a poll.
 
i think's this thread is incorectly titled, i should be somthing along the lines of

gtp's best car etc.
 
I'm guessing you've never lived on your own. Anyone who spends every last free penny they have on a car is a complete idiot.

:lol: Did I say that?! This is just a comical argument; I compute these financing payments on a daily basis for people and for some reason you presumed that because I called it affordable I considered it affordable for you. Or whomever you felt couldn't afford it. Or something. Either way, the Corvette is affordable, and that's that.
 
I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of the majority - the vast majority - of Americans.

I compute these financing payments on a daily basis for people and for some reason you presumed that because I called it affordable I considered it affordable for you. Or whomever you felt couldn't afford it. Or something. Either way, the Corvette is affordable, and that's that.

And kyle's fag-packet calculations which put the realistic wage required to afford these payments at 20% higher than your national average wage?
 
Or something. Either way, the Corvette is affordable, and that's that.
FOR WHO??? $60,000 for a new car is most certainly NOT affordable to the common man. Of the several hundred cars I've seen today on the street and in parking lots, exactly one was worth more than $60,000. You must have some bizzare standard for affordability.
 
Ironically, race car drivers (who are really the only people who need to worry about handling) are expected to deal with those feelings of impending death in a squirrely car--all for another couple tenths :lol:.

I'm with Scaff on this one; I'd rather have the car that feels the best, not the one that's best on paper. It's unlikely that I'll ever experience that paper difference anyway. The turn into my driveway is probably a grizzly 0.05 g ;).

There is no way to quantify which of these cars is the "best". If there were, there'd be no need to discuss it, and no need for a poll.

👍

I can even give examples to illustrate the point further.

The original 1969 Porsche 917 was reportedly a horrible handling car, every one of the cars drivers from that year stated it was almost totally uncontrollable at times (I have a DVD of the 1969 race and quite number make this point directly). I would imagine however that the car would post quite an impressive lat-g figure.

On the other hand an original Mini (picked in a vague attempt to keep things on topic) may well struggle to match the 0.83g figure from our example above, but is a wonderfully communicative and great handling little car.

Grip is not and never will be an accurate measure of a cars handling.

Regards

Scaff
 
FOR WHO??? $60,000 for a new car is most certainly NOT affordable to the common man. Of the several hundred cars I've seen today on the street and in parking lots, exactly one was worth more than $60,000. You must have some bizzare standard for affordability.



You're right but I think it's not out of reach of a regular working man. All it takes is saving more money than usual. But it is expensive.


Ciao!
 
I voted Tiburon.

As "best car", it is at least as good as any of the other overpriced and impractical choices on the list.
 
Hmm.

Everyone - or at least everyone who was a member - had a chance to vote for the finalists in this round over the last couple of months. There is no sense complaining that x, y or z isn't there - they had their chance in the national rounds and didn't make it through to the final.


The cars presented here are the only cars that did. Vote for one of them or vote for none of them - the list will not be changed.

Thanks for saying that, as it pretty much sums up my feelings of what I have read thus far. I was without the internet for a day, and look what happens...

Roo
Hands up everyone who's driven the 911 and the Corvette. Anyone?

Actually, I've driven both, but I've certainly driven more Corvettes than 911s myself. The 911 was an '87 3.2 Carrera, modified by the owner for weekend track events. She was a blast to drive, and was surpassed all of my expectations for a car that old. Compared to other Corvettes that I have driven from the same timeframe, the Porsche is much better, but things have indeed changed.

The short stint in the later 996 (and I mean short... Less than 30 mins) was indeed a good one as well, and given more time I could have gotten a better overall feel for the car, but IMO, I prefered the C5 and C6 Corvettes I've been dealing with over the past two years. They are a bit easier for the folks to use, and seemed a bit more comfortable overall.

...Of course comfort isn't a major factor when buying a sportscar, but when the need calls for it, people go for it. The last C6 I drove, a 2005 Convertable with the Magnaride suspension and the T56, was indeed a nice car that had both a comfortable and rather sporty setup. Of course the adaptive suspension plays a large role in that, and it certainly isn't the Z51 "standard," but it works out well... So good in fact that Audi and Ferrari are both using the suspension on the TT and 599 GTB.

The debates for both cars have been very interesting to read, and all sides have pretty good points. But generally speaking, the bias for both cars I think has blinded everyone. Unless you have driven both, which very few (if any) of us have, you aren't going to be able to see it from both sides. Granted, my expiriences with Porsches is quite limited in terms of newer models, so even then I'm a bit biased.

...But you know what? Even though I would love to see the Corvette win, if the 911 takes it, so be it. It deserves its spot just as much as the Corvette, or the Mini, etc. Silver isn't so bad for the USA, as like many people have said, up untill a few years ago, the Corvette was not a major force in markets outside of North America.

I'd still push for the Corvette myself, but the way things have been going, it appears as though the 911 has the deal sealed.
 
Does this make it the best car in the world?

Well, for me the most important factor in buying a car is the straight line acceleration. The 911 does handle better than the Z06, but in day to day driving that wouldn't matter. At least for me, day to day I have no chance to take a turn at 60mph in a 911.

I do however have the chance everyday to floor it off a stoplight. So for me the Z06 would be a way better choice. Not to mention getting to destroy any car that challenges me. The Z06 also costs way less than a 911, has a bigger trunk, and has the most important aspect "for me" in cars...a V8.
 
Not to pick on a fellow American, but dude, you totally fell into a European stereotype of Americans. Straightline acceleration, although extremely important to Americans, doesn't count for jack in Europe, so prepare yourself for the flames!

But you are right on a few things there:

- The Corvette is cheaper
- The Corvette is faster (in a straight line, some tracks as well [depends on model])
- The Corvette has a larger trunk (particularly the hardtops)
- The Corvette gets better fuel economy (I've seen 30 MPG on the highway, thats about 36 British Gallons)
- The Corvette is cheaper to insure



But, of course, much of that only pertains to Corvettes in the US and not worldwide...
 

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