TheVerge: Wait for GT7 'unacceptable'

[dr_slump]

You start the Forza topic and then bring this? Wow...

 

[synon]

I guess all I can say is due to PD modeling cars "in house" and not outsourcing its car modeling group, is why I said they're slower at modeling. We know the rest of the cars they're modeling are being saved for GT7, but hear me out on this one. Let's go back in time shall we? Back when FM5 launched, it had 200 cars that were all remodeled from scratch, taking T10 2 years to be done. GT5 also launched with 200 cars as well, but it took PD 5 whole years to remodel the premiums from scratch. And adding to that, if PD weren't slow, you will see a ton of brand new cars as DLC like how T10's releases DLC every month with 10 cars.

According to this article,
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sport-5-has-less-cars-and-tracks-than-forza-4
they only started from scratch for some of the cars: "Some of [the cars], the spec was good and we could add polygons where we needed them."

I imagine the cars added later on in the series were modelled ready to be ported fairly easily to the current-gen.

 

[Tenacious D]

You start the Forza topic and then bring this? Wow...

Johnny sets the rules for all discussions around here.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You start the Forza topic and then bring this? Wow...

One member brought up Forza in comparison to the GT series, specifically talking about modelling teams. The other member resorted to their usual party trick of trying to turn any mention of it into an excuse to turn a thread into a complaint thread about Forza. Something they've repeatedly been told has an entire section that would be more appropriate.

So, no, not quite the same. And it can stop here.

 

[Andefir]

It took 5 years to make GT5 after GT4. GT6 only came out some 1.5 years ago. If you want the game to be somewhat good, then wait. It's a different story making a slightly different game for the same console and trying to improve and release a new one for the next gen.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It took 5 years to make GT5 after GT4. GT6 only came out some 1.5 years ago. If you want the game to be somewhat good, then wait. It's a different story making a slightly different game for the same console and trying to improve and release a new one for the next gen.

We're already being given dates by the creator himself so we have a target in sight.

 

[Tornado]

So because we don't know wether it's PD or Sony who makes decisions for things such as outsourcing and the size of PD itself (number of employees), we can't really say PD is slow given the circumstances.

Kaz has given interviews in the past about things related to that which have at least suggested that a small team size and no external cooperation was deliberate and Kaz's choice. I'll see if I can find them when I get home, though Tenacious D certainly knows what they are since he has brought them up in the past; and since he clearly saw your post I'm sure he is getting ready to post them himself.

 

[dr_slump]

@Tornado
Suggested?

And regarding outsourcing: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...thing-you-would-consider.311699/#post-9790113
That's not what you're referring to, right?

 

[DarthMosco]

@dr_slump
I think it's this interview https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-tamir-moscovici-interview-jff-2013/

GTP: From the outside, it appears that Polyphony Digital has kept a very small, tight production team, while the games have grown in massive complexity. Is there a reason you like to keep the company limited in size?

“The people who develop Gran Turismo are really all like family. We still have people working on GT6 who also worked on GT1. I think that’s one of the strengths of Polyphony Digital, that we have those people.

“Even with the cars, we still don’t outsource any of the modeling with the cars, and that’s just how we do it and I think that’s what leads to the uniqueness of the game.”

 

[Tornado]

Both of those, yes, but I believe there was another one from the Prologue days (possibly even earlier than that) where Kaz talked about the family structure in a different context. It was a video interview too, but I'm drawing a blank who did it.

According to this article,

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sport-5-has-less-cars-and-tracks-than-forza-4
they only started from scratch for some of the cars: "Some of [the cars], the spec was good and we could add polygons where we needed them."

I imagine the cars added later on in the series were modelled ready to be ported fairly easily to the current-gen.

Plus if you take a close look at the car list and some of the specific cars in relation to those in the previous games (4 and up , the "they did everything from scratch" claim was a bit far fetched regardless.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Ain't PD like second biggest in car racing simulation games so they are quite large compared to most others in the genre. Anyway hopefully PD constant expansion for next GT game gets at least to the heights T10 had for Forza 1.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ain't PD like second biggest in car racing simulation games so they are quite large compared to most others in the genre. Anyway hopefully PD constant expansion for next GT game gets at least to the heights T10 had for Forza 1.

Depends on how you measure it. In terms of sales/game or sales/platform they are the leader by a light year. In total unit sales they are second to the NFS franchise I believe, but it's averaged more than 1 game/year for 20 years and is multi-platform.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Depends on how you measure it. In terms of sales/game or sales/platform they are the leader by a light year. In total unit sales they are second to the NFS franchise I believe, but it's averaged more than 1 game/year for 20 years and is multi-platform.

Writing regarding amount of development staff for car racing simulation game genre.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

The article seems to be click-bait.

I'd rather wait for the game to be released when it's ready and mostly bug free instead of something rushed and full of game-breaking bugs and other issues.

Exactly this.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Writing regarding amount of development staff for car racing simulation game genre.

I see. That's also subject to debate. We routinely hear 130-140 at PD and we know they've hired recently, so possibly 150+ staff. People routinely throw around 300-400 at T10 but that IMO is not an accurate figure. Full time staff seems to be smaller than PD, but their numbers swell with contractors who work on a time limited basis as the title approaches completion. This is an older article but it sheds some light on the situation.

 

[DarthMosco]

I see. That's also subject to debate. We routinely hear 130-140 at PD and we know they've hired recently, so possibly 150+ staff. People routinely throw around 300-400 at T10 but that IMO is not an accurate figure. Full time staff seems to be smaller than PD, but their numbers swell with contractors who work on a time limited basis as the title approaches completion. This is an older article but it sheds some light on the situation.

and so? they have more manpower than any other racing game developer (three/four times), and probably the biggest budget in this type of games.

for forza 6 there are more than 400 people
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/13/ford-gt---the-forza-6-cover-car

Alan Hartman, Studio Manager for Turn 10, says that there's currently over 400 people working on Forza 6, and the game is roughly at the mid-point of development.

PD is much smaller, and it will never have the same number of modelers that may have Turn 10 with contractors

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I see. That's also subject to debate. We routinely hear 130-140 at PD and we know they've hired recently, so possibly 150+ staff. People routinely throw around 300-400 at T10 but that IMO is not an accurate figure. Full time staff seems to be smaller than PD, but their numbers swell with contractors who work on a time limited basis as the title approaches completion. This is an older article but it sheds some light on the situation.

It is up to 400 about 4 years ago. It is likely not an accurate figure anymore, wouldn't be surprised if over 600 work on Forza franchise for most of the development time. It seems hard to get huge numbers of talented car artists locally too: Link so probably a bigger problem for PD.

Not expecting PD to catch up anytime soon, seems a lot of cuts are being made by Sony in most areas so good to see PD are still expanding. Hopefully one day Sony gets back to being in a position of financial strength.

 

[Lord Protector]

Alright I'm seriously tired of the waiting... Just gonna freeze myself for 2 years...

 

[Zuku]

Alright I'm seriously tired of the waiting... Just gonna freeze myself for 2 years...

And so it was Lord Protector froze himself for 1000 years instead of 2.

 

[SimTourist]

And so it was Lord Protector froze himself for 1000 years instead of 2.

And when he woken up GT7 was still nowhere to be seen.

 

[Zuku]

And when he woken up GT7 was still nowhere to be seen.

But there was hope for our hero. Sony had just released Playstation Quantum 7(Released after Alpha, Omega, Delta, and a ton of other names) complete with Gran Turismo Prototype 8. Still came with standards

 

[Johnnypenso]

But there was hope for our hero. Sony had just released Playstation Quantum 7(Released after Alpha, Omega, Delta, and a ton of other names) complete with Gran Turismo Prototype 8. Still came with standards

But 27,000 of them...

 

[BoneSawTX]

And when he woken up GT7 was still nowhere to be seen.

But he will get to see the preview of the Course Editor

 

[Pseudopod]

All he was able to find was an SD video of someone trying it out

 

[Imari]

It is up to 400 about 4 years ago. It is likely not an accurate figure anymore, wouldn't be surprised if over 600 work on Forza franchise for most of the development time. It seems hard to get huge numbers of talented car artists locally too: Link so probably a bigger problem for PD.

Not expecting PD to catch up anytime soon, seems a lot of cuts are being made by Sony in most areas so good to see PD are still expanding. Hopefully one day Sony gets back to being in a position of financial strength.

The problem with the 400 figure is that we don't know how many of those 400 are full time employees, and how many were contracted for a couple of weeks to do data collection on some rare cars that are stuck out in the wilderness somewhere.

If you cut the contracts short enough, 400 people will do less man hours than 150 full time employees. We know that PD has ~130+ full time staff. We know T10 has at least 70 full time staff. We don't know what the level of contractor involvement is beyond that, and pure numbers of contractors really don't paint that good a picture.

I currently work at a factory, and if we count all the people we get in to fix the plumbing and the electrics and so on you could probably safely say that there are 100 or more people working to keep it going. Or you could be more accurate and say that there's maybe 20 people that actually do most of the work, and they hire in specialists or extra hands as needed. Including me, I'm a contractor that has been hired for a specific project, and I'll leave when that job is done.

 

[Zuku]

All he was able to find was an SD video of someone trying it out

That he couldn't watch because Supreme Ultra 78KS Screens had become the norm, and had no backwards compatibility with SD format. Dark times loomed for our frozen comrade.

 

[Lord Protector]

I see you guys are having pretty good fun better talk about serious waiting for GT7 though, unless you want this thread locked

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The problem with the 400 figure is that we don't know how many of those 400 are full time employees, and how many were contracted for a couple of weeks to do data collection on some rare cars that are stuck out in the wilderness somewhere.

If you cut the contracts short enough, 400 people will do less man hours than 150 full time employees. We know that PD has ~130+ full time staff. We know T10 has at least 70 full time staff. We don't know what the level of contractor involvement is beyond that, and pure numbers of contractors really don't paint that good a picture.

I currently work at a factory, and if we count all the people we get in to fix the plumbing and the electrics and so on you could probably safely say that there are 100 or more people working to keep it going. Or you could be more accurate and say that there's maybe 20 people that actually do most of the work, and they hire in specialists or extra hands as needed. Including me, I'm a contractor that has been hired for a specific project, and I'll leave when that job is done.

It was like 150 full time workers. That is back in 2011 but as Wendl said that is tip of the ice berg. They must outsource a lot to hit the content targets (250 at time) and for a long time as they keep on making stuff for DLC and future games as it is relentless process given release schedules for Horizon and Motorsport series. As someone posted it is over 400 now for Forza 6. They have probably been the biggest Microsoft first party studio since the very first game and that shows real intent by Microsoft when they started the studio to outdo Sony's biggest first party franchise.

Like I said before I don't think PD will catch up anytime soon them levels and good to see that they are still expanding. They are probably similar size to Playground games. Given how small Evolution Studios are now, probably less than 60 people and Studio Liverpool got closed which had about 100 people working for them, it is tough times for a lot of Sony first party studios. Naughty Dog had to split their team in two to do Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us and they aren't that big in the first place. Cuts are being made at other first party studios too. I imagine studio size is one of the main reasons why it is taking a while for games like GT7 and Uncharted 4 to come out as they don't have the sheer manpower to release quicker.

 

[05XR8]

http://www.theverge.com/tldr/2015/6/1/8699573/sony-gran-turismo-7-come-on-where-is-it

Again, like annual sports games, 90% of GT's assets can be reused in a sequel, so why does it take so long to come out? Its not a matter of polish, as GT5 was anything but polished

It's like the McLaren 2015 F1 season. They'll keep doing the rounds and stay in the game. Everyone around them advancing and giving it their all. GT6 is a wash. Even with upgrades with tracks, VGT, fixes, etc. They're concentrating on "next season". PD are getting everything ready for next year's model. It will be advanced. Have new features. Upgrades will better its performance while on PS4. GT7 will come out like Ali instead of Tyson.

 

[Zuku]

I see you guys are having pretty good fun better talk about serious waiting for GT7 though, unless you want this thread locked

True just having some good fun though don't think they'd be too upset about that.

Came up with that cause was binge watching Futurama.