This game does everything in its power to demotivate me to play it

  • Thread starter Alex p.
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Alex p.

Alex p.

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alexpkas
I mean, the grinding was very bad as is, but with the recent update, not even the Tomahawk race works anymore. With the best grinding method NOW you're only at 50% of what you could grind with the Tomahawk. Yikes.
THEN there's the FFB "update". Seriously: I thought yesterday that my wheel is broken. I was about to contact Fanatec. It is that bad.

So considering all I do in this game is hotlapping, and grinding, which I need to buy all cars, to be able to hot lap them all, both of these recent "updates" COMPLETELY destroyed the game for me, and took ALL joy and fun away from it. I am literally at a point, where I want to give up on this game entirely, although it is literally the ONLY game I play. So yeah, just a lot of disappointment, anger, frustration and resignation on my side.

How do you feel about all this?
 
The patching of the Tomahawk was the biggest blow to moral to me. It really makes me want to race less in a racing game due simply not being rewarded enough for my time now. Other users on this site can call me lazy or entitled as they want but I simply do not have the time nor patience to spend an hour of my life for 1 million, especially not when some of these cars in this game cost upward of 5+ million. 5 hours of my life for 1 car? Not worth it.
 
In order to enjoy driving for the sake of driving I need cars, for that I need money. It all goes hand in hand. If there are not enough events that pay out well for the time invested than naturally a person like me who values their time more than a car in a video game is going to say 'no' and stop playing as much.

And ultimately this game is seemingly designed in such a way as to waste as much of my time as possible from the high priced cars, clunky menus, and low paying events.
 
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Meythia
It is 1.65 million per houw if you just do it twice, and I dont see any reason to own all cars of you dont want to drive them all.
In my opinion, you wouldnt complain about payout per time if you just drive to drive. Money comes and goes regardless.
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But I DO want to drive them all. Is this not "The real DRIVING simulator"? Is this game not about collecting cars, like an carpg? Is this game not about...y'know?...DRIVING cars? So how exactly CAN you drive cars, when you CAN NOT afford them, because you DO NOT have the time to grind for HUNDREDS of hours, 'cause y'know...you have A LIFE with responsibilities and all that?
So all your smart arguments on how people are just too "lazy" are entirely worthless. Fact is: the game does NOT respect the player's time AT ALL. AND it wants you to spend REAL MONEY to buy VIRTUAL cars.
So what exactly is there to justify or protect about it? I really don't get it...
 
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Alex p.
But I DO want to drive them all.
Click to expand...

This already would earn you more credits than you spend.
Okay, very likely not true because of the more pricey ones.

But my intention is to say: there is no need to bank money to buy cars.
No need to Tomahawk twice to by two cars when you could instead buy one car, drive it, and make the reward buy the next one. Does also feel much more rewarding and fun I think instead of "target millions per hour so I can do what I want afterwards".
 
Meythia
This already would earn you more credits than you spend.
Okay, very likely not true because of the more pricey ones.

But my intention is to say: there is no need to bank money to buy cars.
No need to Tomahawk twice to by two cars when you could instead buy one car, drive it, and make the reward buy the next one. Does also feel much more rewarding and fun I think instead of "target millions per hour so I can do what I want afterwards".
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That may be the way you enjoy playing, which there nothing wrong with that, but it isn't really the way I enjoy playing. This is one of the biggest faults of GT I think - the game doesn't appeal to a variety of play styles and instead tries its best to lock the user into what PD deems is the 'correct' way to play.

For example, take the UCD/LCD, I know there are people out there that enjoy buying a used car and hunting for bargains, but when you lock away half the car list behind such a mechanic it becomes demotivating to even collect the cars you'd like to drive since you'll never be able to own them in the colour you want and with 0 mileage, let alone be able to buy them whenever you wanted.
 
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The ultimate measure of success of GT7 was to be in 2022 what Gran Turismo 1 was in 1998. Or even to be what GT4 was in 2004 - that is, a game that is exceptional for its time. If they did this, then GT7 would easily be in the discussion for the greatest racing game ever.

If it didnt reach those dizzying heights, it could still be a great game. Because the expectation to me is that every racing game should be an evolution of - and therefore better than - its predecessors. Even if the improvements arent as big of a leap, the longer development and new technology means that each game should be better.

But at the moment with the FFB issue, GT7 is a worse game than GT Sport is right now. That's pretty inexcusable considering the hype for this game and especially because every shortcoming of GT Sport was blamed on it not being a "numbered" GT.
 
I yse Trustmaster T150 and FFB is the same. I think that FFB in GT Sport and GT7 is the same, and it's best in all racing games I have ever played.
About grinding. I don't understand why new races give only 100-200K. I would like to grind by Daytona, but it ill take too long.

I wanted to buy all cars, only 18 cars and 115M remain. But it will get too much time with 727,5K for 26min grinding race (about 78 hours).
I hope that somebody will find the way to return Tokio grinding. I don't think that there will be new good grind races in future.
 
Meythia
This already would earn you more credits than you spend.
Okay, very likely not true because of the more pricey ones.

But my intention is to say: there is no need to bank money to buy cars.
No need to Tomahawk twice to by two cars when you could instead buy one car, drive it, and make the reward buy the next one. Does also feel much more rewarding and fun I think instead of "target millions per hour so I can do what I want afterwards".
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This is just nonsensical gibberish. You do realize, that there comes a point QUICKLY using your tactics, where you will simply be FORCED to grind for hours for ONE new car? It's simple math.

giphy (1).gif
 
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Alex p.
This is just nonsensical gibberish. You do realize, that there comes a point QUICKLY using your tactics, where you will simply be FORCED to grind for hours a ONE new car? It's simple math.
Click to expand...

If it needs 408 million credits after all guaranteed prize cars have been obtained, you also recieve around 47 million by track experience, another 12 million for human comedym, goes down to 349 million credits required by repetetive events, of the higher than usual payout events WTC 600/700/800 most of them will be a gain instead of a loss as long as you are not running expensive legendary cars.

I am not convinced nor do I care enough to check how if this will be a profit or loss if you drive every car on every event for victory and mony.
 
Meythia
If it needs 408 million credits after all guaranteed prize cars have been obtained, you also recieve around 47 million by track experience, another 12 million for human comedym, goes down to 349 million credits required by repetetive events, of the higher than usual payout events WTC 600/700/800 most of them will be a gain instead of a loss as long as you are not running expensive legendary cars.

I am not convinced nor do I care enough to check how if this will be a profit or loss if you drive every car on every event for victory and mony.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly, you have no idea. All it would take would be to count/multiply by head, but apparently this is not your strong suit.
 
I've seen multiple accounts of this line of reasoning both on these forums and on Reddit that the players who grind Tokyo on Tomahawk just simply don't understand how to play the game "correctly". Given that most players somehow were able to play previous installations of GT in the way it was intended, I find it odd that a significant proportion of the playerbase just somehow collectively lost their minds somewhere between the release of GT Sport and GT 7 and decided that they want to play GT 7 in the most repetitive and least enjoyable way possible. Or, you know, perhaps there's an issue with the game design?

Imagine this fictional conversation with your past self and a representative of PD
You: Man, I cant wait to play the next installment of GT finally returning to its roots so I can again experience the different cars and racing disciplines while earning all the wonderful different cars GT has to offer!
PD: Yeah, we're not gonna have a career mode. You'll spend a few weeks doing catch up events with rolling starts which sort of resembles racing and you can earn some cars while you're at it. It'll be shortlived though. We call them the Menu Books. After that there are of course Circuit experiences and Missions akin to previous games.
You: Well that doesn't sound so bad, I can just experience the single player in a different way then while still collecting my favourite cars.
PD: Actually, most of the stuff in our single player doesn't reward you with much of anything in terms of credits or cars so if you're into collecting cars you're out of luck. We do have some lottery tickets though which can award you a customized suspension for your '14 Golf GTI - if you're lucky, that is.
You: Ok... So how do I buy cars then? I thought that was kind of the thing in GT games.
PD: We'll, you can play the game like we intended and earn a coveted collectable every 4 months or so. Or... you can repeatedly drive Spa 24h, Le Mans or a fictional track event if you'd rather earn them in a more reasonable timeframe.
You: That... doesn't sound great, although I do love Spa and I hear that the weather effects and driving in the night will look amazing. I'll just do a few races here and there and then spend the rest of my time doing what I actually enjoy and buy the cars when I feel like it.
PD: Except you can't. We decided that the rarest cars will show up for sale between intervals of a month or two for a window of few days. If you happen to fancy a McLaren F1, it'll be worth 12 to 13 24h Spa events or in terms of time invested, 12-13 hours. So better get those tire strategies ready!
You: That sounds a bit rough. I have a job, wife and two kids, how am I supposed to find the time for that? I'd also rather not wait for two months for it to show up again.
PD: Well, we actually have an event just for that. Basically you drive around the streets of Tokyo in an endless loop in something that looks like a mix of a Red Bull concept car and the Batmobile and is in every imaginable way the antithesis of a real driving experience. To add some flavour, you'll occasionally crash into the much slower AI vehicles and be rewarded with a time penalty and a temporary breakdown to the cars handling. Sounds great right?
You: ...
 
HarVee
The patching of the Tomahawk was the biggest blow to moral to me. It really makes me want to race less in a racing game due simply not being rewarded enough for my time now. Other users on this site can call me lazy or entitled as they want but I simply do not have the time nor patience to spend an hour of my life for 1 million, especially not when some of these cars in this game cost upward of 5+ million. 5 hours of my life for 1 car? Not worth it.
Click to expand...
So, you're going to waste all that time grinding to get a handful of expensive cars? Instead of you know, driving and enjoying the ones you do have...
 
VR
I've seen multiple accounts of this line of reasoning both on these forums and on Reddit that the players who grind Tokyo on Tomahawk just simply don't understand how to play the game "correctly". Given that most players somehow were able to play previous installations of GT in the way it was intended, I find it odd that a significant proportion of the playerbase just somehow collectively lost their minds somewhere between the release of GT Sport and GT 7 and decided that they want to play GT 7 in the most repetitive and least enjoyable way possible. Or, you know, perhaps there's an issue with the game design?

Imagine this fictional conversation with your past self and a representative of PD
You: Man, I cant wait to play the next installment of GT finally returning to its roots so I can again experience the different cars and racing disciplines while earning all the wonderful different cars GT has to offer!
PD: Yeah, we're not gonna have a career mode. You'll spend a few weeks doing catch up events with rolling starts which sort of resembles racing and you can earn some cars while you're at it. It'll be shortlived though. We call them the Menu Books. After that there are of course Circuit experiences and Missions akin to previous games.
You: Well that doesn't sound so bad, I can just experience the single player in a different way then while still collecting my favourite cars.
PD: Actually, most of the stuff in our single player doesn't reward you with much of anything in terms of credits or cars so if you're into collecting cars you're out of luck. We do have some lottery tickets though which can award you a customized suspension for your '14 Golf GTI - if you're lucky, that is.
You: Ok... So how do I buy cars then? I thought that was kind of the thing in GT games.
PD: We'll, you can play the game like we intended and earn a coveted collectable every 4 months or so. Or... you can repeatedly drive Spa 24h, Le Mans or a fictional track event if you'd rather earn them in a more reasonable timeframe.
You: That... doesn't sound great, although I do love Spa and I hear that the weather effects and driving in the night will look amazing. I'll just do a few races here and there and then spend the rest of my time doing what I actually enjoy and buy the cars when I feel like it.
PD: Except you can't. We decided that the rarest cars will show up for sale between intervals of a month or two for a window of few days. If you happen to fancy a McLaren F1, it'll be worth 12 to 13 24h Spa events or in terms of time invested, 12-13 hours. So better get those tire strategies ready!
You: That sounds a bit rough. I have a job, wife and two kids, how am I supposed to find the time for that? I'd also rather not wait for two months for it to show up again.
PD: Well, we actually have an event just for that. Basically you drive around the streets of Tokyo in an endless loop in something that looks like a mix of a Red Bull concept car and the Batmobile and is in every imaginable way the antithesis of a real driving experience. To add some flavour, you'll occasionally crash into the much slower AI vehicles and be rewarded with a time penalty and a temporary breakdown to the cars handling. Sounds great right?
You: ...
Click to expand...
This is brilliant! Just goes to show how ignorant PD have become.
 
Meythia
If it needs 408 million credits after all guaranteed prize cars have been obtained, you also recieve around 47 million by track experience, another 12 million for human comedym, goes down to 349 million credits required by repetetive events, of the higher than usual payout events WTC 600/700/800 most of them will be a gain instead of a loss as long as you are not running expensive legendary cars.

I am not convinced nor do I care enough to check how if this will be a profit or loss if you drive every car on every event for victory and mony.
Click to expand...
Well the math is rather easy, if a player averages a million credits an hour grinding, and we assume the gold all the Track Experiences and Missions (which is not going to be true for all), and they play for an hour a day on average, it will take them a solid year of grinding to get all the cars in the game (and that's assuming no changes to Legendary prices and doesn't count new cars being added).

A year of running the same event in the same car, over and over and over and over again.

That's quite clearly describing a fundamentally broken game mechanic, one that PD is happy to see broken (because MTX), as clearly demonstrated by the fact that they nerf every high credit grind event as soon as they can after its unearthed by players.

To be blunt PD have played a slight-of-hand that a worrying number of people are quite happy to accept. The game economy at launch was broken, PD then made it worse, before rolling it back to a similar level to the launch one, PD didn't fix the in-game economy, they simply moved it from absurdly broken back to just plain broken. Oh, and no, locking high earning races in missions to make the pay-outs a one-off wasn't a fix either, rather further evidence that this is how PD want the game economy.
 
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Scaff
That's quite clearly describing a fundamentally broken game mechanic, one that PD is happy to see broken (because MTX), as clearly demonstrated by the fact that they nerf every high credit grind event as soon as they can after its unearthed by players.

To be blunt PD have played a slight-of-hand that a worrying number of people are quite happy to accept. The game economy at launch was broken, PD then made it worse, before rolling it back to a similar level to the launch one, PD didn't fix the in-game economy, they simply moved it from absurdly broken back to just plain broken. Oh, and no, locking high earning races in missions to make the pay-outs a one-off wasn't a fix either, rather further evidence that this is how PD want the game economy.
Click to expand...
Within a design that attempts to simulate markets it is broken from the perspective of time required, but I guess they dont expect any casually playing person to want to have any car available (because there isnt even a trophy for that).
 
I'm not saying many of you have no idea what the earlier games were like as I do growing up. Many of you do, and many of you played them your way, much like I did. I have an issue with the way GT7 forces things on you, and ruins the experience.

In GT4, the BEST GT game by a long shot, you had a clear path to go through, and you had to decide how to get there. Credits for early races tunes your car, to get through faster events. You had to have a license to race in certain sections, and you had to have very specific types of vehicles for lots of race classes. You could start with a Japanese ****box and then move up to a respectable car in the $30K range and drive, and tune, and get as much out of it as possible. Fighting for those credits to afford upgrades or that next car you needed. Once you had a FF, MR, FR and 4WD car, you could do anything with the right tuning. You could be selective in how you approached racing.

GT7, spoon feeds you collections of cars, some of which you don't want, but can't sell, drips used cars into the used car lot, but repeats the same 30 cars over and over again. The legendary cars are so absurdly priced you have to pick and choose what to buy, and work so hard to get them... And then you have no real events to use them, so you spent $14 million on a car for a scapes photo.

You could go race online, but with the penalty system giving you 3 seconds for being hit, and the guy who hit you gets to pass you and no penalty, it seems a bit... Broken. Lobbies? God forbid you want to drive a car you like and not get slammed into by every Tom, Dick and Harry from another country running the latest glitched configuration for the lap times.

I got on last night, and loaded the update. I stared at the screen and thought "what can I race in 30 minutes, that will give a little payout and satisfaction?". I turned the game off. No daily ticket, no 100K for some race. Just felt defeated.

If you want this to be a grind for a minimal amount of cars, across tons of tracks, requiring tuning to get the job done, make it that game. If you want to spoon feed us cars around every corner, and hold our hands to collect them all, then make that game. Don't base the ENTIRE GAME around collecting all the cars then remove payouts and grinding to acquire credits, forcing either hours that I don't have, or microtransactions which I won't do. You can't have it both ways.

I knew this game would be a failure. After GT Sport, I knew the direction this game was heading was worse overall, but I had no idea it would be this bad. It's sad too. I have been a day 1 adopter of GT. Have every game, and every console to play them on (no not the super rare versions, or portable versions). What is sad is how much trial and error stuff they create, only to limit the feature, then turn off the ability to play it. We used to create our own tracks, remember? We used to be able play offline. We all used to enjoy our Toyota MR2, on sport soft tires sliding around corners of PD created tracks, eeking out every last dollar from the game to afford that better car.

Now we log in, run a few menu books and have 27 high end cars to play with, none of which work for any other race, none of our favorite tracks from the past (don't sell me on the idea about licensing, tracks that PD created have only one license to deal with, and his name is Kaz), and a broken credit reward system that limits what you can get, sometimes only paying out once...

And the daily ticket systems? **** outta here with that. Wow, $5,000 credits daily. Only 6 more months until I can afford a Honda Civic.

This game is broken. Top to bottom. If you don't think so, you are the few that share the PD way of doing things. I don't mind the grind to acquire cars and parts. I don't mind working hard to win. I don't even mind it taking some time. But explicitly patching things out of the game that you yourself created, because people are using it to help them move forward is shameful. From the curb glitches, broken BOP system, horrible penalty system, abysmal payout system, lack of tracks, layouts and events, and now FFB issues, this game is crumbling into a pile of ****.

I guess I'll boot up my PS2 and run GT4 again. At least I know what the rules are in that game.
 
Meythia
Within a design that attempts to simulate markets it is broken from the perspective of time required, but I guess they dont expect any casually playing person to want to have any car available (because there isnt even a trophy for that).
Click to expand...
Collecting all the cars is a repeated and central theme of the title (it even has a screen dedicated to it that updates and informs you every time you acquire a car! That aside most people who buy a game with 400+ cars reasonably expect to be able to experience them, casual player or not.
 
Scaff
Collecting all the cars is a repeated and central theme of the title (it even has a screen dedicated to it that updates and informs you every time you acquire a car! That aside most people who buy a game with 400+ cars reasonably expect to be able to experience them, casual player or not.
Click to expand...
The problem is, there’s not much game here. After the very short cafe ‘campaign’ you’re left to select from a small handful of races at will, with no clear direction, other than to find the most efficient race for the most pay out, which you then run over and over. so even when you do eventually collect the cars you want, there’s no way for the ’casual gamer’ to really experience them, unless they enjoy hot lapping I suppose, or are willing to invest in online events.

theres the driving for driving sake argument, but when every gran turismo game before sport solved the above problem, it begs the question why GT7 is lacking in this area.
 
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Scaff
Collecting all the cars is a repeated and central theme of the title (it even has a screen dedicated to it that updates and informs you every time you acquire a car!
Click to expand...
"Driving Simulator" is something different than "Collection Simulator". Collecting is effort and comes at a price, but I can only speak for myself when I say: in no GT did I ever have every car, nor was I interested in trying to get them all. It is not Pokemon were it actually is the central theme.
As for the info screen: sure it does, why would you want to hide any kind of information like that.
(World of Warcraft would also tell you how much of whatever you have collected, but just a few gamers ever tried for 100%, and dont come around with different kind of game: you can see both as a collecting game just to invalidate this point in advance.)
Scaff
That aside most people who buy a game with 400+ cars reasonably expect to be able to experience them, casual player or not.
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If the developers want you to do this, today they connect it with a trophy. That has also been a standard for a long time now.
If you want to go the extra mile, the path is clear ahead. Whether this is fun or not solely depends on the methods you choose to reach the finish line.
 
Scaff
To be blunt PD have played a slight-of-hand that a worrying number of people are quite happy to accept. The game economy at launch was broken, PD then made it worse, before rolling it back to a similar level to the launch one, PD didn't fix the in-game economy, they simply moved it from absurdly broken back to just plain broken. Oh, and no, locking high earning races in missions to make the pay-outs a one-off wasn't a fix either, rather further evidence that this is how PD want the game economy.
Click to expand...
This is what I suspected when they actually went to 'fix' the economy issues. It was simply a band-aid solution in order to get the heat off their backs, but now that heat is gone (at least, through typical media channels, certainly not through the general player base) they're already trial ballooning returning back to the in game launch economy, which works to **** over anyone that comes in from now on. Reminds me a lot of GT Sport's microtransactions, actually, where they proudly touted that they wouldn't add them in...and did so a year later when no one except the general player base was looking, and said player base effectively shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

shenfrey
The problem is, there’s not much game here. After the very short cafe ‘campaign’ you’re left to select from a small handful of races at will, with no clear direction, other than to find the most efficient race for the most pay out, which you then run over and over. so even when you do eventually collect the cars you want, there’s no way for the ’casual gamer’ to really experience them, unless they enjoy hot lapping I suppose, or are willing to invest in online events.

theres the driving for driving sake argument, but when every gran turmiso game before sport solved the above problem, it begs the question why GT7 is lacking in this area.
Click to expand...
This is the biggest point. What's left once you're done with the menus? There's very little consistent theming with the events, and what theming is there is nowhere near as creative as it could be, or anywhere near the older titles in this regard. Everything ultimately falls back on either car collecting (so basically, grinding) and artificially waiting for the next car to reach the UCD or Legends Pavilion, or online, which is rife with it's own problems. There's little point in racing for your own sake considering the AI issues, specifically the rubber-banding, rear their head here, and the rewards for doing it are so pitiful that it makes you wonder why they even bothered.

So if this is all the case, which it is, what's the point in continuing to play the game and hoping that maybe it might turn out to be a better game in six months to a year? All you need to do is look at Polyphony's prior history to see that they don't have the real ability to make a live service game, and I don't trust them in the slightest to be able to fix the problems with this game (nor the actual series), to see that there isn't much meat left on this bone.
 

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