Thoughts on missing "on the box" features?

[DarthTurismo]

I'm sure this has been debated over and over in other threads right???? surely by now it is obvious the game was far from ready to be launched but Sony (and the fanbase) squeezed PD for a release before xmas..... here is the end result.. a game while good in key areas is missing a lot of its "expected" content...

If i remember correctly we (as in the fans) were screaming for blood because the game was not released and kept getting pushed back... "release it now and patch the missing stuff etc etc" well they've done that and they still get crucified.....

When they announced the release date i knew for sure it would ship complete with bugs and missing content.... it was quite obvious from cryptic tweets and various trails of info that Kaz was not ready to launch....

I am confident that they WILL patch the missing content over the next few months... exactly when is not for sure... after all PD have problems advising us exactly what the patches are rectifying ;-)

 

[Luminis]

I can see you are disappointed that these features are missing. Sorry, but that's life. Disappointments come. Things sometimes don't meet your expectations. The product, GT5 is what it is.

Yeah, wise words, Confucius.

However, ignoring problems usually doesn't solve them. Talking about them directs attention towards them, at the very least.

 

[bodger]

I have a solution....

*Click*

Ah. Peace and quiet.

Yes, very.

 

[bodger]

Yeah, wise words, Confucius.

However, ignoring problems usually doesn't solve them. Talking about them directs attention towards them, at the very least.

True enough. But are the right people listening that have the power to do anything about it? If you really care, write direct to Sony/DP.

 

[Devedander]

Not exactly. I think I'm aware of what people are complaining about all too well. All I'm asking is why this is such a huge deal.

It sure didn't look like that the way peple ahd to tell you what was missing and you asked if it was only one feature really...

My UK box must be a little different to yours. Online B-spec is coming by the way. Apparently. So this leaves matchmaking - which I personally I'm not a fan of, but I'm sure you'll dive in telling me its causing you physical pain in its absence, CR for online racing, and the course sharing we've already talked about. A positive, overflowing tidal wave of missing functionality...call the lawyers!

It's coming doesn't mean it's not missing, it's the definition of missing. Also there is no certainty to when and how complete it will be in coming (look at damage which surprised most people by being online damage only).

And your silly argument that it has to cause me physical pain to be of importance is just fecicious. If I steal all your money, am I causing you physical pain? No, but would you be rightful to be upset? I would think so.

Your need for drastic extrems and hyperbole to make a point shows how weak your point is... as if the only options are "it's perfectly fine" and "lawsuit time!" and if it's not one it's the other...

Ironically I think this actually toes dangerously the realm of lawsuit time...

True enough. But are the right people listening that have the power to do anything about it? If you really care, write direct to Sony/DP.

You should be a politician... you are great at dodging, changing the point and putting up false requirements for things to be a legitimate concern.

Frist what are the problems, then it's only one problem, then ok it's many problems but technically they weren't all in writing, then it's but they say they are putting it in so it's not missing, then it's ok so it's missing but it doesn't physically harm you, then it's ok so it's really bad but is this the place to talk about it...

Do you ever get tired of being wrong and do you ever realize how short your high horse really is?

 

[bodger]

It sure didn't look like that the way peple ahd to tell you what was missing and you asked if it was only one feature really...



It's coming doesn't mean it's not missing, it's the definition of missing. Also there is no certainty to when and how complete it will be in coming (look at damage which surprised most people by being online damage only).

And your silly argument that it has to cause me physical pain to be of importance is just fecicious. If I steal all your money, am I causing you physical pain? No, but would you be rightful to be upset? I would think so.

Your need for drastic extrems and hyperbole to make a point shows how weak your point is... as if the only options are "it's perfectly fine" and "lawsuit time!" and if it's not one it's the other...

Ironically I think this actually toes dangerously the realm of lawsuit time...

Yes, you got me, I was pulling your leg with that one. It was hyperbole to reflect the hyperbole over a few missing features that this thread is demonstrating.

Are these missing features really like stealing someone's money?

My horse isn't particularly high. I'm just curious as to why there is so much grief over these missing features. And surprise really. Not the first time a game developer has done this.

 

[Luminis]

True enough. But are the right people listening that have the power to do anything about it? If you really care, write direct to Sony/DP.

Considerin it's been them that mentioned watching the community, GTPlanet seems to be one of the best places to actually post stuff like this.

Yes, you got me, I was pulling your leg with that one. It was hyperbole to reflect the hyperbole over a few missing features that this thread is demonstrating.

What hyperbole? People being thoroughly disappointed because they have to grind offline instead of playing with friends online if they want to earn some credits to buy/upgrade the cars they want?
That, for one, is an incredibly valid complaint. To some, it's like a kick in the family jewels, I guess.

My horse isn't particularly high. I'm just curious as to why there is so much grief over these missing features.

They were advertised, they sounded great, they would enable to do stuff that some people would deem important and/or fun. It's to be expected that people will get upset about it.

And surprise really. Not the first time a game developer has done this.

Not the first time people have been upset about it, either.
But, I've got to admit, I've rarely seen so many guys defending an obviously flawed product like this.

 

[Dravonic]

Freaking ridiculous. I really hope those features are included soon. But as everyone around here know, to PD soon means a couple of years.

Slightly off topic but what is wrong with not being able to change individual gear ratios with the full transmission??? That's seriously screwed up. Three updates and it still doesn't work...

 

[Devedander]

Yes, you got me, I was pulling your leg with that one. It was hyperbole to reflect the hyperbole over a few missing features that this thread is demonstrating.

Are these missing features really like stealing someone's money?

In that they both are legitimate concerns but don't cause you physical pain?

Yes.

Return question: How long does this go on before we can officially lable you a troll and not participating in a valuable and meaningful way in the forums at all?

 

[JimInPT]

Credits for online races is, for example, something that very well has a pretty big impact on how the game plays. With that feature added, people could instantly stop grinding A-Spec or B-Spec for credits and hop online instead.

Not to mention, of course, that GT5 Prologue has had online race credits, matchmaking and leaderboards for 2.5 years. I've run more than 200 online races on the Daytona oval in Prologue to build credits.

How could all of these disappear from Prologue to final release? The code existed.

 

[Hardrocky]

I was actually sad when I heard that the PS3 would have internet capability. I've been around long enough to know that "internet connection" to a developer, means, "release half assed **** now, maybe try to fix later by patch".
Anyone who thinks this stuff will get fixed is dreaming. They never fixed the inverted scan line problem with GT4, they just went on to the next one.

 

[XxMerlinxX]

I can see you are disappointed that these features are missing. Sorry, but that's life. Disappointments come. Things sometimes don't meet your expectations. The product, GT5 is what it is.

What an idiotic mentality. So you're telling me that when you go buy something that has advertised features, say a car for instance, that if the car doesn't come with the listed features then you should just take it in stride because, "Oh well, that's life."???

Hey, I've got some beachfront property I could sell you real cheap.

 

[Devedander]

What an idiotic mentality. So you're telling me that when you go buy something that has advertised features, say a car for instance, that if the car doesn't come with the listed features then you should just take it in stride because, "Oh well, that's life."???

Hey, I've got some beachfront property I could sell you real cheap.

And if he complains there is no actual beach attached just explain that's how it is, life has dissapointments, deal with it.

 

[Terronium-12]

 

[bodger]

And if he complains there is no actual beach attached just explain that's how it is, life has dissapointments, deal with it.

And this is where we lose touch with the bigger picture. I think I'm not the only one 'incorrectly' reading posts. My point is, these are not deal breakers. If said beach front property had perfect views, was excellently located, excellently appointed, but somewhere in the relator's details it mentioned that the kitchen came with halogen spot lights and it turned out to be a standard single bulb light, and that the details also stated that you got two sinks in the en-suite and there was only one - would it be a complete deal breaker? Would you actually be surprised? Would it cause me to vent with anger and say the whole property wasn't worth bothering with and that the Agent effectively stole from me? No. I'd be disappointed, I'd move in, let the agent know and move on.

I think your comparison is essentially flawed anyway, because software is a different business. Overruns, feature creep, and the box and manual getting printed before the software is complete is common place. It happens. It isn't what I want as a consumer, but it happens.

 

[bodger]

What an idiotic mentality. So you're telling me that when you go buy something that has advertised features, say a car for instance, that if the car doesn't come with the listed features then you should just take it in stride because, "Oh well, that's life."???

Hey, I've got some beachfront property I could sell you real cheap.

You've misunderstood my point.

What features would they be? Engine a 2.0L when brochure says 3.5L, oh yes. Brochure says you get lockable glove box and it doesn't - not worth the reactions seen here.

 

[Scoop2004]

There is a leaderboard...sort of, click A and B on your friends list in community and see which of your friends you have more XP than...

 

[bodger]

There is a leaderboard...sort of, click A and B on your friends list in community and see which of your friends you have more XP than...

True, the real leaderboards will come anyway. I think this is pretty much a given, seen how the Academy thing is coming up.

 

[bodger]

I was actually sad when I heard that the PS3 would have internet capability. I've been around long enough to know that "internet connection" to a developer, means, "release half assed **** now, maybe try to fix later by patch".
Anyone who thinks this stuff will get fixed is dreaming. They never fixed the inverted scan line problem with GT4, they just went on to the next one.

Oh yes, "the inverted scan line problem". Yes, the millions who bought GT4 will know exactly what you mean when you talk about that, I'm sure.

Totally ruined all enjoyment of the game for everyone who bought it.

 

[warpspeed2slow]

I was actually sad when I heard that the PS3 would have internet capability. I've been around long enough to know that "internet connection" to a developer, means, "release half assed **** now, maybe try to fix later by patch".
Anyone who thinks this stuff will get fixed is dreaming. They never fixed the inverted scan line problem with GT4, they just went on to the next one.

Actually, they weren't online with GT4 so.... That they didn't fix it, is not surprising.

By using your logic, since they released it "half assed" because of the internetz connectivity. It is actually more likely for the problems to be fixed with patches, no?

 

[Luminis]

My point is, these are not deal breakers.

They may not be dealbreakers to you. Having to grind to actually get to the point where you can enjoy the game with friends might, on the other hand, very well be a dealbreaker for other people.

Or turn it from an awesome deal into a medioocre one.

 

[bodger]

They may not be dealbreakers to you. Having to grind to actually get to the point where you can enjoy the game with friends might, on the other hand, very well be a dealbreaker for other people.

Or turn it from an awesome deal into a medioocre one.

Fair point. Cr's in online would be nice.

 

[Luminis]

Fair point. Cr's in online would be nice.

It's the same with the other features, though.

Not having leaderboards will be a severe blow to someone who's a dedicated hotlapper. It's a matter of perspective.

 

[Holyman]

To be honest, whether the box had been completely plain, with just "GT5" printed on it; or it had complete tracts from the Bible, Bhagvad Gita and the Tibetan Book of the Dead, promising "IT'S ALL TRUE!"...

I would still have bought the Game.

I am quite frustrated with the dynamics of the Game, and disappointed at the lack of functionality and features that I figured PD should have been able to deliver with 5 years of development time.

But the core of Gran Turismo, the graphics and driving physics, are still there to console my disappointments.

TBH, if I wanted to vent my frustrations on PD by launching a legal action to prove that I was deliberately misled into buying the Game by falsely advertised features...

I think I'd have a *REAL* hard time proving that any advertising at all had any influence on my decision to buy the Game.

 

[bodger]

It's the same with the other features, though.

Not so much.



I think the leader-boards will come.

 

[Luminis]

Not so much.



I think the leader-boards will come.

Yeah, they will come, sometime. Doesn't change the fact that, right now, a dedicated hotlapper could (and probably should) be pretty pissed about them missing.

 

[Dravonic]

I think the leader-boards will come.

Oh, don't worry. They will come soon.

 

[dominic280378]

There is a major difference between an MMO like World of Warcraft, and a boxed game like GT5. An MMO is subscription based, so the consumer continues to have leverage beyond the boxed sale. GT5 is not. PD are not obligated to put out ANY patches if they don't feel like it, since they made the sale based on the boxed content. That is what makes this particular issue so problematic for me.

For what it's worth, I think there are many other features that should be in the game and aren't. I hope they will be patched in. But most of them were not advertised as being in the game, on the back of the box. Leaderboards and matchmaking were, so there is an expectation that they are delivered quickly, or at least that their absence is justified in some way to the consumer, and taken seriously.

I mentioned the fact that PD are under no obligation now to release DLC, they already have our money, but I was shouted down! if they advertised features and they never appear surely theres some case to made for false advertising?
It'll be interesting to see what happens with DLC, more than likely the backlash over the release caused PD's dev team to stop working on DLC and instead focus on patching so I guess there will be some trade off. Developers can't work on new events and patch it at the same time.

 

[bodger]

Developers can't work on new events and patch it at the same time.

Whose to say its the same developers? Its quite a big team...

 

[dominic280378]

Whose to say its the same developers? Its quite a big team...

Yes but they have to make the updates reasonable in size, and people seem to be more worried about missing features and bugs rather than new cars and tracks. There seems to new tweets from Kaz regarding the next patch