Time Trial Discussion

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Talon16
Soooo... what's up with this? Another TT available? I've nnot turned my PS5 on yet so just going by the website:

www.gran-turismo.com

gran-turismo.com

Gran Turismo Official Website
www.gran-turismo.com www.gran-turismo.com

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Also of note, according to the website the two RA272 TTs expire on 9/15 but within the game it says they expire on 9/1. I trust the game, but if you're not paying close attention just know you have less time than what the site says (I assume).
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half_sourly
And Suzuka for the young'uns. There were also some regionals last summer (3 US for the Porsche Esports Challenge; 7 in Japan - 6 as a series of Bridgestone tie-ins and a "All Japan Prefectural eSports Championship 2023 KAGOSHIMA") so I'm expecting more to roll in. A couple more followed in Autumn for GB and Japan. You can link to results for all those (not U17s) from here if interested.
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As I mentioned last week, there was likely to be a few more Summer events.
 
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half_sourly
Interim Results for TT93 at Red Bull Ring in Gr.3 cars. At this interim stage it is the 19th most difficult TT to date on my difficulty-o-meter.
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I think we can all agree that it's time for everyone to stop trying on RBR and go to something other, like... Anything?

:lol:
 
Talon16
Soooo... what's up with this? Another TT available? I've nnot turned my PS5 on yet so just going by the website:

www.gran-turismo.com

gran-turismo.com

Gran Turismo Official Website
www.gran-turismo.com www.gran-turismo.com

296_ba4b071eea886da19cb99672cb2e588b.png




Also of note, according to the website the two RA272 TTs expire on 9/15 but within the game it says they expire on 9/1. I trust the game, but if you're not paying close attention just know you have less time than what the site says (I assume).
Click to expand...
It's impressive how many manufacturers PD are getting to run competitions in GT now. You've got the Toyota Cup, the Mazda Spirit Racing competition in Japan, the Porsche competitions in the US, the Honda eSports cup and now Mercedes.

I guess it makes sense to focus on manufacturers since it seems racing championship licences tend to be leaning towards the PC sims nowadays where they get full attention.
 
Chris30


Well, that's it. No more Eiger TT's, I don't care what car it is. Almost 200 laps and nothing much, you can see I made one more effort with the MT and you see how that went, down south. Good, another HSR TT, I did gold the LM55 one back a year ago.

My placement was not the best, i was ranked 77,946th at Eiger, so a majority of players were faster than me, :boggled:


I swear!...
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TumeK5
@Famine Just out of curiosity, I checked, and the last time short shifting was mentioned (besides @NAXEHT to @Lomic and myself) was on page 991...
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I will be blunt here, I am doubtful Chris even knows he can watch replays of the top drivers short shifting from the in game TT leaderboards. Which is utterly baffling to me as checking the top replays to see what the aliens are doing is the very first thing I do before starting a time trial.

Without using ghosts and/or the top drivers’ replays as a reference (or trying to figure out where he could go faster), Chris is basically slinging mud at a wall and seeing what sticks.

And this is coming from a high A DR player that got Gold by a tenth. Don’t get me wrong, this was a very difficult time trial. But expecting Gold to just drop into one’s lap without any sort of preparation and/or reflection is exceedingly naive.
IMG_4056.jpeg
 
@Chris30 I dont agree with either Famine or the tone RX8 Racer is using.

First of all, not everyone of us can drive constantly in all sectors of a track in 10 laps, some of us need more. And until you achieve that it can last 10 laps yes, but on some tracks it can go way higher. Even after around 40 laps in Eiger, I couldnt get the lap I wanted on every corner.

As for What RX8 wrote, instead of bashing him directly, why not try to ask things before assuming. And explain to people how you can watch the top time, because while it's obvious you can download the replay and put it on your playstation, the way to view the shift use, the driving aids, etc.. is not obvious at all. You have to go all the way out of the TT you are doing, go to the house with the search icon on it (which the name is not coming in my mind right now), then the replay section and watch the replay you download there. You see RX8 Racer, this is doing the same thing you do but instead of implying something about Chris, it inform everyone on the way to check topleader ranking without being an asshole to anybody.
 
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RX-7_FD3S
First of all, not everyone of us can drive constantly in all sectors of a track in 10 laps, some of us need more. And until you achieve that it can last 10 laps yes, but on some tracks it can go way higher. Even after around 40 laps in Eiger, I couldnt get the lap I wanted on every corner.
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I'm not talking about getting your best lap, but getting an idea of what your best lap could be.

After ten laps you'll have recorded enough clean times in enough sectors to have a clear idea of your optimal lap if you can knit everything together. Even accounting for that one corner you just can't get right (and we all know that feeling), your optimal time will be ballpark. You may need to keep going to get it, but you'll know roughly where it is.

To expect that you can improve on that by 5% (or the approximate distance from the world record to the silver/bronze threshold) with nothing other than your own laps by continuing doing the same thing for four hours is nuts.


As for the frustration expressed by others, we've all tried helping this individual out. It's never heeded and we get dozens of posts repeating the same cycle of baselessly optimistic targets, waffle, dozens of replies (to posts he's barely read) which now include bizarre anecdotes about pets not paying attention to the Green Cross Code, promises of going to do the event, more waffle about family life and food, annoyance with how far off he is (after ignoring all advice), and then complaints about the car or track before the cycle starts again on the next TT.

It's little surprise that members get annoyed with reading the same things over and over again while their advice and help is being ignored. He made half a dozen comments about how great @Tidgney and his videos are (which is fair enough), but then we get a video of his Eiger lap showing... he didn't heed any of the advice contained in it.

Like, short-shifting was the number one way of gaining gobs of time; Tidgney literally says "this is a short-shifting car" and you can see him shifting at barely 6k throughout, but guess what our hero doesn't do? If you're going to ignore fundamental advice, how great can you really think it is?
 
Famine
I'm not talking about getting your best lap, but getting an idea of what your best lap could be.




As for the frustration expressed by others, we've all tried helping this individual out. It's never heeded and we get dozens of posts repeating the same cycle of baselessly optimistic targets, waffle, dozens of replies (to posts he's barely read) which now include bizarre anecdotes about pets not paying attention to the Green Cross Code, promises of going to do the event, more waffle about family life and food, annoyance with how far off he is (after ignoring all advice), and then complaints about the car or track before the cycle starts again on the next TT.

It's little surprise that members get annoyed with reading the same things over and over again while their advice and help is being ignored. He made half a dozen comments about how great @Tidgney and his videos are (which is fair enough), but then we get a video of his Eiger lap showing... he didn't heed any of the advice contained in it.

Like, short-shifting was the number one way of gaining gobs of time; Tidgney literally says "this is a short-shifting car" and you can see him shifting at barely 6k throughout, but guess what our hero doesn't do?
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I don't entirely know how to comment on this and this isn't a go at you, Famine. However, your post here does highlight where I think I'm trying to go with it.

Perhaps the frustration others are experiencing comes from a lack of ability for this member to apply what is being said to their execution of a task due to being on the autistic spectrum. I believe they have mentioned it various times (I've been PM'd by them about it, too) and it explains why there is a type of repetition to their posts. You really can't expect someone with neurodivergence to understand the social atmosphere in the way others do. Their reality doesn't sync the same way. When they've openly shared their condition, I think the community could show more leniency.

Though we're all given the same agreement when we sign up for GTPlanet, we all perceive things a bit differently. And, though this may seem all social-justice-y, I can appreciate the complexity this creates when trying to moderate a forum. "How long can this behaviour be accommodated?" is a question I have wondered for more than half a year or so now. And, slowly over time, it seems that the frustration has been building. As a Moderator, you obviously can't ignore the behaviour, but others seem to pick apart this member's behaviour rather than ignore it.

I think, based on writing this passage alone, I'm leaning more toward tolerance than anything else and would suggest others do as well. Are they causing harm, or merely frustrating you? Because, bluntly put, your frustration is a "you" problem. There is a solution for it through ignoring posts or members entirely.

I'm of two minds. This may be a 'nothing' post.
 
A_Higher_Place
I don't entirely know how to comment on this and this isn't a go at you, Famine. However, your post here does highlight where I think I'm trying to go with it.

Perhaps the frustration others are experiencing comes from a lack of ability for this member to apply what is being said to their execution of a task due to being on the autistic spectrum. I believe they have mentioned it various times (I've been PM'd by them about it, too) and it explains why there is a type of repetition to their posts. You really can't expect someone with neurodivergence to understand the social atmosphere in the way others do. Their reality doesn't sync the same way. When they've openly shared their condition, I think the community could show more leniency.

Though we're all given the same agreement when we sign up for GTPlanet, we all perceive things a bit differently. And, though this may seem all social-justice-y, I can appreciate the complexity this creates when trying to moderate a forum. "How long can this behaviour be accommodated?" is a question I have wondered for more than half a year or so now. And, slowly over time, it seems that the frustration has been building. As a Moderator, you obviously can't ignore the behaviour, but others seem to pick apart this member's behaviour rather than ignore it.

I think, based on writing this passage alone, I'm leaning more toward tolerance than anything else and would suggest others do as well. Are they causing harm, or merely frustrating you? Because, bluntly put, your frustration is a "you" problem. There is a solution for it through ignoring posts or members entirely.

I'm of two minds. This may be a 'nothing' post.
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not a nothing post at all. I was about to post something similar. It seems pretty apparent that Chris's autism plays a role in this for sure. There's a disconnect between the information we are sending and the message he's receiving at times. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just the way it is. But yes, a difficult thing to moderate in a general sense.
 
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ZevZoq
not a nothing post at all. I was about to post something similar. It seems pretty apparent that Chris's autism plays a role in this for sure. There's a disconnect between the information we are sending and the message he's receiving at times. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just the way it is. But yes, a difficult thing to moderate in a general sense.
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But the most troublesome part is, how often we have to deal with these miscommunications.
 
A_Higher_Place
Perhaps the frustration others are experiencing comes from a lack of ability for this member to apply what is being said to their execution of a task due to being on the autistic spectrum. I believe they have mentioned it various times (I've been PM'd by them about it, too) and it explains why there is a type of repetition to their posts. You really can't expect someone with neurodivergence to understand the social atmosphere in the way others do. Their reality doesn't sync the same way. When they've openly shared their condition, I think the community could show more leniency.
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It's worth noting at this point that the rate of neurodivergency (in particular the autistic spectrum) is much higher among both people who play games (and particularly racing games) and use internet forums than it is in the background population - and one should not assume that either the people responding or the staff of a racing game forum are excluded from this.
A_Higher_Place
There is a solution for it through ignoring posts or members entirely.
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For most people, this is the case (and for some it has been the solution). For others (like the staff) it is not; we cannot (for very obvious reasons) ignore any member.


Our solution is not one I want to implement at this point. I'd rather not, but if someone is being disruptive enough it is something I have to consider.

However it's also not an excuse for a pile-on.
 
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Famine
It's worth noting at this point that the rate of neurodivergency (in particular the autistic spectrum) is much higher among both people who play games (and particularly racing games) and use internet forums than it is in the background population - and one should not assume that either the people responding or the staff of a racing game forum are excluded from this.
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That's interesting! Without sounding prude, can you share where this has been found? I might end up going down another research rabbit hole.

And, no of course I am not excluding that idea. It's just in this case this particular member has openly mentioned it various times and have the apparent behaviour to back it up.

TumeK5
But the most troublesome part is, how often we have to deal with these miscommunications.
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I don't know your position on this forum. Are you staff? If you have to deal with them, then you have my understanding. Otherwise, why wouldn't you ignore it?
 
Famine
I know that I've said this before, because you're not one for actually heeding advice*, but what exactly are you learning by doing 200 laps with only yourself to compare your laps to?

You don't get faster just by spending more time, and you don't get better if you don't know where to improve. All you're doing is following yourself... for four hours.

Five or ten laps is enough to know where you are. Anything beyond that is a waste of time if you're not clear where you can improve and you don't get there by following yourself or by looking at other people's leaderboard times.

Find a ghost on your friends list that's faster than you by only a little bit. Set the ghost to reset at each sector and with a +0.3 or +0.4s offset. Follow it, to find out where it's gaining time on you, and improve until you're faster than it. Then find a new ghost that's a little faster than you and repeat.

And stop setting yourself unrealistic goals. You're not going to get three seconds faster on a 90-second lap. Especially not if you keep wasting time by not employing methods that will help you improve, or spending several hours a day posting inanities here and replying to posts without actually reading them*.


*For an example of both of these things, there's a dozen people telling you (and videos showing you) in this thread to short-shift the Impreza at Eiger. Did you do that? Nope, your video shows you revving it right out...
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Well disagree. I race against my own ghost and after spending enough km (even around 500) on it Im more often gold than silver and almost always start from bronze time (sometimes not even that). So for me racing against own ghost and watching fastest drivers laps works.
 
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A_Higher_Place
That's interesting! Without sounding prude, can you share where this has been found? I might end up going down another research rabbit hole.
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It's been a while since I was involved in proper science, but there's definitely been research into it. From my recollection, autistic spectrum is overrepresented among gamers defined as those other than casual (games' appeal is they generally have clear structure and a defined action-reward loop), people who describe themselves as car enthusiasts, motorsports fans, and heavy internet users (not so much those whose internet use consists of Facebook).

Of course these are also activities predominantly involving men, and there's something like a 4:1 ratio of men to women amongst autistic spectrum diagnoses.
snc
Well disagree.

So for me racing against own ghost and watching fastest drivers laps works.
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Disagreeing by agreeing, it seems?


Aaaaaanyway, back to the time trials.

Edit: Heh, apparently that one is tough to read between the lines of (although other, longer posts are easy to make up lines to read between...). For clarity: return to the topic of the time trials now; discussion of other topics related to the last few posts may be had in conversation messages and not in this thread.
 
I had a third try at Eiger last night to see if I could get out of silver. 40 minutes later I had completely failed. Mostly laps were within thousandths of a second so I was consistent at least. So I set my fastest lap on the very first try and then ingrained bad habits on how to drive the track and was never able to match that pace again. The best I ever got was within .1s of my PB. So I ended up something like 3.67% (I think).

I do not have a single TT in the gold zone currently. I'm going backwards....
 
TheNormsk
I had a third try at Eiger last night to see if I could get out of silver. 40 minutes later I had completely failed. Mostly laps were within thousandths of a second so I was consistent at least. So I set my fastest lap on the very first try and then ingrained bad habits on how to drive the track and was never able to match that pace again. The best I ever got was within .1s of my PB. So I ended up something like 3.67% (I think).

I do not have a single TT in the gold zone currently. I'm going backwards....
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no current golds for me either. I take a small amount of solace in the fact that it seems these recent TTs have been on the "difficult" end of the scale and I have managed decent silvers in all except the RBR one (which is a very tenuous silver so far.) I have hopes for gold in the new one at HSR though...
 
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crome
Are you still switching back and forth between VR and flat? If so, how do the times compare?
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I'm only running VR now. I think the lack of real-time time gaps affects the performance but for Eiger I was actually faster in VR than on the other account. My flat screen times were .2 to .3s slower than VR on that track.

For the other TTs I haven't given them much attention yet bar one try and Trial Mountain and Spa are both close to gold so with some work I might get there. The wet RBR I've no chance, but I hate RBR with a vengeance.
 

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