Time Trial Discussion

  • Thread starter seadog777
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In my opinion TT’s should be like this:
  • One week duration;
  • Two TT’s at the same time;
  • One at a real world location following some real-world event (like they did with Nürburgring 24h and Super Formula at Autopolis) but with the same car for everyone with fixed setup. So for example from all the cars available from Gr.3 they (PD) would have to pick us one (but a car that actually is a GT3 or GT300, and not a Beetle for example);
  • One at fantasy GT circuit with a random car and tuning being permitted;
  • In the rankings should be visible for everyone if the time was set with a wheel or a controller, like they did back in GT Academy.
 
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I took time out of the brilliant daily race C (no I haven’t got the N24 TT out of my head, I could do that one every week till the end of my days!) to try the Willow Springs TT. Like most people I don’t like this track but the @Mistah_MCA tip of using corner markers has kept me sane. I actually like it, PD finally made a TT where they got a good match of car to track and although the handling is still a bit suspect in places I find it a blast to drive. It’s hard work over a session though as I find I’m throwing it around everywhere! 1:16.761 after my first session but I feel like there’s lots of room for improvement. Track limits are a bitch aren’t they? But at least it’s a short lap if you make a mistake unlike the 8-9 minutes of terror that went before.

IMG_0528.jpeg

IMG_0531.jpeg



The car is a lot of fun, I’d like to try it elsewhere tbh, any of the established offline races suit it does anyone know?

I set a decent time on Autopolis too but I’m not sure I’ll grind that one, I get the feeling it’s a combo that I’ll plateau early on and grinding won’t garner too much improvement. Maybe revisit it a few times but it’s not one that I’ll grow to love!

IMG_0530.jpeg


As for the TT format debate. Without going into details I think they’ve done a great job and I can’t see much of a reason to change things, it’s pretty great now and being able to cash 2mil credits a week potentially and appeal to my nerdish perfectionism at the same time is top tier! If you have a busy life it’s a bit much I think but that just plays in to the hands of losers like me who have no life (or Kittens, congratulations @Gomario JSP !! Pics or didn’t happen…) 😈

I’m off for a drive in my real car today! Have a good Saturday everybody!!
 
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Exosum
As for controller vs. Wheel topic....

I am also one of controller guys with gold for every time trial so far... Until March 2023 I played PS4 + DS4 (road atlanta, suzuka, nurburgring nsx) nowadays I play PS5 + DS5 (new nurburgring Gr.3, olympic trial) so both are viable options.

Usually I set decent time first day of time trial that I think will be enough for gold and leave it at that.... This time I tried to push Willow little bit more and I drove probably like 240km, I did 1:15:884 not the most optimal time for sure but I don't enjoy grinding 14 days for marginal gains.
Click to expand...
I am one of the controller users, too, but probably in a tier slightly (s)lower. I've been able to get gold in the majority of the TTs lately, after some learning curve when switching off the assists and going to MT one step after another. My best result has been P204 globally with the delivery van at Autopolis. So, yes, I think that with most cars you can be amost equally fast with a controller compared to a wheel (at least that's my assumption, actually I've never driven with a wheel (except in real life, of course).

But...

There are certain cars, like those in the current TTs, where I wish I was able to modulate the inputs more precisely. Like with the FuguZ, countersteering to correct over- or understeer often results in overcompensating, and it kills the lap. I've often completely thrown away otherwise good laps that way, when more intricate inputs with a wheel might have saved it. So I think that it takes maybe more retries to get a close-to-perfect lap done with a controller. Again, that's just an assumption.

So, yeah, maybe a wheel would be nice after all. I'll have a talk about that with my wife.



...



Err, no, actually I won't. 😬🤣
 
Dan_Tes
I took time out of the brilliant daily race C (no I haven’t got the N24 TT out of my head, I could do that one every week till the end of my days!) to try the Willow Springs TT. Like most people I don’t like this track but the @Mistah_MCA tip of using corner markers has kept me sane. I actually like it, PD finally made a TT where they got a good match of car to track and although the handling is still a bit suspect in places I find it a blast to drive. It’s hard work over a session though as I find I’m throwing it around everywhere! 1:16.761 after my first session but I feel like there’s lots of room for improvement. Track limits are a bitch aren’t they? But at least it’s a short lap if you make a mistake unlike the 8-9 minutes of terror that went before.

View attachment 1260079
View attachment 1260080


The car is a lot of fun, I’d like to try it elsewhere tbh, any of the established offline races suit it does anyone know?

I set a decent time on Autopolis too but I’m not sure I’ll grind that one, I get the feeling it’s a combo that I’ll plateau early on and grinding won’t garner too much improvement. Maybe revisit it a few times but it’s not one that I’ll grow to love!

View attachment 1260081

As for the TT format debate. Without going into details I think they’ve done a great job and I can’t see much of a reason to change things, it’s pretty great now and being able to cash 2mil credits a week potentially and appeal to my nerdish perfectionism at the same time is top tier! If you have a busy life it’s a bit much I think but that just plays in to the hands of losers like me who have no life (or Kittens, congratulations @Gomario JSP !! Pics or didn’t happen…) 😈

I’m off for a drive in my real car today! Have a good Saturday everybody!!
Click to expand...

That's a great result on Willow Dan, I had 10ish laps to see what is was like and to find out T1 tracklimits are ridiculously inconsistent 🤣, no idea how corner on this track so I'm going to start with checking your video 🤣.....

And trust me.....it did happen, I'm exhausted already 🤣🤣

They are like the aliens, they sleep a lot, but when they are awake they take over and you got nothing on them 🤣

20230527_081535.jpg
 
Yeah, as expected, crap TT on a car that is more suited to karts than actual cars.

Hit a 1:16.406 after about 70km of trying to nail Sector 1 right and will never come back unless somehow someone destroys the current top 1 time. Optimum time of 1:15.911 which sounds about right given the crap load of mistakes I did in Sector 2. Worst (not hardest) TT so far... It simply doesn't have the flow for me. Slow speed corners everywhere, the car is also pretty average to drive as well and not one that excites me driving it.

QTheRacer_31
Wasn’t the Tomahawk X VGT at Nordschleife one of the TTs in GTS?

I got gold in all but the Olympics (still less than 3%) and the Senna TT (Gallo got crazy on the last day and I finished at 3.01%). The hardest TT was definitely the NSX at Nordschleife (tuning and oversteer) but the SF19 at Fuji (damn last sector) and X2019 at Road Atlanta (grass and short-shifts) were quite tough and had me relearn some driving basics 😅

Unlike you, I’ve loved all things Willow ever since I diamonded the Lewis TT in GTS. I got my only Top 100 (P74) in the Escudo on Big Willow.
Click to expand...
I didn't play GTS at that time, was the trial also about the gold time being 3% of the first split?

Also, the Tomahawk X in GT7 is almost an order of magnitude harder to drive in GT7 than in GTS.
I also got Diamond on the Lewis TT in GTS and was one of the hardest things to do in any Gran Turismo game. Lewis was good on all other tracks but pretty beatable, but on Willow he pretty much nailed the perfect line of that track.

I missed the Escudo in Willow and the TT right after with the Skyline in Interlagos as I was absent from the game back then. From the stats, they looked like average difficulty golds.

Ramalhinho91
In my opinion TT’s should be like this:
  • In the rankings should be visible for everyone if the time was set with a wheel or a controller, like they did back in GT Academy.
Click to expand...

This... I see other games doing it, no reason why a "benchmark" racing game like GT7 doesn't have a gimmick that shows in the rankings a Wheel and a Controller icon on the side of the times set by players. All it needs is a code to recognize which hardware was being used, which should be something pretty damn simple for a developer to do, especially one with Sony at it's back like PD.
 
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Oh my, just as I would have expected, they post another track that's my weakest points in. I have had trouble with this part of Willow Springs ever since I started back GT in summer of 2021. I always go too fast and go off course in the dust. The left-right-left sectons can be a pain because I always lose some time there. So, I'll be posting videos of my runs so you guys can interpret it.
 
Ramalhinho91
In my opinion TT’s should be like this:
  • One week duration;
  • Two TT’s at the same time;
  • One at a real world location following some real-world event (like they did with Nürburgring 24h and Super Formula at Autopolis) but with the same car for everyone with fixed setup. So for example from all the cars available from Gr.3 they (PD) would have to pick us one (but a car that actually is a GT3 or GT300, and not a Beetle for example);
  • One at fantasy GT circuit with a random car and tuning being permitted;
  • In the rankings should be visible for everyone if the time was set with a wheel or a controller, like they did back in GT Academy.
Click to expand...
I totally agree 100% there.
 
Took a long time to warm up to this track and car combo, but once found a groove, it was surprisingly fun.

Woke up today early to bang out some laps before work and somehow found almost half a second.

I'm definitely going to keep at this as I feel a 15 is possible.

Opted for DualSense on this, as I'm lazy and the constant oversteering is annoying to correct on a gt3 wheel :yuck:
1885de8875c11-screenshotUrl.jpg
 
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Gomario JSP
That's a great result on Willow Dan, I had 10ish laps to see what is was like and to find out T1 tracklimits are ridiculously inconsistent 🤣, no idea how corner on this track so I'm going to start with checking your video 🤣.....

And trust me.....it did happen, I'm exhausted already 🤣🤣

They are like the aliens, they sleep a lot, but when they are awake they take over and you got nothing on them 🤣

View attachment 1260096
Click to expand...
Me trying to play game...cars be like... request denied 😭
20230520_125105.jpg


20230313_143419.jpg
 
Jeje6410
1'17'673
View attachment 1260120
I'm too far from you @Dan_Tes but watch out for you @Gomario JSP I'm coming 🤣🤣🤣🤣 with my cats !!!! 🤣🤣

View attachment 1260121

Edit : 1'17'299 with optimal time at 1'17'047
Click to expand...
🤣🤣 so everywere there are cats to blame, now i cant use it as excuse anymore 🤣🤣
Evilmuffin
Me trying to play game...cars be like... request denied 😭View attachment 1260159

View attachment 1260160
Click to expand...
🤣🤣, I'm in the "launch-on-arm-with-nails fase...... and then grip.exe fails to execute...lovely sliding down while hanging on.......pure pain 🤣🤣

I'm down to 17.2xx something starting to appreciate the Willow....... now we build 😁🤣🤣
 
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Hello

This is in regards to the recent nurb 24hr time trial with gr3 (I think) cars that has recently expired. I remember there being a bop applied.

My question is how would I recreate that race? Choosing the track is easy but how would I get the cars to match the level dictated in the official event?
 
BLACK86
Hello

This is in regards to the recent nurb 24hr time trial with gr3 (I think) cars that has recently expired. I remember there being a bop applied.

My question is how would I recreate that race? Choosing the track is easy but how would I get the cars to match the level dictated in the official event?
Click to expand...
Hi, I think it’s very very difficult to match and simulate offline, and even online, the specs of any TT.
 
I was getting into a groove at Autopolis today. Got about 4 PB laps over the previous day's 1:25.8xx. Now I'm sitting around 1:24.4xx currently about 2 tenths from gold.

Optimal time is 1:24.1xx so I'm very close but I don't have any more time today.

I hope I can find the speed again tomorrow.
 
Willow TT is huge fun, sliding around and throwing car left and right. I had great Saturday afternoon. It took "few" laps but I guess reason is I haven't slept so much last night and feel pretty sleepy whole day. Watched F1 Monaco qualifying and after that wifey fell asleep on sofa next to me and I thought to give it a shot on Willow TT. I got pretty quickly middle 1:17 then low 1:17 while OPT was showing middle 1:16s so I thought to go for it, and now when I saw my screen .. I drove almost 100 laps 😁 but I enjoyed it, great fun. Maybe come back to it to chase low 16.. we shall see...
P.s. had two cats before but not at the moment, sorry but no cat photo 😁
1885ebab62319-screenshotUrl~2.jpg
1885ebaefe586-screenshotUrl.jpg
1885ebb0bb8100-screenshotUrl.jpg
 
With a much needed break from Autopolis, I gave Willow a go. It took some time to get used to the car. And which ways to turn in the first sector! I realized I've never driven the reverse layout before and it was a mess to start. Gold was quite far off. But slowly my times started to come down the more laps I ran. My arms hurt they were tensed up so much during this TT by the time I stopped. I haven't yet watched the track guide videos for it, so I will do so and see if there are any spots to pick up time. Not sure if this time will stick because, you know, aliens and such. :lol:
IMG_2030.jpg
 
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Grimm6Jack
Yeah, as expected, crap TT on a car that is more suited to karts than actual cars.

Hit a 1:16.406 after about 70km of trying to nail Sector 1 right and will never come back unless somehow someone destroys the current top 1 time. Optimum time of 1:15.911 which sounds about right given the crap load of mistakes I did in Sector 2. Worst (not hardest) TT so far... It simply doesn't have the flow for me. Slow speed corners everywhere, the car is also pretty average to drive as well and not one that excites me driving it.


I didn't play GTS at that time, was the trial also about the gold time being 3% of the first split?

Also, the Tomahawk X in GT7 is almost an order of magnitude harder to drive in GT7 than in GTS.
I also got Diamond on the Lewis TT in GTS and was one of the hardest things to do in any Gran Turismo game. Lewis was good on all other tracks but pretty beatable, but on Willow he pretty much nailed the perfect line of that track.

I missed the Escudo in Willow and the TT right after with the Skyline in Interlagos as I was absent from the game back then. From the stats, they looked like average difficulty golds.



This... I see other games doing it, no reason why a "benchmark" racing game like GT7 doesn't have a gimmick that shows in the rankings a Wheel and a Controller icon on the side of the times set by players. All it needs is a code to recognize which hardware was being used, which should be something pretty damn simple for a developer to do, especially one with Sony at it's back like PD.
Click to expand...
As far as I remember, there were no gold/silver/bronze rewards like in GT7. I think only the Olympics Supra on Tokyo TT gave a good amount of credits.
 
Leon Kowalski
I am one of the controller users, too, but probably in a tier slightly (s)lower. I've been able to get gold in the majority of the TTs lately, after some learning curve when switching off the assists and going to MT one step after another. My best result has been P204 globally with the delivery van at Autopolis. So, yes, I think that with most cars you can be amost equally fast with a controller compared to a wheel (at least that's my assumption, actually I've never driven with a wheel (except in real life, of course).

But...

There are certain cars, like those in the current TTs, where I wish I was able to modulate the inputs more precisely. Like with the FuguZ, countersteering to correct over- or understeer often results in overcompensating, and it kills the lap. I've often completely thrown away otherwise good laps that way, when more intricate inputs with a wheel might have saved it. So I think that it takes maybe more retries to get a close-to-perfect lap done with a controller. Again, that's just an assumption.

So, yeah, maybe a wheel would be nice after all. I'll have a talk about that with my wife.



...



Err, no, actually I won't. 😬🤣
Click to expand...
I think you're absolutely spot-on here, Leon.

I don't believe there's enough of a clear-cut, objective and consistent advantage for wheel users over controller users to justify any kind of split, nor to somehow categorise the drivers of different input method. It would be for reference only.

What I agree with is that there are certain cars, certain corners and certain conditions under which in very specific moments a wheel does make life easier (like yourself, I don't have any experience with using a rig, always a proud controller user). Moments which require a very smooth and synchronised motion between the brake pedal and the steering, and assuming one uses their left hand for both of these actions, the forces acting upon the hand make it very, very hard to regulate that synchronisation.

Again, they are isolated moments on certain corners and the effects are definitely exacerbated in faster cars with more downforce.

So no, I don't think segregation is necessary in any way shape or form. But to get it just right on DS4/DualSense takes a lot of dexterity and more than a pinch of talent.
 
Wow, I'm trying to aim for silver in the SF time trial but it's hard. I always mess up somewhere halfway to the latter half of the entire course. See there's so much downforce on this car that any mistake can happen if the player is not careful. And if you hit the curbs you will spin out of control and go offtrack, or risk hitting the wall. So beginners would most likely get bronze if they are not experienced with this type of car.

edit: yes, narrowed it down to 1'28.720
 
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Chris30
Wow, I'm trying to aim for silver in the SF time trial but it's hard. I always mess up somewhere halfway to the latter half of the entire course. See there's so much downforce on this car that any mistake can happen if the player is not careful. And if you hit the curbs you will spin out of control and go offtrack, or risk hitting the wall. So beginners would most likely get bronze if they are not experienced with this type of car.

edit: yes, narrowed it down to 1'28.720
Click to expand...
I have the same experience, it's tough to get silver. I was very annoyed when after an hour of trying hard I got to .007 secs over the silver time, 5.01% :indiff:
Went back a day later and have a safe silver time now. But it takes practice and dedication.
 
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Chris30
Wow, I'm trying to aim for silver in the SF time trial but it's hard. I always mess up somewhere halfway to the latter half of the entire course. See there's so much downforce on this car that any mistake can happen if the player is not careful. And if you hit the curbs you will spin out of control and go offtrack, or risk hitting the wall. So beginners would most likely get bronze if they are not experienced with this type of car.

edit: yes, narrowed it down to 1'28.720
Click to expand...
That 3rd sector is tricky. I'm still working on smoothing out my times through there and getting a little more consistent to figure out exactly where I'm losing the most time.

If you're in Automatic, you might try to figure out the Manual mode. What I see in the top time replays is that in the slower parts it's quicker to downshift and use engine braking to get your angle on the turn, then upshift to 3rd/4th (depending on the turn) on the exit.

The high down force also lets you take the sweeper turns much faster than you might think you can. Be brave! I haven't noticed too much slippage on the curbs on the fast turns, but we're probably not doing exactly the same things, so I can't speak much to the spins you're experiencing.

If you haven't, watch some of the top time replays to see what's possible and ways you could improve. Watch for braking points, gear changes, or where they might just lift off the throttle.

I'm currently .2 seconds off the gold time, but even I'm still learning the car/track. Remember to be patient and try to have fun while you're at it.
 
Between the parenting of the terror kittens ( I forgot how pure hell this was ) I did a few miles on Willow, starting to get the feeling of what the car is capable of, now still figuring out how to get the right flow on some corners, they are weird 🤣....suite me..... 🤣

Now down to a 1:16.702, but can make a gazillion seconds in the banked left hander 🤣🤣
 

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