Time Trial Discussion

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skydragon49
Chris, I hope I'm not crossing any line here, but I can't help to not see a pattern going on. Which would be that you always join the TT party later than you should. You've been starting putting work on it after a week or even 10 days the TT started.

I'm pointing this out because the earlier you start lapping, the more repetition you can get. And for me, at least, repetition is key. Lapping over and over, helps me building muscle memory and find the details here and there that can give me time.

For example, the Bugatti/LeMans TT my Bugatti Gr4 has more than 2000 kms driven. I bought it just for the TT and drove only at it. I don't have a top timer, geez it is not even a competitive one, but I can say I put the gold time to work there because I had tons of repetition there to learn the track and the car.

Also, If I may say, avoid comparisons at all cost. It is not healthy. And trust me, I have had my share of self disapointments and bad thoughts in this life. It took me more than 40 years (!!!) to turn on my "I don't give a ****" mode. And that made me a happier man.

There is beauty on differences. There is a priceless value knowing that you put all the work you could on something, and if that is better than somebody's work or not is just a detail.
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👏👏👏👏👏 nothing more to say ...:bowdown:
 
Chris30
I just don't have what it takes to tackle the longer TT's with silver and gold, once again I'm stuck with bronze. :(
See, Le Mans is more of a track for professionals and aliens who know their driving skills to the bone.
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Something to try on a TT you are having problems with: Load up a fast ghost replay, it doesn't have to be the fastest, then go into the driver view you use and watch the lap a few times without really trying to digest anything, just watch it, you may pick up something you didn't notice before.

Then watch the lap and pay close attention to one part of what the driver is doing, such as braking points. Watch the lap again paying attention to braking points, but after each corner pause and rewind, watch it again, try to understand exactly where they are braking, how much they are braking, and how fast they are going, and where their car is on the track, and the angle the car is at before braking.

Then realize you won't be going that fast on your lap no matter what, so it'll be braking too early for a slower speed, but braking too early is better than too late and you probably can't brake as efficiently as they do anyways so use their braking points even if you're going slower at the same point. Also realize the faster you go, the earlier you'll need to brake.

Then do the same paying attention to when they are shifting, how far do they rev the car up in the rev range? Are they using engine braking and how much? Id it different for different corners?

Then do the same watching the throttle inputs, then steering inputs. You may have to switch to cockpit view to get a better idea of their steering inputs.

You cannot possibly take all that info in simultaneously in real time watching the lap, you really need to pay attention to one thing at a time and get some understanding of each input made and why. Eventually you'll get to the point where you start improving, mainly because you know what to do even if you can't do it perfectly every time. And you may totally forget what they did in a corner, so go back and review that corner again, then try again for another session.

I usually go in blind with no ghost and try it myself and sometimes I can gold them that way, but I usually at least need a fast ghost for reference, and then might turn ghost off and gold it without the ghost. Ghosts can be distracting and hypnotize you a little bit. But if I have no idea how to take a corner and can't figure it out, I learn from the people who have already perfected it. I still can't go as fast as them, but at least I have a reference point, a target to aim for.

No matter how slow or fast you are, there's always someone faster and you can learn from them unless you're in the #1 spot.
That Lemans TT was easy for me probably because I've run that track so many times in single player, testing different strategies for fuel and setup, while grinding for $$.
I was 💩 at Bathurst because I really didn't understand that track. I golded it but just barely, but I have a much better understanding of that track now.

I can't remember if you're using a wheel or controller but if wheel, don't be afraid to experiment with wheel rotation and force feedback settings.
If controller good luck, I can't gold these with a controller 90% of the time but on that RBR Mitsubishi EVO TT my wheel time was only a few hundredths faster than my best controller (with auto gears) time.

You definitely can get faster on the LeMans TT, but you may need to study someone's alien lap a little more in depth.
 
Chris30
I just don't have what it takes to tackle the longer TT's with silver and gold, once again I'm stuck with bronze. :(
See, Le Mans is more of a track for professionals and aliens who know their driving skills to the bone.
Click to expand...
Fwiw What I usually do is watch Tidgneys video guide on YouTube, then I'll watch his video replay from the ranking leaderboard.
This will give me a good idea of where to brake, turn & get on the power, after I've watched the videos a few times I download the ghost of his lap & start lapping, doing my best to keep up with the ghost & learning the best braking points to suit my style.

I have to be honest, this one at Le Mans has been a bit of a struggle for me, mainly because of the really strict track limits in certain parts of the track, I think that for every good, valid lap time I posted, there is at least 10 to 15 invalid lap times. Really frustrating!
I've also just recently switched to a new wheel & pedal set up & it's taken me a little while to get the ffb & brake force to a point that I'm happy with, so that didn't help.

My best time is 4:18.982 which is good enough for gold, but I started lapping in the 4:27's & it has taken hours of laps & around 900 miles to get to that.

My point is, that you have to put the laps in if you want to improve, simple as that. You can't just expect to go well from the start, then be disappointed & give up when you find yourself struggling to get a good lap, you just have to keep at it & the improvements will come.
 
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Hi,

I have just read through several pages of comments here and I have to say what a pleasure it is to be a member of this community! It is quite clear that there is some anger, disappointment, satisfaction, smugness and struggling to achieve a "gold" time on these Time Trials. I see a great deal of help offered. I see a great deal of encouragement. I also see a great deal of improvement and bettering of all our times in these, some times, infuriating Time Trials! You folks are, without doubt, wonderful!

I managed to achieve a gold time of 2:95% tonight. A 1:05:789. Something I just could not have managed without the help of this place. I will never, ever, be a racing driver - Nor will the vast majority of you silly *******'s! - But we can dream and play and try to improve our times - and dream again.

Best regards to all here.

Ian. Probably the silliest ******* here! :)
 
It is done.

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18e58daadc769-screenshotUrl.jpg


I put in a proper stint today. But it took 32 laps to break into the 5's. Then lap 33 broke the Gold barrier. 38 for where I'm calling it complete. I was up a couple tenths on Lap 41 but binned it trying to transition into the last turn.

My Sector 1 time wasn't that great which is why I tried to push for more, but I'm still not very consistent in Sector 2.

But I nailed the 2.5% goal I set for myself, so I'm satisfied with this result. Thanks to everyone who posted tips and lap replays to inspire me.
 
Another 400+ kms and decent 2 tenths improvement
Sorry Carlos
TT-LeMansBug-almost4.jpg


Optimals of low 17s are deceiving, but low 18s could be doable here given some stroke of luck.
At this point I'll take any chunk of time with a big smile as I feel I'm running on borrowed petrol here.

Too bad I won't be able to do my usual late night Wednesday session tomorrow, but I'll try to squeeze an hour or so earlier.
I just can't stop trying...
 
Evening all!! Guess who is back! Slightly jet lagged, slightly stressed, slightly addicted to his GT7 fix.. I’m not gonna lie the entire weekend I was thinking about that silly little 👽 emoji. Whoever thought up this little nugget really got into my head 🤣🤣 I did a little sesh at Sardegna still appreciating the wonders of CS strong (isn’t it great, @Dolph Drago 😁) and being a massive, massive cheat all in the name of stat padding and smugness (Sorry @Ian JB I’ll be more useful next time 🤣😎)

IMG_5981.jpeg


Then this evening a very frustrating visit to Le Sarth, I actually love the combo despite it being not my favourite track, the stability of the Bug is rather lovely and invokes less terror than the Gr1 nightmare of last time round here..! However, it’s bizarre track limits are getting to me and I barely got a clean lap in. Ended up with a 4:16.x and the horrid horrid dangling carrot of top 100 (it’s the hope that kills you 👽)


IMG_5983.jpeg


See you tomorrow everybody ☺️
 
330_D
I go back and forth with CSA. I try not to use it but some cars just seem to need it for me. Haven't found the way it's fastest consistently at all for me with the Dino but weak is where my fastest time is. I'll try it stronger later. Most slidey cars seem to lose power on exit with it but that may just be my tail sliding style of driving too...
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I feel like we are very similar in the way we drive and enjoy GT7, so I'm interested in what you think of CSA as it relates to actually sliding a car around.

In the real world when you're toying with oversteer the car will find opposite lock easily and it can be found/caught to maintain slip angle. The car naturally finds it on it's own through suspension geometry and you're free to do with it as you want, whereas in the game (this is independent of the snappy tire characteristic in GT) we have to actively hunt for opposite lock instead of cars falling into it. To me this makes for artificially difficult to control cars (especially with these snappy tires)... I'm used to it now, but don't think its terribly realistic.

Do you feel like adding in some CSA makes the car react more realistically to maintaining opposite lock (i.e the steering wheel moves towards lock better)? I've literally never used the assists in 7 and don't really ever think of them, so other than trying out TCS just to see how it functions and to have a basis for conversation, the other ones have never been toggled on. I have some time tomorrow to play around with it, but I'm interested to hear your take on it!
feral and bad
Every once in a while one of the crazy fast people let a hint slip. I have no idea what it actually means, as my method is 'just try to keep the bloody thing on the track', but I am sure this will help make somebody faster. :)
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It's not so much a "hint" as much as it is feeling a car out and seeing what it reacts well to based on its drivetrain layout.

In the case of the Dino it is very prone to lift-throttle oversteer. So much so that when you're slowing down and turning into a corner it would rather continue rotating around you than stay on the line you want it to. You steer it in very slightly in the direction of the corner, and often immediately turn opposite the corner to correct the angle of the slide. Many mid-engine and rear engined cars have this trait because the bulk of their weight is towards the back of the car, and it acts like a pendulum trying to bring the rear of the car around you. This TT requires CS tires too, so grip levels aren't super high and that doesn't make learning this any easier!

These types of rear-weight cars also benefit from on-throttle traction. When you hit the gas, the weight is pushed down on the rear tires and you get more grip (and subsequently less in the front). When you're in a slide you can help correct it by giving it more throttle, which feels like the opposite thing you should be doing. Most cars are front-engined rear-drive and don't want more throttle when you're in a slide (unless you're intentionally drifting), and these rear-weight biased cars just don't play in the same way. This concept of being mindful of the driven wheels and engine location applies to every car, and is a lot of the fun of being a car enthusiast.

It's also a trait that can be exploited and made useful. Once you learn the behavior you can play with how it reacts to different inputs. Pitch the car in to an angle you want, then control it as you maintain slip angle until it grips up in the rear.

This is a VERY difficult thing to do sometimes, so don't worry! This is challenging many of us! It took me a while to get into the 1:05s, and a LOT of those attempts ended with catastrophic wrecks. Keep playing with the car, have fun with it, and maybe you'll find the rhythm it dances to.
 
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Took me a while to acclimate to VR but saved 0.307 and lost 2 tenths in one corner.
The FFB on this GT DD X definitely helps me, the car kind of drifts itself if you let it.
VR helps too, there's bumps in the road I couldn't see before, just need delta and it would be perfect.
Maybe the PS5 Pro will have enough power to run the delta timer in VR! 🤦‍♂️

GT7 Sardegna Dino TT Gold PSVR2 results 1.jpg


 
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mmm... this morning againa few laps, thought i had it but turned out to bed 492 instead of the .491 i already had :grumpy: :grumpy: :lol: :lol:
But without the apparently mowing-grass-shenanigan that has popped up? haha
No idea how to even brake on the grass there??, have to watch some replay?!

Also... i'm tempting to try the CS now everybody has love for it :lol::lol:
2 sessions left on Sardegna for me then my weekly push is over and on to the next, let's hope my 👽bage still stand by then!
 
LSFDRX
I feel like we are very similar in the way we drive and enjoy GT7, so I'm interested in what you think of CSA as it relates to actually sliding a car around.

In the real world when you're toying with oversteer the car will find opposite lock easily and it can be found/caught to maintain slip angle. The car naturally finds it on it's own through suspension geometry and you're free to do with it as you want, whereas in the game (this is independent of the snappy tire characteristic in GT) we have to actively hunt for opposite lock instead of cars falling into it. To me this makes for artificially difficult to control cars (especially with these snappy tires)... I'm used to it now, but don't think its terribly realistic.

Do you feel like adding in some CSA makes the car react more realistically to maintaining opposite lock (i.e the steering wheel moves towards lock better)? I've literally never used the assists in 7 and don't really ever think of them, so other than trying out TCS just to see how it functions and to have a basis for conversation, the other ones have never been toggled on. I have some time tomorrow to play around with it, but I'm interested to hear your take on it!

It's not so much a "hint" as much as it is feeling a car out and seeing what it reacts well to based on its drivetrain layout.

In the case of the Dino it is very prone to lift-throttle oversteer. So much so that when you're slowing down and turning into a corner it would rather continue rotating around you than stay on the line you want it to. You steer it in very slightly in the direction of the corner, and often immediately turn opposite the corner to correct the angle of the slide. Many mid-engine and rear engined cars have this trait because the bulk of their weight is towards the back of the car, and it acts like a pendulum trying to bring the rear of the car around you. This TT requires CS tires too, so grip levels aren't super high and that doesn't make learning this any easier!

These types of rear-weight cars also benefit from on-throttle traction. When you hit the gas, the weight is pushed down on the rear tires and you get more grip (and subsequently less in the front). When you're in a slide you can help correct it by giving it more throttle, which feels like the opposite thing you should be doing. Most cars are front-engined rear-drive and don't want more throttle when you're in a slide (unless you're intentionally drifting), and these rear-weight biased cars just don't play in the same way. This concept of being mindful of the driven wheels and engine location applies to every car, and is a lot of the fun of being a car enthusiast.

It's also a trait that can be exploited and made useful. Once you learn the behavior you can play with how it reacts to different inputs. Pitch the car in to an angle you want, then control it as you maintain slip angle until it grips up in the rear.

This is a VERY difficult thing to do sometimes, so don't worry! This is challenging many of us! It took me a while to get into the 1:05s, and a LOT of those attempts ended with catastrophic wrecks. Keep playing with the car, have fun with it, and maybe you'll find the rhythm it dances to.
Click to expand...
I think it's one of those things that this game uses but doesn't get right. I prefer no aids most of the time but CSA and ASM occasionally are faster. The Civic time trial a couple months ago proved that to me. I had a ton of time into that time trial and had a fantastic time (top 500) and got playing with the settings a little when I hit the wall. I found I was faster by a few tenths with assists on. I think I used both csa and ASM for my best time there. Now I leave them off to start but if I run into a situation where the time gain slows quickly I'll try assists just to see. Sometimes they help and sometimes they don't.

What bugs me the most is that they are even a thing in old cars. They should be disabled for anything built before the early 2000s when these things became available in real life on real cars. But PD gonna PD so this is what we get. Just gotta see which way is fastest.

I also think there are a lot more fast people that use assists than you realize. Maybe. I know most are proud of not using them but I'm all for whatever gets you round the track the fastest.

Edit to more thoroughly answer;

I think this game sucks entirely at the physics of sliding cars. I literally just play with the settings until I find that sweet spot where the car feels best. The nuance of throttle on/off over and understeer seem very different between cars and between settings for assists. It's very individual to each car in this game (in my experience). I wish I could offer a better and more concrete answer.
 
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Finally had a crack at the Sardegna TT last night. That one will definitely take some work to progress on! I've posted a low silver so far, and don't have the energy to take the Veyron around La Sarthe, so I'll keep bashing the Dino around Sardegna...

EDIT: By "low silver" I mean "low-ranking"... 🤣
 
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With the help of Barareklam and others I have managed to make the Gold a little shinier.

One of the things that I re-learned is that a person's knowledge and behavior is based on their experiences and innate attributes.
For instance, I half-joked about fast people letting information slip. It is not that they were trying to conceal it, it was just something that they didn't really think about, because it was deeply ingrained.

In this particular instance, it was a reference to countersteering. I have seen many
things said by people who understood something that others did not. Mario Andretti said something akin to "silly people think that brakes are for stopping", which I am sure has caused more than a few puzzled expressions.
It is my belief that it could have better been expressed as "Brakes are not just for stopping, they are also for things like changing and maintaining balance, or changing the vehicles orientation".

There are also cases where no amount of practice or knowledge can explain a person's abilities.

For example, arguably one of the best baseball hitters of all time, Ted Williams, was born different. He practiced more than his share, but no one could ever explain why he could just "see the ball better" than everyone else. His military medical records later indicated that he had 20/10 eyesight, which scientists claim naturally occurs in less than 1 percent of the population.

There is the case of our resident Tidgney who can see time left on the track.

In this example about pre-calculated countersteering, there is a large assumption made,
that one can get near enough to the same place, at the same angle and velocity for
the information to be valid.

The hope is that knowing something eventually becomes so ingrained that one doesn't have to think
about it. An elementary example could be the change for AT to MT in the game.

Therein, at least my case, is the rub. I can only practice and persevere, hoping to eventually be consistent enough so that assumptions about what what to do in the next corner are valid more times than not.

Paraphrasing someone from Porsche: "Yes, the 911 is a pig. But given enough time you can breed a very fast pig."

All of that being said, I have had enough of the Dino on this track. I need to go to the store to get groceries for next week's fresh Hell.
 

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