Too aggressive?

[baldgye]

My aim now is to not sound snobby,

Whilst the driver rating are progressional I’ve never concerned myself with them, I enter a race with the aim of getting from the start to finish as quickly as possible. Ive been an SR S since after the first week and its not dropped since.

DR will look after itself if you are always racing, if your looking after SR when racing your DR will not potentially be representative.

So why dont I look after SR? Because I want my DR to be representative but also because having good racecraft will avoid the majority of racing incidents and also have the side affect of looking after your SR.

How is this of benefit?

Its a case of racing mentality, making good judgments of when and where to do things. That is more important than driving around with an imaginary shield around your car.

My video below shows what good racecraft can achieve but racing worrying about SR is a waste of brain computing power.

DR: B SR: S

I think through my league racing, I've proven to myself and others that I'm more than capable of driving fast and clean/safe, the problem comes with others. The OP's video being a good example. I don't think you have to use much brain power if you come across someone jumping all over the track, at the back of the field, on the last lap, to think... probably not worth the almost certain incident trying to pass this bloke...

If you have an SR of S, chances are you don't have to deal with a lot of the nonsense that plagues the lower SR rankings.
I've been dive bombed into from well beyond the visibility of mirrors and radar and had my SR drop. I've had drivers pull along side and swerve into me, dropping my SR... maybe the new SR calculations have improved this, not sure I've not had the time to play since the patch due to work.


All I personally want out of Sport mode, is good aggressive, clean racing. Something that I've found to be largely impossible in the lower SR's, this has been especially true since the Manufacturer race tanked my SR.

 

[CConspicuous]

I'm curious if the community thinks this was too aggressive of a move.

I'm pie4july in the Hyundai. I was getting faster as the race went on, and the yellow Ferrari slipped up. Being the last lap, I made my move but we made contact. Too aggressive of a move or did he door check me? It doesn't appear the game penalized anyone, and my SR moved up from A to S following the race

His fault, he should have known you were there and you were sufficiently alongside him enough to say that the corner was yours, I'm 70% convinced that we was intentionally trying to ram, 30% he just didn't know you were there.

It is however, very clear that he's turned in as if you're not there.

 

[kilesa4568]

It's worrying seeing how many people think it was a valid passing attempt... You can see what's going to happen as soon as the OP commits so it looks like valour's the better part of discretion, judging by some replies in this thread.

I'd say it was an overly ambitious attempt with little thought for the Ferrari's options.

 

[Adam Duffield]

It's worrying seeing how many people think it was a valid passing attempt... You can see what's going to happen as soon as the OP commits so it looks like valour's the better part of discretion, judging by some replies in this thread.

I'd say it was an overly ambitious attempt with little thought for the Ferrari's options.

Were you the guy in the Ferrari by any chance?

 

[JulesDennis]

It's worrying seeing how many people think it was a valid passing attempt... You can see what's going to happen as soon as the OP commits so it looks like valour's the better part of discretion, judging by some replies in this thread.

I'd say it was an overly ambitious attempt with little thought for the Ferrari's options.

I am also in a similar situation "worrying" about how many people actually think that the Ferrari had any kind of right to go from an off track left position so suddenly to the inside right one and call OP "aggressive" for just staying on track without changing his line or "dive bombing".
But then again I am not suprised from what I've seen in Sport mode myself (and how people "race").

 

[CConspicuous]

I am also in a similar situation "worrying" about how many people actually think that the Ferrari had any kind of right to go from an off track left position so suddenly to the inside right one and call OP "aggressive" for just staying on track without changing his line or "dive bombing".
But then again I am not suprised from what I've seen in Sport mode myself (and how people "race").

Looking at it again, the Ferrari knew what he was doing, saw he was going to lose a position and moved across to ram the Hyundai. It's very clear, and I'm very surprised that people are bizarrely defending the Ferrari, but then again, I'm also not surprised as some people demonstrated clear intentional ignorance and intent of refusal to adhere to yellow flags in another thread.

There's this mentality where instead of treating things like this as they should be, people are electing to treat it more like a game mechanic and this is the inherent problem of race simulators because your life is never at risk playing them, so people are less likely to understand the seriousness of an offence like ignoring yellows.

 

[LaudSpiek1]

It's worrying seeing how many people think it was a valid passing attempt... You can see what's going to happen as soon as the OP commits so it looks like valour's the better part of discretion, judging by some replies in this thread.

I'd say it was an overly ambitious attempt with little thought for the Ferrari's options.

I agree with you. Racing is made up of split second decisions all over the track. Your ability, position in race, area of track, track conditions, opponent racing ability, previous ability in that area of track, next corner, risk, reward, etc etc etc.

That’s what makes racing so intense.

I am a statistics type of guy and those questions are asked instantaneously when you see this video. I will note watching a 30 second video like these are tough I recommend in general watching all your own replays.

Back to my point. Depending on what you weight highest at that point will effect that instantaneous decision.

I agree with the word ambitious as the risk was high when you try to pass in ANY S corner (yes not a chicane which I also used in a previous point). Statistically you want to break that down considering all the options the success of this pass were going to be low.

Blaming either is tough as your not in there shoes in this instant as it was instantaneous point in time. You can only look at yourself The word it was a good or legit pass is a little far fetched when the pass wasn’t completed and the turning in though a little odd could have been statistically realized that he had a controller and was twitchy beforehand.

Ambitious is a good word because just looking at yourself nothing else making a pass on the second of any S curves statistically is low so right or wrong the decision is on you and obviously the wrong one was made for that instant.

 

[Stotty]

When I read some of the stuff in threads like this it's no wonder there are so many people complaining about crashes/getting punted.

It makes no difference who was in the right or wrong in an incident like this. At the end of the race there's no race steward to judge who was at fault for a collision. It's 100% down to you as the driver to decide if you want to go for a pass, and after that, it's 100% down to you to accept the consequences if that pass doesn't work out.

If you're not 100% confident the other driver will give you room, you only have yourself to blame if there's contact - Unless you know the other driver, or you've raced them long enough to make a solid judgement on their skill/integrity, you have to expect 100% of the time they will turn in on you.

At any level of DR/SR, expecting to pass down the inside in to a flat chicane, with pretty much only 1 racing line (even if you have an overlap) is suicidal.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's worrying seeing how many people think it was a valid passing attempt... You can see what's going to happen as soon as the OP commits so it looks like valour's the better part of discretion, judging by some replies in this thread.

I'd say it was an overly ambitious attempt with little thought for the Ferrari's options.

The Ferrari's options are to accept that he's boxed the previous corner because of a rallycross attempt and expect an attack because of it. A quick glance at the radar would have confirmed it and I'm absolutely convinced he knew exactly where the OP was because he had enough wits about him and control of his car to make a sharp move into the OP at just the right time to cause a crash. It's more worrying to me that people don't see this as a valid passing attempt and are instead trying to move the responsibility for the incident onto a driver that made a legal passing attempt and then was clearly and intentionally rammed off the track by an unhappy driver because he did so.

 

[JulesDennis]

If you're not 100% confident the other driver will give you room, you only have yourself to blame if there's contact - Unless you know the other driver, or you've raced them long enough to make a solid judgement on their skill/integrity, you have to expect 100% of the time they will turn in on you.
At any level of DR/SR, expecting to pass down the inside in to a flat chicane, with pretty much only 1 racing line (even if you have an overlap) is suicidal.

I've raced a guy 2 days ago (I never raced him before) we went 2 wide changing positions in almost every avaliable corner there was for the whole race without a single touch.
I agree that in some corners,a pass is not going to happen no matter what but in most cases it does not happen because people dont know how to race others more than anything else.

 

[Stotty]

I've raced a guy 2 days ago (I never raced him before) we went 2 wide changing positions in almost every avaliable corner there was for the whole race without a single touch.
I agree that in some corners,a pass is not going to happen no matter what but in most cases it does not happen because people dont know how to race others more than anything else.

Unfortunately this would appear to be the exception, not the rule if threads like this keep appearing as often as they do.

Think the worst of people, and be pleasantly surprised if they behave well.

 

[JulesDennis]

Unfortunately this would appear to be the exception, not the rule if threads like this keep appearing as often as they do.

Think the worst of people, and be pleasantly surprised if they behave well.

I actually was feeling super good to race against a guy like that.But my point is that people are the problem.Most dont even know basic FIA rules,how do you expect them to actually race as clean as they can?
In this threat we have people defending a guy that went off track,then on track straight to OP and calling OP "aggressive" and at fault....

 

[baldgye]

Unfortunately this would appear to be the exception, not the rule if threads like this keep appearing as often as they do.

Think the worst of people, and be pleasantly surprised if they behave well.

Agreed.
The other day I had one of the best races of my life, me and two other guys gapped the whole field fighting for the win, 1st - 3rd was separated by about 2 seconds. Contact wasn't made and we all changed positions at one point or another. It was brilliant from start to finish.

Following two races, get dive bombed at random and from so far back they use you as a break, get pushed off the track on a straight and tapped and swerved into...

.Most dont even know basic FIA rules,how do you expect them to actually race as clean as they can?

But they must have watched the Sportsmanship video's!!!!
Sorry, had to say it haha! I think that if you drive badly and against the rules, there is no excuse and I wish PD would police it better, i.e. you shouldn't be able to have your SR rank tanked in a single race, if up to that point it had been at a constant and steady climb. You should also be able to report drivers within the game for poor sportsmanship

 

[Loopdreams]

I thought that in this instance the Ferrari drove badly and that by just keeping his foot in the Hundai drove unwisely and paid the price.

I had one last night, saw a dive bomb coming into the final chicane at Suzuka, had I taken my line he would have been unable to avoid the collision, so I stayed on the brakes and he went deep but still just made the chicane, taking the place. I think some people would rather go spinning off the track and lose four places instead of one shouting about FIA rules and demanding an imaginary investigation from the imaginary Charlie Whiting. But that just seems like a recipe for frustration to me. Sometimes you just have the play the game that's there not the one that you want it to be.

 

[JulesDennis]

But they must have watched the Sportsmanship video's!!!!

Even that does not help them.They think that they "dont look bad..."

 

[Stotty]

I actually wasover the feeling super good to race against a guy like that.But my point is that people are the problem.Most dont even know basic FIA rules,how do you expect them to actually race as clean as they can?
In this threat we have people defending a guy that went off track,then on track straight to OP and calling OP "aggressive" and at fault....

Most races I'm having at DRA/SRS are like that to a certain extent - but I always assume the worst of people until they prove otherwise.

Last night I had probably the closest, highest pressure race I've had in GTS to date.

Grp4 Corvette at Suzuka vs a grid of Meganes and Sciroccos... top 12 on the grid covered by <1s.

Qualified 2nd, took 1st at the start of lap 3 when the lead Megane slid wide in turn 1/2. Held a 1.5s lead until the end of lap 5, where I missed my brake point in to the chicane and 2nd/3rd both caught me.

I had to defend pretty hard for the next 5 laps (the FWD stuff is ridiculously fast on the straights, and has amazing braking), and I was expecting contact, so made sure I didn't put my car in a position that allowed anything but a deliberate ram (you can't avoid that sort of idiot). But over the next couple of laps on no occasion did either car look like they were going to do anything idiotic. So I stopped being super defensive in to the hairpin and the chicane, concentrated on driving fast/clean lines, and only defended in to turn 1, where they had a clear speed advantage.

The following cars were ahead of me on a number of occasions round the outside of turn 1, but I used the tighter, inside line and held on to the lead. At one stage we were 3 wide down the start/finish straight and in to turn 1.

I NEVER drive 'aggressively' when racing - do this, and you're just asking for trouble.

Drive defensively, think the worst, and you'll have a much better experience

 

[LaudSpiek1]

I actually was feeling super good to race against a guy like that.But my point is that people are the problem.Most dont even know basic FIA rules,how do you expect them to actually race as clean as they can?
In this threat we have people defending a guy that went off track,then on track straight to OP and calling OP "aggressive" and at fault....

I think we can start agreeing the term aggressive or fault is probably incorrect. Ambitious yes because Stastically that’s not a “passing zone”. Plan and simple. The fact that he is questioning means he knows that also at some level. Which is good. F

The Ferrari was not completely off the track and was carrying speed at some level. If putting two wheels on the rumble strips is off the track we are all in trouble. LOL. Don’t break that down further as yes his other two tires were off the track and we can agree it was a bad line. Was just making a point that he was still carrying speed and was not “completely off the track”.

Ambitious - Yes.

 

[baldgye]

Not to get too off topic, I noticed that it looked like stability control was enabled on the Ferrari, are you able to have all aids on for Sport mode?

 

[JulesDennis]

I think we can start agreeing the term aggressive or fault is probably incorrect. Ambitious yes because Stastically that’s not a “passing zone”. Plan and simple. The fact that he is questioning means he knows that also at some level. Which is good. F

When the other car is off track,any section is a "passing zone".In this case the Ferrari should have penalized for cutting track and also for coming back in the way he did.
If you can understand this when yes,we have an agreement.

The Ferrari was not completely off the track and was carrying speed at some level. If putting two wheels on the rumble strips is off the track we are all in trouble. LOL. Don’t break that down further as yes his other two tires were off the track and we can agree it was a bad line. Was just making a point that he was still carrying speed and was not “completely off the track”.

Ambitious - Yes.

4 wheels outside the white line is....off track period.Check the video again:0:26 the Ferrari is all over the kerb and all 4 wheels outside the white line (not the one painted in the tarmac).Its that simple.

So I'll say it again:
A.We need to know basic rules of racing (then)
B.Actually see what happend (then)
C.Make a judgment of what caused the incident.

EDIT: @baldgye yes you can use whatever you want.

 

[kilesa4568]

Were you the guy in the Ferrari by any chance?

No, but I've been in the Ferrari's position a few times and had to put the car into the wall to avoid late lunges like that. It's either that or contact with the other driver so it's no contest. Especially if there are other people nearby who could get dragged into it.

Was just making a point that he was still carrying speed and was not “completely off the track”.

I'm glad someone watched the same video as me.👍

 

[baldgye]

No, but I've been in the Ferrari's position a few times and had to put the car into the wall to avoid late lunges like that.

Do you put your car into the wall before, or after 'late lunges' though?
I mean, if that's what the Ferrari was doing, that's some pretty perceptive driving, following by exceeding unperceptive driving immediately after...

 

[JulesDennis]

No, but I've been in the Ferrari's position a few times and had to put the car into the wall to avoid late lunges like that. It's either that or contact with the other driver so it's no contest. Especially if there are other people nearby who could get dragged into it.



I'm glad someone watched the same video as me.👍

So when you are outside of the track (since you've been in the same position),you come back on,full throtle straight into another car that is on the track and think its somehow.......their fault?

 

[cleanLX]

Aggressive, yes... too aggressive... enhh.
Now, that is coming from someone who, personally... I do not think I would not have tried that pass.
Having said that, if I were driving the Ferrari, made that mistake, and had been receiving pressure all along, I'd have been checking the mirror, seen your momentum/move and made room to carry on the race.
So, even though I would not make that move, I do anticipate and watch for others who do. Just because I would not make that move does not make it too aggressive, it's simply not my style.
That's not to say I am more clean, not at all... simply different styles.

Then again... in the heat of the moment, and on the last lap... maybe I too would have pounced... sitting back and looking on from the outside likely makes me more gentlemanly than in the heat of the moment.

 

[LaudSpiek1]

When the other car is off track,any section is a "passing zone".In this case the Ferrari should have penalized for cutting track and also for coming back in the way he did.
If you can understand this when yes,we have an agreement.



4 wheels outside the white line is....off track period.Check the video again:0:26 the Ferrari is all over the kerb and all 4 wheels outside the white line (not the one painted in the tarmac).Its that simple.

So I'll say it again:
A.We need to know basic rules of racing (then)
B.Actually see what happend (then)
C.Make a judgment of what caused the incident.

EDIT: @baldgye yes you can use whatever you want.

The question of should he have gotten a penalty or not was not the question. Was it an aggressive move or blocking. You can argue all day long on both which we seem to be doing.

You can only worry about yourself in that moment and 30 second clips suck for us to make judgement. Debate on the track or FIA rules or off carrying speed or not yadayadayada.

At the end of the day it statistically is an ambitious move in that area of the track with a high risk and minimal reward. And he lost.

 

[elderflower]

Last night I had probably the closest, highest pressure race I've had in GTS to date.

Would love to see this if you can upload it, sounds epic. Same daily last night, I managed my first pole/win/fastest lap grand slam I was in a Scirocco though

 

[Stotty]

Would love to see this if you can upload it, sounds epic. Same daily last night, I managed my first pole/win/fastest lap grand slam I was in a Scirocco though

Replay is saved. Send me a FRQ (PSN in my sig) and you can download/watch it.

 

[JulesDennis]

The question of should he have gotten a penalty or not was not the question. Was it an aggressive move or blocking. You can argue all day long on both which we seem to be doing.

You can only worry about yourself in that moment and 30 second clips suck for us to make judgement. Debate on the track or FIA rules or off carrying speed or not yadayadayada.

At the end of the day it statistically is an ambitious move in that area of the track with a high risk and minimal reward. And he lost.

The both lost because the Ferrari did something he should have not done.Thats the point.Its funny that you call "ambitious" the fact that OP stays in track and follows the racing line.Its even funnier that you dont understand that Ferrari is to blame here.Perhaps OP should have gone off track or stop racing in your opinion.
And by the way in online racing you dont worry only about yourself.You race against others,you need act considering the fact that there are others -possibly- around you (in front,in the back or in your side).
If you dont and only worry about yourself you are pretty much a moving "accident" waiting for its next
victim.
In the end of the day there is no ambitious or aggressive move here: only a guy that made a really dirty move against OP and both paid a price for that.

 

[Loopdreams]

Would love to see this if you can upload it, sounds epic. Same daily last night, I managed my first pole/win/fastest lap grand slam I was in a Scirocco though

I used a Scirocco last night, they just looked so dominant on the qualifying leaderboard. I still felt a bit dirty and ashamed, though. But slightly better when I got matched up and pretty much everyone else was using one too.

 

[zzz_pt]

You only got to his side by carrying too much speed to make the next corner. He lifted his throttle in order to make the following corner. You decided to overtake as if the next corner didn't exist.

You were on his slipstream and downhill. There's no way you would make that section full throttle while overtaking a car side by side.

 

[CConspicuous]

Polyphony should just scrap the Sportsmanship Rating, no appears to care about it.