Toyota Supra (A90)

  • Thread starter RocZX
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The thing I find most annoying about the Supra has been confirmed.

Those door vents are a HUGE component of the design of the car...I would add not one of the better components... And they are fake?? The MKIV supra had real brake cooling vents! Come on Toyota....


Given that none of the Nurburgring test mules had door vents visible, it was always going to be the case that they were going to be just a design feature. It was such a strong part of the FT-1's shape, they couldn't just write them out of the production car's script completely. They had to feature to some extent.
 
Japanese car people
This is another problem I foresee. Anybody passionate enough about sports car philosophies to label themselves a Japanese car person - like myself - knows full well that this Supra is *not* a Japanese car. It wasn't engineered by Toyota in any capacity as far as I can tell. It's even got lug bolts which are the bane of Japanese car fans' existence. We've all seen the pictures of all the BMW parts underneath, and that makes us reel because we've got 20+ years experience telling us that's a terrible idea.
 
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This is another problem I foresee. Anybody passionate enough about sports car philosophies to label themselves a Japanese car person - like myself - knows full well that this Supra is *not* a Japanese car. It wasn't engineered by Toyota in any capacity as far as I can tell. It's even got lug studs which are the bane of Japanese car fans' existence. We've all seen the pictures of all the BMW parts underneath, and that makes us reel because we've got 20+ years experience telling us that's a terrible idea.
It depends how picky you are. I'm very much a Japanese car person and I honestly don't mind. It's understandable in the modern market and Toyota could have done far worse than BMW. Like not making a new Supra at all, for a start.

And it was engineered by Toyota. The two companies went their separate ways with development once the basic platform and engine layout - which are BMW bits, obviously - had been decided upon. People are weirdly desperate to believe that it's just a BMW with a roof welded on and a new nose but prototype drives suggest there's a bit more to it than that.

I've become disinclined to believe most of the belly-aching people do on cars like this after driving most of them and discovering they're almost always great. See the Toyobaru, NSX, the last few turbocharged Civic Rs, or the GT-R that people still claim drives like a videogame ten years after first being wrong about it. I've also driven stuff like S2000s which the internet wets its pants over and found it fairly unremarkable, so I'd rather assess these things on merit.

The Supra may end up being crap, but if it is it'll probably be Toyota's fault, rather than because there are some BMW bits underneath or because it's smaller than some arbitrary measurement that defines what a Supra should be or whatever.
 
:dopey:

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It's been a few days and I'm already sick of seeing photoshops making the Mk V look like a Mk IV, and of people complaining it isn't the same goddamn car as the old one. Does no idiotic fanboy realize that the Mk III exists, and that the Mk IV is basically completely different? I can understand people complaining about it being developed by both Toyota and BMW, but the whole "it's not a Mk IV" really grinds my gears. I'm almost happy the Mk IV prices are so utterly insane basically no fanboy will ever have the chance of owning one. They'd most likely rice them up thinking that F&F early 2000s styiling is still good.

Sorry for the rant, I just had to get if off my chest. Too much Instagram for me...

Anyway, I now like the design. It has grown on me. The front bumper could be better, yes, but I think it's overall good. Basically a bridge between the 86 and the FT-1, which could actually be built as there's space for it in the lineup, similar to the Camaro and Corvette.
 
The very first one sold on Barrett Jackson, went for $2.1 million. The one sold was nice with the custom matte gray color, red mirrors and black wheels.
 
I'm hoping that Twitter description means Stand4Heros and American Heart both receive over $1 million a piece. Otherwise, it reads differently from what Barrett Jackson said.
 
And that's what the aftermarket is for. Toyota provided the base and no doubt people will go to town on it. Veilside, them LB fam, Powerhouse Amuse. So much potential.
I'll have mine lowered like the N24 car.

A manual doesn't matter with this car's today. The racing cars which are based on these road cars, mainly come with paddle shifts anyway(with the NASCAR Supra the exception). So, in true fashion, it's just like what's being used on the track.

Again, with such low volume production for Supra, I feel they'll sell well. Only thing negative about the Supra, is the brand. Being a Toyota, already jacks the price up in the used car market. Naming it "Supra", is a double whammy because, owners will expect to make their money back.
 
I do like the car. I bet it will be amazing to drive. I actually don’t care about the lack of a manual, not even the BMW collaboration aspect. Sure, it isn’t the FT-1 sized GTR/NSX competing “true supra” we wanted but the car is great. You have to realize that when looking at it from Toyota’s side and with people buying suvs nowadays, that this is the most they could do to bring a legit sports car with ample power, cause the 86 well…… yeah. Also, BMW was the reason this car even exists and that a collaboration was the only way the car would be built. They just downgraded the category of the Supra significantly, just like what they did with the MR2.

However, looking at it from the business side of things, I believe Toyota has made a mistake and that the Supra will go down the same path that the NSX did in regard to sales, and for the same reasons. It all goes down to branding and identity. Despite everything I said before, Toyota should’ve realized that bringing back a car with the Supra nameplate will be difficult to do successfully because of the appeal that it got. They also should have remembered that basically 90% of the love for the MK4 was simply for its engine and crazy mod capabilities. So, when making a successor, despite not technically having to have that main aspect to be a “true supra successor”, since the Supra was simply a grand touring sports car at first, the reactions of fans can greatly affect the success of a car, and they wanted that main aspect of what they thought of the Supra to be all about. That is the reason all the negative outcry exists.

The actual core definition of a name brand will never surpass what the consumers define it as.

NSX had the same reaction. It is a very underrated car. However, even though it is logically a correct successor according to the abbreviation (New Sports eXperimental) I’m sure the fans didn’t love it for that reason, some may not even know what NSX stood for. Not many people want to spend that much money on a hybrid supercar, especially when it is up against the 570S and R8. This category is significant especially, because most people who get their first supercar will look in the entry level, and I’m sure most would want the sound of a twin turbo V8 or NA V10 over the V6 hybrid. Nissan obviously got it right with the GTR (look at its fanbase lol). Sure, it was a V6 instead of an inline, but not only was the car quick from the start, you could modify it to a high amount of power, which was the main part that people liked about the previous Skyline GTRs.

The category is the second thing that will get Toyota. Even if they did not call it the Supra, it will still be difficult to sell because they benchmarked the car in a tough category, the likes of the Cayman and Z4. The Supra will be the only non-luxury brand in this segment, which will be bad knowing how lots of consumers care about the brand name when spending a lot of money. Some may even see the badge and power figures and think it's a 370Z competitor and then be confused at the price without knowing that it's technically a luxury sports car instead. That’s why it would’ve been better if they not only removed the Supra nameplate, but also brand it as a Lexus instead. While they’re at it, make that 4 cylinder version the new 86, it’ll fix the complaints people have with that as well, though it would be pricier.

In terms of wanting something like a “true supra” solely for having similar performance to the GTR and NSX…. don’t worry, the LC-F is coming soon.
 
However, looking at it from the business side of things, I believe Toyota has made a mistake and that the Supra will go down the same path that the NSX did in regard to sales, and for the same reasons. It all goes down to branding and identity. Despite everything I said before, Toyota should’ve realized that bringing back a car with the Supra nameplate will be difficult to do successfully because of the appeal that it got. They also should have remembered that basically 90% of the love for the MK4 was simply for its engine and crazy mod capabilities. So, when making a successor, despite not technically having to have that main aspect to be a “true supra successor”, since the Supra was simply a grand touring sports car at first, the reactions of fans can greatly affect the success of a car, and they wanted that main aspect of what they thought of the Supra to be all about. That is the reason all the negative outcry exists.
You've made me think, what if Toyota does know they can't just bring back the Supra?

Your comparaison to the NSX is spot on, but there is a difference between that and the Supra. The NSX had always had one generation, with not that much difference between the first car from 1991 to the last car from 2005. That's 15 years of the NSX being, in essence, the same car.

The Supra, on the other hand, had various generations, and a shorter life cycle between them. Of course, this ended after the Mk IV as there never was a Mk V. Now it is late to make one without it being compared to its direct predecessor, and of course generally disliked for not "living up to expectations". And while there's a possibility Toyota didn't realize it, I'd say they know. And they made the Mk V anyway.

Now the Mk V is disliked. And most people dislike it for, simply put, existing. And what if that was it's purpose? What if Toyota wanted to bring back the Supra, and decided to pretty much sacrifice its first new generation, so that the next one, the Mk VI, has a smooth road ahead of it? It's possible that by that point only the hardcore, blinded Mk IV fanboys would complain about it. Everyone else would just move on and accept that the Supra is just a name for a sports car, not the specific car that the Mk IV was. So the car would have the reception it deserves, good if it's good, bad if it's bad. No unrealistic expectations, no unnecessary hype, nothing to really kill the car before it's born.

I'm not very knowledgeable in all the things I'd need to be in order to know how realistic that is, but I certainly hope it's the case.
 
The A90 is starting to grow on me a little. It's just so bizarre looking. I wish there wasn't so much fakery going on. Part of me thinks the 4-cylinder model has potential to be pretty awesome. Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a BMW unit, and not a white-goods 600,000-mile capable Toyota 4.

Imagine a significantly cheapified version of the A90 with the 2.5 liter n/a Rav4 engine, tuned for response and up to 220hp and 200lbs*ft, 300lb diet, 6 speed manual. That would be cool. It wouldn't be a Supra though, it would be a Celica. :D
 
I saw the car in person in Detroit. It definitely looks better in person but the hood is still inexcusably bulbous. I don't know if they were trying to emulate the last gen or what but it hasn't worked. Not that the last gen was pretty anyway because it looks like an overinflated balloon.
 
Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a BMW unit, and not a white-goods 600,000-mile capable Toyota 4.

It'll be the BMW B48 (and B46 for the USA?) engines in the 4 cylinder Supra SZ and SZ-R.

Imagine a significantly cheapified version of the A90 with the 2.5 liter n/a Rav4 engine, tuned for response and up to 220hp and 200lbs*ft, 300lb diet, 6 speed manual. That would be cool. It wouldn't be a Supra though, it would be a Celica.

The SZ is 100kg lighter IIRC, no manual though... 194hp / 236lbft..
 
Alright, I think I'm ready to form a full-on opinion on the A90 Toyota Supra and well; I sort of like it. Note, I'm one of those guys that favors the A80 Supra. I loved its body lines including that wing, I don't even think the car looks bloated; not even from the back. It was a nice grand tourer in my opinion while also being fun nonsense for the tuner crowd with its Inline-6.

Anyway, back to the A90. With more understanding of why Toyota went down this road, I'm okay with it sharing platforms with the Z4 and engines. I still think it looks pretty good despite taking the FT-1 body-lines and compressing them to a smaller car. The only thing I would change would be the nose as I still think it intrudes on the design's flow. I'm glad that it still has similar power to the A80 without gaining weight. The decision of it being a sports car versus a Grand Tourer does make sense regarding sales.

Though personally, I would've preferred it being a 4-seater sports coupe like the current Mustang GT or BMW M4, but I'm still overall okay with it being this.
 
Pretty sure it was confirmed the 4 Cylinder was Japan only wasn't it?
International markets will also have access to two lower grades, SZ-R and SZ, powered by turbocharged 2.0-litre four-cylinder engines outputting 190kW/400Nm and 145kW/320Nm respectively.

As a result, 0-100km/h times drop to 5.2s in the SZ-R and 6.5s in the SZ.

Toyota Australia has not ruled out the lower-tier Supras for local market consumption, but said its focus is on launching the six-cylinder version first.
 
This new Supra has also come with some of the worst renders I've ever seen. An A80 photoshop here and an A80 bodykit there.

What's the point of ever having anything new? Why not just have the next Nintendo console be a Switch inside a Super Nintendo? Why not retire every jet in the Army and replace them with modernized F-14 Tomcats? Why not bring back the incredibly wasteful V12s to F1?

If you've already made the best version of something ever, why even attempt to make anything new? Lexus gets it!
 
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